Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
I’m not feeling any real brilliance from Greg or Lucia, or charm from Venee. Yes to Kraven.
I'll give a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Greg.
I've got a BIG Equestria at War proposal cooking up (most guys only show up in one or two paths, this guy shows up in like four) but I've a question for another guy I've been wondering.
His name is Pea Shooter and at game start he's the guy in charge of Tobuck, where he with his cronies have taken it to sell his guns and launder the money to take back home to his family, distracting said cronies from finding out that he plans to leave them for dead.
I think he's magnificent and bastardly enough, but my issue is that he lacks ambition compared to the rest of the cast, who usually have plans to reform their countries in the long-term; he's more "get in, get out, help my family."
Is that legitimately a deal-breaker or I am just going crazy?
Edited by Koopa22 on Feb 3rd 2023 at 6:51:29 AM
Simultaneously hands-on and hands-off with my life.
Man in the Yellow Hat
I doubt it. He's not ambitious, but he's still goal-orientated. The fact the goal is sympathetic, given he wishes to help his family, also betters his chances in my eyes.
He/Him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
OK, I might write him up tommorrow once I get the chance
Also, before I go to bed, is there something up with the write-up moving process? Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think any of the approved ones have moved to the main MB page as of yet
Edited by Koopa22 on Feb 3rd 2023 at 7:40:39 AM
Simultaneously hands-on and hands-off with my life.
Yes to another Kraven and Greg.
RIP Toriyama
Sure to Kraven and Greg!
- Unicron Trilogy: Starscream here is presented as one of his most cunning, dangerous and even noble adaptations. In Armada, Starscream is a tragic and troubled warrior who regularly proves himself the most courageous and convincted Decepticon. Regularly outdoing those around him to claim powerful tools, Starscream eventually turns on Megatron out of sheer disgust at his master's evil. Starscream then becomes a valuable ally to the Autobots in freeing the Mini-Con slaves and stopping Megatron from destroying the Earth. Starscream's nobility is so strong that he nearly humbles Megatron and sacrifices his own life to inspire the Decepticons and Autobots to team up against Unicron, his death mourned by friend and foe alike. Revived in Energon, an amnesiac Starscream shows himself to be as deadly as ever, nearly assassinating both Optimus Prime and Megatron before swearing fierce loyalty to the latter and enacting countless schemes to perfection on his part. By the time of Cybertron, Starscream has embraced his own ambition and schemes to rule the universe. He feigns loyalty to Megatron before betraying him and invading Earth with a Decepticon army of his own, after which Starscream thrashes and outwits the entire Autobot team. Claiming the Omega Lock, Starscream duels with Primus more than once in an attempt to claim godlike power, surviving each time, and even when eventually beaten by Galvatron in a final battle, Starscream accepts his defeat and inspires Galvatron into continuing his own personal quest for power.
Edited by Ravok on Feb 3rd 2023 at 10:01:09 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
I hate spoilers
Here's another EP from Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS.
Who is Ai?
Ai is the playful, humorous Deuteragonist of the series and serves as Yusaku's partner (since the franchise loves the Cast of Expies trope, he's VRAINS' answer to Yami Yugi. He's an Artificial Intelligence with free will, whose very existence drives much of the plot forward. This comes to a head when he becomes the Villain Protagonist of Season 3, pulling a Face–Heel Turn. This is because after Bohman's defeat, Ai visited a cave where the evil Lightning had left a posthumous message in the event that he was defeated. The message showed him simulations of what would happen if Ai continued to exist. In each one, humanity was annihilated. Beginning his crusade, Ai targeted Queen of SOL Technologies to get Revenge for her killing his friend Earth. This attracts the attention of the rest of the main cast, who set out to stop him. In reality, Ai is trying to provoke Yusaku into Staking the Loved One in order to save humanity from himself. As a villain, Ai creates his @Ignister deck, which he uses to give a Curb-Stomp Battle to several characters in the series. It takes a long, grueling duel with Playmaker to finally take him down, and even then, Ai still somehow manages to return (though this is an Unexplained Recovery that occurs in the literal last few seconds of the series).
Magnificence?
Ai is Beware the Silly Ones incarnate. He was never outright stupid, but now he's been promoted to The Chessmaster. His attack on Queen, the head of SOL Technologies, was done to attract attention from the heroes so that he can pick them off until he's defeated, invoking Duels Decide Everything. His plan is a Self-Sacrifice Scheme mixed with Zero-Approval Gambit to ensure that no one will miss him after he passes. This is foreshadowed when Revolver, who had come to respect him as a person says that he can kill him without remorse. His @Ignister deck centers around swarming the field with strong monsters while being able to search for cards so that he'll continue to have resources. When targeting the Honest Corporate Executive Akira Zaizen who is on a plane to try to escape him, he uses an android body called SOLtis, which allows him to detect when his altitude is changing. This feature is used to tell when the plane is landing, which gives Ai the cue to hack the plane's systems, causing it to continue flying so Zaizen can't escape. Revolver creates an AI with limited free will called Pandor, who analyzes Ai's strategies so that his opponents can try to keep up with him. Ai still manages to pull one over on the heroes by adapting to their counter strategies and beating them regardless. Despite all of the antagonizing, Ai expects that Yusaku needs more motivation to kill him, which is why he threatens to spread his free will across countless SOLtis which will become completely unpredictable in their future actions. Ai was able run simulations of how his duels would turn out against everyone, and despite Yusaku being the exception, he still put up a good fight. Ai only lost because of an unexpected card that Revolver gave Yusaku while he was on his way to meet Ai, as well as his last move allowing Yusaku to use a card with strict activation conditions to win the duel. After failing multiple times to reason with Ai, Yusaku finishes him off and gets a heartfelt farewell.
Is he a Bastard? Too much?
He's far from the most hatable villain in this show, but Ai still causes trouble, even if it's to prevent a worse calamity. With the exception of Queen, all of Ai's targets were good people who were rendered comatose until his defeat. He also makes it clear that his SOLtis copies may or may not do bad things, and ending his life would be the only way to prevent an uncertain future from happening. Thankfully, he's a good sport about it all and gives Yusaku a fair chance at stopping him by not running a simulation of who would win. It also helps that Yusaku is arguably the franchise's biggest Invincible Hero, and is content with his loss.
Any Mitigating Factors?
Regarding Lightning's premonition, Ai's decision to be killed was his alone. It was him reacting and adapting to Lightning's message, not an intentional manipulation, so he's not a pawn.
Final Verdict
Does he count? Up to you.
Everyone look at my sandbox
Yes to Kraven and Greg.
I'm gonna finally get these over and done with before moving back to Fallout.
- Discworld:
- Men at Arms: Dr. Cruces is the leader of the Ankh-Morpork Assassin's Guild and the true antagonist once he murders Edward d'Eath and takes the Gonne for his own ambitions. Cruces betrays his student Edward when he tries to return the Gonne he stole, hides his body in the old sewers beneath the city, and plots to use the dead man as a scapegoat for an assassination of Patrician Havelock Vetinari due to everyone knowing the Guild was the victim of Edward's heist. Leading the Night Watch into a trap when they first try to catch him, Cruces only fails in killing Vetinari when Corporal Carrot takes the bullet but manages to cripple the Patrician for life regardless. Caught by Captain Vimes and slain by Carrot during a last stand, Cruces was said to have succeeded in a million universes had a series of extraordinary coincidences not allowed the Watch to unravel his plans.
- Soul Music: The Music is an entity born at the dawn of time that seeks to spread Rock n' Roll throughout the cosmos. Observing young bard Imp y Celyn's vow to be the greatest musician in the world, the Music lies and waits in a magical instrument shop as a guitar until Imp takes it to replace his broken harp. Slowly and insidiously, the Music dominates the newly renamed Buddy and uses him to spread itself throughout the Discworld. The Music proves clever and ensures its propagation by playing off its listeners' inner rebellious nature to create copy bands to play further afield and allows itself to be trapped in magical boxes that play it whenever opened. Coming into conflict with Death and his granddaughter Susan when she seeks to save Buddy, Death is forced to play the chord that will end the universe to drive the Music from the Discworld, only for it start the cycle all over again on another.
Dagded Dujardin
I'm thinking for Ai. His final gambit was pretty brilliant tbh
Goku Black
Kraven and AI
With Danganronpa currently being relitigated in the other thread, didn't someone say they were going to do Izuru Kamukura and/or Kokichi Oma for this? I think both could potentially fit. The reason kokichi was disqualified in the first place was due to some colorful comments he makes about Miu Iruma. Miu gets off on these comments, and Kokichi's vulgarity is not seen as anything more than him being a dark example of The Gadfly. Yes to Kraven and Ai.
Edited by Klavice on Feb 4th 2023 at 2:18:30 AM
Thought I'd clear out a few more Artix Entertainment keepers that I never got round to before the thread lock.
Returning to DragonFable, candidate is Captain Blackberry one of the Big Bads of the Wind Orb Saga, specifically the Pirate half.
What is the work?
Here's a refresher: The game follows the adventures of "The Hero" who journeys through Lore while battling against Sepulchure, the Evil Overlord of the Shadowscythe. The Hero eventually discovers the existence of Elemental Orbs and that Sepulchure is after them. Leading to an Infinity Stones-esque race to find them before Sepulchure does. The first of the Orbs to appear is the Wind Orb located on Sho Nuff Island, home of the pirates and ninjas who are always at war for reasons.
Who is Captain Blackberry and what has he done?
Captain Blackberry is the pirate captain of the Red Betty, one of the most feared pirate ships sailing the seas, and also the pirate crew that the Hero allies with.
20 years before the events of the story, Blackberry came across a spell in a sunken treasure chest, which could transform him into a deity. He wove the spell into the very structure of the ship and set out to find the Wind Orb. Eventually Blackberry found the notes of the legendary pirate Captain Crossbone who discovered that the Wind Orb was located in a location known as the Ruins of Kordana (a crashed mecha from several millennia ago prior to a Cosmic Retcon).
Blackberry led the pirates to believe that the "Wind Pearl" would be used to help them control the seas, keeping his true goals under wraps. Many pirates were sent to seek out the Wind Pearl, but all failed. Eventually Blackberry decided to change strategies, leaked the location of the Wind Orb to Sepulchure himself, so that Sepulchure's agent would recover the Orb for him. Sepulchure would send his main servant, Drakath. By the time the Hero navigates through Kordana, Drakath has long gone, having successfully stolen the Wind Orb.
Drakath's location is tracked down by Blackberry, who sends the Hero to dispatch Drakath and recover the Wind Orb, promising the Hero they will be rewarded. However when the Hero fights against their old adversary, the Wind Orb activates and knocks the Hero back while transporting Drakath to the Red Betty.
Now in possession of the activated Wind Orb, Blackberry explains to both the Hero and Drakath how he used the two of them: as only an encounter between the Orb's wielder (Drakath) and "their greatest foe" (the Hero) would activate the Orb. The activated Wind Orb would then be summoned by the Red Betty and the spell would be completed.
Blackberry then begins his transformation into a godlike sea monster known as the King Braken, shifting into a Cthulhumanoid. While Drakath chooses to flee, the Hero challenges “Brakenberry” before he completes his metamorphosis and manages to defeat him.
However, the former pirate captain turned sea monster isn’t dead yet. Having completed his transformation into the King Braken, a titanic Kraken like monster, he is vengeful over the Hero and willing to tear apart Osprey Cove to get to them. He is defeated by the Hero a second time via their Dragon Lord form.
How is he Magnificent? Competition?
For an early baddie, Blackberry really stood out in intelligence where he plays the Hero, the pirates, and Drakath with ease. He basically pulls off The Bad Guy Wins where he achieves what he set out to do, even if he was defeated afterwards due to plot. But otherwise, he never gets outsmarted even once.
Personality is a little trickier. As a pirate, one can expect him to be a bit of hostility when he talks and he does make some implied threats over failure. But overall he reigns it in and can choose to be reasonably polite during manipulations.
Also worth mentioning, the Hero and Drakath do try to taunt him over his half-man half-squid appearance, where he snarks along by mentioning a pirate whose name sounded like a cereal. But otherwise he is completely unshaken and keeps his dignity composed.
Too much of a Bastard?
He's definitely no saint, but he never does anything over-the-top evil. He states that after transforming into a sea monster he intended to eat the Hero and Drakath. He also attempted to lay waste to Osprey Cove to get to the Hero. But overall he really pales in comparison to later villains, who both outdo him in scale and personal villainy. For direct comparison to another Bad Boss Godhood Seeker and one of his immediate successors, Sek-Duat, the tyrant of the Sandsea, who spent centuries oppressing his people and intended to sacrifice 100 of them to give himself eternal life.
The only instance of personal nastiness is a Noodle Incident where he was stated to be responsible for gouging his first mate, Rhubarb's eye out, because his dinner was delivered cold. But it's a one-off that is never really played for horror and Rhubarb for the most doesn't seem to care in the present day.
Final verdict?
I think he makes it
Edited by Snowy66 on Mar 3rd 2023 at 12:52:49 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Kraven, Greg, AI, Blackberry
Apologies for the delay of my writeups, real life is being a mf at the moment I'll get to them soon dw.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
Blackberry.
Yes to. blackberry Batman
- Zombie, Bird, and Trogg are Bane's three accomplices and former fellow inmates of Peña Duro during his first sojourn to Gotham City, and are impressive figures on their own and as a team. Zombie witnesses Bane's birth and cares for his dying mother. Trogg offers to protect a young Bane from a pedophile if he will sneak into tight places before Bane proves his own mettle. The falconer known as Bird initiates an alliance with Bane by sending him messages during his solitary confinement, and first sells him on the idea of going to Gotham City to fight Bird's underworld enemies and Batman. After their escape from prison, Zombie reproduces the Venom formula from memory while Trogg creates the Venom tank. They play crucial roles in causing a mass breakout at Arkham Asylum to wear down Batman, and also provide serious challenges to Batman and Robin with their own unique combat styles. Their loyalty to Bane never wavers, and even after being arrested, they scoff at the notion of betraying him in exchange for leniency.
Next Batman EP: Johnny Witts
Johnny Witts is a recurring Silver Age gangsters who specializes in planning ahead and who debuts in ‘’Detective Comics 344’’, has an accomplice spend weeks disguised as a kindly old apple vendor who always gives Robin apples but then has her act suspicious and frightened while another gang member conducts conspicuous Sinister Surveillance nearby so they’ll think someone forced her to drug the apple and will follow the man who was watching them. They have a conversation the heroes spy on talking about how with Batman taking Robin to the hospital due to the poisoned apple, they can conduct a caper.
Batman stays, hanging from a rope and listening while Robin hides in the trunk of some departing gang members. But then they pull over and hold him at gunpoint while revealing they knew he’d be hiding there. When he runs, he falls into a pit trap nearby. The goons call Witts who then casually calls out the window to reveal his plan to Batman and his knowledge Batman is there. He reveals he has a goon on the roof who could have cut the rope any time. Batman dives through the window. Witts ducks into a room where Batman follows but it is a room with a drop like an elevator shaft and Witts is clinging to a bar nearby while Batman almost falls and narrowly survives Witts kicking at him before the villain escapes and yank away the bat-rope so Batman can’t climb after him from the window.
He knows Batman and an escaped Robin will pursue the phony Apple Alice and put a tracer on her and has her covertly remove the tracer before leading them on a wild goose chase while Johnny and his men commit crimes and then plan to capture Batman and Robin once she leads them into a trap. However, Batman is wearing a second tracking device himself and the police come and help catch the gang. Johnny struggles to think of an escape plan during the fight but can’t quite manage to until he’s a prisoner. He consoles himself by knowing that he would have still beaten Batman if he’d had a little more time to finish that plan. He escapes from prison in Batman 192 and assumes the guise of a crime boss called the Swami while using his wits to figure out things in advance and seem psychic. He has one member of a Quirky Miniboss Squad deliberately get captured while having information with his address and wearing clothes that can be rigged to have glowing letters that say “I am Batman” and make their wearer get stuck to a chair. As he planned, Batman will disguise himself as the guy. As the swami, Witts claims to psychically identify Batman with a crystal ball and trap him in his chair with telekinesis.
He privately reveals the truth (and catches Robin in a waiting trap door as he comes. Witts uses a Silver Age style weird invention to try to drain Batman’s intelligence before killing the two. They then pursue Witts to a museum (since the crystal ball where he supposedly identified Batman also showed the next robbery location) and since he thought Batman was dead, he doesn’t have a plan handy to use and is beaten. In Batman 201, he and several other villains, including A-listers, are recruited by Penguin to foil a bunch of traps ruthless out of town gangsters are setting against Batman (as they want to beat him themselves and know the out-of-towners will see them as rivals and target them next if Batman dies). Witts almost quits due to them not knowing who tipped them off but agrees to stay. Witts saves Batman from a big explosion while remaining in the shadows and looks forward to their next fight. In Super Friends 26 he learns the Wonder Twins are in town and by surveilling knowing civil friends of Batman, he finds out where they are staying incognito. As they leave that house he and accomplices disguises as the Super Friends race past them and yell for the twins to come foil a robbery. With strong man dressed liek Superman (and wearing a bulletproof vest) a trick roper impersonating Wonder Woman and more, they stage foiling a robbery and then, dressed as Batman, Witts invites the Wonder Twins to have lunch with him at his civilian place, planning to follow them there, learn who Batman is and kill him. He set up that robbery in advance, using the thieves he and his gang subdue as unwitting pawns.
However, the Wonder Twins see through the trap due to things Johnny mostly couldn’t control (the roping style of the fake Wonder Woman being slightly different, Johnny not being the same size as Batman and having the lifts he wore to hide that being visible for a second during the fight, and the real Batman knowing the Wonder Twins already had lunch plans). They lead him to a fake house where Superman is disguised as Batman and reveals himself after they all shoot him and Johnny takes the precaution of checking his vital signs to make sure he is dead. The real Superfriends emerge to overpower the gang. Johnny gloats he at least knows the Wonder Twin’s identities, but they have disguised doubles trick him into thinking he was wrong the whole time, which he accepts with grace but disappointment.
He never reappears again until the DC Rebirth continuity, but I think by the standards of the thread his appearances there don’t count one way or another.
Is he Magnificent?
He has some particularly brilliant plans that leave Batman and Robin helpless or trick them into doing exactly what he wants. He respects Batman in a worthy opponent way. And while he spends a lot of time boasting about his intellect he is a relatively Benevolent Boss to his various goons. Despite his pride in his intelligence, he is able to recognize when he makes mistakes and is fairly composed in defeat.
Is he a bastard?
He is a thief who sets lots of death traps.
Any Mitigating factors
Pride and Complexity Addiction keep him from killing Batman outright if Batman won’t know he’s beaten, but he’s little worse than most villains in either regard.
Edited by Melinda on Feb 4th 2023 at 6:00:07 AM
Yes to Ai and a big ahoy to Blackberry!
Mel mind fixing the formatting on that a bit so it's easier to read?
to Ai and Blackberry
Not the Eye
Yes to Kraven, Gred, AI, captain Blackberry.
Any more votes for Venee, since not many people voted on him.
to Venee
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 4th 2023 at 12:06:35 PM
Goku Black
Isnt his name Vaneé?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Apperently yes, my mistake.
Vanee, Greg, Ai
Edited by Snowy66 on Feb 4th 2023 at 9:10:26 AM
All of the eps in my backlog come from google notes and for some reason a lot of the time when I copy and past from there it messes up the format no matter how differently I do spaces or paragraph breaks between bolded section, so I am using folders for the parts I couldn't fix.
Yes to Ai.
I have two unrelated Batman candidates left: one of whom is the villain of one issue and one of whom is a neutral character who only appears in four panels of one Batman: No Man's Land issue. Any chance I could treat Batman as one work just for the purposes of making two more short eps today instead of one?
Is four panels adequate to show enough characterization for this?
Oh wait it's now a new page so here’s my second candidate from The White Lotus. A little less sure on this guy but hey here it goes Greg Hunt.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Greg Hunt is an official working at Bureau of Land Management and a recurring guest in various White Lotus resorts making his debut in the first season, Hawaii, where he meets Tanya and the two falling in love and start a relationship with Tanya’s wealth curing whatever illness is killing Greg and eventually marry before Season 2, Sicily begins.
However their relationship has become strain but Greg doesn’t want to divorce Tanya because he’ll end up with nothing since Tanya has gotten a prenup, so instead he plots to have her killed hiring an assassin living in Sicily, Quentin, to do the deed for Greg promising to pay Quentin after he kills Tanya since Tanya is rich.
Greg would then convince Tanya to come to the White Lotus in Sicily to see him to make is easier for Quentin to kill. Once Tanya shows up Greg decides to leave telling Tanya that he has to take care of business and will return in a couple, but in reality it is to give Greg an alibi so he won’t be accused of killing Tanya where Quentin then swoops by and takes Tanya and her assistant Portia to Palermo.
Quentin would then have his nephew (but in reality sex partner) Jack distract Portia while he takes Tanya to the yacht full of homosexuals where they then decide to kill her there. However Tanya grabs a guns and shots indiscriminately killing Quentin and most of his guys before jumping on the other boat to escape, only to hit her neck on it and drown, thus Greg is able to successfully kill Tanya and get all of her money while not having to worry about paying Quentin since he’s already dead.
Is He Intelligent? Is He Charismatic?
When Greg is first introduced in Hawaii he has a charming, calm, and likable guy whose charisma caused Tanya to fall for Greg and eventually marry him. Even when Greg plots to kill Tanya he still retains his calm and charm even when Tanya brings her assistant against Greg’s wishes where Greg has his men keep Portia away while his assassins kill Tanya basically orchestrating an assassination ploy while being physically away cement Greg as intelligent.
What’s The Competition Like?
Greg is a different type of bastard from Lucia being a mastermind behind a complex assassination plot which works flawlessly, regardless of what obstacles he faced (Portia arriving with Tanya, Greg’s assassins getting killed).
While Quentin may also be charming and I was also considering him too, Quentin gets unceremoniously killed by Tanya and it’s implied that Quentin force his “nephew”, Jack, to be his sex partner in exchange for living with him (unless someone can argue otherwise), while Greg serves as the Man Behind the Man to Quentin, never forces anyone to have sex with Greg (his sex with Tanya is always consensual) survives and gets everything he wants by the end. For those wondering none of the other guests or employees in both seasons count with them either being not bastard enough or too entitled and petty that it takes away from the magnificence.
Is He a Bastard? Is He Too much of a Bastard?
Well Greg plots a have his own wife (an innocent woman BTW) murdered when their marriage goes sour so that he can inherit all of her money so I’d say he enough of a bastard to be considered. That said, Greg doesn’t commit any deplorable crimes nor is cruel or petty and does spare Tanya’s assistant where she is simply taken to the nearest airport, so yeah not too much of a bastard.
Final Verdict?
I’ll leave it to you guys to decide
Edited by G-Editor on Feb 3rd 2023 at 10:16:27 AM