Is this an example?

Sacred Cow means a work has such a strong fandom, saying anything negative about it or finding flaws would spark an immediate Flame War.

Odyssey and BOTW are well regarded, but I've seen more people who have problems with them and explained why without getting massively downvoted. So I don't think they're on that high level like other examples that indeed have With Us or Against Us audience.

Edited by Amonimus on Mar 25th 2022 at 4:57:51 PM

Given that it has faced more vocal criticism after its "Honeymoon phase" wore off (though certainly not enough to be thought of as "one of the weakest 3D Mario games") I also don't think it counts. For me, Sacred Cow has to be for things so protected that everyone will give you the evil eye if you go against the consensus. But ever since that Joseph Anderson video, criticizing Mario Odyssey isn't something fans will get up in arms over.

Edited by harryhenry on Mar 26th 2022 at 3:11:15 AM

Hmm, yeah, I see what you mean. Personally speaking, I was leaning in that direction myself, I just thought it'd be good to have a clearer consensus on the matter given that the older of the two queries appeared to lean in favor of keeping it up (and I myself wasn't sure whether or not the existing criticisms were still limited to a Vocal Minority). Guess in that case it's just Right for the Wrong Reasons.

Anyone else have further thoughts on the matter or is that pretty much the gist of it?

Edited by bowserbros on Mar 25th 2022 at 7:35:19 AM

What's the threshold number to make a level qualify for Boss Bonanza, if any? This may be a weird question to ask in this thread, but it's about some general examples I added to the aforementioned page.

I don't think Mario Odyssey qualifies as Sacred Cow, but its removal was for the wrong reasons. It's not regarded as "one of the weakest 3D games", because there isn't really an installment with that status (not even Mario Sunshine, as it was Vindicated by History); and like I mentioned back then in that ATT query, relying on social media like Twitter is ill-advised due to their highly unreliable nature and tendency to favor knee-jerk reactions. It's easier to find less favorable opinions on certain 2D games (such as New Super Mario Bros. 2 or the first Super Mario Land).

More new bosses than old ones, since just reusing old bosses falls under Boss Rush (a Sub-Trope). The criterion I have in mind when adding or editing an example is "a half-plus-one majority favoring new bosses". For example, the endgame of Geist pits you against three bosses fought back to back. All of them are new, as they didn't appear in previous chapters.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Mar 25th 2022 at 1:28:24 PM

Incidentally, I've seen Sacred Cow misused as "work has a defensive fanbase", even if it also has a massive hatedom (eg: The Conversion Bureau example I removed last year).

Edited by NitroIndigo on Mar 26th 2022 at 8:03:46 AM

Re: Miraculous Ladybug (I'm too lazy to count out the number of arrows needed.)

Shadow Moth's goal was to get the Ladybug and Cat Miraculous. He did not. I'd say it isn't a victory for him. At most he basically just weakened the heroes a lot. And maybe buffed himself as well. But I'd say it isn't a victory. Flairmidable on the other hand, seems to have gotten what he wanted since he was after the Peacock Miraculous and he walked away with it, but for all the hints about his motives we still don't really know for sure what his endgame goals are.

I had added a Broken Base entry to Batwoman (2019) about whether viewers actually thought the show was still good (or was ever good), but it has been removed because, essentially "I haven't seen it, therefore it doesn't exist." I've seen the sentiments shared not just on Twitter, but on various reviews on entertainment sites such as AV Club (they don't review Batwoman anymore, but a few commenters bring in their comments on reviews of Legends or Flash) that the show just isn't all that good, partially due to a LOT of behind-the-scenes issues in Seasons 1 and 2. Even the forum thread for the series here has MANY criticisms about the show. Like, maybe I could get rid of the "CW is propping up the show for LGBTQ positive PR" bit since they aren't doing that nearly as much as they did with Supergirl, but of all the Arrowverse shows, Batwoman easily has the biggest division of people who like and dislike the show. Can I re-add it?

Edited by blargen on Mar 26th 2022 at 7:45:23 AM

In the last book of the Dragon Jousters series by Mercedes Lackey, several characters are discussing a prophecy that their resident oracle has just made. At first the prophecy sounds typically cryptic and one character complains about it. Then another character shares a bit of information that the others didn't know, upon which the prophecy turns out to be quite straightforward and easy to figure out.

My question: how exactly does one describe this in an example entry on the work's page? The applicable trope seems to be Prophecy Twist, but is the example a subversion, aversion, defied trope, lampshade, or something else?

I want to check to see if this counts as What Could Have Been for Dragalia Lost.

• Some characters have been teased, but due to the game ending service, they would never see the light of day. Such characters include Atlas (the brother of Promethius, Epimethius, and Menoetius) as well as the leaders of the Rabbit, Dragon, Snake, Sheep, and Dog Clans (faces shown in "Celestial Showdown", with no names given).

I haven't added it yet.

I'll factor her in, too.

Edited by Berrenta on Mar 26th 2022 at 9:05:50 AM

I didn't know that Dragalia Lost was ending service...so much for wanting to get back into playing it in the future.

Anyways, I think that counts as an example since the characters would have been released if there game's service weren't plan to cancel the game's service.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 26th 2022 at 1:19:11 PM

Don't forget Dark Phoenix, sister of Phoenix and Corsaint Phoenix.

This was on the YMMV page for Barely Lethal:

• Spiritual Adaptation: Until the Disney Channel made an official one, this was probably the closest anybody had come to a live-action Kim Possible movie. Both are comedies about a female Teen Superspy who has to pretend to be a high school student. It even had a Disney Channel star, Dove Cameron, playing Liz.

This entry used to be longer, having several sentences arguing that the cast of Barely Lethal were expies of characters from Kim Possible. It was decided that those were shoehorns and the example was trimmed down. Does this even count as an example of Spiritual Adaptation, because the only similarities seem to be that both works involve Teen Superspies?

Sliding Scale of Realistic vs. Fantastic has this in the "Fantastic" category. Is it an example?: Steven Universe is set in a mostly normal world, with the exception of the Gems. However, because the show focuses on a race of creatures that don't exist in real life, it qualifies as fantastic, though definitely leans closely towards unusual.

On The Owl House - Other, this was added twice by different tropers, I deleted the first time it got added.

• Ambiguous Gender: The collector is referred to with masculine pronouns by Phillip, but have a feminine voice.

Story context: the character's face and body shape is completely obscured by a hooded robe and is voiced by a woman. When the collector first showed up, he only has a split-second appearance in front of people who has no idea who he is. It is only on the character's second appearance does anyone who knows who he is talks about him. There is a seven month gap between appearances, and so there are people who has spent those seven months thinking his female voice actor indicates his gender. Note that Ambiguous Gender only got added once the collector got referred to by a pronoun for the first time, and rest of his tropes refer to him with she/her pronouns, which were left untouched.

Edited by Chytus on Mar 26th 2022 at 12:48:11 PM

Crosscast Role and Vocal Dissonance are both possibilities so I don’t think having a feminine voice for a character who is otherwise referred to as as masculine qualifies as AG.

If the character was mistaken for a girl by fans, then it'd be Viewer Gender Confusion.

This entry appears on a recap page: Recap.RWBYV 7 E 5 Sparks

I put it on the discussion page a long time ago, but no-one seems willing to discuss it, and it's just been uncommented by someone who's tried to give it more context. But the new context breaks the Recap rule of not referring to later episodes. The main problem is that, given the trope's description, I'm not sure the entry should ever go on a Recap page because it's about a character arc that shows this character used to have a problem, has now beaten the problem and has become someone who either empathises with (or even helps/supports) other addicts, tries to hide they ever had a problem, or starts preaching about the ills of addiction.

I'm also not sure that just two mentions are enough to prove a character is a Recovered Addict, as opposed to someone who has decided to start trying to recover from addiction. He quits alcohol at the end of Volume 6, but we don't know that until this Volume 7 episode reveals it in a throw-away comment, so it's not even the focus of the conversation. A later V7 episode shows him refuse some alcohol, and then the subject is never raised again. Volume 8 has now ended, but the character spent most of that volume in a prison cell, so it's not like he could have relapsed even if he wanted to.

• Recovered Addict: After spending Volume 6 almost paralytic from his alcohol addiction, a conversation between Qrow and Clover leads Qrow to mention in passing that he's given up drinking. A later episode further shows him flat-out refusing alcohol at a party, reinforcing this.
  Qrow: Until recently, I'd have drank to that.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 27th 2022 at 3:11:02 AM

The Bad Guy Wins can also be used at the end of an episode or season.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheBadGuyWins/LiveActionTV

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheBadGuyWins/WesternAnimation

And Strike Back was a major victory for Hawk Moth.

You know that citing some pages with examples buried somewhere that involve season endings doesn't prove anything, right? Misuse exists everywhere, and nobody'll want to read through just to find the usage you're talking about.

Anyway, at this point the Hawk Moth discussion might be better for the discussion page.

You don't have to search, there are many examples. No misuse.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Recap.MiraculousLadybugS04E26StrikeBackShadowMothsFinalAttackPart2

To prove it's not misuse, you need to look at the trope page for a point of comparison.

Here's another example I want to put in the Space Ponies' entry from My Brave Pony: Starfleet Magic. Since they're considered to be aliens, do you think they qualify as good or bad? How do you properly put the new example in?

(Writing incompetency made the lines a little blurry...)

Not familiar with the work, perhaps you can type up a mock example here, and provide the necessary context, then I could judge if it fits or not.

I'll have to think really hard...

• Vichy Earth: Whenever they arrive at a new planet, they'll either erase their way of life for the sake of protection, or commit genocide if they think all of its members are evil. This is a rare case where these are the protagonists of the story.

I wonder if there are any ways this can be improved?