There's been a lot of talk lately about how Tropes Needing TRS is getting too long and backed-up, as well as about how many of the tropes added might not even need TRS action at all. It was decided we should make a short-term project thread to clean out the page before we take any more drastic actions.
Some potential guidelines for what might need to be removed:
- Tropes added without enough discussion or a prior wick check (does not apply to issues such as Not Thriving)
- Entries that either misunderstand the trope or require more consensus about the trope's usage first
- Things that already have open or finished TRS threads
Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 23rd 2022 at 1:49:23 PM
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#27: Jan 12th 2022 at 1:44:46 PM
My issue with the "Mailer Daemon" one is that it spent way too much time on the technical jargon details and explained nothing about what the issue was.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
wingedcatgirl
I'm helping!
from lurking
(Holding A Herring)
Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
I'm helping!
#28: Jan 12th 2022 at 1:50:17 PM
Mailer Daemon is a pun on the computer term + "a demon (supernatural baddie) who's mailing you". It's the clarity of the other meaning that's important, and the computer term is only relevant to the extent it does or doesn't obscure that other meaning.
okay done now no more edits we promise
Edited by wingedcatgirl on Jan 12th 2022 at 3:53:44 AM
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#29: Jan 12th 2022 at 1:53:53 PM
Anyway, later I think I'll do a deep dive of the folder that concerns me the most (the misuse one).
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#30: Jan 13th 2022 at 7:12:19 AM
I neglected to mention that a lot of the entries in the "Poor title" folder were put there because people on Image Pickin were confused by the name. That includes Mailer Daemon.
Maybe some items in other folders came about from IP threads, but usually IP threads focus on the trope name.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#31: Jan 13th 2022 at 11:14:59 AM
Yeah, I've noticed that about IP. They used to make TRS threads as soon as any controversy came up, and now that TNTRS is a thing they've just started flooding that, instead. It grinds my gears a lot, personally. One person suggested adding a trope to the page just because I had a small moment of confusion over the trope name that most likely never caused any misuse because my issue was a misreading.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 13th 2022 at 2:16:40 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#32: Jan 13th 2022 at 11:45:12 AM
Looking at the list you compiled from the "Poor title" folder, these are the ones I'm positive came from IP threads:
Note that I only made this list for reference purposes, in case it's relevant for further discussion on that folder. I'm not currently commenting on whether they should or shouldn't be on the list.
Edit: Oh, right, and I forgot to mention that "came from IP threads" means they were added shortly after they received IP threads, not necessarily that a group of people thought they needed to be taken to TRS.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 13th 2022 at 1:49:11 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
costanton11
Since: Mar, 2016
#33: Jan 13th 2022 at 2:35:22 PM
The issues with Landslide Election were already worked out in this thread
, so it can probably be removed from this list.
Blapper of Water
#34: Jan 13th 2022 at 6:50:26 PM
So should this page eventually be locked and then we add tropes to the list via the locked pages thread? That really seems to be the only solution to this problem if people adding a trope at the drop of a hat.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#35: Jan 13th 2022 at 6:51:26 PM
Well, we should clean it first and see if it keeps attracting misuse.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
namra
Since: Sep, 2021
#36: Jan 14th 2022 at 9:11:22 PM
what about misplaced nationalism? i've been suggesting some form of cleanup for a while now.
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#37: Jan 17th 2022 at 12:04:50 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think that one might be okay because it has been discussed.
Big post incoming! I'm gonna analyze the "misuse" folder...
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#38: Jan 17th 2022 at 1:40:32 PM
Color key:
- Entry's just fine, needs an update at most
- Probably a valid issue, but has no wick check.
- More about the title or description, and should be in a different folder.
- Not really a TRS issue, or at least needs a stronger case.
- Other
Misuse or ZCE issues
- One Million BC: Supposed to be for a highly stereotypical depiction of prehistory which shows cavemen and dinosaurs existing together, but is sometimes used for depictions of the Stone Age that are more realistic yet still stereotypical (no dinosaurs but other inaccuracies are present), or for generally realistic works about prehistoric humans. Sounds likely, needs a check though.
- Hundred Percent Adoration Rating: It's used to refer to anyone who’s greatly loved, but it specifically refers to beloved rulers. Has a wick check that should be linked.
- Accidental Aesop: This audience reaction is about a good creator-unintended aesop that the audience interprets. However, like Hard Truth Aesop before its rename, it's frequently used for what is really Warp That Aesop (when people draw absurd conclusions to a work's themes), Alternate Aesop Interpretation (when the audience interprets another aesop from the one that's intended), or just "unintended Bad Aesop." Maybe do like Creator's Apathy (formerly They Just Didn't Care) and require Word of God to make it trivia? Another thing that sounds true but needs evidence.
- Adorable Evil Minions: Lots of ZCEs that just say the minions are adorable without actually describing what they look like. A lot of examples also feel like gushing. Definitely needs a wick check to prove these things. ZCE's and gushing are things more complicated than normal misuse, and need a more complicated check and solution.
- Airstrip One: A lot of the examples (probably because of the poor page image) are areas that just happen to have a nondescript name for whatever reason - e.g. parodies where all areas are named North City or the Forest Of Trees as a joke. The trope is supposed to be un-naming a region after conquering it, as with the Trope Namer (Nineteen Eighty-Four having the UK referred to as Airstrip One after the rise of totalitarianism). Again, sounds true but needs a wick check.
- Album Single: Made as an index page in 2012, and only has a relatively brief list. Most of the content indexed aren't even singles (only four qualify and they're also covered by Music Videos), and as a trope on musician/album pages tends to often offer no context beyond what the singles are; whatever single the album has is better served in the description than as part of a trope. Offers objective evidence to check, so this is fine.
- Alluring Anglerfish: Supposed to be about anglerfish representation in media as Fiendish Fish who use their glowing lures to hunt their prey, but many pages apply it to anything that possesses a lure to lure its prey into false sense of security, no matter whenever they even remotely resemble anglerfishes or are even fish in question, and no matter whether the lure in question is a glowing anglerfish lure. (Wick check here.) Has a wick check, keeps.
- Alternate Universe Reed Richards Is Awesome: As the opposite of Reed Richards Is Useless, this trope is supposed to be about characters who used their powers/skills to make the world a better place by solving real problems compared to their regular counterpart. However, it's frequently misconstrued as being about an Alternate Self of a character who accomplishes more things, and/or is more badass/powerful than their prime version, with no references as to how they could've used their powers to benefit society from a practical standpoint. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Always a Bigger Fish: This is about when the characters are cornered by something threatening, only to be saved when it is taken out by a bigger threat, but many examples are of animals eating each other without saving anyone in the process. That trope (if the animals are portrayed as monstrous) is Food Chain of Evil, and the misuse is probably not helped by the latter trope's misleading name (since monsters may just be portrayed as regular predators with no sense of morality). It is also misused for any situation in which a powerful character is rivaled by a more powerful one, even if nobody ends up being saved. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Americans Hate Tingle: It's supposed to be about things that are popular or well-liked domestically attracting widespread hatedom in another country, but despite having the word "hate" right there in the name, it's widely misused for things simply not catching on other countries, even if it is actually more of a country- or region-specific Cult Classic or Acclaimed Flop. Gonna need a wick check; I've not seen too much misuse personally.
- And I Must Scream: Supposed to refer to a never-ending, years-long if not eternal Fate Worse than Death, but is used to cover any situation where someone is trapped or paralysed and unable to prevent their doom, which will arrive rather shortly (by this trope's standards) in many cases. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Asian Store-Owner: The title doesn't make it clear that this is for a certain stereotype, and it receives some examples for Asian store owners who don't appear to fit the trope. This might belong better in the "bad title" folder, and "some" examples aren't enough of a case.
- Autobots, Rock Out!: As a music trope, the page is rife with ZCEs that just say the song or band, but do nothing to explain how the song comes in or what the scene is even like. Music tropes are chronically ZCE-filled because music is hard to describe, so I believe this one, but a wick check could still help.
- The Backwards Я is ostensibly about borrowing letters from Cyrillic or other alphabets to make text look more foreign. A small amount of misuse now better covered by Randomly Reversed Letters remains, but several other examples refer to in-universe confusion between Cyrillic letters and Latin letters that resemble them, which should also be another trope. Needs a wick check
- Bad Boss: Frequently gets confused for Mean Boss, causing a lot of unintentional misuse. The former is for villains who abuse and kill their minions, while Mean Boss covers mean bosses in a standard work environment. A previous TRS thread proposed a rename to something along the lines of "Killer Boss", but it lacked a wick check and got closed. I've actually wick-checked this, and the misuse was way less than I thought it would be...
- Beneath the Earth: It's supposed to be about cities or societies underneath the earth. Predictably, it gets mistaken for just about anything living underneath the earth, such as big monsters (which is not helped by the image). Has a wick check, and the wick check agrees.
- Big-Lipped Alligator Moment: Despite having three criteria that must be met in order to apply (appears out of nowhere, does not make sense in context, and has no impact on the story whatsoever), examples have a tendency to miss the "not making sense in context" part and use it to refer to events that aren't connected to the main story regardless of if they still make sense given the setting, characters, and/or narrative devices. Has a wick check and the wick check agrees.
- Black Sheep: The trope is about people who are different from other members of their family (i.e., the black sheep of the family), but it's often applied to works that differ from related works, which is covered by Oddball in the Series. Not helping matters is the fact that the similarly named Black Sheep Hit actually is about works. Simply renaming Black Sheep to "Black Sheep of the Family", the full name of the preexisting term, would clarify its meaning.Sounds true, needs a check.
- Bleached Underpants: Despite the on-page description for the trope being about a work aimed at general audiences stemming from an NSFW work, it's frequently used for when a creator of a work aimed at general audiences also created an NSFW one that has no relation to the non-NSFW one. As this ATT thread pointed out, the misuse could be spun into a separate trivia trope, provided it's not common to the point of being People Sit on Chairs. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Boring, but Practical: The trope is a mirror of Awesome, but Impractical i.e. about simple things that do their jobs at least as good as their awesome counterparts, like using a shotgun instead of a BFG; however the page describing the trope itself contains examples of things that are boring, but required (i.e. don't have an awesome counterpart), like RTS worker units. There is also an overlap with Mundane Solution, where a problem is solved by mundane means instead of something awesome and uncommon. Sounds like the issue is more with the description, and we need a wick check to see if the misuse exists elsewhere.
- Breaking the Fourth Wall: This is supposed to be about when fictional characters address the audience, but many examples just refer to characters aware that they are in a work of fiction, without referencing the audience in any way. The source of confusion/misuse is likely from TVTropes using a narrower definition than the rest of the web. Sounds true, needs a check.
- The Bus Came Back: The description states that the character has to be "explicitly written out of a story"; a lot of examples, including on the page itself, just have characters that drop off from the series with no explanation and come back later, also usually with no explanation. There was an attempt at a TRS thread, but it was declined due to the wick check having insufficient wicks. Definitely needs a wick check since the last thread had a poor one.
- Buxom Is Better: Supposed to be "large breasts are portrayed as better than smaller ones", but is misused as "character has large breasts", which is People Sit on Chairs. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Cat Smile: Another ZCE-laden appearance trope. While the description does describe some character traits, most examples are just "character makes a :3 face". Sounds true, needs a check.
- Cain and Abel: Attracts zero-context examples that just state who in a pair has what role, without explaining how. Sounds true, but IDK how we could fix that with TRS since ensemble tropes are a chronic problem child and ZCEs can't be fixed just by changing the trope.
- The Cameo: Is currently defined as real people (i.e. celebrities) making a brief appearance in a work, but is frequently used for characters making a brief appearance in a work, suggesting the need for either broadening or a split. Needs a check, I haven't seen misuse of that sort.
- Cargo Ship: Is supposed to be about fans who pretend that a character has romantic feelings for inanimate objects, but a lot of examples are about characters canonically developing feelings for an object In-Universe, which is a different concept (and may already be covered by Companion Cube). Another thing that's probably true, but might just need cleanup more than TRS.
- The Cheerleader: The description explains this is specifically about negative depictions of cheerleaders. However, due to its vague name, it's used both on and off the page as just "character is a cheerleader." Either the name needs to be changed to be specifically about mean cheerleaders, or the definition needs to be expanded to include more cheerleader stereotypes. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys: A lot of examples on the page are either aversions or inversions, which seems like there should be a "French People Are Gung Ho" trope to contrast this. As discussed, this isn't inherently problematic.
- Cheese Strategy: the trope uses a specific definition (i.e. that the strategy requires little skill to execute), but most fandoms have their own definition (which often boils down to "strategy people don't like"). The result is that the page has a lot of examples that are called cheese but don't meet the trope definition. Judging by the description, there might be too much overlap with Easy Level Trick for this to be a distinct trope. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Clueless Aesop: Suffers from misuse and subjectivity. Misuse because the trope's supposed to be when a work cannot possibly make its message work because of what the work itself is (for example, a kids' show that tries to give a Drugs Are Bad Aesop when its age rating forbids it from properly tackling that subject), but many examples are just works that fail to make their Aesop work for any reason, including just plain poor writing. It's subjective because most of the examples also explain the impact the "cluelessness" has on the work, which often involves passing judgment on its quality, and "this work couldn't possibly have made its message work" is often arguable (going by the example above, a kids' show that tries to deal with mature themes might fail, but some have successfully done so). Plus, similar to Broken Aesop (see the "Actually Subjective" folder), "This work failed to deliver its intended moral" might be subjective. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Clumsy Copyright Censorship: Specifically for copyright censorship that's poorly done, but is often used for any instance of something in a work being altered due to copyright issues. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Colony Drop: Seems to have undergone Trope Decay over the years. It originally covered the concept of space stations/colonies being deliberately crashed into a location, but it has been heavily misused to refer to impact events in general, even covering natural disasters caused by meteors or meteors being used as an attack (the latter of which is already covered under Meteor-Summoning Attack). The trope having a redirect called Meteor of Doom doesn't help matters either and only adds to the confusion. Discussion about it can be found here. Has a discussion which is good, but could use a check.
- The Danza: Supposed to be for when the character is unambiguously named after the actor, but a lot of examples are just "actor and character shares a name" even if it could be a coincidence or a Casting Gag. Would definitely need a check.
- The Dead Have Names. Judging by its description, this is redundant to War Memorial. However, the examples suggest that this is about a character remembering everybody who died in a war, meaning that it's a character action and not a list of names. This would mean that the trope name and/or the description need to be changed.
Image Pickin previously removed the image for The Dead Have Names (link to thread) because it was a better fit for War Memorial, and the current image for the latter was picked in a thread for the former, with the image on the former being pulled instead of replaced. Definitely has an issue, but needs a check.
- Developer's Foresight: Previously renamed from The Dev Team Thinks of Everything because it was being used too broadly — it's about video game developers accounting for things players have to go out of their way to find, if they find them at all, but it was frequently misused to refer to Easter eggs and attention to detail. Despite the rename, the trope continues to suffer from roughly the same kind of misuse that caused it to get renamed.Sounds true, needs a check.
- Didn't See That Coming: The trope is supposed to be that a careful plan goes to pieces because of something wholly unexpected (basically, The Chessmaster who fails at Xanatos Speed Chess), but is misused for "a character was surprised by something" or for "a plot twist surprised the audience". The source of the misuse is likely the vague trope name, meaning that this trope might need a rename. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Discredited Meme is only supposed to allow In Universe and creator-acknowledged examples, but it still gets frequent out-of-universe and non-creator acknowledged use, particularly from people complaining about memes they don't like. The fact that it's classified as YMMV is probably a factor — creator-acknowledged information generally falls under Trivia and not YMMV. A similar situation happened with Creator's Apathy, which was moved from YMMV to Trivia when Word of God acknowledgment became a requirement. One option would be to split creator-acknowledged examples into a Trivia item with Creator's Apathy-style Word of God requirements (possibly also allowing Word of Saint Paul acknowledgments) and in-universe examples into a separate In-Universe Examples Only trope, and turning Discredited Meme into a disambiguation page between the two. Definitely has an issue, but would still need a check.
- Discredited Trope: Despite its name, it often lists tropes that are still played straight, along with various other forms of misuse. It is a YMMV item, which makes it problematic as an index. As an index, it's a bit different, but probably just needs a thorough cleanup moreso than it needs TRS.
- Disgust Tropes: Meant to be tropes about characters being disgusted, but it lists tropes that are about things viewers would find disgusting (but not necessarily characters), such as Nature Tinkling and The Pig-Pen. Again, just needs cleanup or a soft-split.
- Distaff Counterpart is currently defined as a character receiving a genderbent counterpart in a spinoff work. Many of these examples coexist with their source character in the same work, and the "spinoff" requirement may be unnecessarily narrow. Additionally, the merging of this trope with Spear Counterpart leaves the title misleading, as distaff specifically means female — using the redirect messes up alphabetization. Has a wick check that confirms the issue.
- Epileptic Trees: This trope is supposed to be about fan theories that are so wild and insane that they couldn't possibly be true, despite what the fans hope for. However, the trope is mostly used in the context of being "popular and reasonable fan theories that have evidence that supports that they can come true in the future", which makes the trope feel utterly redundant to Wild Mass Guessing. Definitely a problem child I've discussed before, but would need a wick check.
- Evil Is Petty: Supposed to be a villain who commits both genuinely evil acts and Poke the Poodle acts, but is often used to refer to villains with petty motives, which is usually Disproportionate Retribution instead. I think there was a trope talk thread that agreed that motives count?
- False Reassurance: The IP thread on the topic makes clear that people have different ideas of what the trope is about. The name is misleading, in that any old false reassurance is not necessarily an example. Per the description, the trope is "deceiving people by telling the truth in a way they won't believe," which is likely redundant with Sarcastic Confession. Definitely needs an issue, but should be in the "bad title" folder.
- Flanderization: Often confused for Temporarily Exaggerated Trait (when a character is only exaggerated for one scene/episode/chapter/etc) or Character Exaggeration (where a character is exaggerated in an adaptation or a fanfic). Has a wick check that shows misuse, but I think the actual misuse is a little different than what's described here.
- Flat "What": Despite it being a dialogue trope, it's often used as a Pothole Magnet to describe the troper's own thoughts. It also has a tendency to be potholed to any instance of a character saying "What?" in response to something weird, even though it's supposed to be for someone saying "What." in a flat tone of voice as a statement of disbelief rather than a question of confusion. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Follow the Leader: Often used to describe a single work being very similar to a more successful work instead of multiple works being very similar to a more successful one. Also attracts complaining/bashing in the form of baseless claims that "Work B is just Work A but Recycled In Space/with the Serial Numbers Filed Off". Sounds true, needs a check.
- Four Is Death: The trope is specifically for significant instances of Four being overtly associated with death or ghosts in Eastern media, but gets used for any instance of the number four being associated with various and likely coincidental negative things, or former examples of what is now known as Elite Four (and in fact that trope was originally launched to deal with a lot of this trope's former misuse, though that was not enough). Some instances of misuse here. Keeps.
- Four-Man Band: Attracts ZCEs, and uses a cumbersome table format for examples. Definitely problematic, needs a check.
- Freudian Trio: Most examples are ZCE that just list what character fits which type without saying how. Pages also have incredibly weird formatting, presumably to get around the "no third bullets" rule. Again, definitely an issue, still needs a check.
- Friend to All Living Things: Often used as Animal Lover, which is a character who loves animals, but the trope is meant to be when animals love the character. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Gainax Ending: Despite being about endings that make no sense even within the context of the work, many examples are just odd Twist Endings that still make sense within the context of the work. 'Sounds true, needs a check.
- Gang Of Critters: Attracts ZCE's. In addition, it has an anemic description. Neither of these things necessarily need TRS...
- Gender-Blender Name: An IP discussion points out that the trope was often used as someone having a name common to the opposite gender. In reality, the trope was supposed to be for gender-neutral names. Sounds true, needs a check, which I think actually was done at some point?
- Gender Flip: Frequently used throughout the site used as "Rule 63 But Official", but part of the description notes the original character and their flipped adaptational counterpart need to be visually distinct in appearance if not entirely. Most examples list works that just flip the gender and change the name with changes to appearance minuscule beyond Tertiary Sexual Characteristics, and multiple examples list characters that are not the same character after a supposed flip, but rather Distaff and Spear Counterparts. Wick Check here. note Keeps]
- Generic Doomsday Villain is for villains with no clear motivations or characterization and is only defined by the threat they pose. However, it often gets misused for one-dimensional or simplistic villains or used to complain about villains people found lame or boring, even if said villains have clear motivations or characterization. Already has a thread.
- Genre-Busting: The striking majority of examples are works made of several different but easily distinguishable genres, which would put them under Genre Mashup instead. There are also a few ZCEs littering the page, of the "extremely vague" type. Previous discussions here and here.
The TRS thread for Neoclassical Punk Zydeco Rockabilly decided to migrate its examples to either Genre Mashup or Genre-Busting, but it clocked out during the cleanup phase. Cleanup should be finished up, and a wick check needs to be done too... - Good People Have Good Sex: It is supposed to be about how good characters have good sex compared to the bad guys having bad sex, but often only talks about the good characters without comparing them to how the work portrays villains, or sometimes even skip the "good people" part and talk about characters who have good sex regardless of their morality. Wick check here. Keeps.
- He-Man Woman Hater: The title suggests this to be about an extremely macho male who hates women, as a counterpart to the Effeminate Misogynistic Guy, but many examples and even the description just reference misogyny in general, which may not be a trope at all. This is more about the title and should be in the title section, if it's a problem at all.
- Humans Are Good: The page is misused for everyone (or most people) being inherently somewhat good (including the old page image and laconic), which is People Sit on Chairs. The trope only applies for settings with multiple races, in which humans are the "good" race. Might need a better name, since similarly-named tropes (like Humans Are Bastards) do apply to everyone/most people in a work.Sounds true, needs a check.
- Humor Dissonance: The item is intended for in-universe jokes that the characters find funny but the audience doesn't, but it's often used for writers deliberately setting up an unfunny joke that the characters (or certain characters) find funny, or when a character tells jokes that other characters find unfunny, both of which are objective. A good chunk of examples are on Recap pages, and even the YMMV wicks have several in-universe instances listed rather than audience reactions. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Iconic Logo: Many examples on the page are ZCE, partially because it's difficult to determine what makes a logo "iconic." Not only is it a subjective matter, but some icons may not be recognized worldwide. Sounds true, needs a check beyond the page.
- I Knew It!: On this wiki, this Trivia item has a specific meaning: a fan theory or fan speculation being proven correct. However, the phrase has a broader meaning outside of this wiki. As a result, it gets misused for In-Universe examples where someone reacts to being correct about something under any circumstance or someone literally saying the phrase "I knew it" or any variation of it. I Knew It! has also been linked to whenever the words would come up, which is one reason No New Stock Phrases was implemented. A similar issue with "Too Soon" (which was frequently confused with Dude, Not Funny!, due to that phrase's usual meaning) caused it to be renamed to Distanced from Current Events.\\
- Impossibly Cool Clothes: As brought up in this Image Pickin' thread, many outfits listed are not actually impossibly cool. Sounds true, needs a check, and might be better for the title section.
- Incorruptible Pure Pureness: Supposed to be used for when a character is so pure-hearted that they can't be corrupted but is often used for any good character who can't be corrupted, whether or not they're pure-hearted. Might be missing a supertrope for "good can't be corrupted" in general. This one is difficult- how do you distinguish "good" and "pure hearted"?
- It's a Small World, After All: The description makes it clear that this is about works with space travel treating entire planets as equivalents to small towns, but the examples even just on the page are full of misuse for the commonly-known "people with preexisting connections meet up again by coincidence" meaning of the phrase. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Killed Off for Real is supposed to be limited to settings where resurrection is normal, and then it represents a death that does not come back for whatever reason. Of course, since the name Killed Off for Real means something else entirely, this trope gets mistaken for other death tropes, basically any situation where a character dies (which is Character Death, a No On-Page Examples trope). Being defined in the negative also makes examples difficult to explain or verify. Extremely misused, but IDK if the title actually has anything to do with it and should just be given a normal cleanup.
- Lady Mondegreen: Supposed to be an Audience Reaction where a non-character phrase is misheard/read as a character (such as "laid him on the green" as "Lady Mondegreen" or "gladly the cross I'd bear" as "Gladly the Cross-Eyed Bear"), but instead is used for misheard lines in general, and it also has a lot of in-universe examples. Note that the supertrope Mondegreen has been in-universe examples only instead of YMMV for a while. Now that Mondegreen is being disambiged, this will be getting an influx of examples, and we'd need a wick check.
- Late-Arrival Spoiler: The trope is for when a spoiler for a serial work appears front-and-cover in advertising or other official sources, but it's often confused for It Was His Sled or instances of sequels having story aspects that would spoil the original work for late arrivals, as in people who watch the sequel first. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Lip Lock: The trope is about dialogue being changed in the dub to match the lip movement of the original version, but it's often used for cases where the characters' lips movements don't synchronize with their dialogue. It's also used for complaining. Sounds true, needs a check, which it may already have?
- The Lost Woods is about enchanted forests. It isn't named "enchanted forest" because it is named after a forest in The Legend of Zelda series. But as a result, it gets misused for "any forest-themed video game level". Tropes that are strictly about video game levels (such as Jungle Japes) refer to The Lost Woods as another video game trope, but it's not (and according to The Lost Woods, non-enchanted video game forests fall under Green Hill Zone). Sounds true, needs a check.
- Memetic Badass: Supposed to be about an average-at-best or downright incompetent character doing something that causes fans to exaggerate them as ridiculously overpowered, to the point of becoming a meme. However, quite a few entries are about characters who become memetic because they are legitimately powerful and/or did something badass in-universe. The trope also attracts a significantly large amount of gushing from people trying to emphasize why the character is awesome, often with ZCEs.Sounds true, needs a check.
- Memetic Mutation: Oftentimes, this attracts popular quotes with no explanation as to how they're memes. Definitely a thing, I think Berrenta was the one making a check for it...
- Me's a Crowd: The trope is about making clones in order to do tasks, but due to the vague name, several examples simply list instances of clones without specifying if they were made for a purpose. There may be confusion with Self-Duplication for this reason. Sounds true, needs a check, probably belongs in the name folder.
- Mind Screw: Is supposed to be for works that are deliberately confusing due to extensive Rule of Symbolism and unexplained elements, but is used for any work that is confusing, or just confusing things in general. It is a Pothole Magnet. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Murderers Are Rapists: The page is medium-specific in a way that isn't a requirement, off-page wicks attract ZCE, and the name is very similar to our "All X are Y" tropes. Listed on Definition-Only Pages due to Fast Eddie removing examples around a decade ago. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Narm's intended meaning is "dramatic moment ruined by factors that prevent it from being taken seriously", but it frequently gets misapplied anywhere as "unintentional Funny Moment", regardless of whether the moment in question was dramatic or not. Already has a pretty active cleanup thread and IDK what TRS could do for it.
- Needs A Better Description: Not the page itself, but it attracts the same problems that led to Needs Wiki Magic Love being salted and moved to Pages Needing Wiki Magic, namely users tacking it on descriptions and expecting others to make the improvements. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Nintendo Hard is persistently shoehorned and lacks a clear cutoff; it sometimes attracts complaining as well. It is likely also YMMV due to involving difficulty. Has been discussed a lot, but would need a check.
- No Straight Examples, Please!: Features some questionable entries, such as pages that should go on Definition-Only Pages or No On-Page Examples instead, as well as at least one entry that says that no examples are forbidden. At least one mod previously suggested waiting for the Definition-Only Pages TRS thread to conclude before starting one for No Straight Examples, Please!; the thread in question has since concluded. I don't know if another batch TRS thread will be acceptable... Why not just do the individual bad ones separately?
- No-Respect Guy: This trope is supposed to be about how The Chew Toys are considered Only Sane Men, but, due to the name, it gets misused as "any character who gets zero respect from others", which is the definition of Butt-Monkey, The Friend Nobody Likes, or Hated by All. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Not the Intended Use: Desperately needs a description re-haul, as the description is exclusively about videogames and tabletop games while the trope is widely used for... well, things that were not used in the intended way, in any media. More of a description issue than a TRS one...
- Ooh, Me Accent's Slipping: The trope is for when actors make a slip when portraying a character with an accent foreign to their own, but a lot of examples are in-universe cases of a character doing this while faking an accent for different reasons (and there is an entire section for it on the trope page). I don't think in-universe examples are inherently bad, but they could just be split off without TRS anyhow.
- Panty Shot: A lot of the examples aren't clear that it's played for fanservice, and there might be lewdness issues. Notably, some list examples from kids.Sounds true, needs a check.
- Porn Stache: A lot of examples are just about the mustache without any indication of the stereotype it represents.Sounds true, needs a check.
- Prickly Porcupine: While the description clarifies that porcupines (or any spiny mammal) are depicted in a stereotypical manner, it has examples of "porcupines in fiction." There's a notice added, but this trope could use a cleanup. Then do cleanup, we don't need TRS for that.
- Pronoun Trouble: Despite the trope being clear-cut and objective, multiple examples talk about fans having trouble figuring out what pronouns to use for a character. If we don't already have a YMMV trope for this, it's good splitting fodder.Sounds true, needs a check.
- Rock Star Song: Attracts a lot of zero-context examples, both on and off-page, many of which just state the name of the song. Sounds true, needs a check. Again, music trope.
- Rouge Angles of Satin: This trope is supposed to be about a specific kind of spelling error in which the spelling of the word is correct, but the word itself is wrong. However, it’s frequently used to describe any sort of grammatical error, no matter if the typo is a correctly-spelled word or not. Sounds true, needs a check.
- The Scream: The trope is about how an exaggerated scream is used for (usually) comedic effect. However, most examples detail just about any situation in which a character yells, no matter how mundane it is. The trope is also incorrectly used to reference Edvard Munch's eponymous painting. Sounds true, needs a check... and isn't this already in the title folder?
- Seers: Acts like it's about Precognition (which is one of its redirects), but the name makes it sound like Our Seers Are Different, which is all about the name of a job. Should be in the bad title folder, if this is even correct. I've never seen it used for that.
- Self-Imposed Challenge: Supposed to be a subjective trope about video gamers playing under restrictions that they create themselves, but a lot of examples are In-Universe cases of people doing voluntary challenges outside of video games, which is an objective trope. TRS was the one that made it YMMV pretty recently, and the In-Universe cases were discussed IIRC.
- Set Swords to "Stun": The description very clearly refers to video game mechanics, but the examples are about non-lethal lethal weapons in all media and contexts. 'Sounds true, needs a check.
- Seven Deadly Sins: Some examples assign sins to characters when the narrative does not intend said characters to represent the sins. This sometimes leads to shoehorning as tropers will try to fit all the sins to a group of characters, even if this means twisting what those sins actually represent. This may need to be limited by only including examples that acknowledge the sins in-universe, while "assigning sins to characters" could go elsewhere like a Just For Fun page. Has a wick check under way, but doesn't have a ton of issues yet.
- Skull for a Head: Most examples are just ZCEs amounting to "character has skull head" with no actual explanation. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Sliding Scale of Villain Threat: Non-standard page design that, in lieu of the standard Example folders, dumps character names under sub-bullets of the list entries. As a result, nearly every on-page example is a ZCE. On-page examples aren't always TRS worthy, and this is a sliding scale, not a trope page.
- Sound-Effect Bleep: Originally intended for when an in-universe sound effect covers up dialogue so that the audience can’t hear it, it has become frequently used to refer to regular censor bleeps. Even the trope definition has a bit of a split personality. Sounds true, needs a check, but if the definition allows this, then...?
- Strawman Has a Point: It's supposed to be "a Straw Character makes a better argument than the author intended", but most of the examples are more suited for Informed Wrongness because they don't really feature a true Straw Character (or even someone holding the Strawman Ball), and/or because they defend the character's actions/beliefs regardless of what arguments were actually made in the work. The video has both of these issues — Oscar and Lenny aren't straw characters, and they don't even try to make an argument. Sounds true, needs a check but is probably more of a cleanup thread issue.
- Stock Parody Jokes: There should be some criteria for what constitutes a "parody joke," as many of these appear to be stock fandom jokes (which belongs in Memetic Mutation) or just straight-up complaints disguised as "jokes." Examples also tend to lack context, simply naming the joke without any other context as to how and why it's used in parodies, which makes cleanup quite difficult. On a less important note, there's also an issue with redundancy — any show with a bald character attracts cancer jokes, any show with anthro animals attracts furry jokes, etc. Discussion has come up frequently at the [[cleanup thread. Definitely has an issue, could use a wick check.
- Suspiciously Similar Song: Using text to explain how two songs are similar is a skill apparently not possessed by most tropers, leading to massive violation of Weblinks Are Not Examples. A lot of times it is also used for deliberately similar songs, which goes under Musical Pastiche.Sounds true, needs a check.
- Tastes Like Diabetes: The definition is about works that are poorly received due to being excessively saccharine, which either distracts from the rest of the show or reveals that it has nothing actually going for it other than being cute. It's often used for anything that's cute, with many examples treating it as a positive or neutral thing despite being intended as a negative reaction (positive usage would probably fit better on Sweet Dreams Fuel). There are also lots of In-Universe examples about a Show Within a Show. Wick check here) Keeps
- Tainted by the Preview: Supposed to be when a fanbase is turned off from an anticipated work because of a trailer, but is used for any work that doesn't impress from the offset, regardless of any fan backing or not. It's also misused for when the fandom doesn't like any information about an upcoming work. Might need to either be broadened or have its name changed, since the current one makes this reaction seem broader than it actually is. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Teens Are Short: The trope is about works in which teenage characters are consistently depicted as being shorter than adults despite this not always being the case in real life. It's a visual shorthand to group characters by age. Instead, it's often misused to state that a teenager character is incidentally short, or to compare the shortest teenager to other characters who aren't short (the definition of 'short' mostly depends on the troper). (Wick Check here) Keeps
- Title Confusion: About audiences confused over the meaning of the title, which also means that it should be reclassified as a YMMV item. Instead, it is misused for confusion as to what the title is. Sounds true, needs a check, might be better for the title folder (ironically).
- Title, Please!: Seems to attract zero-context examples, and since all aversions are covered by Episode Title Card, it's questionable whether we need both tropes. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Too Dumb to Live: Still constantly misused by tropers failing to realize that the trope title is supposed to be literal, using it in places where other Stupidity Tropes such as The Ditz or Idiot Ball would be more accurate, rather than a character's stupidity putting them in mortal danger. More of a cleanup thread issue; not sure what more could be changed here.
- Unobtainium. It's right in the name: an important part of this trope is that we can't obtain this material. That's rarer than you'd think in fiction, and indeed it's getting misused for any material that's rare and valuable. Given that "unobtainable" materials end up being eventually "obtained" in most fiction, it's not clear that this is a sufficiently distinct trope from Applied Phlebotinum and its family. Sounds true, needs a check.* Uncanny Valley: This specifically refers to an unsettling grey area between realism and stylization. However, it is often misused to refer to any animation that looks creepy or unsettling, even if it's not due to looking too realistic. Definitely needs a wick check, but also definitely misuse I've seen pop up a lot. Needs a cleanup if nothing else.
- The Un-Favourite: Refers to children whose parents neglect them as a result of Parental Favoritism directed toward their sibling(s), but it's sometimes applied to characters who are ignored or neglected in other ways. Sounds true, needs a check.
- The Un-Reveal: Is supposed to be "The Reveal, Subverted" but instead is often used for examples where something is unknown yet no reveal is set up for the audience at all. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Unstoppable Force Meets Immovable Object: "A Stock Phrase for describing any conflict between particularly strong or particularly stubborn individuals". The article is explicitly about the phrase itself but it is frequently used to describe conflicts directly without anyone making the comparison in-universe. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Violation of Common Sense: This is a video game trope wherein the game gives you the option to do something plainly foolish, then rewards you for doing it. Many of the examples, even on the page, are just "this works in a way I personally think is nonsensical." Many other examples are just dumb things the game lets you do. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Walking Swimsuit Scene: Walking Shirtless Scene was brought to Trope Talk (link to thread) because it's often confused with Shirtless Scene, and it was pointed out that Walking Swimsuit Scene has roughly the same problem. Needs a check, and probably belongs in the title folder.
- What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Attracts ZCEs and weblink only examples like the plague. A lack of firm standards over what qualifies and how said examples should be described to make it clear that people think drugs are involved is probably not helping Sounds true, needs a check.
- What Happened to the Mouse?: Is supposed to be specifically for minor characters or plot points that disappear without explanation, but it sees use for all types. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Why We Can't Have Nice Things: The description and examples can't seem to decide whether the trope is "misbehavior that has collective negative consequences for a group" or "valuable object gets destroyed". Sounds true, needs a check.
- Widget Series: Supposed to be about works that come across as unusual because of cultural differences, but a lot of examples don't explain the latter part. May need a rename. Wasn't it just renamed a little while ago? I think the cleanup was never done.
- Wild Magic: On This Very Wiki, "Wild Magic" refers to magic being "alive" (that is, magic that isn't easily controlled). However, in most other places, the term "Wild Magic" refers to magic that produces random effects (which we have under "Entropy and Chaos Magic"). Predictably, this leads to a lot of examples that use the more "common" definition than the one used on the site. Sounds true, needs a check.
- Woolseyism: The definition deals with changes made to a translation done specifically for pragmatic reasons that end up well-received. Examples frequently treat it as if it was straight-up Superlative Dubbing. Occasionally, it's misused to complain about translations being worse than the original, despite the proper definition having to do with good translations. Sounds true, needs a check.
- X Meets Y: Used as a Pothole Magnet, usually for Crossovers, despite already being a Just for Fun page about works combining the main elements of two other works. The main page is also loaded with ZCEs and Fan Myopia. Definitely a problem page, and IDK if a wick check would be useful here.
Aghahghwgfgh 1 that took so long! But to make it easier to read I might go back through and color the comments... ugh... Edit: I added colors
Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 17th 2022 at 5:06:32 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
mightymewtron
Angry babby
from New New York
Since: Oct, 2012
Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#39: Jan 17th 2022 at 3:41:14 PM
Actually, I think Cargo Ship needs a wick check because the objective variant might be more common than the YMMV concept, so it might need to be moved to Main or even split into Main and YMMV items.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#40: Jan 17th 2022 at 3:44:50 PM
The reason I said I just felt it needed cleanup was because the entry itself only made it sound like "there's some bad examples", but the title doesn't seem suspect and it's YMMV, so I'm not entirely sure what the TRS would change about the trope. If the issue is the in-universe examples, that still doesn't need TRS- it's either something we can split via TLP (since Cargo Ship wouldn't change as a trope) or just need to clean up, since Companion Cube already exists. (I've also never seen one of the examples referred to here, so...)
Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 17th 2022 at 6:47:15 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
mightymewtron
Angry babby
from New New York
Since: Oct, 2012
Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#41: Jan 17th 2022 at 3:49:08 PM
I was thinking that it might be easier to move Cargo Ship to be objective cuz IDK how common the actual definition is after removing all the canon examples, but we could always wick check and find out.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#42: Jan 17th 2022 at 4:32:45 PM
Maybe it's just the fandoms I'm in, but I've definitely seen the actual definition happen more than the misuse. But like you said, it could at least use a check.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Tabs
Since: Jan, 2001
#43: Jan 18th 2022 at 7:39:53 AM
We don't have a trope for someone romancing an object, so I can see Cargo Ship collecting a lot of "in-universe"/misuse.
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#44: Jan 18th 2022 at 11:21:36 AM
I think part of the issue is that a proper in-universe version would be the characters shipping someone with an object, not falling in-love with an object.
Personally I think Companion Cube should be flexible enough for it, but...
Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 18th 2022 at 2:22:41 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Tabs
Since: Jan, 2001
#45: Jan 18th 2022 at 11:28:21 AM
Hence the quotation marks 
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#46: Jan 18th 2022 at 11:29:32 AM
I didn't notice those at first ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
I want to enact my cleanup but I don't want to make massive cuts without proper discussion into the rest of it. Should the things in blue be kept without their wick checks? Should I comment them out and add tags?
Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 18th 2022 at 2:30:23 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Tabs
Since: Jan, 2001
#47: Jan 18th 2022 at 11:35:14 AM
Oh yeah. I'm OK with all the blue-texted items remaining.
I said I'd do a Mailer Daemon wick check because I suspected the preexisting phrase is a title looking for a trope. Wick check. I was wrong about it belonging under "Poor title". It should be "Misuse" or even "Not thriving".
7/54 wicks are used correctly (13%). Of those 7, there are two works that correctly provide straight examples and one that I'm counting under Tropes Are Flexible (written correspondence instead of online).
18 of the wicks are for Teen Titans (2003), 5 for Buffy the Vampire Slayer, 5 for Cyborg 009, 4 for Harry Potter. All misuse. Notice the Laconic and the redirect are in the misuse folder.
Oh yeah. I'm OK with all the blue-texted items remaining.
Edited by Tabs on Jan 18th 2022 at 11:36:08 AM
(she/her)
#48: Jan 18th 2022 at 11:36:16 AM
I think the entries that don’t have any wick checks should be tagged and commented out or left alone and tagged.
Macron's notes
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#49: Jan 18th 2022 at 11:39:15 AM
I think I'll leave them alone and tag them. It won't be obvious to anyone who's just browsing the page, though, but at least I can get the attention of someone going on to add something? (Plus it's just less comment markup over all...)
I'll remove the other ones and maybe add them to the discussion page if they aren't just moved to a different folder? If someone wants to argue to re-add something they can.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Tabs
Since: Jan, 2001
#50: Jan 18th 2022 at 11:40:11 AM
Split within the folder maybe. Has existing wick check and/or forum/ATT discussion and does not have evidence other than the-one-who-added-it's hunch.
Total posts: 700
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minced_oath
Have just received a bounced email from a mailer daemon, so what a coincidence... I'm really not fond of the article name. Barely has any connection to the trope, looks like a title looking for an article. I'm willing to do a wick check for it.