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Hindsight Cleanup

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The Hindsight tropes, Hilarious in Hindsight, Harsher in Hindsight, and Heartwarming in Hindsight, are among the most misused Audience Reaction tropes on this site. Many people don't understand that the tropes require more than just "This happened, so that happened", and end up adding examples which either lack connection or the substance that makes them funny/serious/not-so-funny/heartwarming. Some of them may be suited better for other tropes (ex: Life Imitates Art), while some may not belong on TV Tropes at all (such as ones involving politicians, due to Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment).

Please report any Hindsight example that you feel are questionable, and we'll analyze them to see if they are actually examples or not.

Remember that the Hindsight tropes are Audience Reactions. That means if an example under review discusses significant fan response pointing out the hindsight, the example can't be cut solely for being too tenuous for this thread.

    Common NOT in Hindsight examples 
  • Creator's character/portrayal dies in work and then creator dies in real life, unless their fictional death is closely similar to their real one (such as Billy Bob Joe portraying a character who dies from pancreatic cancer, then Billy Bob dies from pancreatic cancer himself)
  • Mundane word related to something terrible (such as "corona" or "Epstein") unless there's more to the connection (such as someone named "Corona" having the flu)
  • Creator appears in work then becomes more controversial later on.
  • A common event (such as a typical natural disaster) happens in work, then happens in real life (unless they are closely similar, such as the event happening to the same area in both reality and fiction around the same time) For once, not everything related to disease has to do with COVID-19, not everything related to racism and Police Brutality has to do with George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, and not everything related to sexual abuse has to do with #MeToo.
  • A common/generic concept was used in this work and then later reused in that work (too loose for a connection, unless the concept is so unique it's identified with the work)
  • Two actors appear together then do so in another work
  • Hindsight examples involving recent events, due to them often being shoehorns. Specifically:
    • COVID-19 examples, before 75% of the population has returned to normal
    • George Floyd/2020 Black Lives Matter examples, before protests have declined
  • Examples which fall guilty of Older Than They Think, such as "Make X Great Again" slogans. Aside from violating the ROCEJ, this slogan has been in use since the 1940s.
  • Characters using slurs which are treated as annoying at worst in the work, but is now harsher due to how severe the slur is made now. Discrimination has always existed with that slur. (May qualify for Values Dissonance if work is at least 20 years old.)

Note: As of January 2022, "Funny Aneurysm" Moment is no longer separate from Harsher in Hindsight.
  • The former redirects to the latter and all wicks to the former (with the exception of ones on archive pages and the YMMV Redirects index) must either be moved to the latter (if they're valid) or removed (if they're invalid).
  • The subpages for the former are still accessible from this page. After a subpage for "Funny Aneurysm" Moment has been completely cleaned up, turn it into a redirect to the Harsher in Hindsight subpage for the same medium to preserve inbounds.

Edited by Tabs on Jun 21st 2023 at 11:51:25 AM

Vilui Since: May, 2009
#4076: Jul 3rd 2021 at 9:25:22 AM

...the LYWRDI entry was included in my copy-paste by accident, though of course I'm happy for it to be discussed. I agree that it's mostly valid but the way it's presented could be improved.

Back to the Hindsight example, I've given it some more thought. It makes no sense to move it to The Hobbit, since it concerns material that never appeared in the published version of the work. Hindsight means "Work B affects how people react to earlier work A", which didn't happen in 2002 because the drafts weren't published yet.

I think the entry could be left to stand, if we consider the drafts to be a separate work, released in 2007. I just wanted to make sure this is okay because the letter of the law doesn't give a clear ruling on cases like this.

JAG01 Since: Mar, 2012
#4077: Jul 3rd 2021 at 3:29:32 PM

I still hold that if the drafts were for The Hobbit, they should be considered as noncanon, pre-release material from the novel, regardless of when they were officially published. But I've already given my vote on that, so I'll just leave it to discussion and move on.

I checked YMMV.Mass Effect 2 after going through the Mass Effect 1 examples. To no surprise, there be issues.

     Mass Effect 2 
  • "Funny Aneurysm" Moment:
    • During his mini mission, Joker wonders if he's dooming the galaxy by hooking up EDI. At one point, he mutters, "...now I have to spend all day computing pi because Joker plugged in the Overlord." Then comes the Overlord DLC... Okay, so what happens in the Overlord DLC that makes what Joker said less funny in hindsight?
    • A YouTube user made a video that depicted the series ending like Neon Genesis Evangelion. That video has since been made private. I'm assuming this fan used content from Mass Effect 2 to make it? If so, then there goes your only link between what you're about to say and this game. It was meant to be a joke, but it turned out to be prophetic when the third installment came out and the fans' reaction towards the endings being similar to Evangelions 16 years earlier. This is the YMMV page for Mass Effect 2. Not for Mass Effect 3 or Evangelion. If your example were valid, it would've gone on the older of those two works, not here. But alas, it's not valid, because it was based on a fan video we can't trope, because it has since become unavailable for public viewing.
    • One of Jack's lines is "If I die, I'm haunting you, Shepard," a typical Badass Boast that shows her Hidden Depths that she believes in that sort of thing. In Mass Effect 3, those who have died haunt Shepard. Shepard watched somebody they knew die horribly at some point in every possible background they can have, so they were already haunted at the start of Mass Effect 1 by the memories of people who died. One of the main points of Shepard's personal story throughout the trilogy is how they become more haunted as time goes on and more people they care about get killed.

  • Harsher in Hindsight:
    • Shepard initially baulks at Tali wanting to suppress evidence of her father's experiments on live geth. Tali says that revealing it would mean that her father would be held up as an example of a monster as a cautionary tale. You find Tali's dad dead and may even comfort her over it. Then you get to Project Overlord and see an even worse experiment performed on live geth. Feel like suppressing that evidence now? Yes, I do. Because the two scenarios are in no other way similar to one another.
    • So you convinced that asari on Illium to get back together with her krogan boyfriend, hopefully to get married and have kids and live happily ever after, right? Well, at least until Mass Effect 3, where you find out Charr died on a mission and Ereba will now be left to raise their daughter alone. So much for Good Feels Good... Maybe valid.
    • Shepard talking to Jacob may mention that he could always use "spare parts". In the Citadel DLC for 3, the clone who was made to supply "spare parts" for Shepard comes back to bite him in the ass. No context given for when "spare parts" was said between Shepard and Jacob, what they were discussing when they said it, or how it has anything to do with the Shepard clone in Citadel.
    • At the end of Overlord, Gavin Archer tries to justify what he's done on the grounds it could "spare a million mothers mourning a million sons." Pretty sure he's speaking metaphorically about stopping wars, but okay. Mass Effect: Andromeda has a character in a sidequest who was part of Overlord before she wisely managed to GTFO... because they tried to plug her son into the geth before David, and it's left her with a deep fear of AI of all kinds. Care to repeat that line, Dr. Archer? There might be a valid example of something here. However, the example is focusing on one line of dialogue for its context. Hindsight examples that do that have been pretty problematic so far. Given how messed-up what happens in the DLC is, the bar for how it can be made Harsher in Hindsight is set really far up. It might be worth putting in the time to expand on that context and better explain how that got accomplished.
    • The Horizon mission summary has Cerberus using front corporations to funnel aid and supplies to the colony. Come Mass Effect 3, Cerberus is behind Sanctuary, a refuge advertised as the only place safe from the Reapers, on Horizon. It is really a labratory studying huskification and indoctrination using the refugees as test subjects. Guess they were just setting up their atrocity factory under the guise of aid. This smacks of Fridge, not hindsight.
    • Omega is infected by an airborne plague, it has entire areas in lockdown, the plague spreads across species and seemingly resists attempts at containing it, with symptoms like respiratory damage that can easily be confused for something else until its too late. What few clinics are available are unable to help everyone. At the time of release, a dreadful prospect. At the time of the Updated Re-release... It hits very close to home no matter where you are from... It's a COVID shoehorn, Charlie Brown.

  • Hilarious in Hindsight:
    • Jack comes across like a sociopathic loner who can't connect with people and she can't fathom why Shepard (particularly the Paragon version) is the way he/she is. Courtenay Taylor would later voice the female vault dweller in Fallout 4, who is basically an everyman version of Shepard. Hey, look! It's actor stuff!
    • During Kasumi's loyalty mission, she mentions that part of the cover story she put together for Shepard was an article on them in Badass Weekly. This reference was part of the reason the author of Badass of the Week wrote an article for Shepard after completing the trilogy. In a way, Kasumi did get that article on Shepard written. The link needs to be fixed, because it doesn't link directly to the Commander Shepard article on the blog. Also not sure it fits under hindsight if the article in question was written in direct response to the Shout-Out given in the game.
    Badass of the Week Writer: [about the video clip where Kasumi mentions the article] Scroll ahead to 0:20 to witness what is either a cruel coincidence or the single greatest moment of my writing career.
    • After his loyalty mission is done, Grunt expresses his desire to rip out Uvenk's spine as a trophy. Five years later, his voice actor would go on to play Sub-Zero, who is infamous for doing that very thing. More actor stuff!
    • Jacob Taylor with his shirt off Hindsight Example with its context and punctuation missing
    • This game features a Phantom Thief named Kasumi who's not available in the vanilla version of the game. For extra points, Legion shares a voice with the aforementioned game's Starter Villain. What aforementioned game? The one potholed? Potholes don't count as context, bro. But at least we got more actor stuff.
    • The Lazarus project required Cerberus to take the original Shepard, keep what worked, and then rebuild & fix what didn't work without straying too far from the original - a challenge Bioware would also face about a decade after this game's release with the remastering process of Mass Effect Legendary Edition. The developers themselves actually referenced the Lazarus project on the blog post about the remaster's visual changes and additions. Maybe valid? It looks like an example of something, but I'm not sure if it's Hilarious in Hindsight.

     Squadmates 

Jack

  • Harsher in Hindsight: Take Jack with you on Legion's loyalty mission, and she'll say, "I'd never want to be brainwashed like that. Just kill me instead, please." If you don't go to the Grissom Academy side mission in 3, Shepard will have to kill a Brainwashed and Crazy Jack. Except that Jack's own loyalty mission goes into considerable detail about how this is precisely what Cerberus was trying to turn her into on Pragia before she escaped. So not hindsight.

Jacob Taylor

  • Harsher in Hindsight: In 3, Jacob voices his skepticism when Shepard mentions that they'd eventually like to settle down. Over the course of the game, there is reoccurring implication that Shepard is Resigned to the Call and is slowly becoming a Death Seeker because of it. It's not hindsight if it's the overall theme of the character's personal story arc.

Mordin Solus

  • "Funny Aneurysm" Moment: Sang "Major General's Song". Played for comedy. Then Mass Effect 3 came. Not so funny in replays. This one is everywhere on the Mass Effect pages, along with "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong" and "My work, my responsibility". These lines are all things Mordin said in Mass Effect 2 that he repeated for dramatic effect in Mass Effect 3. These are examples of Meaningful Echo, not any trope related to hindsight.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#4078: Jul 3rd 2021 at 4:54:04 PM

Bringing up the following example from Star Trek: Voyager S2E15 "Threshold":

bwburke94 Friends forevermore from uǝʌɐǝɥ Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
Friends forevermore
#4079: Jul 3rd 2021 at 7:14:12 PM

[up] I don't think that qualifies. At best it's Similarly Named Works... except one is an episode and the other is an outright show.

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#4080: Jul 3rd 2021 at 7:26:21 PM

This is on Robots:

  • "Funny Aneurysm" Moment: That one scene where Fender's arms fall off becomes less funny when 9 years after the movie was released, Robin Williams, who voiced Fender, committed suicide by slitting his wrists.

mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#4081: Jul 3rd 2021 at 7:48:59 PM

[up]If his hands fell off, maybe, but arms? Too much of a stretch.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#4082: Jul 4th 2021 at 8:31:05 AM

Bringing up the following examples from Wolverine and the X-Men (2009):

  • Hilarious in Hindsight:
    • The idea that the Phoenix Force could be controlled by splitting it among five people. It didn't work out in Avengers vs. X-Men either.
    • When Wolverine finally shows up in the Sentinel ruled future he's accompanied by four X-23 clones. Years later, X-23 would take the name Wolverine and her solo book's first story arc would be focused on four clones of her, one of which would become a fan favourite X-Man in her own right.

Edited by Anddrix on Jul 6th 2021 at 3:12:06 PM

fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#4083: Jul 4th 2021 at 1:53:56 PM

This is on The Amazing World Of Gumball S 5 E 11 The Copycats:

"Funny Aneurysm" Moment: While it won't ruin the jokes, they might be perceived differently since the Chinese government expanded on their child policy in May of 2021, allowing families to have three children.

mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#4084: Jul 4th 2021 at 2:06:44 PM

I think that's referring to a joke about how the Chinese goat family doesn't have an Anais parallel due to the one child policy. I think that better fits something else but IDK what it would be.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
MatthewLMayfield What, me worry? from wherever he damn well pleases (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
What, me worry?
#4086: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:18:36 PM

Found all these on Luigi's Mansion 3

  • Hilarious in Hindsight:
    • Luigi's Mansion 3 is not the first Mario-series game to take place in a Hotel.
    • Toads could be teleported back to Gadd's laboratory in Dark Moon, but Luigi can get around himself this way in this game, as shown off during Treehouse Live Day 1. His experimentation brings something else to mind, however...
    • This isn't the first game where you fight your way up a scary supernatural tower. Both games' climaxes even take place on the roof of said towers!
    • This Peach-centric fan parody of The Ring, titled The Pipe, has become this thanks to one of Morty's films being a parody of said film.
    • This fan comic done in the style of Hotel Mario shows E. Gadd being present with Luigi. In a bit of dark irony, he's actually been captured himself early in the actual game and is the first person you save!
    • The second phase of Amadeus Wolfgeist’s boss fight involves him possessing his piano out of anger. Guess you could say he turned the ordinary instrument into a "mad piano".
    • This is the third major installment of a series about capturing your enemies with the help of technology provided by a scientist, and a new villain teams up with the recurring main one. Sounds a little like Ape Escape, eh?

Literally all of these aren't only reaches (saying it's similar to all these games) but they're not even hindsight as al of these things came out before Luigi's Mansion 3. Now they're really play loose and fast with these connections, aren't they?

WoodKnapp94 Since: May, 2020
#4087: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:23:22 PM

[up]I'm pretty sure that if an example starts with "This isn't the first X", then it's not a good example. If any of those are valid, they should be moved to whatever work came first, although I don't think any of them are.

fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#4088: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:25:58 PM

This is on Veggie Tales Episode 17 The Star Of Christmas

  • Hilarious in Hindsight: The episode’s message about not turning the simple story of Christmas into a big spectacle predicts the creation of The Star, which did exactly that by using celebrity voices, a trendy pop star soundtrack, and gags that reek of desperation to be relevant.

themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
PurpleEyedGuma Since: Apr, 2020
#4090: Jul 4th 2021 at 6:29:14 PM

[up][up] A stretch and complaining.

There’s also this right above:

  • Harsher in Hindsight: Cavis believing that "it isn't enough to just have a great story anymore", that you also need to "wow" the audience with a "spectacle" of a show using bright lights and flashy imagery. This becomes a bit harder to stomach after Big Idea's fate was sealed when they tried to turn Jonah into a feature film as opposed to a slightly longer episode (there were other factors too, but this was a major one).

Not only was this the first episode released after Jonah, it’s also a stretch. Cutlisting, as they’re the only two examples.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jul 4th 2021 at 9:29:20 AM

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#4091: Jul 4th 2021 at 10:23:16 PM

[up][up][up][up]That kind of phrasing plagues Super Sentai pages, not just Hindsight entries, but Mythology Gag and Older Than They Think entries as well. I've considered making a cleanup, except I've never seen an episode of Super Sentai in full.

maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#4092: Jul 6th 2021 at 12:10:48 PM

I think anything that starts with "This isn't the first time..." or similar should be cut instantly. And entries like "if you find out this fact after watching."

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017
#4093: Jul 7th 2021 at 7:46:43 AM

Bringing up these Harsher examples from Avengers: Infinity War:

  • Thor bitterly says that there doesn't seem to be anything more that can be taken from him. His next film Love and Thunder proves him wrong as it adapts the comic story about Jane getting cancer. Love and Thunder has not been released yet, so we know nothing about Jane's fate.
  • When Thor's group arrive on Nidavellir to forge Stormbringer, they meet King Eitri (played by Peter Dinklage), the Sole Survivor of the dwarves after Thanos'  attack on the planet. By the final episode of Game of Thrones, Tyrion Lannister (also played by Dinklage) ends up being the last surviving member of his entire family line. Not sure about this one.
  • Shuri's moment where she's portrayed as being smarter than Bruce, which got mild accusations of Character Shilling for her. It's a little uncomfortable in light of Letitia Wright destroying her reputation in 2020 after sharing an anti-vaccine video during the height of the COVID-19 Pandemic and having to delete all social media as a result of the backlash. Barely any connection between the two events

MurlocAggroB from the second-most ridiculous province of Canada Since: May, 2015
#4094: Jul 7th 2021 at 8:37:12 AM

[up] Cut them all. Second one is tangentially related at best, considering it's a family line vs. a species.

Unicorndance Logic Girl from Thames, N.Z. Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Logic Girl
#4095: Jul 8th 2021 at 12:30:21 AM

On AlternativeJokeInterpretation.The Simpsons, the chicken pox party from "Milhouse of Sand and Fog" is potholed to Harsher in Hindsight.

Side note, why is "Funny Aneurysm" Moment listed, despite not having "in hindsight" in the title?

For every low there is a high.
Delibirda from Splatsville Since: Sep, 2020 Relationship Status: I wanna be your dog
#4096: Jul 8th 2021 at 12:34:31 AM

Cuz it's a hindsight trope.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#4097: Jul 8th 2021 at 12:51:03 AM

Hilarious in Hindsight and Harsher in Hindsight were originally called Reverse Funny Aneurysm and Unfunny Aneurysm, respectively.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#4098: Jul 8th 2021 at 6:12:05 PM

Bringing up the following example from Jem and the Holograms (2015):

  • Harsher in Hindsight: The film's plot involves a record label mismanaging their talent, while also featuring said corrupt manager approaching Kesha in The Stinger. The latter's revelations that her early 2010s Hard-Drinking Party Girl image was manufactured by an abusive producer, and the ensuing legal battle have a sad parallel to what Jem might have faced under Erica's management.

mightymewtron Angry babby from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#4099: Jul 8th 2021 at 6:45:55 PM

It'd work better if Kesha's role wasn't like, sixty seconds long. Is this a joke people make offsite about the scene?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
callmeamuffin ❀ Mint, Nuts, and Waffle ❀ from the kitchen (Trinitroper) Relationship Status: Thinkin' about you, muffin
❀ Mint, Nuts, and Waffle ❀
#4100: Jul 10th 2021 at 3:11:34 PM

Found this on YMMV.KMFDM:

  • Hilarious in Hindsight:
    • Adventure Time fans may get a kick out of the use of a balloon as an instrument on "Rebels in Kontrol", especially since WTF?! was released only a few months before "Marceline's Closet."

I'm pretty sure the use of a balloon as an instrument existed before that. That Cadbury ad...

Edited by callmeamuffin on Jul 10th 2021 at 8:12:33 PM

Come play Character Uplift Game!

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