Thread created as a spin-off of an Ask The Tropers thread
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There have been some recurring problems when it comes to how to refer to a character due to them being potentially transgender, such as Yamato or Snapdragon, or has other circumstances that make their gender identity/pronouns unclear. While in the past each character has gotten their own dedicated thread, the latest problem when it comes to how to interpreted Bridget has raised an opinion that there should be more of a general thread discussing these topics in case any future problems come up. Preferably we should discuss one character at a time before moving up to the next character.
Queries about references to a character's deadname are also on-topic here.
Spoilers in the thread must be tagged.
As a rule of thumb, using they/them in cases where the character's gender is unclear is acceptable.
If someone disregards consensus that was established here, particularly if a character is clearly trans and someone is trying to deny that, it's something to report on Ask The Tropers rather than here.
Spoilers in this "Resolved characters" folder are unmarked.
- General policy on characters who reincarnate/gain new bodies, and have their gender change when they do so (in specific, Eternals (2021), Doctor Who): When discussing a particular incarnation/body, use the pronouns the work and its characters used for the character in that form. When a character has used different pronouns at different times (e.g. for different incarnations), default to they/them pronouns if discussing the character overall. Discussion begins here.
- A from Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Intentionally not addressed by pronouns, use the name A. Discussion begins here
- Acht/Dedf1sh from Splatoon: They/them. Discussion begins here.
- Apep from Genshin Impact: It/its. Discussion begins here.
- Arval from Fire Emblem Warriors: Three Hopes: They/them. Discussion begins here
- Baron Ashura from Mazinger Z: They/them pronouns for their appearance in Super Robot Wars. Discussion begins here.
- Bedman? from Guilty Gear: It/its. Discussion begins here.
- Blitzcrank from League of Legends: They/them pronouns. Discussion begins here.
- Bridget from Guilty Gear: Confirmed to be a trans woman and uses she/her pronouns. Discussion begins in this discussion page thread, then continues in this Ask the Tropers query followed by the first post of this thread.
- Buzam A. "BC" Calessa from Vandread: She/her. Discussion begins here.
- Candy Caramella from Space Goofs: He/him in the original cartoon, she/her when referring to the version of Candy in the spin-off game Stupid Invaders. Discussion begins here.
- Cheese from Sonic the Hedgehog: He/him when referring to the version in the video games, they/them for the version in the IDW comics. Discussion begins here.
- Cho'gath from League of Legends: Both he/him and it/its are fine, as long as the pronoun used is consistent within a given example. Discussion begins here.
- Claude from Claudine: He/him. Discussion begins here.
- Dragona from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: He/him until more information is given. Discussion begins here.
- Enkidu from Fate Series: They/them. Discussion begins here.
- F.F. from Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Stone Ocean: They/them pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- FLUDD from Super Mario Sunshine: It/its pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Funtime Foxy from Five Nights at Freddy's: Intentionally Ambiguous Gender; he/she pronouns. Discussion starts here and continues here.
- Gabriela from Como dice el dicho: She/her, use the name Gabriela. Discussion begins here.
- Gala Laxi from Dragalia Lost: They/them when referring to the combined entity of Laxi and Mascula. She/her when referring to just Laxi, he/him when referring to just Mascula. Discussion begins here.
- Gozer from Ghostbusters (1984): They/them. Discussion starts here.
- Gwyndolin from Dark Souls: He/him pronouns. Discussion begins here.
- Hassan of Intoxicated Smoke from Fate/Grand Order: He/him pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Heather Swanson from South Park: "She/her" pronouns (Scare Quotes included). Discussion starts here and continues here.
- Hibari from Stop Hibari Kun: She/her pronouns.
- Juniper from Xenoblade Chronicles 3: They/them pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Kris from Deltarune: They/them pronouns, and is to be treated as nonbinary unless otherwise stated. This decision was made in this thread.
- Lambert from Cult of the Lamb: They/them. Discussion starts here
- Lor from Borderlands: He/him, use the name Lor. Discussion begins here.
- Mangle from Five Nights at Freddy's: Intentionally Ambiguous Gender; he/she pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Mordred from Fate Series: She/her, with an Ambiguous Gender Identity entry. Discussion starts here.
- Morpheus Duvall from Resident Evil: Dead Aim: They/them on the Resident Evil - Umbrella Corporation character page. Discussion begins here.
- Omochao from Sonic the Hedgehog: They/them. Discussion begins here.
- Osana Najimi from Komi Can't Communicate: They/them pronouns. Discussion begins here.
- Pamela Incu from Welcome to Demon School! Iruma-kun: He/him. Discussion begins here.
- Phantom Mangle from Five Nights at Freddy's: Intentionally Ambiguous Gender; he/she pronouns. Discussion starts here.
- Prized Isshin Blade from Genshin Impact: He/him. Discussion begins here
- Pokémon in general from Pokémon: Gendered pronouns when discussing a specific individual Pokémon, it/its when discussing a Pokémon species in general. Discussion begins here, is continued here.
- La Pucelle from Magical Girl Raising Project: He/him in civilian form, she/her when transformed into a magical girl. Discussion begins here.
- Snapdragon from High Guardian Spice: They/them pronouns. This decision was made in this thread via crowner.
- Stella Lulu from Magical Girl Raising Project: He/him in civilian form, she/her when transformed into a magical girl. Discussion begins here.
- Sui from Campfire Cooking in Another World with My Absurd Skill: It/its. Discussion begins here.
- Takatsuki from Wandering Son: He/him except for when discussing the end of the manga beneath spoiler tags. In that case, she/her. Discussion begins here
- Terri from Amphibia: They/them. Discussion begins here
- Thailand from Scandinavia and the World: They/them, per what's used on this official FAQ page.
- The Toaster from The Brave Little Toaster: He/him pronouns. This decision was made in this thread.
- Topa from The Orville: she/her outside Recap pages, pronouns at time of episode on Recap. Discussion begins here.
- Vennia from Cafe Enchante: Both he/him and they/them are fine, as long as the pronoun used is consistent within a given example. Discussion begins here.
- The vessels (the Knight, the Hollow Knight, the Broken Vessel, and the other void siblings) from Hollow Knight: It/its. Discussion begins here, is continued here.
- Vivian from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door: She/her pronouns. Due to Adaptational Gender Identity, whether she's transgender or cisgender depends on the localization. Discussion begins here.
- Yamato from One Piece: He/him pronouns. This decision was decided in this thread via crowner.
- Yena from Seton Academy: Join the Pack!: He/him pronouns. Discussion begins here.
Edited by Bisected8 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 1:16:38 PM
since their transformation is a spoiler, that seems fine to me.
regarding Najimi, just using Najimi's name also seems fine to me. (believe it or not, ive met no-pronoun folks IRL too.)
No longer active.
IIRC the official localization uses they/them pronouns for Najimi, so that feels like the standard to go off of.
Be kind.
That one shitbag
So, I have a submission we could probably stand to mention: Baron Ashura from Mazinger Z. The character was created from a fusion between two lovers from the Mycenaen Empire known as Tristan & Isolde by Dr. Hell, with the resulting fusion being used by him as one of his lieutenants. How do we go about with them?
It's worth mentioning that while Mazinger doesn't have many of its works localised in English, the latest four entries in the Super Robot Wars series have all been localised in English and all prominently featured Mazinger (and pertinently to this discussion, Baron Ashura) from some version of the continuity. But they were written by Bandai-Namco's SE-Asian division (on account of Bandai Namco of America apparently being terrible at localisation), who aren't great at English and make translation flubs of their own.
I'm here, I guess.
Shocking Gun!
That is a really good question. Is Baron Ashura being the surviving halves of two people combined really commented on? Do the two halves retain their personalities? Does the Japanese writing give Ashura any particular Japanese pronouns?
Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!
I've seen playthroughs of those translated Super Robot Wars games and IIRC they referred to Baron Ashura as 'they' - which is what I would have instinctively gone with as well, FWIW.
That one shitbag
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
To answer each question: Yes, but only insofar as it relates to their origins as Mycenaeans, no, and I don't know in that particular order.
Edited by Hawkatana on Sep 10th 2022 at 10:41:56 PM
I'm here, I guess.
the Retromancer
re: Najimi, their gender is still not specified as a part of Running Gag and Najimi has answered to either when convinient, so either by name or by latest localization should be equally fine. There was a rant from genderfluid community that "they/them" is less accurate than original "he/she/(s)he", but they didn't make the dub.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Can someone confirm whether the English localization uses they/them pronouns?
I guess I should have said earlier that I knew Najimi's gender ambiguity was a running joke from the start, I just didn't know what pronouns we should be using.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 10th 2022 at 12:24:29 PM
drunk bunny
I think the best way to go about it would be either to use no pronouns, or they/them
no pronouns might get a bit awkward to write and read, but it's probably the most accurate.
they/them is going to be a lot more concise, and is definitely "good enough" considering Najimi's unique position.
i'm personally leaning no pronouns, but i definitely think it should be one of those two.
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
How do you not use pronouns, exactly? Just use their name and other descriptors every time? I'm just asking from a grammar perspective as someone who's generally unfamiliar with these things and how to handle them.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Pretty much. If the English localization uses neutral pronouns, use those. Otherwise, use no pronouns at all. The only person who will ever know the answer to this mystery is Najimi Najimiself.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 10th 2022 at 12:56:11 PM
That's how I would do it, yeah. Just refer to Najimi by name or descriptors and if that can't be done, fall back on they/them.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
the Retromancer
No pronouns means name-only I assume.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
To be clear I'm fine with using no pronouns, I've just never even realized it was an option and the logistics of it confused me for a hot second. But yeah, I think if we can implement it, it might be the best play.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
Looked up second season with Netflix dub, everyone refers to Najimi by "They".
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Well, that settles it. Update the folder.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Oh, yeah, nice and simple.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Done.
(As a side note, it bugs me that folders can't be opened when using the preview button, so I had to actually submit it to see what the final text looks like.)
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
That one shitbag
x11 So yeah. From what I've gathered, some of the SRW games have referred to Baron Ashura as "he" and some of them as "they", with some people even calling them "she". And as I said earlier, only four of the games have been officially localised in English (V, X, T and 30), and it was by the SE-Asian division of Bandai Namco, who are English-second language if even that. So how do we proceed from here?
EDIT: Changed the number of arrows because I am bad at math.
Edited by Hawkatana on Sep 14th 2022 at 4:47:53 AM
I'm here, I guess.
Showtime!
Look at which pronouns are used in the official English localizations, and if multiple are used we can look at which is most recent
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
~Hawkatana I think this is where you want to quote rather than use arrows because either I've counted correctly and you're pointing at your own post or I haven't, which just makes the point for quoting for the sake of clarity.
Franchouchou Sponsor
Blitzcrank from League of Legends has pronouns on official riot material and the wiki listed as "they/them", but all of the entries on this site refer to them as "he". They've even had to have their pronouns corrected on recent promotional material like skins due to a translation error.
Character Specific Page cleanup
Shocking Gun!
I am assuming that this is just a lore update that hasn't been carried over here? Regardless, I'm all for referencing Blizcrank with they/them pronouns.
drunk bunny
Definitely sounds like something that should be corrected.
"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
OP edited with Morpheus Duvall. Until further clarification, I assume the decision occurs only on the character sheet.
Edited by Tabs on Sep 9th 2022 at 1:59:30 AM