Discussion DethroningMoment / VideoGames

Should Fire Emblem get its own page? Think there's enough entries (and text) to warrant it.

I was wondering if maybe a new, separate page for moments relating to installments in the Super Mario Bros. franchise might be warranted here now? The amount (as well as length and substance) of entries has well reached that of those dedicated to Pokémon or Mortal Kombat for just two examples, both of which have their own pages already. The entries are already assorted together in a specific area and even ordered by chronological game release date in this main page as is, so I don't think transferring them over to a separate page would be an issue. But what would you say? Would a separate Super Mario Bros. page be warranted here for you, too?

Edited by Ferigeras Hide / Show Replies

So, my moment was deleted and I was't told why- no edit reason given, not to mention no mention of it here that I can find.

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I removed this for contesting another entry:

• The_Taming_Interpreter: I believe that I have an explanation, for Poseidon at least. According to a leak after the third installment of the story, there is a claim that Poseidon only started using a Trident as his weapon as a means to symbolize his patron city, Atlantis, due to the popularity of the weapon in addition to bows. Poseidon is even claimed to have been quoted saying, “I would use my hands if I could.”Why is this significant? It is because as said in the old legends and myths, Poseidon was gifted with a trident as his relic of power from the cyclops’ out of gratitude for the ladders being freed from Tartarus. So in the case of his battle with Kratos, we can speculate that the trident that he was using in his large elemental form wasn’t his ACTUAL trident ( it’s also been stated that the trident that Kratos claims during the Challenge Of Poseidon also wasn’t the real thing despite it’s name). Keep in mind that Hades at least had his own relic (Helm Of Darkness) when he battled Kratos, while Zeus lost the Blade Of Olympus to Kratos when the ladder defeated him after killing the Sisters Of Fate. So perhaps if Poseidon had his real trident for the battle, he would have perhaps posed a larger threat to Kratos. Not only that, but Poseidon was even infected with the evils of Pandora’s Box as well, and as mentioned in his letter to his Princess, it is also likely that he wasn’t exactly himself by the time he and his nephew were duking it out. Hope that this helps!

Regarding the recently deleted moment to Drawn To Life 2: I'm sorry if it seemed I was bashing the entire work rather than just the ending. I still think it (the ending, that is) qualifies, but you're allowed to reword the entry so the confusion's no longer there.

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I removed this entry because it covers the entire game rather than a single moment.

• Ry Rodrigo: While Street Fighter V was, by no means, a terrible game, it still says a lot that I consider it the low point of the series, for several reasons. For starters, Capcom charging the full retail price of $60 for a bare-bones presentation in February annoyed me a lot, since rival game Mortal Kombat X gave you a healthy roster, an arcade mode and a fleshed out story mode, all of which are absent in the debut of Street Fighter V. And when Capcom finally got around to creating a Story Mode? It was the most stupidly written nonsense I have ever seen, the biggest sticking point would be that the most prominent terrorist organization in the Street Fighter world is invaded by a bunch of eccentric yahoos in costumes no less than three times in the story, and not once does Bison do more than send five unarmed guards to fight them in hand-to-hand combat. Did it ever not occur to him to, I don't know....give his soldiers guns? Oh sure, Avrile carries guns, but she stupidly empties her clip into Birdie's obviously bulletproof chains. And you would think that Shadaloo, moving forward with their doomsday device, would have stationed at least a hundred armed guards in the main control room to make sure nothing goes wrong, right? Surprise! A sweeping shot shows it completely empty, allowing for Rashid to cripple it at a crucial time with the help of a six year old girl! Did it not ever occur to F.A.N.G. (himself a flipping moron) to install a fail-safe or a backup that wouldn't be thwarted by a pre-schooler? All of this makes me believe that Bison gave up on world domination ages ago, but just carried out the Dark Moon project just to screw with everyone. Fighting game wise, the game also makes the very odd decision of making several characters play nothing like how they used to in the other games unless they used the V-Trigger......so why in the hell am I activating a super mode to get back moves my character should have by default? Juri is the worst offender of this, nearly all of her trademark moves are gone. She might as well not be in the game at all if that was the case! Also, one last thing - Capcom drew me in with the fanservice (yes, I'll admit that freely) and then proceeded to take it all away by getting rid of the jiggle physics, nipple details and covering up Juri's costume. Nice going, Crapcom. This entry in the series caused your company's flagship fighting game to de-evolve from a staple in tournaments to a laughingstock.

Edited by DukeNukem4ever

• JadedStreak: I've never wanted to complain about a Sonic game before, as I really prefer to see the positive sides of video games, but one game that got me riled up was Sonic Mania. For this game, almost nothing seemed to have been done right. First of all, it was based entirely on a bunch of games which have aged poorly, which is very much the worst way to make a successful game. The controls were incredibly stiff. The main method was simply "push in a direction and you win" and the levels were unbelievably short to complete - even shorter than Forces, believe it or not. You could only go in a small amount of certain directions, which was a far cry from the exploration you were able to do in various 3D Sonic games. It used a soundtrack based off New Jack Swing, a music genre that is generally considered to be Deader Than Disco. The sprites and level designs themselves were of very low quality, and there were tons of glitches that were present in the game, with Padoga West having patched none of them. It also had too much of a soft, kitschy feel to it, which was a reverse of the usual dark and edgy style of earlier games (though I will admit that this kinda started before Mania). And yet, despite all of this, everybody seems to love it, and I really don't understand why. Mania was obviously just trying to cash in on the reboot trend of the new tens, and it is, in my opinion, probably one of the worst Sonic games of all time (I won't say it's as bad as Rise of Lyric, but it is pretty terrible), and it just fully shows how bad a Sonic game can be if the fans are making the game. I now want Christian Whitehead and his crew to leave the blue blur alone, and let Sonic Team, the veterans who actually know how to make a good Sonic game, make the games from now on, because if Whitehead keeps on making the games, the reputation of the franchise will become even worse than it already is.

Removed this moment for being about the entire game and not one moment

I'm looking at the Project X Zone 2 D Mo S...either you have a problem with characters' absences, or you have a problem with the music they picked for Ingrid. I'd say you should pick one or the other...but I feel that choice isn't mine.

• Users/jmac9345: Don't get me wrong, I love Rare Replay. It's an incredibly solid package showcasing some great games from a fantastic developer. On top of that, despite odd controls, I also enjoyed Snake Rattle 'n' Roll as a fun, inventive isometric platformer. However, my dethroning moment is That One Level, Level 11. Here, you fight an Ice Foot on the moon while meteors hurdle down at you. Do not be fooled by the You Tube videos showing people owning this monsters ass! It's incredibly Nintendo Hard, and for all the wrong reasons. Instead of enemies having a certain amount of health, like in most platformers, the foot, as with all enemies in the game, regains health when you stop attacking it. It's just a sign of bad beta testing, kind of like Video Game/Battletoads. But at least in that game, as bullshit challenging as most stages were, enemies didn't regain health, and the final boss was fairly easy. It was bad enough in an earlier level, where an enemy was placed above you and you had to jump and fail at defeating it because it regained health, but again, at least there you could take a hit or two. If the final boss actually had a health meter instead of this broken health system, I think a lot more people would be able to finish the boss. Instead, it just adds a level of Fake Difficulty that will take hours, if not days to complete.

Removed for being gameplay-related.

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• Tempest Knight: A few years ago, RIFT was my favourite MMO. But one incredibly asinine decision by its creators ultimately ruined the experience for me. The game had just gone free-to-play, but the creators assured us that they would not go pay-to-win — they said that the store would not give out anything more powerful than 5-man dungeon gear. All was well...until the next festival. One of the festival rewards was a ring...that was better than what could be obtained in one of the 20-man raids. An item gotten via festivals...that was better than what you could get from raiding. The worst part of this was that it would be nearly impossible to get this ring via actual festival gameplay...but if you used the store, you could get it easily! Who thought this was a good idea? This left me so frustrated and angry that it led to a chain of events that ended with me leaving the game for good. Thanks for nothing, Trion.

Removed for being an example of Executive Meddling.

Deleted an old DMOS. It was even more poorly thought out than my usual fare, and I came to regret ever typing it.

Hello, I would like to post my DMOS in the video game section. Tell me what you think of my DMOS before I start posting it:

• Ecclytennysmithylove: My DMOS would have to be the death of Emma Emmerich in Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. After Emma dies, Otacon decided to leave her corpse on the Big Shell, which is going to flood. ……what? I’m sorry, Otacon, but what you just said sounded like you don’t care for your sister. Leaving your dead sister in the offshore facility that’s going to be flooded does not solve the problem. A better solution would be to bring your dead sister safely to your hometown and give her a proper burial. Even worse, neither Snake nor Raiden called out on Otacon to make him change his mind. Although the security camera did not show Emma's corpse when the flooding happened, I had a hard time falling asleep because I was completely shocked and couldn’t believe how uncaring Otacon was. However, I have high hopes that maybe Emma will be Spared by the Adaptation if, by chance, the game gets adapted into a film.

Edited by 130.156.1.78 "I told you PCs were unreliable." Darwin, The Amazing World of Gumball Hide / Show Replies

Am I the only one who feels that the Mega Man Zero entry is less an example of this and more an example of the original poster bashing on the series? I mean, he brings up points that were never part of the game series at all. Like "Dr. Wily is the real hero"? How the hell does that make sense? At no point in the game does it ever suggest that Wily is the hero of the series, even if his creation is the hero of his self-titled series. In fact, Zero acts completely differently to what Wily intended him for, so this makes even less sense.

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• Shadow200: Asuras Wrath, basically the point were Capcom decided that The Almighty Dollar was more important to them than their dwindling fanbase given how they've been acting and treating them over the years. Let's say you go to a Football game, tickets normally cost a lot but hey your there right? But then at halftime they tell you you gotta pay more money to see the reminder of the game. Reluctantly you do so. Then at the near end of the game with the score tied and the clock ticking down they tell you you have to pay even more money just to see who wins. If this happened in real life fans would be ticked off over it. That's the way I feel about how Capcom screwed over their fanbase when they release their Downloadable Content and over half a game on it was there including the Ending but also several plotholes that fleshed out the characters more. You expect when you first beat the game its a Sequel Hook right? But nope, instead they make you pay to find out just how it will all end. Capcom can calmly pucker their lips and kiss my ass cause I will no longer buy anything of theirs with the way they have treated me and millions of fans worldwide.

I don't want to remove this, as it looks like you might have an honest-to-goodness gripe, but I'm not certain what specific thing you're objecting to. It could stand to be cut down a bit.

This topic needs another cleanup. Most of these "examples" are INCREDIBLY whiny. The whole thing just reads as a bunch of antisocial geeks whinging over small, insignificant plot points due to the games they're playing not going the exact same way as they want them to.

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I finally put an entry on this list. I may be jumping the gun a bit, but I just felt like bringing something up. Something that didn't make me happy at all.

Edited by SamMax

The Mass Effect 3 entries need to be cleaned up. Having heard of problems in the past, I'm going to post here first as to why the posts should be removed.

L Dragon 2: Your choices determine whether you even get three options in the end, and determine the storyline of the game and whether you can get the best resolutions.

atrasicarius: This claim is, to put it bluntly, completely and utterly ignorant. Just look at this link, which describes how each of the endings vary: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Priority:_Earth#Aftermath

Dr Zulu 2010: You're not forced to agree with the Catalyst. Nothing stops you from choosing the option it explicitly condemns, Destroy. Nothing indicates that Shepard agrees with the Catalyst.

Pikachu 4 Prezident: Harbinger appears in the ending, utterly overwhelming the assault team. To say it is absent is false.

Crazy Rabbits: It's made quite clear throughout the entire series, especially the third game, that the Reapers are nigh-impossible to defeat in conventional warfare. Even if you have a high EMS, the best the fleets can do is hold their own.

Ultimately, the majority of the complaints are complete misconceptions if not deliberate mistruths. A lot of it needs to be cut down.

I think I might have validated the Reapers destroying civilisation. I was going to place it in the DMOS page right away, but I was worried that my logic was flawed. Here's what my submission was going to be:

• Kubu: There's also a more logical reason why the Reapers are destroying civilization over and over again. They could be preventing the galaxy's resources from being completely exhausted. The larger a civilization gets, the more space it needs. If civilization grew too large, it would eventually need more space than the galaxy can provide. It would cause necessary resources to grow rarer and rarer until races start wars over them just to stay alive. Soon, the galaxy is a lifeless husk without a future. But with Reaper defence, the decay is stopped before it starts. See that, Bioware? Doesn't that make more sense than "saving you from your own destruction by destroying you ourselves?"

So let me get this straight: The Force Unleashed DLC letting you kill Ewoks and everyone else on Endor being a villain defiles the franchise and strokes the creator's ego now? Unless I'm wrong, killing people are just some standards for games when they are letting you be a villain. Of course, as I never played this DLC (I've yet to gain access to even look at it), I don't know. Could someone clarify, please?

Edited by SamMax Hide / Show Replies

I say we delete this from the Mortal Kombat 2011 entry; this just smacks of "I don't like this ending therefore DMOS!".

• Anarchy Balsac: Baraka's Arcade Ladder Ending. It's the only ending where Shao Kahn doesn't actually die, but rather, it was Shang Tsung pretending to be Shao Kahn. Worse, the tarkatans, a race of savage Jerk Asses are elevated in Kahn's ranks because of this. Sure the Shokans and centaurs aren't much better, but they're not as bad as the tarkatans. It even surpasses Cyber-Sub-zero's Ladder ending in its suckage.

A scenario where the villains gain more power because one of the villains won? Really! You don't say! What did you think was going to happen? By that logic, why don't we add the endings for Sektor (he takes control of the Lin Kuei), Noob (he takes over the underworld and gains more power) and Kano (he essentially becomes Skynet and is poised to take over the world) while we're at it?

I'm fairly certain that Minecraft DMOS at the top of the page doesn't fit here.

Can we throw something for Mess Effect 3 ending...

See, Joker has to repopulate the human race. However, Joker has a god damned GENETIC DEFECT that causes brittle bones. I do not see a very bright future for humanity...

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So I just get a PM from Genocide Heart with him complaining about how I removed his contesting of an entry when he claims that there are several others exactly like his.

If I recall, though, most of them actually have their own moments and the least that can be done is removing the contesting part. Can something be done about this?

People REALLY want to pretend that Samus never asked Adam "Then why did you shoot me?!" just to strengthen their argument, huh?

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Things that were cut from the page when it was being brought into line with the new guidelines:

• Resident Evil as a series is full of them. In Code: Veronica, Steve Burnside gets one immediately after a Crowning Moment Of Awesome - after diving through a window and stylishly wasting an enemy about to kill the player, he reverts to his whiny self, crowing "Oh yeah, that felt good!"
• Another Dethroning Moment was Phoenix Wright's Character Derailment. Particularly when he had no qualms inflicting on a newbie what nearly drove his best friend to suicide.
• Grandia II was a by-the-numbers JRPG with a pretty cool combat system. The story and voice-acting was not good, though. And the worst part is when the hero (I refuse to remember his name) is in some sort of coma (don't remember why) and angelic female sidekick (ditto for her name) cries out in such over-the-top despair, the best thing to do is what you've wondered about doing for the entire game, which is to mute it. How narmy was that? Well, it made me realise that there is far, far worse voice acting out there than Final Fantasy X. In fact, this moment had me liking the latter game all the more in comparison.
  • Now, from a non-hater: by the end of the game, Elena decides that she can't stand having Millenia inside of her, because, allegedly, she's EEEEEVILL, despite the fact that, other than making a thunder fall over a church (not damaging it, apparently), she didn't do anything really (hell, she saved a little girl's life). Okay, it was because of petty jealousy, that is a good reason for murder. Then the evil pope guy says he'll kill Millenia... blah blah, plot plot, the evil pope guy reveals that he will ressurrect the Evil God of Doom (tm) to terminate humanity, and therefore won't kill Millenia (just extract her from Elena's body and upgrade her to a genocidal God). And what does Elena do after hearing that? "Oh well, the world will be destroyed, but at least I'll get rid of my rival". WHAT. THE FUCK. She doesn't even TRY to run away from the clearly evil guy. She doesn't even resist. I don't know ANYONE who didn't want to torture her painfully after that scene.
• The Ace Attorney series is awesome, and it's a testament to the overwhelming awesomeness of the third game that the resolution of the Mask DeMasque case couldn't ruin it the game. Phoenix gets an acquittal for unrepentant thief (with no motive more noble than keeping his high-maintenance wife happy without getting an actual job), and thanks to the double-jeopardy clause he's able to confess to stealing millions of dollars worth of valuables and artifacts without penalty. In the epilogue, it's shown that said thief goes on to start his own security company...with a side business selling the details of his own defenses to burglars. And this is the guy I just worked my ass off to save? What?
  • Speaking of 3-2 - The ending in which Pearl, mistaking Phoenix blushing from Desiree Delite as "having an affair", slaps Phoenix into oblivion. It's understandable that she's a little kid that doesn't understand that Phoenix/Desiree were just talking, but that was just horrible. Also, why is it nobody helps Phoenix out while he's getting slapped? Even if he is a Butt-Monkey...
• Final Fantasy VIII contains the orphanage scene, which is both tiresome and frankly, improbable.
• Final Fantasy XII. When we find out why Basch killed the king and Vaan's brother. It was his Evil Twin. Seriously. And Vaan accepts it!
  • Vaan didn't believe it at first (which makes him the most intelligent character at that point) but Balthier and Fran, who just believed it right off the bat. Seriously guys? The whole story is dodgy even if it was right after all.
  • Bear in mind that this revelation occurs just after the party sees Gabranth remove his helmet for the first time and Balthier uses this as his justification for believing it.
  • Also You Have to remember that Balthier was a Judge and may of know that there where the twins on oppisite sides of the conflict. and Fran Would of just followed Balthier
• Final Fantasy XII:Revenant Wings. When you finally caught up to the Judge of Wings (Mydia) and beaten her, everyone, save Fran and Balthier, are all hugs and sympathy. Considering that Mydia had just finished slaughtering her entire race (who I must note had done nothing wrong and were completely innocent) and provided a difficult boss battle, what the hell?! Her motivation was basically "I'm so lonely and my lover's dead and I want to bring him back and possibly get some revenge" while her reasons for killing off her race was "I don't want Feolthanos to use them like he used me" when she could've just ignored them instead of killing them, since when you see Feolthanos, he's basically a giant, immobile crystal. Also, considering that she had gotten some of her anima back, she could've just asked the party for help instead of fighting them.
• The entire final act of Final Fantasy XIII qualifies, with a special shoutout to the ending. We spend the entire latter half of the game meandering aimlessly about to find a way to subvert the Big Bad's plan to destroy Cocoon, only to end up fulfilling it in the end. The real Suck came with the nonsensical finale to justify why our heroes and said world are not hosed by this, despite every bit of information we were given up to then pointing to either one of the two being hosed. It's never clearly explained in the game.
• Fallout 3: the ending. An absurdly weak point in an otherwise overwhelmingly well-made game, with a completely arbitrary, flimsily-explained Someone Has to Die moment.
  • This can be especially weak if you play as a good character and recruit Fawkes, an 8-foot-tall radiation-proof bruiser, to your team. Thus, you have to make a choice over who dies due to radiation poisoning, while Fawkes stands there doing nothing! If you have Broken Steel, he will do it but the game calls you a pussy for it though.
• Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is a third-person action game that has you as a heretofore-unknown 'secret apprentice' to Darth Vader, which basically lets you be a brand-new Jedi/Sith running around hurling shit into people with your force powers. Depending on your patience, proclivities and platform, this was either a decent-enough, barely-passable or downright-godawful game, but it contains one of the most jaw-droppingly unforgivable Dethroning Moment of Suck in Star Wars history, due to one single sequence clearly designed to be the exact opposite. Due to an un-noteworthy series of generic, Star Wars events, Our Anti-Hero is tasked with the monumental objective of seizing an orbiting Star Destroyer with Force powers and dragging it down to the planet. One drunken Jedi cheerleader berates you for mentioning the sheer impossibility of this act, stating that NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH THE FORCE. You then proceed to seize an orbiting Imperial Star Destroyer with your Force powers and drag it down to the planet. Now, this sequence, gameplaywise in and of itself was infamously buggy, sporting numerous glitches and instances of bad design that made it either outright unplayable - or on the Wii version, such a logistical nightmare it was simply shortened into a non-interactive cutscene. The unbelievable frustration of that nightmarishly glitched scene notwithstanding, the scene itself damage, beyond repair, the entirety of Star Wars lore. The guy you're playing is shown to be weaker with the Force than Darth Vader, for example, and ostensibly weaker than Luke Skywalker. And yet this one nameless, whiny little prick that has only appeared in this one game can hurl around fucking Star Destroyers? This throws every single event in the entire series, prequel and original, into question. If the Force is THIS strong, why did Anakin and Obi-Wan fly around in their tiny little fighters at the beginning of Ep III if they could just sit in one of the Capitol ships and smash all the little fighters - AND THEIR CARRIERS - into each other? Why do Jedi fight with lightsabers when the true test of Force might is clearly whichever one is strong enough to literally crush the other? Why did Yoda whip out a lightsaber, instead of just using the Force to pull Dooku's saber out of his hands? Come to think of it, why has no Jedi ever done that? Why is anyone using lightsabers if the Force is strong enough to throw around Star Destroyers? What makes all of this worse is that the story comes from Lucas himself - meaning that the events of the game - including the Star Destroyer-Hurling - are canon.
• Sonic The Hedgehog 2006: the game is already horrible enough, but the icing on the cake has got to be Princess Elise kissing Sonic to bring him back to life. The hearts of many sank at this scene. Some speculate that the scene is supposed to go with this game being Sonic's "rebirth", but instead it only further put him into his grave...Even a sequel to NiGHTS, a guest appearance in Super Smash Bros Brawl and an RPG from BioWare isn't enough to make the hurting stop.
  • Before that, there was Shadow The Hedgehog. Here's a example: The Opening. It ends, as the Nintendo World magazine once put it, with a weakling Sonic, who quickly succumbs to Shadow's power. What the hell, SEGA?! Do you really thought people would like to see their childhood hero getting humiliated like that?! Is that how much you care about him? "What will you do next? Kill him?!" ...Oh.
    • If there's a DMOS for Shadow The Hedgehog, it would probably be any ending where Shadow kills Eggman. Sure, it's not canonical anyway, but seriously, what the hell?
  • Sonic Unleashed. Your Mileage May Vary on the game itself, but there was the scene where Tails freaks out at a bunch of monsters that aren't really that tough anyway by the standards of what the characters normally fight, and runs away. To Tails fans, it was incredibly demoralizing.
• Okay, so there is this game from the 90's called Septerra Core, and its your standard, if sometimes monotonous and difficult RPG. The story follows some interesting threads, and is loosely based on various religious myths with actually come together nicely. Then, the ending comes. So Maya is the "spiritual" descendant of Marduk and there's other worlds out there that have been doing the exact same thing as you? Where in the bleedin' 'ell did ''those'' come from? And makes the entire 30+ hours of gameplay before it feel like an absolute waste of time. It's probably a blessing that the hinted sequel never came to be.
• After displaying lots and lots of Awesome, Lamia Loveless finally gets this moment in OG Gaiden, the dreaded thing they call...The ODE Incident, which seriously downplays her capabilities into something of a Distressed Damsel or a Faux Action Girl and got her almost killed by a minor villain who quickly got beaten off by a bigger villain. Then when she comes back, she has ZERO story involvements, unable to redeem her dethroning moment.
  • My main gripe is on how they had to 'promote' Juergen's capability by 'killing' Lamia. If she ended up as the counterpart of R's Master Asia WITHOUT the interference of Juergen, I think I can still not take it as a dethroning moment. The main point is, being defeated by an Big Bad Wannabe like Juergen (who just debuts in the OG series), no matter how it happens, equals to SUCK for Lamia (who has been well established since Advance) and takes away her awesome points. It's like you take one upstart (read: THE LOWEST OF THE ALGORITHM) original villain in SRW to kill off Kouji Kabuto (by luck!) only to be killed by the true Big Bad, that'll be totally embarassing and full of suckage. Even moreso for Lamia that after she got back, she neither received no development, nor learn anything new.
• Metal Gear Solid 4. At the end of the game, it's revealed that the Big Bad wasn't the ghost of Liquid, but rather Ocelot pretending to be Liquid. That made the rather badass showdown consisting of shoutouts to the previous Metal Gear Solid games seem pointless in my eyes.
• Assassin's Creed was a very enjoyable game, with good gameplay and a compelling story. The ending, however, was a complete letdown. Abstergo gets the map to the Pieces of Eden, and leaves you in the lab. You can still replay any of the levels you've already played. Um... yay. Basically, the ending's just completely anti-climactic, and almost feels like the developers just said, "Well, that's it. What, you're still here? Go away." Ot "All will be revealed in the sequel, for only $49.95! (in US currency)"
  • In the sequel you kill roughly half the population of Italy in pursuit of the Big Bad, finally beat him in a fistfight after being stabbed in the gut by him, and the main character... realises that the villain is a historical character who doesn't die until after the events of the game, so he announces that he's tired of killing and wanders off. And now he's coming back in a spinoff/sequel to continue killing Templars, so we must assume that what he meant was simply that he's tired of killing fat people.
• The "reveal" of Dhaos' true intentions in Tales Of Phantasia. Not only does it come completely out of nowhere, but the game seems to expect us to believe that it completely justified him launching a genocidal war against mankind. (Hint: it DOESN'T) It actually makes Dhaos less sympathetic, since it makes it appear that Dhaos brought his end on himself by never bothering to explain his actions when he had multiple chances to. The Tales series has many sympathetic villains, but Dhaos does not deserve to be one of them. Wanting to help your own world is no justification for wanting to cause the destruction of another.
• Chrono Trigger: Early in the game, in 600 A.D. when you go to save Queen Leene, you must find a secret passage in a cathedral, and go underground to the next dungeon. There is one room in this dungeon that's a little off the beaten path, but still far too easy to find, where you go in to see a bunch of monsters around a statue of Magus, worshiping it. By singing a song. In English. The lyrics are horrible - one could easily theorize that the monsters stole a hymnal from the nuns they booted out and then rewrote the entire thing to be Obviously Evil. This one scene keeps me from taking most of the game seriously; even worse, this was done far better later on, when you see monsters trooping silently around a similar statue with low, indistinguishable, freakish chanting in the background.
  • Oh, there's one far, far worse...as revealed in the PS 1 and DS re-releases, after all's said and done, Chrono and Marle get married. As Marle's the princess of Guardia, that would sensibly make them the new King & Queen, right? So, with them running the show, I have to wonder....HOW THE HELL DID DALTON MANAGE TO DESTROY THE KINGDOM!? I mean, this guy spends the whole game being more of a punching bag for your party than Gato, and then out of nowhere...BOOM, HOSTILE TAKEOVER. WTF, Squeenix!?
    • The Chrono crew took down a frakking Eldritch Abomination and fought through many of Zeal's defenses, what the hell could he bring to the table that they haven't already crushed?
    • Chrono Cross killing off Trigger's cast. Need I say more?
• The Cloud vs Sephiroth subplot in Kingdom Hearts 2 which features Cloud acting like a wangsty stoic loner for no good reason, Sephiroth being a Designated Villain who claims to be Cloud's darkness, and Tifa generally seeming pathetic. While it is optional, the ending to this sidestory is the lamest part. After yet another tacked-on optional boss fight with Sephiroth (who's easier to beat this time around!), Sora has to go tell Cloud that Sephiroth is waiting for him to come settle the score. He does this, Cloud shows up, Sephiroth taunts him some more, and the two of them clash with each other while the now tired One-Winged Angel plays in the backround. In midfight, Tifa shows up to be Cloud's "light" and help him against Sephiroth. Just as Cloud gets the strength to fight, he and Sephiroth are lifted into the sky and literally dissapear into thin air, and thus the fight is abruptly ended with no real winner. The handwave explanation Tifa gives is that Cloud and Sephiroth have "left for another world" and she's now going to have to search for Cloud all over again. So not only was the whole ordeal boring as heck, but it served absolutely NO purpose other than to pander to the fanboys and promote The ''Complication'' of Final Fantasy VII. Forget any complaints about the main story; THIS was the worst thing to come out of KH 2 and the Kingdom Hearts series as a whole. Meanwhile Sora, Donald, and Goofy, the main characters do squat within that subplot except fight Sephiroth, who fights them because he randomly decided he wants the keyblade, a motive that gets dropped as soon as the fight ends.
• Thunder Force VI's final boss, the ORN Emperor, is a fetus. He's supposed to be the emperor of the empire that's been at constant war with the Galaxy Federation?
• I'm a huge fan of Gungrave but the big reveal of some random race of alien parasites being behind everything just really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm fine with the whole "dead regeneration creating undead soliders and mutants" bit, I'm fine with the main character being some kind of techno-engineered revenant with oversized guns...I'm fine with seed being a Psycho T-virus on acid, but after reading through the artbook, all the drama, betrayal, death and conflicts being due to said random race of alien parasites wanting to Take Over the World is where I draw the line.
• The end of Scene 1 of Brave Firefighters. Okay Mayor Taylor, yeah, I'm concerned for your family too, but you're not a firefighter. Way to be a mayor by knocking out one and then running off to find your family when you're in an extremely unsafe building that you could easily die in, forcing the player's team to rescue him again in Scene 2.
• World Of Warcraft demonstrates aptly why DMOS is a subjective trope: there are as many possible DMOSes as there have been days since its release, depending on who you ask (including "there hasn't been one yet").
  • A certain percentage of players has never gotten over the Eredar being retconned from true demons who were partially responsible (along with the often-discounted dreadlords) for corrupting Sargeras, into ambitious draenei whom Sargeras was responsible for corrupting.
  • It's difficult to take Thrall seriously ever since he promoted Garrosh Hellscream to a position of much power and authority because of who his father was, even though he's rash, arrogant, stupid, and a huge diplomatic liability. It's hard to buy Thrall as a great leader if he picks such an obnoxious fool to be his right-hand orc based on nepotism.
  • The hardcore derailing Illidan and Kael'thas were given during The Burning Crusade. Two of the most complex characters in the setting (Illidan's treatment at Richard A. Knaak's questionable hands notwithstanding) get turned into one-dimensional cardboard cutouts taken from the Big List Of Fantasy Villain Cliches for seemingly no reason other than because Blizzard didn't want to tap in to the vast potential for awesome new lore they'd brought in—Tempest Keep getting overrun by ethereals with a powerful Nexus-Prince running things, the Sunwell being held by Legion-loyal undead in Magister's Terrace, and the Black Temple providing a staging grounds for a raid on a major Legion outpost apparently pales in comparison to going off and killing two major lore figures for reasons with less support that Mr. Smite in the Deadmines. Never mind how Jaina Proudmoore is treated as a second-class citizen in the new Alliance she basically held together for years before Varian was re-introduced as a Conan expy and took over the entire Alliance with older, wiser leaders letting him go on his merry way invading other kingdoms, declaring war on their behalf, and fighting with the Horde in a situation that gives the Big Bad free reinforcements... and after all this, Jaina says she's proud of him?
    • Thank you. Illidan, Evil!Arthas and Kael'thas were some of the coolest characters in the series. Illidan was an awesome badass who managed to have an extremely sympathetic backstory (HELLO ten thousand years of hell and losing your love interest to your boring, obnoxious brother,) Death Knight Arthas was snarky as hell, and Kael was both, in addition to being a genuinely good person and whilst being the consummate gentleman (note how he tends to treat others in cutscenes very politely) who was only trying to save his people (admittedly, it recalls to mind the second-mentioned character's story), and then comes the Burning Crusade. Thank you, Blizzard. So much.
  • The culmination of the Great Masquerade questline. This went from one of the most memorable quest experiences in the game, to being completely taken out and retconned by way of a badly written comic, for no other reason than to give Varian Wrynn credibility as a character. From then on, players hadn't achieved that victory anymore — Varian had. That decision turned a once-epic moment into a case of lazy writing and product placement, a definite turn for the worst in Blizzard story telling, probably the first case of something substantial being taken away from the game, and a slap in the face of the players, all at once.
  • Cataclysm probably has the ultimate Dethroning Moment Of Suck for Thrall. He's just teamed up with the player and a wily goblin called Sassy to defeat their former traitorous Trade Prince Gallywix. What does Thrall do after defeating him, make him racial leader again! This is after Gallywix '''betrayed''' the player twice"", enslaved his own goblins in an abusive mine, teamed up with pirates, and right after he personally tried to kill Thrall and the player. Worse is that the player and Thrall killed tons of mooks to get to Gallywix and other goblins such as Sassy showed themselves to far more capable and caring then Gallywix. This moment totally derailed Thrall into a caricature that no no longer resembles his old self.
• Speaking of Warcraft, WarCraft III. Speaking as someone who rather likes Jaina Proudmoore, It's utterly contemptuous of how she handled Arthas at Stratholme. No, Jaina, don't try to convince him to merely quarantine the town while you try to find a way to cure the plague—in fact, don't bother thinking of all your connections to high-level wizards at all. Instead, mutter something about not being able to watch him do the deed and then run off to babble to Uther.
  • In the intro, we see King Terenas shooting down the idea of his people "being prisoners in their own lands" when the idea of quarantine was being brought up then. Uther tried to convince Arthas not to purge Stratholme, and Arthas used his right to sovereignty to dismiss the Silver Hand in short order. Arthas was already driven insane as a result of the plague corrupting his townsfolk and raising them as Scourge; he became completely psychotic after having to hold off a recent invasion and seeing the plague at work in person. If Uther couldn't convince him to quarantine Stratholme, there's no way Jaina could have, either.
• Super Mario Sunshine had the final boss sequence as a huge Dethroning Moment for the Koopa King. First, instead of doing, you know, villain stuff, you get a badly timed Villains Out Shopping moment with Bowser relaxing in a hot tub with Bowser Jr. and "Mama Peach". The sheer Villain Decay from Bowser's infamous "Mario? HOW DARE YOU DISTURB MY FAMILY VACATION?" yelled in a ridiculous sitcom dad voice, while spawning Memetic Mutation, is painful to watch. Luckily, Nintendo learned from their mistakes and overcompensated in Super Mario Galaxy, as well as not making Bowser talk in full English sentences again.
• There was one incident in Wild Arms that was so mind numbingly stupid that nobody can defend it. This incident, you ask? At the end of the prologue, Cecilia willingly gives the Tear Drop to Berserk, a villain, without even trying to find a third option to the Sadistic Choice. Yes, it was obvious that the Demons had to get the Tear Drop for the plot to get going, but did they have to do it by lowering the normally smart and rational Cecilia's IQ by about 20 digits?
• Heath from Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia. It's obvious that he was imitating the rival (badly), saying stuff like "Vicemail!" instead of the normal "Voicemail!" Understandable. Once you obtain the third jewel, Heath just had to pull a Friend-or-Idol Decision: give the jewel to him or something bad happens to your rival. Even though said rival was clearly okay and told her to not give up the jewel, if you selecte "No," Heath will say, "Oh, you not care about Keith? Not a very good friend?" Keep selecting "No", and you'll get the same response until you are forced to say "Yes." You'll then be forced to give the jewel up. All that hard work ruined to the point where you might think there would be a chance to team up with the villains. It was that bad, and it even beat that darned Perfect Apples incident from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon in terms of forming sheer rage.
  • The jewel incident get even worse when you consider this: With that jewel at the Ranger base, the villains would have been unable to do nearly anything, meaning, the Rangers would've had an easy time storming the base. But there's more, halfway through the game, we find out that one of the teachers at the school was a major villain connected with Team Dim Sun. That very same teacher suggested that the smartest student at the school go to work at Altru, yet no one seems to make the connection. And one more, this is more of a Wall Banger, but that same student (his name escapes me) is even working directly with Team Dim Sun, assuming they're good guys. This isn't sobad because he's hidden away in their base when you save him, but earlier in the game he's shown as clearly being allowed to go outside.
• Speaking of the Perfect Apple incident from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, lets not let that off the hook, shall we? This is quite possibly the single most infamous scene in the game, mainly because of the massive Idiot Ball that apparently wasn't just glued to Chatot, it was grafted into his brain. Yes, the scene was that stupid.
  • Honestly, you're right. At least, in the Heath incident above, one would have to go through it once (can't lose the Wi-Fi Pokemon/missions, after all). Chatot, you realize that Team Skull is bad, right? Couldn't it kill him to listen to the players for more than two seconds? But no, he is more worried about what happens to the Guildmaster. Chatot is officially the worst Pokemon Mystery Dungeon character of all time because of that. Way to go, moron!
    • Oh, golly, more of why many other Tropers think this bird should be fricasseed. When the player and partner return from the future and find that not only is Grovyle on the heroes' side, but that Dusknoir, an explorer nearly everyone in the game idolized, is the villain instead, Chatot proceeds to call the team a complete LIAR. Sure, he did that to see if everyone else would believe them, and even he did but just berated them anyway for the lulz, but still.
    • Chatot was lying about testing them, wasn't that obvious?
    • Thankfully, I was a Pikachu at the time, so when the Brine Cave mission came up, I put all my money and items in storage, and slapped Chatot with my Shock Wave, killing him instantly. Mission failed, yes, but DAMN that felt good.
• The ending to Rayman Raving Rabbids. You play every minigame the Rabbids have in store, but instead of rescuing the Baby Globoxes and defeating the Rabbids for good, poor Rayman gets stuck in a hole while a sheep harasses him. Many fans consider it the DMOS of the entire Rayman series.
• Ultima IX. Specifically: the resurrection of Dupre. Seriously, his sacrifice in Serpent Isle had actually felt meaningful to a lot of players. All undone for no particularly good reason.
• God Of War III was a fun ride, except for one part that made made some players physically ill: the killing of Poseidon's wife. We know that Kratos doesn't mind killing innocents for getting to his goals, but come on, this one went too far! And while similar moments happened in the other games, it always was a sign of the cruelty of the gods or of the Sisters, as they were the ones who placed traps which were forcing you to kill bystanders. But having the PLAYER push the commands for forcing the poor woman, who's pleading THE ENTIRE TIME for being spared, to go to a bloody murder for the sake of a bloody murder was too much for some players. It's even more jarring when you realize that Kratos solved similar puzzles earlier in the very same game without having to kill anyone!
  • Even if he needed to sacrifice someone to solve the puzzle, there were plenty of monsters around that he could use. The whole game is pretty much the developers getting sick of the fandom for Kratos and showing that he is a horrific bastard who crossed the Moral Event Horizon a long time ago, and coming up with increasingly heavy-handed reasons to show it.
• 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand is entertaining, over-the-top ridiculousness until one derailing point. 50 and his buddy need to get into a theater where a Mini Boss is hiding, but there are too many guards outside. So he calls his #1 fan, a guy who owns a strip club in the Qurac town where the game takes place, and the guy sends over a party van filled with bikini-clad women to distract the guards. Yeah, it's horribly misogynistic and misandristic, but it's been done before and we have a trope for that. While the women are hanging off the guards, 50 triggers a bomb which destroys the van, kills the guards, and sets the theater on fire. The women, who were just as close to the blast as the guards, disappear. They are never even mentioned again, though logic dictates they would have been horribly maimed at best.
• Grand Theft Auto San Andreas: As far as GTA protagonists go, C.J. is moderately likable, until he takes over a construction site by locking its foreman in a port-o-john, knocking it over, pushing it into a pit in the ground and filling the pit with cement
  • The worst part? He did it because the construction workers were hitting on his sister.
  • On the bright side, now he has a relationship he can build on.
• In the mission 'Home Coming' when CJ's brother Sweet is released from prison and he has to go pick him up . CJ tries to get Sweet to join in his new lifestyle because CJ had established a lot of businesses and the like so that has made him more financially off , however Sweet is still convinced that he should 'go back to the hood'. CJ has moved on from that way of living and rightly defends himself but Sweet only insults his brother and compares him to Big Smoke, who betrayed their gang and did what CJ did, get out and be wealthy, albeit for the wrong reasons . CJ's spine completely disappears after that (but was still determined to show Sweet how bad 'the hood' is), but after that mission I certainly disliked Sweet a lot more, especially in the upcoming missions.
  • Within like 5 missions you can have CJ slitting throats of random guards to steal a rapper's rhyme book. Y'know, because we're trying to make a sympathetic character this time around.
• In the trailer for DCU online, there is a part where superman beats Black Adam with ease. Black Adam is powered by magic. Superman is weak to magic. Not to mention Black Adam canf fight the entire Justice league at once, including Superman!
• The Amagi Inn event in Persona 4 is just several kinds of stupid. My male cohorts and I go to the spring...only to end up in a massive Accidental Pervert moment with no way to explain myself. The girls realize that it's now time for the men to bathe...and proceed to be Jerkasses and keep using it. Then I'm coaxed into sneaking into the girls' bedroom, and at this point I was literally banging my head on the wall and threw my controller across the room, nearly dragging my PS2s off the shelf in the process, with the only saving grace being that my perverted male friends and I snuck into the wrong room (Hanako's and Kashiwagi's room), resulting in a little hilarity. I was so pissed off that the next day, I commited suicide by Shadow  ^*
  ^{I saved my game just before doing so}
  .

Edited by triassicranger

Cut from the page:

• Modern Warfare 2, the airport mission where you're forced to slaughter an entire airport full of civilians. I know there are people who will defend this, but that doesn't change the fact that it made me stop playing.
  • Except you don't. Nothing happens if you don't fire at them at all. Also you can if you want skip the mission.

So, the first guy's saying you've got to kill the civilians. And the second guy's saying you don't. So, if you don't actually have to kill the civilians, doesn't that render the reasoning untrue?

Why was my Tales Of Phantasia entry deleted? It was perfectly valid.

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I have to question the Final Fantasy VI entry. The fact that the opera is universally considered a masterpiece (especially music) makes it seem like the entry is an attempt at flamebait.

And yes, I am aware this is a subjective trope, but even subjective tropes should have standards.

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"We have perfectly good Scrappy Mechanic, That One Level and That One Boss pages for that."

I can understand Scrappy Mechanic, but are you saying that very difficult level or boss = shitty level or boss? Just as easy does not equal suck, neither does hard; there are dethroning levels and bosses that aren't difficult at all.

Edited by TsundeRay http://twitter.com/raydere | http://raydere.tumblr.com Hide / Show Replies

Had to adjust a warning since some of the moments on this page are not fictional.