Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need a crowner vote.
As per Real Life Troping, we never trope unscripted real life sports — so sports tropes where RL examples would only apply to those scenarios don't need a crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by Mrph1 on May 13th 2024 at 9:30:24 AM
like, there's no problem, but it objectively breaks multiple NRLEP standards: morality judgment, ROCEJ, narrative trope, probably too common as well.
we could leave well enough alone, but if it was crownered i would vote yes.
Gotcha. There's bigger fish to fry.
Pretty much sums my thoughts on it.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Sep 8th 2022 at 3:59:16 AM
such as: looks like Killer Rabbit, Please Wake Up, and I Just Shot Marvin in the Face will have to be extended?
Just to be safe, we can check those after a few days.
Re: Big Ol' Eyebrows
Added to Wick Check Project. Due to TRS queue backlog, we can still decide the fate of the RL section here.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope ReportLooking at BigOlEyebrows.Real Life, pretty much every example is ZCE, most just list a person's name and leave it at that, the rest are "Celebrity Bob has these".
If we cut all those examples, would there even be a page left?
Edited by laserviking42 on Sep 8th 2022 at 5:47:35 AM
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose meCurrent cue:
Next crowner (which if we hold off on the ones you just added can start on the 9th) is looking like:
1. It Can't Be Helped (dialogue trope and thus too common, attracting ROCEJ violations and complaining) we missed this one a while ago!
2. All Love Is Unrequited (narrative trope, technically not possible that all love is unrequited, attracting misuse of the "you've probably had this happen to you before" variety)
3. Missing Episode (narrative trope as RL doesn't have "episodes", attracting misuse)
4. Wham Shot (narrative trope, related to the NRLEP Wham Episode and Wham Line)
5. Creepy Good (morality trope)
6. Evil Brunette Twin (^)
7. Face of a Thug (^^)
8. Bad Humor Truck (^^^)
9. Reformed, but Rejected (morality, impossible in the same way 0% Approval Rating is impossible)
10. Can't You Read the Sign? (narrative trope, "signs being posted for important reasons" is too common, attracting misuse as "wacky signs" is not this trope)
11. Mum Looks Like a Sister (attractiveness trope, somewhat gossipy)
12. Banana Republic (national stereotype, Laconic insists that the trope is only for fictional countries, related to NRLEP fictional nations like Ruritania) Note: Under the condition that the page gets a Useful Notes page discussing the real world origins of the trope)
13. Ultimate Job Security (too common)
14. Husky Russkie (national stereotype)
15 & 16: Lastly, we never crownered the The Alleged Car and Crappy Carnival situations, to make them totally NRLEP or to move their sections to Darth Wiki or So Bad, It's Horrible or leave them as they are.
17: Pariah Prisoner (It did get a cleanup but there's still an arguement to make that it's too common and a little gossipy.)
18: Badass Boast (too common)
19: Became Their Own Antithesis (attracting ROCEJ and natter misuse, maybe too common?)
20: World's Most Beautiful Woman (sex trope, gossipy)
21: Red Is Heroic (morality trope)
22: Big Ol' Eyebrows (too common personal appearance trope)
23: Anti-Hero (morality, narrative)
You were told we couldn't add Anti-Hero.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure PurenessWe seriously need to SLOW DOWN on alot of these. I just went back through the thread and see little to no discussion on many of those tropes you listed (I see you brought up All Love Is Unrequited, but no one else said a word on it. Meanwhile I see no discussion of Wham Shot).
Two back to back completely full crowners means we are moving way too quickly on this. You are crownering items that already got a cleanup, you are crownering items that have no RL section and it's just way too much.
Clear the list, we can rebuild it after discussion.
EDIT: I don't see discussion on the following from that list:
On these, it was mentioned once, but never discussed
Also to note:
- Pariah Prisoner - Went through a cleanup already, and was specifically said to be okay now, but for some reason you want it on the next crowner
- Missing Episode - Someone proposed a cleanup, but it's on the crowner instead.
- Anti-Hero - Has no RL section.
Edited by laserviking42 on Sep 8th 2022 at 6:24:39 AM
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose meslowing down and discussing things would be an acceptable way of reducing the likelihood of building up a backlog.
Steel Ear Drums is impossible in real life and the Real Life folder is full of aversions.
- Gunners in the British Army are issued ear defenders to protect from the sound of the chonking big gun going off when you're stood right next to it - but they make it hard to hear orders, so they generally only cover one ear permanently during fire missions.
- Actor Tim Barlow, while serving in the British Army, was left profoundly deaf from firing a high-powered rifle.
- Modern earplugs that can allow different amounts of sound into the ear via switches are issued for 21st century US ground troops (and presumably others). However, many soldiers prefer to leave them out and risk eardrum damage if it means a better chance of hearing something that happens to be both quiet and vital to his or her survival, not to mention it's one less piece of kit to hassle with in a warzone. Colonel Kathy Gates, audiology consultant to the US Army surgeon general, stated in an Army Times article that soldiers who wear the issued earplugs properly are protected from most hearing damage.
- The USMC experimented with issuing every single Marine a suppressor in 2016, even on the heavy machine guns. The result was drastically improved communication.
- The Spokane, Washington Police Department suppressed all of its rifles in 2016, noting that the suppressors were cheaper than paying out disability claims for hearing loss.
- Range Safety Officers, who spend their most of their entire workday on the firing range keeping an eye on things, often play it very safe by wearing both earplugs and earmuffs.
- Orchestras:
- In orchestras, players who sit in front of the trumpet section are issued earplugs because if you sit in front of any decent trumpeter when the music gets loud and/or intense, you face the very real threat of having your eardrums ruptured.
- Some orchestras will put pieces of plexiglass between the brass players (especially trumpets and French horns) and those who sit in front of them. In a decent concert hall, it will make no difference to the sound in the audience, but it can help keep your bassoonist from being deafened when the horns play "Bells Up."
- William Shatner suffers from tinnitus because of standing too close to explosions going off on Star Trek, as did the late Leonard Nimoy and DeForest Kelley. The last specifically from the FX explosions at the beginning of "Arena".
- Danny Elfman suffers similarly from hearing loss due to his days in Oingo Boingo.
- Many rock and roll musicians, especially from the days before it was common practice to include earplugs. Special mention though to Pete Townsend of The Who, who is now nearly completely deaf as a result of being too close to Keith Moon's drumkit when he blew it up, and Roger Daltrey says that his and Pete's respective hearing losses began in opposite ears because they were facing each other at the time it exploded. And all that guitar as well...
- This is the reason that drummers and guitarists generally wear some kind of ear protection while practicing or rehearsing (and during modern studio recording which isn't being videotaped/recorded, a commonly used trick is the aforementioned switch earplugs or to wear earmuffs that are combined with headphones — that reduce the sound allowed in to a non-damaging level — IF the band is rich enough to afford either, which a lot of starting bands aren't). The only problem is that none of these tricks (short of the earplugs, for a drummer who isn't very visible) work onstage and in recorded studio lives, meaning that while some hearing damage is lessened (because it is cumulative, and every little bit you can reduce helps) most hard rock / heavy metal musicians will end up with some by their 40s or 50s unless they take long breaks or are just very, very lucky. Singers are the worst affected because they usually can't wear ear protection even while practicing or rehearsing and their own voice can even do the damage (as with Kyo of Dir en grey, who ruptured an eardrum with his own screams). Bassists are next, as they generally can't wear ear protection during rehearsal since they have to keep time with the drummer — which also puts them closest to the loudest and most likely to cause said damage part of your average band short of standing directly in front of a guitar amp or a particularly loud screamer's face.
- A real-life aversion of this can be seen with astute observation while attending an air-show. When the military jets do their low and fast flyovers, one will notice children in the audience often cover their ears. Unlike the adults, who by that point have sustained enough cumulative hearing loss that the sound does not hurt their ears. Thanks, loud music.
- Also at race tracks, especially the "minor-league"note tracks where you're only a few yards from the track. Those cars are loud. AC/DC frontman Brian Johnson had to quit a tour because driving race cars without earplugs threatened him to go deaf.
- The key is not just in the loudness but the spectrum. Hearing degenerates with age in any case, and older ears do not pick up the higher frequencies at all. The kids, who have the full range, probably absorb more energy and/or are hearing parts of the engine's "scream" that the adults don't. It's also the reason why children are better at hearing bats in their caves; the squeaks are mostly well outside the range of human hearing, but the bats' lower end of emission overlaps better with children's upper range of reception.
- Locomotives in the U.S. use loud air horns which most places require engineers to blow when they go over crossings as well as in emergency situations. While most modern horns are mounted toward the middle of the locomotive, in the past, they were mounted right above the cab. Since most cabs lacked air conditioning, the windows were left open. Naturally, a lot of old engineers have at least some degree of hearing loss. Nowadays, cabs are insulated and air-conditioned. Hearing protection is also mandatory when the cab window is open. As with jet aircraft, you'll often notice that it's children who cover their ears when a train blows its horn.
- Averted harshly when Krakatoa erupted in the late 19th century. The eardrums of sailors as far as 40 miles away were ruptured outright, and the sound note persisted as far as Perth, Western Australia where it was mistaken for offshore cannon fire.
I don't normally bring up pages here...
...But NightmareFace.Real Life, from the skim I took, seems to be mostly complaining or gossiping about the appearances of real-life people. I saw Joseph Merrick referenced, which seems incredibly fucked considering what that poor man went through, and the example I cleaned for Uncanny Valley was a "recent picture" of Newt Gingrich's wife.
Like... this feels very toxic.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure PurenessAre we really making fun of Merrick in one of these entries. That feels really mean.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Okay, it's actually pretty respectful at the tradeoff of being a massive ZCE that only talks about what his life was like and doesn't actually get into the trope... which is less icky but from an example-writing standpoint is still just as unhelpful:
- Joseph Merrick. You might know him as "The Elephant Man". Tragically, he was treated as a freak and exploited by freakshow owners and doctors despite simply being born with a terrible illness. Once Dr. Treves found him, he was admitted to a hospital and lived quite a comfortable life there, was treated with respect by the public (due to freak shows and the people who attended or ran them rapidly being seen as disgusting and immoral) and had lots of friends, including Princess Alexandra of Wales.
This whole thing just proves that this trope is a battle between "mocking people" and "being overly cautious at the expense of anything resembling context", and it's like... why should we have a RL section for a trope like this if people can't do it responsibly while following the rules?
Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 9th 2022 at 5:27:52 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Purenessto crownering/cutting Nightmare Face's RL section. I also fear having links to graphic pics is not a good idea.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper WallCalling the following for NRLEP:
- No Pregger Sex
- Celibate Hero
- Elves vs. Dwarves
- Rules of the Road
- Sadist Teacher
- Lantern Jaw of Justice
- Dysfunctional Family
- There Should Be a Law
- False Dichotomy
- Everything Is An I Pod In The Future
- Silly Reason for War
- Forehead of Doom
The following need a couple more days:
Killer Rabbit was added a day after these, so it's too soon to call it either way.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 9th 2022 at 6:09:51 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.again, requesting discussion on why Please Wake Up and I Just Shot Marvin in the Face shouldn't be NRLEP.
Just in case someone says that Bad Humor Truck and Face of a Thug have no RL section, I removed them before I knew that tropes had to be discussed on this forum before being approved for NRLEP. Also, Evil Brunette Twin never had RLEs.
Edited by Mechanicalman450 on Sep 9th 2022 at 6:29:35 PM
I think we should crowner Nightmare Face for the same reasons we cut RL for Body Horror
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?I agree that Nightmare Face should not have RLEs because I feel like it's too controversial, similarly to Body Horror. I believe RLEs could potentially offend people in regards to their facial features, and I believe we should not be an offensive site.
Edited by Mechanicalman450 on Sep 9th 2022 at 5:03:05 PM
Pariah Prisoner still has that super sensationalist entry that was supposed to be toned down.
Which one is it? All of them seem more or less objective to me.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Purenessthe James Eagan Holmes one includes a lot of ultimately irrelevant information and a lot of Bold Inflation.
That's the one I assumed, though it seemed ok to me, maybe a bit wordy and the bold inflation can be cut but it didn't seem outright "sensationalist".
I mean by all means let's rewrite it, things just didn't immediately stand out to me. At the very least I don't see a lot in the way of "irrelevant" information (the note can go and the last sentence can go, but most of it seems topical otherwise). A massive run on sentence, on the other hand...
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure PurenessForehead of Doom was incorrectly placed on the Morality Tropes page when it is not about morality.
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- The item have been on the crowne for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
Under the current rules we don't fix a problem that doesn't exist.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me