Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki

And now they just added it as "a meta example" on the main tropes page. This is getting extremely silly.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

I've started to twitch whenever I see "meta-example" added to a page...

~Atlantis 536 can you please consider discussing this to get a consensus instead of desperately trying to shoehorn your viewpoint into anything you can find?

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

From The Amazing Spider-Man (2022):

As the link reveals, this was a joking response to a tweet from Rosenberg:

That feels like creator-to-creator banter to me, as it's in replies not announcements 'to the world' - although the tweets aren't private. Rosenberg jokingly swiped at Wells, then Wells responded.

Wells is not popular with some parts of the fandom right now, which is aggravated by a shock death in a recent story. To me, this reads like an attempt to use those tweets to bash him by portraying them in a misleading context.

Keep or delete?

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 12th 2023 at 3:27:38 PM

i'd say delete, i'm bad at tone but even i can tell the tweets aren't serious

Edited by cocohello on Jun 12th 2023 at 9:57:06 AM

I've cut it and linked to the thread. I was pretty sure it should be cut, anyway - and any troper who wants to reinstate it can always come here to talk about it.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 12th 2023 at 8:53:10 PM

Bringing these up from the YMMV page for Beverly Hills Teens. These sound a bit complainy and are poorly-written.

• Cliché Storm: Though a surprisingly enjoyable one.
• Fan Nickname: First World Problems: The Series on a few forums.

The Cliché Storm entry looks like a ZCE since it doesn't identify any clichés that appear.

The Fan Nickname entry mentions "a few forums" but doesn't specify which forums (most likely animation forums, but I have no way of knowing), leading me to suspect the nickname to have been given by detractors. It could have been given by fans who embrace the "first world problems" aspects, but, again, I have no way of knowing because of how vague the entry is.

Unless there's someone here that's familiar enough with the work to help out, the entries can probably be cut.

Edited by AnotherOnlinePersona on Jun 13th 2023 at 7:39:58 AM

yeah that sounds like a detractor nickname, which is misuse.

Stan GaruKaru for clear skin

I just found this (which was added on May 8, 2018) on the Parental Bonus page:

• Shark Tale is widely considered to be a negative example of this. The plot and many of the jokes so heavily reference classic gangster movies like The Godfather and the works of Martin Scorsese (who plays Sykes), that it fails to create a story kids can actually properly appreciate. It consequently can be seen as a cautionary tale against the perils of this trope, where, by trying so desperately to get in references for people other than your target audience, you risk creating a film that appeals to no target audience at all.

Are we human, or are we dancer?

You can rewrite that to say something along the lines of "Shark Tale references works like The Godfather".

Those later points could be reworked into an Uncertain Audience YMMV entry if the critique of the references to mature cinema leaving the film unmoored from any demographic is common.

From AudienceAlienatingEra.Live Action TV:

Given that the 'era' doesn't include the shows he did on FX (and there's a question as to whether AAE should really apply to a single creator in this way anyway), this feels like misuse for bashing purposes... cut?

There are other arguments for cutting it anyway - there's a five year NREP rule, and although he signed with Netflix in 2018, the first clear example listed is 2020. But the complaining seems the best place to start.

Thanks!

I dunno if this was already brought up in the thread, but the upcoming Disney cartoon Primos received huge backlash on social media from Latin Americans due to being perceived as offensive.

The main complaints include bad grammar ("Oye primos" is poorly conjugated. It is supposed to be "Oigan primos"), the Breaking Bad-esque yellow Mexico filter, and a child character being named Cuquita, which is slang for vagina.

For the record, the creator, Natasha Kline, is Mexican-American and based the show on her childhood, but she still offended a lot of people. The show isn't out yet, but I just want everyone to keep an eye out for complaining on the wiki.

By the way, can I add this an example of Offending the Creator's Own?

We are the best friends, we stand as one. Whatever life may bring, we are never alone.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13327578050A72722200&page=477#comment-11918

Hi I’m the guy that made the inital post on Audience-Alienating Ending for Man of Steel. I had gotten approval from the cleanup thread for that trope because Man of Steel was still standalone enough that it could be taken as its own ending and the complaints towards the ending existed since Day 1. I will admit I went too far with the DCEU bashing, I didn’t mean to I was just trying to echo the sentiment of fans I had heard of. If I rewrote the entry to remove the bashing could it be readded?

No. The Man of Steel example was written like a a knee-jerk response despite coming out years ago and to blame Man of Steel was responsible for the DCEU not doing as well as the MCU is ridiculous. It was DC's rushed attempts at making their own cinematic universe and the the knee-jerk Executive Meddling of Justice League(2017) in response to Batman V Superman that did the DCEU in. Plus TMMV tropes cannot be played with and the example read like it an inversion of Audience-Alienating Ending.

Beware, I live!

You are correct that the issues with Man of Steel the DCEU is cumulative and not a problem with one specific film. But here's the thing, I never brought up the MCU in my initial entry nor did anybody who expanded it afterwards. I was moreso trying to emphasize why Superman killing was a problem as I know not everybody reading the page would be familiar with the comics. I didn't intend for the entry to come across as bashing it just happened. Regardless, I feel Man of Steel is still a valid entry, as brought up on the "Is this an example?" forum when I first proposed the entry for Man of Steel while the film is the first chapter of the DCEU it's still a self-contained story at the end of the day. Had the movie bombed (like Green Lantern (2011) the PLANNED start to the DCEU) then all the issues people have with the film would still exist. Given even a decade later the climax is one of if not the most criticized part of the film I think it qualifies. I even thought of how to rewrite the entry in a more neutral manner.

• The climax of Man of Steel attracted criticism from moviegoers for the blaise destruction put on display throughout the climactic battle. The final battle has Superman and Zod square off in Metropolis, causing billions of dollars of property damage and numerous civilian casualties,^note Zack Snyder estimates that the death total was in the ballpark of 5,000 with Superman making no attempts to mitigate the damages or take the fight elsewhere. The fact Superman was forced to end the battle with lethal means made things look even worse. Besides the usual cries of They Changed It, Now It Sucks! (Superman is famous for his refusal to kill in the comics), Zod allowed far more humans to enter his line of fire throughout the fight, so to have Superman resort to lethal methods to save three people after letting countless get killed by Zod directly or indirectly raised numerous questions. While later installments of the DC Extended Universe would stride to address these criticisms, fans remain divided on how effective those films were at doing this.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Jun 18th 2023 at 9:43:48 AM

From Trivia.One Piece 2023

• Recycled: The Series: The live-action series is yet another adaptation of Eiichiro Oda’s manga

I find this a bit negative and passive aggressive. Any ideas on how to rephrase it?

The Owl House and Coyote Vs Acme are my Roman Empire.

Recycled: the series is one of those trivia items that is a hotbed for complaining. The main article talks about how worse the effects will be and how shows wont be able to afford a proper cast like a movie does. Even when the description acknowledges good examples, it does so with an air of "you probably wont believe this, but..."

And yeah "yet another" makes it sound there are just dozens of One Piece adaptations everywhere. The easiest way to frame it would be to just say that it's an English language live action adaptation of the manga.

Okay, I’ll make that change.

The Owl House and Coyote Vs Acme are my Roman Empire.

[self-thumping because i completely misread that]

Edited by worldwidewoomy on Jun 18th 2023 at 5:58:36 AM

Stan GaruKaru for clear skin

The Chair (2014) spends more time than it needs to discussing how infamous Shane Dawson is and complaining about his fans.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jun 20th 2023 at 10:45:04 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

So regarding my revisited Man of Steel entry? I know somebody hear already said no but I feel people should actually look at what I would put in its place before determining it to be unsalvagable

I think I brought this page up previously, but it didn't go anywhere.

For starters, the last three paragraphs of the description should probably be deleted, since it's practically all complaining, plus reception is not allowed on work pages.

Avatar by Butterscotch Arts. Used under license.

The Scrappy is always going to have some element of fan unhappiness - that's the trope - but this seems to go a bit too far (bold added by me):

• Few fans of Annihilation: Conquest liked Wraith, a new character introduced in a tie-in miniseries. In an arc full of lesser lights and very humanized characters, a motorcycle-riding uber-Space Elf with ill-defined darkness powers and a fantastically wangsty backstory stuck out like a sore thumb. After four issues of fans wondering how a twelve-year-old's fanfiction got shuffled in with the Annihilation scripts, Wraith proceeded to appear only as a supporting character in Conquest itself.

Cut the bold bit?