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Aug 13th 2019 at 4:41:31 PM •••

I started a discussion on ATT asking if the \"Species\" identifier on most character bios could be removed, since I thought they were unnecessary. Thoughts?

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Aug 23rd 2019 at 5:59:01 AM •••

I would say species is pretty useful for the alien characters.

Aug 23rd 2019 at 9:21:03 AM •••

Considering the fact that the MCU has plenty of characters of various species, I think we should keep it.

Jul 5th 2019 at 8:02:48 PM •••

Would anyone else like to make a dedicated page for Mysterio? By that, not the individual character (unless his page grows that long), but the Collective Identity. These include:

  • Quentin Beck / Mysterio
  • William Ginter Riva
  • Dimitri Smerdyakov
  • Guterman
  • Janice

We could also put the Elementals here.

Thoughts?

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Jul 31st 2019 at 11:00:15 AM •••

Considering the page isn\'t only about Myserio himself, but also about his team, shouldn\'t it be named \"Mysterio\'s team\" or something like that, instead of simply \"Mysterio\"?

May 26th 2019 at 7:05:43 AM •••

It seems like you guys are rolling with this now, but I really don\'t like this whole new trend of sorting by \"Heroes\" and \"Villains\". Sorting by location worked far better. I mean, now we have Ego next to Erik Killmonger. Not to talk about the fact that there are still villains listed under cooperations. or Government etc I\'d vote to reverse it all.

Apr 28th 2019 at 5:40:58 PM •••

I was thinking about making a page or section dedicated to the Human Species as a whole. This is what I got so far:

  • Humans Are Special
    • Able to becomes Half Human Hybrids (by breeding with Clesialtials, as Peter Quill was conceived), or
    • Only species to survive the experiments of the Kree (Inhumans, especially Hive)
    • Only species (that we know of) who has been infused with the power of an infinite stone (Wanda, Quicksilver, Carol)
    • Able to build Technology that matches species who have been around longer than us. (Hank, Tony, the people of Wakanda, etc.)

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May 21st 2019 at 9:36:05 AM •••

I think you can add all that in the Nine Realms page, since there is already a section about Midgard (in other words, Earth) and its inhabitants (in other words, humans).

Apr 26th 2019 at 1:00:21 AM •••

Now that Endgame is released, what do you guys think we should do with the Avengers page?

I believe we could make a new page of Avengers. Consisting of:

  • Bruce Banner / The Hulk (redirect to the dedicated Hulk page)
  • James Rhodes / War Machine
  • Sam Wilson / Falcon / Captain America II
  • Wanda Maximoff / Scarlet Witch
  • Peter Parker / Spider-Man (redirected to the dedicated Spider-Man page)
  • Carol Danvers / Captain Marvel
  • Scott Lang / Ant-Man II

What could it be called? Maybe just Avengers - Current Members would suffice.

I\'d like to do this, but I feel like it\'s important to at least see what others think first.

Edited by ThoughtComplex Hide/Show Replies
Apr 28th 2019 at 5:04:38 PM •••

Current and Retired / Past Members?

Apr 28th 2019 at 11:00:22 PM •••

I don\'t see any problem with the current page, it\'s not like Stark and Cap stopped being the Avengers. Also before P4 announcements it is unclear who is indeed retired. Thor is getting his 4th movie so does he count?

Edited by Asherinka
Apr 29th 2019 at 7:49:33 AM •••

Actually, we don\'t know if Thor is getting a 4th movie, just that Waititi pitched one. Based on the ending of Endgame, I find it more likely he\'ll be in Vol. 3.

Mar 23rd 2019 at 4:10:11 PM •••

Do we really call it \"The Dark Dimension\"? I mean, in the MCU, they\'re actually called \"Zealots\". Yes, including Kaecilius and Dormammu. So, the \"Zealots\" aren\'t just their mooks.

Mar 23rd 2019 at 4:03:56 PM •••

This index needs to be fixed a bit. I mean there are those in \"Other Individuals and Organizations\" who are Obviously Evil.

What if we make it like this:

(under \"Villainous Organizations\")

  • Cosmic Villains: The Grandmaster, Topaz, Kyln Prison, The Sovereign, Abilisk, The Vrellnexians, Taserface\'s Ravager Clan
    • Ego the Living Planet
    • Nine Realms Villains: Svartalfheim, Muspelheim, Marauders
      • Hela Odinsdottir
  • Evil Incs: Hammer Advanced Weapons Systems, Roxxon Oil Corporation, Cybertek, IGH, Isodyne Energy, Midland Circle Financials, Testament Industries. (so many of them, wtf lol)
    • Advanced Idea Mechanics

What\'s especially jarring for me is that you put The Lighthouse under \"Villainous Organizations\" despite only the Kree Watch, few of the collaborators, and few of the True Believers can be considered evil among them. Yet you put more Obviously Evil characters like those I mentioned above from Cosmic Villains and Evil Incs under \"Other Individuals and Organizations\". Like, seriously, guys?

Mar 15th 2019 at 2:30:32 AM •••

Can Ant-Man, Rocket, Nebula and Captain Marvel be considered Avengers now? I feel like, especially in Ant-Man and Captain Marvel\'s case, they could be moved to an Avengers section (not sure about Rocket and Nebula, given their former Got G status). What do you think?

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Mar 23rd 2019 at 3:38:28 PM •••

I think we should wait until Avengers Endgame is released.

Edited by Phoenixion
Jan 1st 2019 at 2:50:54 AM •••

Would anyone be open to making a page for \"New S.H.I.E.L.D.\"? The organization is fully running again in Far From Home, yet the current layout doesn\'t quite fit that status. Not sure if it\'s too early, but I figured I\'d ask. New S.H.I.E.L.D. currently consists of Nick Fury, Maria Hill, Mysterio, Spider-Man, and I suspect the characters played by J.B. Smoove, Remy Hii and Oli Hill (though that\'s speculation to be confirmed later).

This came about when I tried adding Mysterio to S.H.I.E.L.D., but couldn\'t fit it anywhere that felt right. So let\'s see what you guys think, and if not now, then it\'s at least something to consider by the time of FFH.

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Feb 6th 2019 at 12:54:13 PM •••

I would say no since we have gotten no confirmation that Fury and Hill are specifically working for S.H.I.E.L.D. in Far From Home yet. I would wait until either the film or Agents of Shield season 6 makes it clear if they are working independently or not.

Edited by LowCal_Calzone_Zone
Aug 10th 2018 at 7:54:01 AM •••

Do we really need the \'heroic\' and \'villainous\' organization headers? I think it is way too simplfying, and honestly, Thanos doesn\'t fit in alongside street criminals like the Fisk Crime Ring. Just make a section about the Earth and one about the cosmos.

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Aug 12th 2018 at 5:43:56 AM •••

I\'d keep them. There are exceptions when some characters are Affably Evil or make a Heel Face Turn, but in most cases the division is straightforward. Thanos is definitely a villain and leads a villainous organization (see the page about his forces).

Also, the MCU wiki divides all characters into heroes and villains, check:

  • https://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Heroes
  • https://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Villains
Only a select few characters from the films (Loki, Bucky, Nebula, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver) are included into both categories there. The last four of them are all listed as heroes on TvTropes, and Loki is the \"neutral\" Cosmic category.

Aug 13th 2018 at 12:21:42 PM •••

Then I think we should at least seperate by place, meaning villains from Earth, from the cosmos etc. It\'s quite inconsistent as of now, with Hela being listed under Nine Realms etc

Also, the headerson the respective pages need to be updated too whenever one moves characters

Aug 18th 2018 at 3:22:30 AM •••

Well, Hela is not a part of a Villainous Organization, so \"Other Individuals and Organizations\" fits her. I see your point but I don\'t think that dividing characters into \"Those from Earth\" and \"Cosmic one\" instead of the current three major groups would be that beneficial (i.e. I\'d rather see the Guardians grouped with the Avengers than the Guardians grouped with Thanos and Co). Not to mention that it would require extensive editing to change all the indexes.

I agree that some characters from the \"Other Individuals and Organizations\" section could be moved up to either of the first two sections though, but it is better to discuss on a case-by-case basis.

Jul 20th 2018 at 7:29:40 PM •••

Does Gamora need a new page? Her section is less than 21k symbols long, and overall Guardians page is not that long either.

PS MCU films and characters page length as of 15 Jul in symbols without spaces: https://imgur.com/a/X500DI3, https://imgur.com/a/GN8k2d2

I merged the page back and redirected it to the Guardians page for now.

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Jul 20th 2018 at 7:49:33 PM •••

PS All characters with more than 25k characters of text written about them currently have a page.

Characters with pages or sections between 18k and 25k symbols in descending order:

23686Johann Schmidt/Red SkullNo separate page
22033YonduSeparate page
21296Scarlet WitchNo separate page
20824GamoraNo page (discussed)
20605DraxSeparate page
20171RonanNo separate page
19671Natasha Romanoff / Black WidowSeparate page (merge back?)
18440Scott Lang/Ant-ManNo separate page
18153Two GrootsNo separate page
18086OdinNo separate page

Jul 20th 2018 at 10:05:48 PM •••

There really need to be some sort of guideline about the limit for page length before splitting.

Jul 21st 2018 at 4:08:25 AM •••

I\'m really unsure here. Gamora is definitely a more major character than Yondu, but she has quite fewer characters of text... and with that argument we\'d also have to make a separate page for Red Skull because he\'s got more characters than Yondu and that isn\'t necessarily imo.. yeah guidelines would be great here :D I tend towards making a separate page here but if it comes to depend on one vote I wouldn\'t really choose a side.

Jul 21st 2018 at 8:01:08 PM •••

I don\'t see a need for it. If it is not comparable in size to character\'s who have their own pages, it wouldn\'t make sense to give her a separate page. It is unlikely to get bigger any time soon.

Jul 15th 2018 at 11:57:51 AM •••

Now that we\'ve gotten that villain pages out of the way, I wanted to ask something else:

Would it be okay with others if I added a Citizenship stat to go with the Species stat? I feel like with the MCU encompassing characters from all over (quite literally) that we could include it. Examples:

Captain America — American Black Panther — Wakandan Thor — Asgardian Black Widow — American (formerly Soviet-Russian) Scarlet Witch — Sokovian Peggy Carter — British Armin Zola — Swiss etc.

Since the MCU has such a diverse amount of characters, I figured a stat for their Citizenship would be a nice compliment to their Species stat. Since this means I\'d go through all the characters (don\'t worry, I got nothing better to do) and that all future characters would have it, I just wanted to see if you guys were cool with that.

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Jul 15th 2018 at 12:00:32 PM •••

Weird, I can\'t get this thing to look well. Anyways, you get the gist I\'m sure.

Jul 15th 2018 at 1:14:12 PM •••

I think it wouldn\'t hurt, and MCU wikia has citizenship listed for most characters, so information can be copied from it.

Jul 7th 2018 at 12:01:41 AM •••

Would it be okay with others if I made pages for Ultron, Hela and Killmonger? They have more symbols than other characters who already have separate pages and I think they shouldn\'t be lumped in with the others (especially in Ultron\'s case, where he\'s lumped in with Criminals & Terrorists).

Just wanted to get an opinion before I do these.

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Jul 7th 2018 at 12:11:27 AM •••

I\'m on the fence about it. They won\'t be making more appearances, but their sections are indeed quite long.

Jul 7th 2018 at 12:24:30 AM •••

Neither is Ego, yet he\'s got his own page. Does the amount of appearances matter versus how many tropes they embody and how long they are? I feel like they should have their own pages, especially since it would save space on the pages they\'re currently on.

Jul 7th 2018 at 12:26:55 AM •••

This is why I\'m undecided :) Let\'s wait for others to reply.

Jul 7th 2018 at 3:02:00 AM •••

I\'m kinda unsure as well, especially about Hela and Killmonger, since Ultron was an Avengers-villain, but since they are really quite long and Ego has his own I think it\'s alright for all of them to get their own as well!

Jul 7th 2018 at 6:10:56 PM •••

I think there could be a page for supervillains in general that have a large presence in spite of limited screenitme. Should fit for all three you listed.

Jul 8th 2018 at 8:12:10 AM •••

I think [1] suggested creating a single page for all three of them, something like MCU Supervillains. I\'d rather either keep them where they are or create a page for each of them to keep it consistent, tbh.

Jul 8th 2018 at 3:41:13 PM •••

Yeah, I\'d rather not make a page called \"MCU Supervillains\" where unrelated villains are grouped together. If Ego can get his own page, I don\'t see why the other three can\'t.

Jul 9th 2018 at 6:41:55 PM •••

Ultron I could see getting a page simply because he doesn\'t fit in the grouping and was significant enough of a character.

Hela for now I\'d say no. As awesome as she is, she just hasn\'t been prevalent enough, as Ragnarok wasnt even entirely focused on her. Same goes for Killmomger. They\'d only get pushed if the page they are currently on gets too long

Jul 9th 2018 at 7:19:40 PM •••

Correct me if I\'m wrong, but I believe this is covered in Theres No Such Thing As Notability. Basically, if they embody enough tropes than they deserve a page if someone thinks so. It doesn\'t matter how \"notable\" or \"significant\" they actually are. This isn\'t Wikipedia. Given how long their pages are, I feel they should have a page.

Jul 9th 2018 at 10:04:44 PM •••

That applies to a work in general. Wikipedia loves doing a lot of \"this work has to have had a cultural significance\" stuff, which is not the issue here.

There are priorities on which one gets a page first. They won\'t get a page just for the sake of getting a page, there has to be enough reason to split character pages into individual pages. If all of them fit on one page then they go in one page.

Jul 9th 2018 at 10:27:47 PM •••

But it\'s not for the sake of giving them a page. It\'s because their entries are so large that they should get one. The way I see it is if that Ego can his own page, I see no reason why the others can\'t. It makes no sense to give Ego a page but then not give the others their own when they should ideally be judged by the same standard.

Jul 10th 2018 at 12:14:20 AM •••

But not all of them need a page, or alternatively split the page into separate sections rather than one character per page. Well idk why Ego specifically got a page but for these one movie villains they don\'t really feel warranted to have one.

Jul 10th 2018 at 12:20:47 AM •••

Splitting the character folder into separate sections still takes up space on the page they\'re on. Again, I feel like \"they don\'t really warrant a page because they only appear in one movie\" specifically goes against Theres No Such Thing As Notability where anything can be tropable and warrant a page if they have enough tropes to support it. I\'ll see what others think, because if Ego can get his page, there\'s absolutely no reason for why the others can\'t.

Jul 10th 2018 at 1:22:36 AM •••

Then by that logic why don\'t we make one page per character from the beginning? Because it floods the site with unneeded pages.

Jul 10th 2018 at 1:32:24 AM •••

No. We make pages for characters with enough tropes and space to justify occupying it. Ultron, Hela and Killmonger fit that criteria.

Jul 10th 2018 at 1:39:46 AM •••

Do we have a word count limit for pages? If yes, what is it. Are the pages Ulton, Hela and Killmonger on over the limit? Would moving them elsewhere be the best fix for that?

Jul 10th 2018 at 1:44:46 AM •••

I\'m not sure the exact number is needed, but apparently 25k symbols is a good minimum. They each exceed that and even have more symbols than characters who do have their own pages.

Jul 10th 2018 at 2:28:25 AM •••

If the page notifies that it\'s too big then of course we remove sections and split into new pages. But you keep bringing up the reason \"because Ego has his own page\", making it sound as though they are given pages just got the sake of it.

We might not be Wikipedia, but we\'re also not a wikia. Splitting up characters into individual pages is done as a last step.

Jul 10th 2018 at 2:36:00 AM •••

I\'m also for not splitting pages unless they are tagged as too long. There are already many pages for this franchise, it\'s daunting for the casual visitors to even find the one character they want to see. I would be, in fact, more for merging back one-character pages if they were split too early.

Jul 10th 2018 at 2:41:14 AM •••

@Snowy 66

Because I have to keep pointing it out that saying \"this character shouldn\'t get their own page, they\'re not significant enough\" doesn\'t really hold up when Ego, a one-off character, does in fact have his own page. It\'s not because \"I want it for the sake of it\", but because they have a lot of tropes and symbols (as mentioned, more than others who do have their own page) that warrant it. I don\'t see the problem in giving people with large amount of tropes their page when they need it, it helps me find them easier if anything. It\'s clear as day navigating through the character page and besides, we also have an index.

Having all these pages was a natural result of the series its based on, nothing we can do there. We can\'t really cut down on pages when we its bursting at the seams with characters and more just keep getting added.

Jul 10th 2018 at 3:01:56 AM •••

Well you can\'t use something that was done wrong as an example to justify more things being done wrong. I don\'t know why Ego\'s page got split, but that is not a good enough reason to warrant every Big Bad being split too.

If the size has become an issue then split the largest ones off until the page is within limits again. For now I\'d say we\'re in agreement that Ultron can safely get his own page. If the page is still too large after that then Killmonger or whatever can be moved too.

Jul 10th 2018 at 3:05:40 AM •••

This isn\'t a case of every Big Bad getting split, just the ones that embody enough tropes in their appearance to justify it. It\'s no different than the heroes getting their own pages, it just happens that way due to how Trope Overdosed the MCU is. And whoever said it was done wrong? Now I\'m curious.

Jul 10th 2018 at 3:15:06 AM •••

Well if common sense dictates the page is over or about to be over the limit then the largest ones get split into individual pages. I can\'t really give any other input aside from this.

Jul 14th 2018 at 10:26:06 AM •••

Some statistics (I\'m still on the fence myself):

  • MCU Asgard: 117 106 symbols without spaces, including Hela\'s section - 30 161
  • MCU Criminals Terrorists: 159 148 symbols without spaces, including Ultron\'s secion - 31 662, Killmonger\'s secion - 34 632 (I\'d argue this page needs a split).
  • Size of four pages Avengers Infinity War got split into: 57 162, 50 415, 26 859, 42 138.
  • Mass Effect and Star Wars have quite a few individual character pages as well, we could use those for reference.

Jul 14th 2018 at 2:09:05 PM •••

Ok, I\'ve done some homework :) There are currently 84 MCU character pages: 47 of them are at least partially related to movies, 37 deal exclusively with other content. I checked those related to the movies only. Here is the list of pages in symbols as of today: https://imgur.com/a/GN8k2d2. I also checked all MCU movie pages, here is another list: https://imgur.com/a/X500DI3. It appears that 4 character pages potentially need a split (highlighted in red), and the 3 villains in question would solve the problem with two of those pages nicely, so I\'m now in favor of creating 3 new pages - 1 for each of them. I would also propose to merge back two pages highlighted in green.

Jul 14th 2018 at 2:40:16 PM •••

Alright sounds good. So I got the green light to make the pages for them then?

Jul 14th 2018 at 3:59:47 PM •••

As soon as the majority agrees with the idea. I asked here as well: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=12911386090A37310100&page=66#comment-1646 and got the reply \"100,000 text characters is likely too long\".

Jul 15th 2018 at 12:57:15 AM •••

I get a \"404 not found\" for those two Imgur link, I would have liked to see them.

But count me in the camp for \"split if needed to reduce size\", \"merge back when still possible\".

Jul 15th 2018 at 4:27:07 AM •••

Try to copy these: https://imgur.com/a/X500DI3, https://imgur.com/a/GN8k2d2.

Jun 4th 2018 at 3:26:23 AM •••

And a new question. Currently the Avengers page structure looks like this:

Main Character Index > Heroic Organizations > Avengers & Their Allies > Avengers Initiative (+6 subpages) | New Avengers (+1 subpage) | Allies (+1 subpage)

  • Avengers & Their Allies is not a page at all.
  • MCU: Avengers Initiative is 11 822 symbols long (which is very short) and contains only common tropes for 6 original Avengers + has 6 character pages attached to it
  • MCU New Avengers is 73 462 symbols long (which is ok, i.e. current length of individual MCU: Iron Man and MCU: Thanos pages is 71 769 and 67 879 symbols, respectively), contains tropes for 5 characters (5k to 20k symbols each), all of whom are AoU recruits + has 1 character page attached to it (Spider-Man)
  • MCU: Avengers Allies page is 23 295 symbols long (which is again rather short) and contains tropes for Ant-Man - 13 312 s, tropes for 3 minor characters (2-3,5k s each, 9 501 combined), references to other pages + has 1 character page attached to it (Bucky).

To me it all looks cumbersome. Here's the proposed structure:

Main Character Index > Heroic Organizations > Avengers & Their Allies (Captain America | Iron Man | Thor | Black Widow | The Hulk | AoU Recruits | Spider-Man | Bucky)

Steps to do that:

  1. MCU: Avengers Initiative - rename to MCUAvengersAndAllies done
  2. Add a list of all Avengers (old, new) and allies with appropriate references to this page (currently only 6 OG avengers listed) done
  3. MCU: New Avengers - rename to Characters/MCUAvengersAoURecruits step removed per discussion
  4. MCU: Spider-Man - keep the page but detach it from New Avengers and reattach directly to Avengers & Allies done
  5. MCU: Avengers Allies - move Ant-Man's section directly to Avengers & Allies page (too short to warrant a separate page) done
    delete, move sections of 3 minor characters to Shield or Citizens pages (they really don't belong here) done, but content moved to the Avengers page as well
  6. MCU: Bucky Barnes - keep the page but detach it from Avengers Allies and reattach directly to Avengers & Allies done
  7. MCU: Hawkeye - delete, merge the information back to Avengers & Allies (the page is 12 343 symbols long, no idea why he got a separate page in the first place; all others are at least around 20k s long and many are over 40k; all memes aside, this is not rational). done

/Discuss /Status updated

Edited by Asherinka Hide/Show Replies
Jun 4th 2018 at 3:52:31 AM •••

I have to agree that streamlining these pages would be a good idea.

Jun 4th 2018 at 4:19:22 AM •••

I'd be totally up for that, the only reason why it is the way it is now is because everything was one page once and got split when it got too long over time, but if someone only now created those pages, that's the way it have been organized from the beginning.

Jun 4th 2018 at 10:52:12 AM •••

As the whole project is a trimming down of the pages, I approve. Pages like Hawkeye, which shouldn't have been split in the first place, certainly can be repatriated back.

Also, don't hesitate doing a bit of clean-up in the process, like with indentation, it's always a good opportunity.

Jun 4th 2018 at 11:11:36 AM •••

This seems much more organic than the current structure. The only questions I have are whether Black Widow should be merged back to the Avengers page if Hawkeye is getting merged and whether Black Panther's page should be listed under the "Avengers and Allies" page.

Jun 4th 2018 at 11:48:37 AM •••

I disagree with the "AOU Recruits" name ("New Avengers" is what's used in-film but we could go with something like "Recruits"), but I agree with pretty much everything else. I think it's preferable to keep things in-line with their in-universe name as opposed to going somewhat meta.

Also, I'm thinking that the characters could be listed on the "Avengers and Allies" page should have Hawkeye, Ant-Man, Sharon Carter, Erik Selvig, and Helen Cho, plus details on the Avengers as a collective team. Should be more than enough content for a single page.

Edited by KingClark
Jun 4th 2018 at 12:10:19 PM •••

@DustSnitch Black Widow's page is 19k symbols.. I don't have a strong opinion on that. As I've written below, there are 17 characters with pages longer than 25k symbols (and their list hasn't changed since 6 May), I would keep those. Now we also have 5 more individual pages that are shorter (Black Widow, Rocket, Drax, Yondu - 19-23k and Hawkeye - 12k). Hawkeye stands out, but I believe if the rest are to be merged back, the same decision should be made about all four of them.

@KingClark Upd Let's simply keep the "New Avengers" then.

I believe though that Sharon Carter should be moved to the SHIELD page, while Erik Selvig and Helen Cho - to Citizens (just like Jane Foster). They are not Avengers, and all heroic organisations are technically Avengers' allies. Not a reason to list minor characters on the Avenger's page.

Edited by Asherinka
Jun 5th 2018 at 4:32:26 AM •••

Please see MCU: Avengers and Allies. Anyone willing to check the formatting?

Upd I moved three remaining characters to this page as well.

Edited by Asherinka
May 6th 2018 at 8:54:18 PM •••

One more suggestion. There is a list on IMDB with screentime of all characters in each MCU film: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls066620113/?sort=list_order,asc&st_dt=&mode=detail&page=1

It can be used to highlight specific characters on pages like this: Avengers: Infinity War. I.e. for IW all characters with at least 5 minutes of screentime are currently highlighted.

Edited by Asherinka
May 6th 2018 at 1:05:35 AM •••

I've checked the length of all MCU (movies only) character pages (or sections) as of today in symbols (without spaces), and this is what I've got:

74744LokiHas a separate page
65814Tony StarkHas a separate page
55328Steve Rogers/Captain AmericaHas a separate page
54455ThanosHas a separate page
42652Peter Parker / SpidermanMCU: New Avengers
40849EgoOne-off villain
40709Sgt. James "Buck" BarnesMCU: Avengers Allies
39854Agent Phil CoulsonHas a separate page
39747ThorHas a separate page
35994Dr. Strange (+ Cloak of Levitation)MCU: Masters of The Mystic Arts
32137Star-LordMCU: Guardians of the Galaxy
31514UltronOne-off villain
29269HelaOne-off villain
28801Killmonger/Erik StevensOne-off villain
27030Dr. Bruce Banner /HulkHas a separate page
26092Black PantherMCU: Wakanda Government & Military
25670Agent Peggy CarterHas a separate page
etc

Here's a proposition: create separate pages for characters who are (or soon will be) in more than one movie (i.e. not Ego or Ultron, for instance), have long sections on general pages (> 25k symbols) and don't have separate pages yet, namely: Spiderman, Bucky, Strange, Star-Lord and Black Panther.

Edited by Asherinka Hide/Show Replies
May 6th 2018 at 2:45:21 AM •••

Yeah, good suggestion! Especially for Spider-Man, Black Panther and Strange since those are also main characters. But yeah, I vote to do it for all characters you suggested!

May 6th 2018 at 3:34:06 AM •••

See MCU: Bucky Barnes, MCU: Spider-Man. Upd + MCU: Doctor Strange, MCU: Black Panther

I'm not quite sure if it is a good idea to split the Guardians though.

Upd Created by others as of 01 June 2018: MCU: Star-Lord, MCU: Ego The Living Planet. Mission completed )

Edited by Asherinka
Mar 27th 2018 at 8:38:14 PM •••

In the work pages, what do the bold character names mean?

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Mar 28th 2018 at 5:18:56 AM •••

These are the main characters, or "most important" characters, and they are bold so that you can find them faster in the list.

Mar 28th 2018 at 10:08:44 AM •••

Ah, ok. Thank you for the explanation.

Mar 2nd 2018 at 11:49:43 PM •••

The latest Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. episode (5x11) introduced Ruby, a new villain, daughter of General Hale and a leather-clad masked assassin. Where should her entry be placed?

Jan 1st 2018 at 2:42:10 PM •••

I've created a page for "Avengers and Their Allies". If you want, I could fill it up with all the tropes for the Avengers from the Avengers Initiative page & redirect all the characters to their relevant pages, all by the end of the week. Thoughts?

Jul 28th 2017 at 11:54:59 AM •••

dmcreif made a bunch of arbitrary edits on many pages like removing the species stat and the foreign voiceover actors with asking first. Should we revert his edits and give him a warning for disruption?

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Jul 28th 2017 at 12:09:51 PM •••

i agree. that kind of stuff is uncalled for. Especially for movies with such intricate world building and international fanbase

Aug 28th 2017 at 7:46:47 PM •••

Really late, but we can revert the edits if it's necessary.

Aug 30th 2017 at 10:25:59 AM •••

I actually appreciate removing the species stat if characters are simply human. Most Writers Are Human, after all, so there's no reason to clutter character entries and bring these pages to breaking the character limit with something people will assume default.

Edited by DustSnitch
Jul 15th 2017 at 12:55:41 PM •••

I'm thinking of mixing the Kamar-Taj and Sanctum Sanctorum pages into one page called "Masters of the Mystic Arts" or "Sorcerers," so that most of the cast of Doctor Strange is on one page.

I'd like feedback, but I'll just go forward if there isn't a response to this in a week.

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Jul 29th 2017 at 5:15:27 PM •••

I agree, I don't really see a reason to separate those into two pages. I'd vote to call it "Masters of the Mystic Arts".

Aug 28th 2017 at 7:40:39 PM •••

Really late, but I'll get onto that.

May 5th 2017 at 8:39:39 AM •••

Does Meredith Quill have a character sheet? I can't find her.

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Apr 16th 2017 at 10:50:42 AM •••

The Inhuman Royal Family Page has next to no tropes and at current is useless. I believe it should be deleted and any tropes being moved to the main Inhuman page. Thoughts?

Mar 23rd 2017 at 5:26:11 PM •••

I think the New York City Citizens page is getting too long. Any ideas on how to split it?

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Apr 17th 2017 at 1:22:58 PM •••

Split it so the Peggy Carter characters are separate. Seperated by areas of New York. Or shows or movies they appear in.

Feb 26th 2017 at 2:41:44 PM •••

The individual Star Wars films have a system where if you press the Characters page, it leads to an index and therefore specific parts of the film spanning character page.

Should the MCU films use a similar system?

Jan 18th 2017 at 2:14:24 PM •••

With LM Ds now impersonating agents (May, so far) and having tomato surprises, we have to consider how we handle it on the character pages. Do we treat LMD!May as May or do we treat them as separate individuals?

Nov 2nd 2016 at 1:13:09 PM •••

I propose creating another page for Supernatural entities.

Right now we have Dormammu and both Ghost Rides in the Others page. With the 3 of them there are enough to merit their own page.

The ghosts currently in the Gifted page would also be a better fit there.

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Nov 4th 2016 at 11:19:04 PM •••

If we mix it with the Kamar-Taj page I think it could work. I'd suggest it in the Repair Shop first though.

Jul 30th 2016 at 1:27:56 AM •••

"New Avengers?"

I heard that after Infinity War there will be a New Avengers movie, so this title could be sort of confusing...

May 6th 2016 at 12:34:50 PM •••

How about reorganising the page into something more akin to the Star Wars Characters page, splitting the characters off into sub-sections???

May 1st 2016 at 8:49:56 PM •••

I think things were better when characters were organized by their respective films. I think this new way of filing characters is confusing and hap-hazardous.

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May 1st 2016 at 10:15:10 PM •••

I strongly agree with this. The new arrangement is incredibly confusing and I think incredibly counter-intuitive considering the amount of individual series of movies and shows there are in the MCU.

May 2nd 2016 at 1:53:11 PM •••

Who made this decision anyway? A moderator?

May 3rd 2016 at 2:56:06 AM •••

I'm not entirely sure if it was a moderator, but the discussion thread about reorganizing things is here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1457851228077461700&page=1

May 4th 2016 at 12:27:43 PM •••

Yeah, this page is a complete mess and an eyesore, with no indication as to which characters go where.

May 4th 2016 at 12:35:13 PM •••

Yeah, I despise these changes too.

May 4th 2016 at 3:48:12 PM •••

^^ How so? The page names give pretty clear indications as to what kind of characters go on each page, and notes are being added on the index that tells who goes where. This was a necessary switch since there are many characters now whose most prominent appearances are not in the movie/series they first appeared in and organizing them in such a way no longer made sense.

May 5th 2016 at 9:25:33 AM •••

It's nice for the universe as a whole, really shitty for people trying to look at character sheets from individual works.

I really don't like the changes but my objections got outvoted.

Jul 21st 2016 at 3:00:24 PM •••

honest find a single character in this caos is a challenge.

Sep 28th 2016 at 8:40:51 PM •••

New subpages would help the articles to become less cumbersome. If the Council of Nine and the Chaste have their own page, why not The Hand or Leviathan?

Feb 19th 2015 at 1:56:30 PM •••

A lot of the tropes on the new character profiles seem presumptuous. How much do we know about these guys and how much is from the comics that we assume will be left intact - ie, Black Panther being a king, Klaw killing his dad, Dr. Strange being a martial artist and being arrogant before his accident.

Jan 18th 2015 at 3:07:01 PM •••

Since this a shared universe where the events in one character's movie affect the events of another character's movie, I have been thinking of doing the pages in a way that organizes them by the group they're associated with rather than by character franchise.

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Feb 21st 2015 at 7:26:53 AM •••

It doesn't seem that anyone is interested. I'm still awaiting suggestions on how to improve the sandboxes.

Edited by SatoshiBakura
Feb 21st 2015 at 9:28:23 AM •••

The Guardians of the Galaxy should get their own page.

Feb 21st 2015 at 9:36:13 AM •••

Let's say I'm a new person to the MCU, having only watched one film...

How the heck am I supposed to find a specific character?

Feb 21st 2015 at 9:50:54 AM •••

^ That's easy. I'll unmark all of the spoilers up to Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Season 1 of Agents Of Shield.

Look, we have many characters the cross over into other films or series (cough cough Howard Stark cough), and there are other film sheets with a similar design pattern to mine like Star Wars. In any case, these sheets are not meant to appeal to those who just started watching the movies.

^^ Did something similar by splitting the heroes and the villains while moving the non-affiliated to the Unsorted page.

Edited by SatoshiBakura
Mar 5th 2015 at 6:55:11 PM •••

I will put Gordon in Unsorted Characters for now. I will move him when more of his personality and alignment is revealed.

May 2nd 2016 at 1:54:56 PM •••

I think we should go back to the way things were. I find this new system highly confusing!

Sep 2nd 2014 at 10:59:07 AM •••

Why is Howard the Duck on this page instead of the Guardians Of The Galaxy sheet? He's only been in that one movie and, to my knowledge, there's no plans on putting him in others.

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Sep 2nd 2014 at 12:18:58 PM •••

I am guessing the statement by James Gunn that they could appear elsewhere as well prompted it.

Sep 2nd 2014 at 1:40:44 PM •••

I never once heard that. In fact, I've heard the exact opposite, that he was put in as a joke and not to expect a lot from him.

And either way... I still don't see why that would get him on this page instead of the GOG one. I'm going to move it to the GOG page.

Mar 19th 2014 at 11:36:57 AM •••

So, where would we put characters like Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch? Should they go on the main character page, or should we create an Avengers-specific character page?

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Nov 21st 2013 at 1:45:09 PM •••

Thanos as the Bigger Bad vs. just Man Behind the Man: He's too directly involved with the plot to be the Man Behind the Man. I suppose he's technically the Man Behind the Man Behind The Man, but he had been directly involved in the plot since before his first appearance.

At the very least, the writeup was specifically about Man Behind the Man and made no indication that he's a Bigger Bad.

EDIT: I'm okay with the current writeup.

Edited by 156.33.241.8
May 9th 2013 at 8:30:10 PM •••

Hmm. With SHIELD now confirmed, a question to ponder. Should we build a SHIELD page for the cast of the show specifically? Or should we build a separate page for all SHIELD characters, including those who don't appear on the TV show?

Oct 4th 2012 at 8:26:17 AM •••

Before I add this in to either this or the Film/Thor Character Sheet, I got to ask everyone's opinion on this:

Would Thor qualify as a Gentle Giant after his Character Development in the film Thor? Or maybe even before being humbled.

He is most certainly a polite gentleman who keeps his promises, before and after; but he is still headstrong and violent all the way through his character arc. I also noticed he has yet to receieve the Nice Guy trope that Steve has in his section.

Any thoughts on the matter?

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Aug 21st 2012 at 1:08:19 PM •••

So, under what circumstances in the future should we take a character or organization under one entry, and split it out into its own folder? I'm specifically thinking in terms of Hydra: if Hydra shows up in a major role outside of Cap sequels, should it get its own folder?

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Sep 1st 2012 at 12:15:27 AM •••

Only if it gets too large. So far HYDRA's just appearing the First Avenger film and First Vengeance comic. SHIELD gets its own folder because there's many Agent characters. But there are only three HYDRA characters.

Edited by Tuckerscreator
Aug 2nd 2012 at 4:04:28 PM •••

Since the folders were getting too large, I've separated them by movie. If you guys prefer the old version, message me and I'll send that format.

Also, if anyone is going to add the new non-SHIELD characters from Item 47, you could put them in Stan Lee's section and rename that folder "Other" or "Bystanders".

Edited by Tuckerscreator
Jul 15th 2012 at 5:24:33 PM •••

Would it be too much to include Stan Lee in the character's list?

May 30th 2012 at 10:48:42 AM •••

Can we stop assuming that the Marvel Loki is Sleipnir's mother? The original Norse Myths and the Marvel Universe are two very different things, and as a fan of both, I'd appreciate if people could try to keep them apart. </rant>

May 25th 2012 at 3:31:12 PM •••

Where is the recent spate of insistance that the Super Soldier serum was finished when the Red Skull took it coming from? Erskine explicitly says in the movie that it "was not ready", though he thought Schmidt's character played a bigger role in the way he turned out.

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May 25th 2012 at 5:49:34 PM •••

Yeah, the reason it wasn't complete in The Incredible Hulk was because Erskine never wrote down the formula before his death. Only Rogers ever got the complete version.

May 27th 2012 at 11:09:52 AM •••

http://marvel.wikia.com/Johann_Schmidt_%28Earth-199999%29

Read here. It says here that he was taken away to make the serum, and so Red Skull took it when he was brought to him "to finish the serum". If you have any deliberate evidence otherwise in the film, fine, but say what that is first. Until then, saying it is unfinished seems less accurate.

Edited by Gregzilla
May 27th 2012 at 5:05:55 PM •••

...Um, "the unfinished serum made Schmidt stronger, however it also caused a combustion reaction that horribly scarred his face, disfiguring its appearance to that of a hideous red skull."

Hitler gave Erskine to Schmidt "to finish the serum", and Schmidt said "screw that" and took it before it was complete. Do you need stronger evidence? It seems weird to be so stuck on this one point.

May 28th 2012 at 8:07:57 AM •••

Okay then, that's all I needed. I misread.

May 24th 2012 at 9:23:54 PM •••

Are the individual character pages for other films necessary since we have this joint page that lists the same characters with the same descriptions and tropes?

And would it be helpful to organize the page differently after release of The Avengers by bringing Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Nick Fury to the top of the Heroes section, and maybe Loki to the top of the Villains? As of now, it's just in order of film release.

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May 27th 2012 at 1:00:39 PM •••

That still seems most appropriate. Loki may be an Avengers antagonist, but he is primarily a Thor villain.

May 21st 2012 at 9:00:06 AM •••

No reason was given for taking away the spoiler tags on many of the items in the characters, particularly Loki. They were spoilered so that people would not get spoilers too early on certain things. I mean, by all means, the Chitauri don't need a spoiler warning (they're introduced within the first FIVE MINUTES of The Avengers, BEFORE the humans even are shown), but Loki? I don't think that's really called for.

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AP
May 25th 2012 at 2:54:54 AM •••

I took off many of them. The tropes themselves are not supposed to be covered up and many of the spoilers were shown in trailers, are now examples of It Was His Sled, or simply did not spoil anything at all. Is it really that much of a spoiler that Thanos is played by some obscure actor?

And honestly, Thanos' name should not be a spoiler since his picture is clearly visible. Comic fans will come onto this page and instantly recognize him. For the average non-comic reader, they have no idea who Thanos is anyway so seeing his name spoils nothing.

May 21st 2012 at 4:01:50 PM •••

Monster hunter from a family of them. A bit like Van Helsing (or maybe the Belmonts). Her dad is Ulysses, another Marvel character. She had her own series and she was in Nextwave, but she's fairly obscure, I think?

Aug 25th 2011 at 9:57:37 AM •••

This page isn't needed, since we have a Character Sheet for each individual movie.

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May 17th 2012 at 3:52:34 PM •••

Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk don't, and neither do the many third party characters like Maria Hill or Nick Fury. Ax this page, and you lose a lot of useful info.

Oct 24th 2012 at 12:43:09 PM •••

Ironically we have to split it now anyway, since it's over 500K and on the list of "big pages that need splitting", so it might be worth revisiting this matter. Should we just straight out split it, or should we move the tropes for each movie to their individual character sheets and keep this only for franchise-wide things like SHIELD and original characters from the One-Shots?

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