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Jul 9th 2018 at 10:22:23 AM •••

I think Faust from Fairy Tail should be removed, because despite all the cruelty he displayed, in the end after being beaten by the Dragon Slayers, he showed a kinder side to him and appeared to have remorse for his actions.

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Oct 22nd 2019 at 7:12:32 AM •••

I read the entries and the talk was about Manga!Faust, who LACKS the sympathetic moment of the anime. (In the manga he isn't seen after his humiliation by Natsu.)

Mar 1st 2020 at 7:04:38 PM •••

The character is truly heinous by the standards of the story, which makes no attempt to present the character in any positive way.

- Has attempted genocide and abuse of his people to his name. That's quite high for this work.

- Apparently, some view him as reasonable (his followers), but others abandon his ideal.

The character's terribleness is played seriously at all times, evoking fear, revulsion and hatred from the other characters in the story.

- Pass.

They are completely devoid of altruistic qualities. They show no regret for their crimes.

- Seemed to care for his kingdom, but at the end only wants power. Regret moments happen only in the anime.

On the fence, maybe. But I'd say he was judged already.

Mar 15th 2017 at 3:30:05 PM •••

I am thinking of adding Jiemma from Fairy Tail as a Complete Monster.He in the series is nothing more but abusive towards his guild and even to his daughter. He even joined Tartarus, a guild of demons, just to get stronger and was planning to usurp Mard Geer, showing his ungratefulness.

Edited by LISBOAH Hide/Show Replies
Oct 22nd 2019 at 7:20:06 AM •••

I made the proposal, but if he gets downvoted, DON'T bring him up again.

EDIT: Downvoted.

Edited by Fan727
Nov 21st 2019 at 12:23:15 AM •••

Near-example. But he doesn't do anything to warrant being listed as such. Especially by Fairy Tail standards, where you have attempted and succeeded mass-murderers.

Had he wiped out a town out of his rage from being thrown out, then he'd make the cut.

Mar 1st 2020 at 6:51:18 PM •••

  • The character is truly heinous by the standards of the story, which makes no attempt to present the character in any positive way.

- What does he do? Abuses some of his people, which several other characters did much worse.

- He's not seen in a positive way.

  • The character's terribleness is played seriously at all times, evoking fear, revulsion and hatred from the other characters in the story.

- Pass.

They are completely devoid of altruistic qualities. They show no regret for their crimes.

- Pass.

Almost, but not quite.

Feb 19th 2017 at 7:30:19 AM •••

Why isn't Ghetsis on here? He basically cared about nothing except himself including his own son and used him as basically a puppet, manipulated him into doing something he didn't like, his actions were 100% taken seriously and he never had any tragedy unlike Lusamine and then he has the breakdown later after his Sanity Slippage in Pokemon Black and White 2 where he tries to kill you and his son without any regards at all and freezes Unova.

That's pretty vile of a villain. EDIT: You can move this conversation to the Video Game index of this trope or delete this. I want mention of this as he is pretty vile but it's not in the right section.

Edited by ReynTime250 Hide/Show Replies
Feb 19th 2017 at 7:31:20 AM •••

Oops I meant to put this on the one for Video Games. I messed up.

Nov 21st 2019 at 12:20:50 AM •••

1. He isn't as bad as Cyrus or Lysandre, who serve as the series' bar-setters of the universe when it comes to Big Bad evil.

2. His worst actions are subjects to viewer speculation, rather than fully stated in universe. (And this is also the reason the manga version made the cut, due to his actions really standing out there by being referenced in which he has actual attempted mass murders to his name and being stated as such in-universe.)

Mar 1st 2020 at 6:53:58 PM •••

The character is truly heinous by the standards of the story, which makes no attempt to present the character in any positive way.

- Nope. Out-classed by Cyrus and Lysandre.

- Yes, unless you count his relationship with the Shadow Triad.

The character's terribleness is played seriously at all times, evoking fear, revulsion and hatred from the other characters in the story.

- Pass.

They are completely devoid of altruistic qualities. They show no regret for their crimes.

- Pass.

Aug 9th 2015 at 5:48:06 PM •••

I'm planning on adding a Complete Monster page for Sword Art Online, since it has 3 examples (a separate Complete Monster page needs to have at least 3).

  • Fairy Dance: Suguo Nobuyuki (Oberon the Fairy King) is the director of research and development at RECTO Progress Incorporated, and the one-time fiance of female lead, Asuna Yuuki. He was also completely obsessed with research into the manipulation of human emotion. Following the clearing of Sword Art Online, Suguo trapped three hundred of the surviving players in his own game, Alfheim Online, where he ran experiments on their minds, testing their fear and pain responses. Kidnapping Asuna in the game, he keeps her trapped in a gilded cage at the top of Alfheim's World Tree, while plotting to wed the comatose girl in the real world. When Kirito reaches the top of the World Tree, Suguo uses his administrator abilities to paralyze him, tortures him, and then sexually assaults Asuna in front of him, gloating the entire time about how, once he's freed, he will rape her again in real life. When the plan fails, he attempts to kill Kirito in the real world, attacking him with a knife. In the context of the story, Suguo is as bad as SAO's villains get.
  • Phantom Bullet:
    • Red Eyed XaXa (real name: Shoichi Shinkawa) is one of the top members of the Laughing Coffin Guild in SAO, and the Guild's Master Swordsman. During the Murder Investigation Arc in SAO, XaXa, alongside PoH and Johnny Black, ambushed and attempted to murder players Caynz, Yolko, and Schmitt; when Kirito intervened, the trio also tried to kill him. After making his way back to the real world, XaXa, bored, and seeking a way to kill again, took advantage of his younger brother Kyoji's fragile mental state, to convince Kyoji to create the online persona of Sterben/Death Gun in Gun Gale Online, ultimately hijacking Kyoji's desire to be "the strongest" for his own ends. Using Kyoji, and his old partner Johnny Black as aides, the psychotic XaXa was able to arrange the murders of players Zekushiido, Usujio Tarako, Pale Rider, and Garret, before sending Kyoji to murder his own crush, Shino Asada. A sadist at heart, XaXa makes a point of crippling his opponents' avatars with a paralyzing toxin before delivering the coup de grace, and during his Sword Fight with Kirito in GGO does his best to cut him to ribbons, mocking him the entire time.
    • Johnny Black (real name: Atsushi Kanemoto) is another top member of the Laughing Coffin Guild. As the Guild's Master Poisoner, Johnny came up with a way to paralyze opponents so that they could then be tortured to death, and puts this poison into effect during his, XaXa, and PoH's attack on the members of the Golden Apple Guild. When discussing what they will do with the captured trio, Johnny expresses a desire to make them fight each other to the death, promising to release the survivor; when PoH notes that Johnny will just kill the survivor, Johnny complains about how the Guild Leader has ruined the surprise. He subsequently tries to poison Kirito when he comes to the Golden Apple trio's rescue. Escaping into the real world, Johnny was recruited by XaXa during the Death Gun murders, poisoning Pale Rider and Garret in their homes, before again making a getaway. He was finally arrested when, after having lain in wait for six months, he attacked Kirito and Asuna on the street, intending to inject them with poison from a syringe, and hospitalizing Kirito. Unable to quit killing in the virtual world or the real world, Johnny is the work's definitive Psycho for Hire.

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Aug 10th 2015 at 2:09:02 AM •••

That is too little to justify a page nowadays.

Aug 10th 2015 at 1:40:44 PM •••

how many does it need to justify a page

Willbyr MOD
Aug 11th 2014 at 10:55:01 AM •••

These are temporarily moved here.

  • Mazinger Z:
    • Dr. Hell's Backstory features being mishandled by his parents during the childhood riddled with misfortune, discrimination and humiliation, which formed him into the relentlessly unforgiving, dastardly man with a tendency to dispatch romantic rivals. He wishes to purge the world of idiots and force the survivors to bow down to him. When older, Dr. Hell designed Doomsday Devices for Hitler and made human experiments with inmates in Auschwitz. Several years after the end of WWII, he led an archaeological research expedition to the Greek Island of Bardos, where he found an army of Humongous Mecha. Right away, he murdered the whole expedition minus Dr. Kabuto. Later, he got himself an army of Mooks by mechanizing the brains of corpses and turning them into expendable Cyborgs programmed to serve him faithfully and unquestionably. He constantly designs Weapons Of Mass Destruction his second-in-commands use to obliterate whole cities.
    • For Baron Ashura, "good" and "evil" are meaningless words made up by human beings. He/she is perfectly capable of hitting children (once also having blown apart the wheelchair of a disabled girl to prevent her from escaping), murdering little dog cubs or committing worse atrocities if he thinks it will further his/her goals, like machine gun several survivors of a shipwreck as he/she gloats they will be revived like cyborgs and turned into his/her slaves or like slaying a hostage or pawn after he or she has outlived his or her usefulness. He/she is easily Hell's most brutal henchmen, usually the most loyal, and would do anything to turn Hell's dreams into reality. Under his/her command, his/her Mechanical Beasts set whole cities on fire, bombard them with missiles into smoking ruins, cause earthquakes to bring them down, cut ships in halves, murdering the whole passage, shoot or blast whole planes down, blow up trains and buses and thus kill thousands of people.
    • Before Hell met him and saved his life, Count Brocken was a Nazi officer who was considered particularly blood-thirsty by his own partners. He also is the first of Hell's henchmen to kill someone on panel on the manga even before Ashura, and he is capable of joking as he cuts heads off.
    • In one of the alternate realities from Shin Mazinger Zero, Dr. Kabuto himself. He murdered his son Kenzo, tried to murder his grandson Kouji, and raped and murdered Sayaka in front of an impotent Kouji.
    • Marquis Janus is a witch more than willing to befriend people under disguise before poisoning them. Another of her acts in the Gosaku Ota manga episodes is slicing Misato in half to pay Tetsuya back for defeating her in a fair fight.
    • Great Marshall of Darkness is downright cruel, especially in the Ota episodes: His first strategy was blowing up one city and then warning he would do the same thing in Tokyo unless the Japanese Government destroyed the Fortress of Science and Great Mazinger. The Government caves in - and Great Marshall razes Tokyo to rubble anyways. Another of his plans involves creating a Kill Sat to blow up from the space any target he feels like annihilating. You can say Dr. Hell became an even greater bastard after dying and being brought back to life as a servant of Mykene Emperor.
    • King Vega's idea of what to do when your homeworld is becoming unstable and on the verge of destruction is to begin conquering and colonizing another worlds. Original inhabitants of a planet are usually exterminated, although in some instances they are "only" enslaved. To put his mindset in perspective, when his own daughter Rubina asked him why he isn't willing to make peace with the people of Earth, he couldn't come up with an answer.
    • Barados deliberately targets women and children in order to exterminate the Fleed's population, which is without mentioning the "let's drop several hundred of children from three thousand meters from height" -incident.

Feb 3rd 2014 at 2:04:42 AM •••

All proposals or requests for removals should go to the Complete Monster Cleanup thread set up for that very purpose. Requests to add characters on the discussion page will get ignored.

Aug 8th 2013 at 9:16:27 AM •••

High School of the Dead is listed twice. I also think V.V from Code Geas would qualify since he tried to weaponize super powered children and if even a tenth of them were as messed up as Rolo he'd still be a complete monster. He's even killed by his own brother because he has no redeeming qualities.

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Oct 10th 2013 at 2:39:17 PM •••

V.V. was cut for insufficient heinousness. If you want to make a case, come to the clean up thread and make one.

Feb 2nd 2013 at 11:26:56 PM •••

The titular character of MD Geist is suggested as being one on his OAV's YMMV page. Given he's a Blood Knight who enjoys tearing people apart with his bare hands, was actually put into stasis by his own creators because he enjoys killing so much that he scared them, and he ends the first OAV by starting a Robot War of apocalyptic proportions just to ensure endless battles for him to fight, indifferently wiping out all life on the planet to do so, it's believable he's one of these, isn't it?

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Nov 17th 2012 at 3:06:49 PM •••

Why are there so many subpages. I tried to get ride of them and add them to the main article, but most of them were placed back and the article was locked.

Edited by randomtroper89 Hide/Show Replies
lu127 MOD
Nov 17th 2012 at 3:15:26 PM •••

Because the page is way too long and if it were to get any bigger, it would have to be split into more subpages anyway.

Nov 20th 2012 at 12:57:38 PM •••

I think that Bokurano, Fairy Tail, Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure, Rurouni Kenshin, School Days and Tenjho Tenge should all be cut. It will not add that much length to the page. Not so mention that some series have far more examples then the ones above, and yet don't have subpages like Bakugan, Hell Girl and Devilman. It might also be possible to move the Battle Royale examples to the Literature section since the book came first.

Edited by randomtroper89
Jul 6th 2013 at 7:02:59 PM •••

Anything that has three examples can keep a it's own subpage. We're trying to keep the page length down because otherwise it'll get too long to work right.

Apr 6th 2012 at 1:46:07 PM •••

I can't tell who the current picture is. Where'd Johan go?

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Apr 6th 2012 at 2:48:25 PM •••

Well this picture is awful. I can barely see anything, and if I hadn't read the manga I'd never guess he's threatening a baby.

Edited by Nithael
Apr 9th 2012 at 2:39:39 PM •••

Yeah, the picture's pretty bad. Considering that I am just not interested in Naruto, I have no idea who that character is or what he's doing. It's also way too small; Johan's picture was larger and much more clear as to what was going on.

Jun 4th 2011 at 9:17:31 PM •••

He's the only one who's not Luciano Bradley that could be a serious contender.

Apr 26th 2013 at 1:38:47 PM •••

Actually, yes. Any motives or he had were forfeit following his murder of Marianne and everything else he did in the series. Even Charles finds him to be a sick bastard.

Oct 10th 2013 at 2:40:41 PM •••

He was voted down. You want to make a case bring it here.

May 22nd 2011 at 8:40:12 PM •••

I request that the Girl Posse from School Days be back from the list. While the main character is an extreme Jerkass and isn't exactly a Complete Monster, those bitches have no reason at all to pull that shit they did. After all, Western Animation has Eric Cartman from South Park and Web Comics has Xykon from Order Of The Stick despite both being on the YMMV territory.

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May 15th 2011 at 9:42:18 AM •••

Does Light Yagami count? Because I was considering putting him in, but I wasn't sure.

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May 27th 2011 at 11:17:33 PM •••

I'd argue he avoids it though just barely. And before someone asks, no I'm not a Light fanboy. He's a son of a bitch and I cheered when he died. That said, Light is the viewpoint character, and maintains some audience sympathy throughout the series. He has to, or the show wouldn't work. He also has good intentions initially, and continues to tell himself that he has said intentions. I'd say if you have to convince yourself every morning that your're the hero, you ain't this.

May 28th 2011 at 3:35:26 AM •••

And doesn't he help out his sister at one point? Altruism disqualifies you.

May 29th 2011 at 11:52:20 AM •••

The way I see it, he started as a Knight Templar and remained that way for most of the series, but he turned into a Complete Monster around the time of his father's death. Wheather that qualitifies him, I don't know.

Apr 11th 2011 at 10:55:33 AM •••

You may have noticed a significant trimming of this article recently. Here's what happened.

This article is one of several that has gotten so large, editing it has been causing server problems. See this thread for details.

To fix this, and to ensure it doesn't happen again, I am initiating a major project to get all of the Blue Linked series their own article in the Monster namespace. This will alleviate the size issue in the main page.

You can help by moving any entries for series with a main article to their own Monster namespace. The only entries that should go on Monster.Anime And Manga are those that do not have a main article.

Edited by Meeble
Apr 9th 2011 at 10:47:25 PM •••

Why is Otome's Girl Posse from School Days removed from the list? I thought all the Complete Monsters here are the YMMV type?

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Aug 10th 2011 at 8:52:30 PM •••

Um, no. If you have a single redeeming trait, you're gone. Someone may have removed it on that basis. I don't know for sure.

Mar 27th 2011 at 6:19:22 PM •••

Jamitov Hymen is NOT CM. The fact that he personally ordered Bask Ohm to stop killing spacenoids without a reason, because spacenoids are necessary, with a really deep thought and sad look just because Bask did not understand nor take him seriously on that point. He got some moral in him.

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Mar 27th 2011 at 10:10:15 PM •••

Seems fair. Remember, folks, the slightest hint of genuine remorse disqualifies you from being a Complete Monster. These guys are the absolute deep end of fictional villainy.

Edited by Iaculus
Oct 10th 2013 at 2:42:06 PM •••

Heck with that. Jamitov doesn't do anything. We never see him order Bask to commit his crimes; Bask does those on his own. Jamitov doesn't have the personality to qualify.

Mar 18th 2011 at 4:20:38 PM •••

I would think Kouji from the Hentai movie"Chains of Lust" should be on here.If you ever see this hentai mini series this guy could make you disgusted that he got away with it all.He kidnaps three women with his partner to star in their porn videos.To be specific he makes videos of him and his partner raping them.The first woman they rape is a high school student they drug at a mall.They video tape and rape her in they van.After they rape her, they said they did it because she was at the wrong place at the wrong time.After that they on to black mail her mother with the tape saying that it would blemish their family's reputation.What's worse they do this while her husband is out of time.He blantly forces himself on her mother in order for daughter to be returned safetly.Not only that he forces the mother's sister into their disgusting acts.Do you know what crowns it all up,Kouji cosies up to some corrupt police men who called in by the mother to stop them.Kouji ,in exchange for the police's silence,basically sends the three women to be ganged banged by this disgusting piles of corrup crap that are supposed to be the law.Near the end Kouji is almost killed by one of the police men for apparently trying to rat him out to the higher ups.At the end he survives to kill his partner who ratted him out to the police man.Yeah,what makes me really want to wish he was killed was the fact it is left ambigous what he is going to do to the three women now that he impregnanted them and in chains.Do you know what he basically screwed with their lives because he picked the mother and daughter randomly out of a busy crowd and decided it would be fun to make rape porn videos of them.I don't care what they say but he was never funny but a straigt up example of what I hate about hentai protaganists(with everything seen I think he is an antaganist).He's basically an unfunny rapist who doesn't make a big deal he's shitting on three innocent women's lives with no remorse.

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May 12th 2011 at 8:46:19 AM •••

OK, two things wrong here:

1- edit your writing better, split it into paragraphs or something, because this looks like a Wall of Text.

2- I wrote long ago an entry concerning Hentai CMs, which is still there and seems well-accepted (I don't remember it being contested anyways). It's the one about how if we wrote in all Hentai CMs in there we'd wind up with WAAYYY too much stuff here - right about now I can think about a dozen of them at least with no effort. I'm one of this trope's biggest supporters, but I think we have to draw some lines in the interests of clarity and readability. It's already a hot potato as is. So sorry, but no dice.

Edited by Paireon
Feb 17th 2011 at 3:14:33 PM •••

Noticed someone added Zouken Matou to the Fate/Stay Night entry. Since he only appears in the Heaven's Feel route (which hasn't been animated yet), I believe he should be cut.

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Feb 17th 2011 at 11:53:11 AM •••

Some examples were removed from the Violinist Of Hameln, and no reason was given beyond a mention of Evilly Affable in the modified writeup. A better justification is needed or else I'll put them back on (The Joker and Order Of The Stick's Xykon also fall under Evilly Affable, and were judged to fit Complete Monster sandards anyway).

Here they are for reference:

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Mar 6th 2011 at 7:00:36 PM •••

OK, since nobody answered, I'm putting them back.

Jan 16th 2011 at 9:13:05 AM •••

  • Eva/Eva-Beatrice in Umineko No Naku Koro Ni: Starting with torturing Rosa via killing her over and over again, she decides being as cruel as possible is fun and spends the rest of the arc killing everyone else off while also subjecting them to this fate. She's eventually the only survivor (though her status on whether she actually killed anyone besides Battler is debatable). Then after that, she makes the only other remaining Ushiromiya (Ange)'s life a living hell just because she won't accept her as her mother, going as far as siccing ANOTHER evil aunt on her (Kasumi) who wants to make Ange suffer because she's the daughter of her much-hated sister Kyrie. And then she encourages said evil aunt to tear apart the last remaining symbols of Maria's innocence in front of her. And after things happen, she shows up to shove a bullet into her brain. Keep in mind, EVA IS SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD AT THIS POINT DUE TO HEART FAILURE..
    • Lambdadelta: Well first, she's the one who enabled Miyo Takano to get as far as she did back in Higurashi, if the backstory is to be believed. And of course, she now provides the same service for Beatrice, only more directly. And at the end of Arc 3, she very scarily reminds Beatrice of her place. She's determined to keep the game in a TIE, thus screwing over the Ushiromiyas as well. And at the end of Arc 4, she shackles Beato up so she can no longer escape or run away like she did with Maria. Now, the only way Beato can lose is if Battler wins and disproves her existence...
    • For many fans, Kinzou Ushiromiya falls into this too. He was always close to this trope because of his treatment of his family and the subverted Pater Familicide, but the revelations about Beatrice Ushiromiya, his daughter and the fact that this was Parental Incest seems have been the Moral Event Horizon that pushed him into this.

Cut several examples from Umineko No Naku Koro Ni, on the grounds of conflicting with one of the requirements - No Empathy. Kinzo is specifically shown to have spent the last 19 years regretting his actions. Terrible as they might be, his regrets show he still feels empathy.

Unless the last episode contradicts it, Lambdadelta now actually appears to be a Stealth Mentor.

A case might be made for Eva-Beatrice, but the bit I've cut mostly discusses Eva's actions. She quite possibly wasn't even responsible for the murders, and is probably one of the most devoted to her family in the series. The way she treated Ange in the aftermath of surviving the island doesn't appear to have been purposely malicious either.

Edited by Valentine Hide/Show Replies
Jan 30th 2011 at 9:54:49 PM •••

We'll have to see with the last chapter; it's been released recently IIRC, we'll have to wait until japanese-fluent tropers pick it up, or until it gets translated. Although it may be more appropriate to put it on the Video Games page, as I don't believe the entry here talks just about the manga/anime.

EDIT: Last I heard they're gonna do it like Higurashi, one "Answer" chapter for every "Question" chapter, so it might be a while longer.

Edited by Paireon
Dec 19th 2010 at 9:02:29 AM •••

I'd like to advocate for Babidi to be put back in the Dragonball section, taking into account that he:

1. Kills off his loyal minions (Spopovitch, Yamu, and Dabura) despite the fact that they help him succeed in reviving Buu, simply because he has no more use for them.

2. Takes great joy in having Buu kill the people of Earth to lure out Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks (and at one point tells Goku that he intends to kill more people just to spite him after being asked to stop).

3. Kills someone that gave him information on Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks simply because he found it to be useless.

Like Freeza, he was an antagonist that wasn't created to be evil or insane. He was simply an asshole that enjoyed being evil.

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Jan 30th 2011 at 9:52:18 PM •••

I agree. Wonder why he was removed in the first place, I left him up when I cleaned the page up.

Nov 26th 2010 at 4:39:12 PM •••

Do the Buddhist Monks from Air count as complete monsters? They place a curse on Kanna (which extends to her next incarnations and it kills her whenever she loves someone or vice versa) simply because she left the temple to see her mother.

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Nov 26th 2010 at 5:54:23 PM •••

Sounds like a Moral Event Horizon moment to me.

A Complete Monster, though, needs to commit a series of horrible acts. And fulfil several other criteria, detailed on the main page.

Jan 30th 2011 at 10:02:44 PM •••

Agreed, Iaculus. If it's the only horrible thing we see them do, they don't quite fit.

Nov 24th 2010 at 8:45:09 PM •••

I don't think that Roberto counts as a Complete Monster. True, he is an Axe-Crazy Psycho-For-Hire. However, it is made explicitly clear that he was transformed into one by the sickos at Kinderheim 511. Wolfgang Grimmer recalls that he originally was a kind-hearted young boy who visited him every afternoon to share his cocoa with him while he was recuperating in the infirmary. Ultimately, however, he was forcefully deprived of fundamental emotions such as compassion and love and subsequently enlisted in the military where he was transformed into a killer. Furthermore, the heinous acts which he commits in the series can largely be attributed to his unwavering devotion to Johann whom he worships for giving him a distant memory from his past (his love for cocoa).

Edited by Kira1987 Hide/Show Replies
Nov 25th 2010 at 5:14:06 AM •••

True - he is a sidekick to the local Mind Rape expert. That alone divests him of some responsibility for his crimes.

Nov 21st 2010 at 12:45:06 PM •••

  • Despite Enishi's Freudian Excuse, until his defeat, he is a Complete Monster through a through. When he ends up in Shang-hai for example, he murders the rich family who takes him in and says 'Now I have all I'll need', and he's always been a rather messed up child. Wanting Kenshin to die just after meeting him, and he systematically tortures all of Kenshin's friends and allies outside his circle. What happens to him at the end though-when he is denied his sister's smile (he thought before that everything he was doing was approved by Tomoe) and his subsequent breakdown is a fitting punishment.

The smile that he was denied was not of his sister; was of his MENTAL IMAGE of his sister. In other words, the that you put as one fitting punishment was "have one Villainous Breakdown after one Heel Realization". This disqualifies he by requisite 4

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Dec 8th 2010 at 10:33:41 PM •••

Thank you for taking that off. I've been telling people he doesn't belong forever. You'd think the fact that he doesn't die and it doesn't feel like a cop out would be enough for people. I hate him, but he ain't this.

Nov 13th 2010 at 11:09:21 AM •••

Why was Commander Red removed? Several of the things he did were very much irredeemable. For one thing, besides the fact that he was the one who hired Tao Pai Pai (who IS a complete monster, anyways) in the first place, he was also very much responsible for a huge amount of bloodshed from the Red Ribbon Army's actions due to the fact that he was their commander. Not only that, but they primarily did so out of fear of what would happen to him if they failed to do so (as it is implied that he kills them for failing in some fashion). Heck, he freely admitted when confronted by Adjutant Black after the latter overheard his wish that he was perfectly willing to sacrifice his entire army for his wish, and even hints that he is going to kill Black because he was expendable had Black not killed him. Speaking of his wish, he intended to wish for... no, not world domination, not even any conquest of any sort, but to become taller, meaning he extinguished countless lives, both Red Ribbon personnel and innocent civilians, just for an extremely trivial wish. Maybe it's not quite as bad as Frieza, but Tao Pai Pai wasn't as bad as Frieza, either, yet he was still eligable for the trope.

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Nov 13th 2010 at 9:37:14 PM •••

I don't know, but if he's a case of "not as bad as someone else" than that may figure into it. They are trying to cut the page down now, so if someone is less evil than the reigning monster in show, they may well be removed.

Nov 14th 2010 at 4:06:31 AM •••

I know, but Tao Pai Pai isn't nearly as bad as Frieza yet he got a spot. if Tao Pai Pai gets a spot, so does he.

Nov 15th 2010 at 7:26:06 PM •••

Like I said, I wouldn't know. I'm not the one who took them off (it's been forever since I've watched any DBZ). I was just proposing a possibilty. Also isn't Tao from Dragon Ball and not Dragon Bal Z? If so, that might explain it: within Dragon Ball he's the most evil thing possible, and Frieza is in DBZ? Once again, I didn't do it, so I don't know.

Nov 25th 2010 at 8:09:17 AM •••

Commander Red is less evil than Tao Pai Pai as well, and that pushes him further away. Furthermore, he's also not as bad as Piccolo Daimao, Piccolo's first incarnation, who was a sadistic Omnicidal Maniac. Tao Pai Pai is the only non-Z Dragon Ball villain to contend with Piccolo Daimao in the "being a total SOB" contest. Commander Red looks pretty much like a joke compared to those two, and he's consistently underwhelming during his screen time. His troops were complete morons to keep working for him or not replacing him with someone who actually was competent and/or not a Bad Boss. And we don't see the Red Ribbon Army commit that much in terms of war crimes, they pretty much just conquer and occupy like any attacking army would do. Remember that Offstage Villainy doesn't make one a Complete Monster.

Oct 31st 2010 at 10:33:36 PM •••

Does this really count?

  • Dekim Barton from Gundam Wing Endless Waltz, who spent almost two decades setting up a plan to Take Over the World by pulling a Colony Drop, then sending five Super Prototype Gundams to wipe out any remaining resistance. And when that fell through, he revised the plan, this time using soldiers manipulated into thinking they were fighting for their slain leader's ideals, when in fact they're just following Dekim's plot. And on top of that, there's the strong implication that Mariemaia, the figurehead leader of the rebellion and Dekim's granddaughter isn't really his granddaughter OR Treize Khushrenada's daughter, but rather some random little girl Dekim effectively brainwashed. And after she's shot, he boasts that he can easily make another one. And all this because he thought Earth needed to be punished for the assassination of the colonies' leader. Just damn.

Yes, Dekim was a dick, a Jerkass, a Smug Snake, and a total bastard. But he never engages in any violence personally. The trope page says that people being killed by an Evil Overlord don't count; he has to be present. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dekim never gets his hands dirty does he?

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Oct 31st 2010 at 10:40:27 PM •••

Brainwashing a little girl into a political puppet might count.

Nov 1st 2010 at 9:02:45 PM •••

But that's just standard Smug Snake behaviour. A Complete Monster has to cross the line again, and again, and again. Just to use another Gundam example, contrast him with Azrael or Ali, both of whom are so far over the line it'd funny if it wasn't so sick. I can personally say that even within Wing I found Tsubarov (the chief engineer) far more vile than Dekim, and he still doesn't count as this. Again, not trying to excuse Dekim, he's an SOB, through and through, but is he really bad enough for this list?

Nov 2nd 2010 at 5:44:22 AM •••

It'd be standard Smug Snake behaviour if he was doing it to an impressionable adult. Screwing up a child that badly for the simple sake of political advancement, and not even caring when she gets shot, is pretty much guaranteed to be a Moral Event Horizon. I will admit, though, that a Complete Monster must commit a series of acts that are each worthy of crossing the Horizon on their own, and since I haven't watched the film, I can't really supply any more.

Nov 2nd 2010 at 9:57:44 PM •••

That's my point. He's well over the Moral Event Horizon, but he doesn't really do it again. So evil, but maybe not this?

EDIT: Since no one objected I removed him a while ago. If anyone wants to dispute it, I'm waiting right here. Hopefully, no one does.

Edited by AmbarSonofDeshar
Nov 25th 2010 at 7:47:04 AM •••

Well, we're tying to pare the pages down a bit, so leaving him out gets a thumbs up for me. If his original plan had worked as intended, then yes, he'd count (ordering an atrocity can make you a CM under the right circumstances, for example Grand Moff Tarkin from Star Wars), but seeing as it fell through, it leaves only his treatment of Mariemaia as a truly despicable act, and he'd need a bit more to qualify as crossing the Moral Event Horizon once doesn't automatically qualify you. He may be the worst Gundam Wing villain, but compared to other villains from similarly themed and toned shows we've seen a lot worse, as the other Gundam entries show.

Oct 29th 2010 at 1:20:37 PM •••

Some specification on the Monstrosity of Dr. Hell and Ashura, please.

They may be evil, and card-carryingly so, but they're not OMG die now. They're amusing, and Dr. Hell does care about Baron Ashura, and is reasonably pissed in a few continuities when he dies.

Jul 21st 2010 at 10:20:11 AM •••

Whoever keeps adding new people to the Code Geass section please stop. The fact that none of them, besides Bradley, were complete monsters is a major part of the show and the examples white wash the complicated Anti-Villain antagonist into them.

Schneizel did not want to bomb the cities but he thought it was better then having every one enslaved by lelouche who was a acting like a complete monster at the time, he did not think it would create a utopia just stop his brothers tyranny. Also the bombing was not his idea even though he did go along with it, but that of Nunnally as she stated in the last episode, for some reason people tend to forget that

The Emperor and VV are more complicated but the former for most of the series was a Designated Villain and when you finally hear his reasoning and what he went through it is obvious he is Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. As for VV he also went through the trauma Charles did and while what he did was vary bad he still has his reasons and like his brother think that what he is doing is best for mankind

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Jul 23rd 2010 at 2:14:46 PM •••

Schneizel manipulated both Nina and Nunnally into going along with his plan. Nunnally had been deceived by the bastard into believing that Damocles and bombing cities was the solution, he was using her for his plan, well knowing that Lelouch wouldn't dare harm his own sister. Sorry, but that goes beyond Well-Intentioned Extremist and crosses the Moral Event Horizon into Complete Monster territory.

So, I say he deserves his place back in the trope.

Oh, and as for Nunnally, she only said she had fired a FLEIJA warhead earlier to stop Lelouch, even if it meant killing him - at this point, Schneizel already had her completely bent to his will. And in any case, Schneizel was still going to murder millions of people for the sake of his plan. That's evil, plain and simple.

And... The Emperor and VV doing what is best for mankind? If you really believe that, you're delusional - they wanted to create a world in which everyone would be assimilated, and they never cared what others thought of this. And then, the extremes they go to achieve their plans make it impossible to sympathize for them.

I think you're trying too hard to see Grey-and-Grey Morality, when in fact it's Black-and-Grey Morality, with Lelouch being the grey.

Edited by megamanexe93@hotmail.it
Jul 26th 2010 at 12:27:00 PM •••

But the plan was not Schneizelís it was Nunnallyís as was stated in the anime, sure he went along with it and implemented it but he did not come up with it. As for Nina she developed a the bomb independently of Britannia and even though she later worked under him to perfect it he did not make do anything she did not want to or manipulate her in any way.

Oh and Nunnally did not say she fired one FLEIJA warhead, she said she was bombing the cities to stop Leluoch. Sure she had lied to Schneizel about the reason for it but she did come up with the bombings in the first place. Also if murdering millions of people for the sake of oneís plan means that the person is a complete monster then both Lelouch and Nunnally would count.

Also The Emperor and VV did think that the assimilation plot was what was best for mankind do everybody was equal, were they crazy, yes, but they thought what they were doing was right and also because of their back story they can be considered woobie destroyer of worlds instead of complete monsters

I think you're trying too hard to see Black-and-Grey Morality, when in fact it's Gray-and-Grey Morality, with both sides being Well Intoned Extremist.

Jul 27th 2010 at 2:26:51 AM •••

I have just finished rewatching the last episode of Code Geass R2. Nothing indicates that the Damocles plan was ever Nunnally's idea. Yes, she did say that she fired the FLEIJA bombs, but there are no definite indications that she ever came up with the plan in the first place. That would have been massive (and I mean MASSIVE) Character Derailment on Nunnally's side. The only reasonable possibility is that it was all Schneizel's idea, and he was playing Nunnally like a fiddle to corrupt her to his side.

As for Nina, I hate that bitch and she will never earn redemption in my eyes, but how can't you see that Schneizel did everything he could to turn her in the worst possible direction? I mean, he DID tell her that the use of FLEIJA was what Euphemia would have wanted, and if it wasn't for him, maybe Nina would have stopped herself short of completing it.

In my opinion, a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds CAN be a Complete Monster, if he goes over a certain line. (See Nakago, Yuzuha...)

So Yeah, in my mind, Schneizel, Emperor Charles and VV will never be anything else but Complete Monsters.

Jul 30th 2010 at 6:17:55 AM •••

I not see Code Geass(but want see) but based in their description, Shneizel, Emperor Charles and VV are not cases of Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds... are cases of Well-Intentioned Extremist. Well-Intentioned Extremist was included recently in the "list of villains that NEVER are Complete Monsters" and is easy understand why.

Edited by MagBas
Aug 6th 2010 at 11:40:16 AM •••

Charles = Hitler, ?

Edited by cclospina
Jun 7th 2010 at 6:52:36 PM •••

So... wait, was anime full of chillingly monstrous villains before western live-action TV was? Sorry, I have to admit I'm a little disturbed by all the introductions 1. stressing how irredeemably evil villains are apparently a relatively new thing in media, and 2. how this is a triumph.

Jun 5th 2010 at 11:45:32 AM •••

In addition to Frieza, I don't think that Cell belongs on the Complete Monster page either. Maybe he killed thousands of Earth people, but the Earth people are portrayed as so damned stupid that it really prevents any sympathy from this particular viewer. When everyone just accepted that it was Mr. Satan who defeated Cell, it sort of makes you wish that Cell had annihilated the Earth. It negates Complete Monster status if the ones that the villain is being evil to are foolish creatures who deserve it.

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Nov 10th 2010 at 7:26:51 AM •••

.....NOBODY deserved what Cell was doing.

Nov 10th 2010 at 12:00:59 PM •••

Martial arts fans being dense is not an excuse for planetary genocide. Otherwise we'd have to nuke America every time the NABC holds a match.

Jun 3rd 2010 at 5:21:46 PM •••

  • And the third is none other than the aforementioned young boy, only all grown up: the darkly charismatic Big Bad Nakago himself, no matter how much the authoress and the fangirls give him the Draco in Leather Pants treatment. Yes, his backstory is tragic enough (with him being the last member of the Hin Tribe who was forced to see his mother being raped by the Emperor's soldiers, then accidentally killing her when his powers awakened, and being used as a sex toy by the Emperor for years), and he was intended to be a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, but Yuu Watase was less than skilled in pulling it off, and his actions are so horrendous that he cannot be anything else but a Complete Monster anyway: manipulating Yui into turning against her best friend Miaka by tricking her into believing she had been raped because of Miaka's inaction (when in fact, Miaka genuinely didn't know Yui was in trouble, and was appalled to the point of a borderline Heroic BSoD when she found out); cruelly using and lying to anyone he comes in contact with, even just for the sheer joy of it and enjoying the results; trying to commit genocide on the country responsible for his mother's death, with absolutely no regard for the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocents; manipulating Suboshi (hardly a saint himself, but still with some redeeming qualities) into murdering Tamahome's family, taking advantage of Suboshi's own distress at the apparent loss of his beloved twin brother Amiboshi; and finally, deciding to take revenge against the whole universe for the miserable life he has had, by becoming a god and erasing everything only to become the supreme being and recreate it all as HE saw fit. Really, Nakago is It's All About Me personified. Word of advice, Watase-san: if you really want your villains to be seen as woobies, avoid making them cross the Moral Event Horizon multiple times.

The trope description says Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds NEVER can be Complete Monsters and Yuu Watase was really blatant about Nakago be one. (Ok, only in his last moments and after this, but...)

Edited by MagBas Hide/Show Replies
Jun 4th 2010 at 9:11:24 AM •••

Except for most people, it plain doesn't work or begin to excuse him

Jun 4th 2010 at 11:02:58 AM •••

Lily Nadesico here: what Lightysnake said. There is only so much the audience's sensibility can take before a villain becomes irredeemable in their eyes, after which any attempt to humanize the bad guy or explain away his actions will only outrage them... and Nakago went well above and beyond that limit. When I reached the end of Fushigi Yuugi, the bastard had done so much evil that nothing could make me feel pity for him, and in fact, I was completely indifferent to his story. (And I wish Miaka, Tamahome and the others were as well...)

Jun 4th 2010 at 12:03:37 PM •••

The problem is: Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds is not a subjetive trope. And despite his atrocities Nakago fits perfectly in the trope description."in fact, a common twist is to present a terrifying villain and then pull a Reveal that swings the sympathy of the audience (or at least the other characters) around in his favor."

Jun 5th 2010 at 10:38:21 AM •••

...this not changes the fact the authoress tried(emphasis in "tried") turn Nakago sympathetic and was really blatant with this.

Jun 5th 2010 at 10:41:22 AM •••

I think the point they're trying to make is that, just because the other sees Nagato as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, doesn't mean the readers do. Course, I haven't read Fushigi Yugi, but from what I know of it, Nagato does some pretty messed up stuff.

Jun 5th 2010 at 10:56:49 AM •••

"the audience is supposed is supposed to feel some sympathy for him and or his motives"("is supposed" is the first hint this not a subjetive trope)"When it's all in the fans' heads, this is Draco In Leather Pants." again implying the author who defines if one villain is supposed(in Nakago case, emphasis in supposed) to be sympathetic.

Jun 5th 2010 at 2:12:30 PM •••

Watase tried... and failed horribly. In my mind, Nakago will always be a Complete Monster, and nothing could ever redeem him. Yes, I'm invoking Death of the Author, but for what concerns me, I feel insulted that that piece of shit got so much sympathy from the other characters.

And I feel insulted that Watase tried to trick us into thinking he's just a poor victim who just needed to be understood.

Apr 4th 2010 at 6:37:05 PM •••

What do you think? Should this picture be replaced with a classical example? Say, Frieza? Someone that more than a thousand(figuratively speaking) will recognize?

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Apr 4th 2010 at 8:12:28 PM •••

I don't know if Frieza really counts as a Complete Monster. I can't remember him doing anything all that monster-ish on-screen that was beyond the purview of a normal villain. Still, I have no idea who that guy in the picture is and he doesn't really look like a monster. What about...hm, I dunno...Gargoyle? He was pretty monster-ish.

Edited by SomeGuy
Apr 4th 2010 at 8:44:03 PM •••

Well, an actual picture for us to look back would probably be best right now. This one is a little small and has no Kick the Dog, but considering the guy and his henchmen dress like the KKK it might work.

Apr 25th 2010 at 4:10:08 PM •••

Frieza is sufficient. He is also widely known. And yes, he has done horrible things onscreen. Destroying Planet Vegeta and Namek counts.

May 4th 2010 at 1:09:04 PM •••

While that's a fair analysis, I feel like the Johan from Monster should DEFINITELY go up there. He's the first entry on the page, his picture is on the index and his own series is called Monster. Plus, Frieza honestly looks kind of goofy in the picture.

May 15th 2010 at 7:47:31 PM •••

Then lets find a less goofy picture. Two picture entries for Monster just doesn't work. Unless you've got another picture of him doing something horrible?

May 31st 2010 at 8:15:47 PM •••

I concur that Frieza doesn't count as a complete monster. He certainly IS a monster. There is no question about that. But there are at least two instances in which Frieza isn't as evil as he could be. He agreed to not torture Nail in front of the elder. He also ceased causing needless destruction to planet Namek when Goku told him to stop (at least at first). If he was 100% evil, he would not have agreed to do either of those things.

Edited by emperorzaige
Sep 15th 2010 at 4:03:58 PM •••

Why not use a picture of the Elder Toguro Brother from Yu Yu Hakusho. When I first came across the complete monster section I searched the list to see if he made it.

Edited by jate
Sep 23rd 2010 at 1:03:36 PM •••

We have Frieza on the page. You guys are nitpicking. I'm putting the picture back up.

Sep 23rd 2010 at 1:07:51 PM •••

Frieza is Just A Face And A Caption. Literally. To assume that he'd be universally-recognised as embodying this trope is the epitome of Fan Myopia.

Take this to Image Pickin', guys. That's what it's there for, and I believe there's a topic on this very subject already.

Nov 10th 2010 at 7:24:22 AM •••

Dude, Freeza slaughtered men and children, tortured and later killed Krillin, is responsible for blowing up planets and mass genocide of entire speicies, and he enjoys it! And he has no redeeming qualities either. He's a freaking Complete Monster. He's never treated as anything other than a Complete Monster in canon. I'm not saying he deserves to be the picture but he defenitely deserves to be on the page.

Edited by ManwiththePlan
Nov 26th 2010 at 1:02:03 AM •••

Why not just stick with Johan Liebert?

Edited by 98.90.98.93
Nov 26th 2010 at 6:01:59 AM •••

Because he's the posterboy on the main Complete Monster page.

Nov 26th 2010 at 10:53:44 AM •••

That, too, should be taken to Image Pickin'.

It doesn't help[, though, that that picture is one of the most iconic ones of the character archetype. As a result, we're rather stuck with the second-bests for subsections.

Apr 21st 2011 at 10:32:53 AM •••

I most definitely think that Frieza should be the page picture. There was a scene where in his giant second form he stepped on five-year-old Gohan's head and was mushing it into the ground, right after ripping out the poor kid's hair. I think that the picture would be explanatory for anybody looking at it. Also, Frieza was smiling the whole time.

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