During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Voltan
Yeah HT just summed up the opinions of Mir and I on the Bonds. There's one or two allies of Bond that may be worth looking into that I plan to go over as well
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
The Moron
- Eggman (Dawgo)
- Nidohogg & Eshu (Mir)
- Dregg (Papyru)
- The Pied Piper (Ravok)
- Kamen Rider Ex-Aid: Another Ending Kuruto Dan (Reddish)
- Ruggan Born (Scrags)
- Lighty:
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Apr 18th 2022 at 4:32:10 AM
Sonic Adventure 2's Rouge should go, on the Sonic page, right under Shadow's entry for that game.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Feel like I've been slacking in the proposal department so how about... a proposal? I'll get to reading the other E Ps in a sec as well.
What is the work?
Aladdin and the King of Thieves is the second sequel in the Disney Aladdin series. Aladdin and Jasmine are finally about to get married. Everyone is overjoyed, but Aladdin is saddened by the fact that none of his family can be present, as his mother died when he was young and his father left the family. At the same time, the Forty Thieves is plotting to raid the ceremony and steal all the valuables. The thieves are fought off, after which the heroes discover that they were after a specific artefact — a staff containing an oracle spirit who will truthfully answer a single question. Aladdin discovers that his father has long been trapped in the world of the Forty Thieves, and goes on a quest to rescue him. Now, Aladdin's father Cassim (The titular character) is listed as a MB but he's not the character I want to propose, that will be the film's antagonist Sa'Luk, played gloriously by Jerry Orbach (RIP)
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Sa'Luk is a hulking brute who was with the 40 thieves before Cassim became their new leader. First introduced being smuggled in baskets with the other 40 thieves to storm The Sultan's palace to commit a mass robbery, Sa'Luk initiates the assault when Cassim gives the signal to attack by causing an elephant stampede. While Cassim searches for the sceptre which can aid him to look for the hand of Midas. Sa'Luk is seen dealing with two guards that go to kill him by destroying their weapons (and clothes) with his claw. When Genie starts interfering with the other thieves, Sa'Luk orders them to leave (not a Dirty Coward moment because Genie is full of magic unlike him and the thieves who are mere humans.)
When Aladdin sneaks into the Thieves' lair he stops Sa'Luk who was about to initiate a mutiny due to Cassim constantly leading them on a wild goose chase looking for the Hand Of Midas. Sa'Luk tries to kill Aladdin, Abu and Iago under the pretence that they know too much until Cassim interferes by letting Aladdin take the challenge to become a new member which involves killing another in which Sa'Luk volunteers himself. Sa'Luk and Aladdin engage in a fight with Sa'Luk almost winning until Aladdin kicks off a cliff to his presumed death. It's revealed that Sa'Luk survived and killed a shark that tried to eat him.
Sa'Luk makes his way to Agrabah and reveals the location and how to access the Thieves' Hideout to Razoul, the head guard of Agrabah in exchange for immunity from being arrested, leading to 31 of the thieves being arrested and locked up. When Sa'Luk finds out that Cassim and Aladdin wasn't arrested he informs Razoul that Cassim is the king of thieves and Aladdin's father leading to his arrest when Razoul ambushes him.
Sa'Luk returns to the Thieves' lair where the remaining ones were and manipulates them that Cassim was the traitor and convinces them to return to the olden ways of thievery by pillaging and taking what they want, through VILLAIN SONG FORM of course, intending on creating a new group of thieves and going on a new wave of thievery. When Cassim and Iago return to the lair after escaping Agrabah, Sa'Luk ambushes them and has them tied up and has Cassim use the sceptre to ask the Oracle where the Hand Of Midas is, setting ship to the location, although Iago managed to escape undetected.
The heroes tail the oracle's light to the isle and attack the thieves, with Aladdin knocking Sa'Luk out temporarily. When Aladdin and Cassim find the Hand, Sa'Luk ambushes them and demands the Hand or else he'll kill Aladdin. Cassim throws the hand to Sa'Luk who catches it before revealing he was going to kill Aladdin anyway. Unfortunately for Sa'Luk he caught the Hand by the Hand itself which then turned him into solid gold (for plot reasons the Hand didn't instantly transform him until the reveal despite it showing it's an instant transformation), dropping his body into the rising water.
Is he Magnificent?
Far from just being a stereotypical brute, Sa'Luk showcases a manipulative side with convincing Razoul to pardon him while he allows him to arrest the thieves. Then manipulating the remaining thieves that Cassim was the traitor that got them arrested, (Song was also catchy.) Him ordering the thieves to retreat at the palace raid? Know When to Fold Them because you know, a literal genie got involved. He's not a coward when it comes to fights and only showcases one instance of fear, when he realised he held the Hand wrong before his death.
Is He A Bastard
"Yes, Cassim! Mercy would be so like you! Soft and weak!". Yeah Sa'Luk makes no statement that he's a good guy. He's constantly talking back to Cassim and tries to have Aladdin killed when he reveals that he's Cassim's son under the pretence that He Knows Too Much. Obviously revealing the Thieves' lair to Razoul is also a bastard action. He says he preferred it before Cassim made the thieves "soft" but there's no demonstration of that so I don't think that hurts him too much...
Final Verdict?
If it wasn't for his cause of death, I'd say he'd be a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
but because that happened and that it was caused by Cassim (the film's MB) makes me unsure. Thoughts?
EDIT: Delta, Volton
Abstain on Ian
Edited by WetFlannels on Apr 16th 2022 at 4:42:10 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Professor Gigachad
I am rather unsure on Sa'Luk, I mean yeah the guy isn't like technically evil enough for CM (just saying as a point of reference) but everything I have heard about him is that he really loves being a sadistic bastard and those traits are played up while his magnificent traits are downplayed, that combined with the whole defeated by Cassiam angle makes me lean towards a ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
though I could be persuaded otherwise.
This is why I was hesitant to do Sa'Luk. While he otherwise hits the hallmarks, his wanting to try to kill Aladdin anyway in the end comes off as petty and his catching the Hand wrong comes off as not being smart too. I'm gonna think on him for a bit.
Here's the EP I did on Cassim for reference. I also bring up thoughts on Sa'Luk there.
Yeah, Jerry Orbach is great in the role and "Are You In or Out?" is a fun Villain Song too. Appropriate timing as Gilbert Gottfried was Iago as well.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 16th 2022 at 9:50:54 AM
Yes to Sa’Luk. I’d been contemplating him myself.
I won't vote on Sa'luk as I haven't seen the film, but based on what I'm reading I'm not sure I get the impression he qualifies.
Edited by ReddishGuy1 on Apr 16th 2022 at 9:59:27 AM
Just imagine something here.
Ordering for the AC Valhalla stuff is as such:
- Loki
- Alfred
- Eogan
- Odo
- Dwarf
Ruggan Bor.
I'm gonna be a on Sa'Luk. While he does seem more cunning than your average brute, he gets played big time by Cassim and makes a stupid decision that results in his death. It's such a shameful way to go out that I don't see him count.
to Sa'Luk.
For another Order of the Stick MB, how about Minister Malack? Does anyone else think he might be a contender?
It is I, the narrator, categorising addict and writer of books you haven't read.
Yes to Volton. Switching to no to Ian. No Sa'Lux.
Edited by YobabyColin on Apr 17th 2022 at 8:26:54 AM
To be fair to Sa'Luk, it isn't as if he knew that grabbing the hand would turn humans to gold the same way it did inanimate objects. Also, anyone who hasn't seen the movie should Iat least see this clip (while keeping in mind that Sa'luk is the real one who ratted out the group) before making up their mind. I stick with my
Work The Goblin Emperor is a fantasy novel about the Unexpected Successor of an elven kingdom’s emperor, who struggles to fit in to his new position due to his political inexperience (he got treated like a Madwoman in the Attic) and half-goblin status. The investigation into the assassination of his father and half brothers looms in the background
Character
Aina Shulivar is the man who built the bomb responsible for the assassination. He used to be a clockmaker, until he was expelled from their Guild. He is of part goblin descent like Maia protagonist. He is part of a organization advocating for the spiritual and material uplifting of workers. Prior to the beginning, A group of grasping aristocrats who want to increase their power hire him and two of his fellows to bomb the emperor’s airship ship to increase their own power once their leader marries the emperor’ daughters (which will let him seize power). Shulivar raise his bosses however, knowing that they they will be terrible rulers. Is supposed to put US dummy bomb on the airship a couple months before the wedding just to test whether it can be concealed, but instead puts a real bomb causing an explosion which kills 23 people, including the emperor and his older sons. He does this because then his supposed employers will have no leverage to secure their power and instead Maia will become emperor.
Shulivar is found out and exposed after a few months and arrested. When questioned by Maia, he shows no discomfort or fear and reveals that his goal was to get Maia made emperor due to correctly gambling someone of his oppressed background would enact sweeping reforms that neither the cold-hearted and prone to compromising emperor or his evil would-be usurper would have ever done. He acknowledges that his bomb caused a great deal of harm and death, but feels that this is nothing compared to the death and suffering of so many workers under conditions that Maia is in a position to change.
He is executed offscreen at the beginning of the next chapter.
Magnificent
Shulivar plays everyone in the book, setting up a bomb to kill the emperor, but double-crossing his Co conspirators to ensure that the new emperor is someone who will enact the much needed changes that he approves of (more rights for workers and possibly more rights for women. He is calm about being a kill killed for what he has done.
Bastard
Good intentions or not, his bomb kills twenty three people, and puts the families of the airship workers at risk of starving in the winter without their providers.
Possible Mitigating factors
It’s mentioned that he and a female coconspirator have had long arguments about whether men are naturally inferior to women but Ambiguous Syntax makes it possible the women is a Female Misogynist and Shulivar argues against her. However he later mentions how Maia has promoted a woman to a previously all-male bodyguard order as something his father would never have done and seems to approve. However, he might just mean that as a pragmatic example of Maia’s general progressiveness which he approves of.
Edited by Melinda on Apr 17th 2022 at 5:34:19 AM
to Ruggan Bor, Count Odo, Jaqen H'ghar, Hades, Nova Artino, the Pied Piper, Louis Mozart, Robin Baxter, Delta and Voltan Polgar.
Abstain on Aina Shulivar, he sounds like he checks the boxes but just setting off an actual bomb when you told your employers it was a dud doesn't feel that magnificent.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He also seemingly fools his Ax-Crazy boss into thinking it was an honest mistake given how no action is taken against him. Also, while not stated directly, it's implied he may have convinced them to pu the dud bomb on the ship prior to the real one as a test specifically to derail their plans (his boss's don't seem like the kind of people smart enough to think about a test).
@Melinda There's nothing to indicate he doesn't know what the Hand of Midas does given the legend—even with the team possibly not being aware of Cassim's plan to get the Hand until later on. As I said in my EP for Cassim, he nearly makes the same mistake as Sa'Luk when Aladdin throws it to him, but then he catches it with his cape instead. Right before that too, Cassim also warns Aladdin about touching the actual hand section.
Sa'Luk's motivation is also that he hates Cassim for being compassionate and wants him gone, meaning hurting Aladdin to do so regardless of the circumstances. His betraying the team and setting up Cassim for it is a good ploy certainly, but it doesn't speak to Sa'Luk having the clear charisma with the team beyond just the song and even then, he also bullies the seven left during the song. It doesn't bode well for him that he's jerkish for no reason despite his smarter moments too.
I could see the argument that what Sa'Luk does to the team really isn't that bad though and that the movie doesn't outright say he's aware of what the Hand can do—his saying Little "No" a few and then Big "NO!" a couple times may mean he did or only just realized in that moment. Not gonna outright reject him, but can't really say yes either though.
So ultimately, I fall on the side of abstain.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 20th 2022 at 7:38:12 AM
Abstain on Aina.
Showtime!
The bomb thing doesn't give me pause with Aina, it's the possible Misogyny. Abstain on him.
As for Sa'luk, why shouldn't he expect that it would turn sentient creatures into gold just like inanimate objects? Sa'luk.
Another thing about Shulivar is that after stating his reasons and belief his actions were worth their cost, he dismisses Maia, the emperor and his interrogator, with polite nod as if he's the one in charge of the execution then returns to wait for his trial and certain execution.
Bork ribs with extra beef
Abstain on Sa'Luk— death aside, I feel like I should watch King of Thieves itself first. Also abstain on Aina since I feel there may be some over-idealism in his attempts to put Maia on the throne, given the collateral damage despite his planning and trickery. And the elements of misogyny that've been mentioned here, too. Not giving a definite vote to either at the moment.
Aight then, I've had this one in mind for nearly a year or so but never got around to doing it until now. I've checked and there isn't any other point in time where my specific candidate was proposed, and I don't think anyone else is really gonna try checking it out. So… baby's first Effort Post. Let's get to it. Apologies in advance for length/verbosity.
What's the work?
The work is Sonic GT by developer Gabriel "NotSoGreedy" Gonzalez, a completed 3D Sonic the Hedgehog fan game which can best be described as a return to the Adventure formula, albeit with a moveset that mixes and matches a few other elements from across the series' history (like the Drop Dash), more sprawling level design, and a combo system that rewards skillful play.
To top it off, the game also has a fully voice-acted story modenote about our main duo Sonic and Tails teaming up with their old pal Mighty the Armadillo, as Ray's currently being held hostage by a certain egg-shaped schemer…
Who is Dr. Eggman? What did he do?
Or rather "he's the Eggman, but what's his master plan?" since y'all probably already know this guy. Big, round, loud, proud, wants to be crowned, wants to take Sonic down, smart and mustache. The usual.
Anyways, said master plan involves Eggman reverse-engineering Mighty's rock-hard armadillo shell to make his creations more hardy. Hence, he kidnaps Ray and sends Mighty a ransom note that orders him to show up at the Ocean Paradise if he wants to see his best friend again. But in true Eggman fashion, it turns out to be a trap, with Mighty being promptly overwhelmed by Eggman's robots and shoved into the ground, giving Eggman a chance to quietly nab a sample of Mighty's shell.
Soon after, a nearby Sonic and Tails notice, and Mighty is promptly rescued. Tails then discovers that Eggman's gone back to mining Hill Top Zone for goodies, so the three head there to beat the badnik commanding the operation, planning to hack the distress signal it would give to track down Eggman's coordinates. Meanwhile, Eggman reveals to Ray that he had arranged for Sonic and Tails to join Mighty in his search, and that he plans to eventually dissect Mighty for (the rest of) his shell in due time.
After the good guys trash Eggman's mining operation in Hill Top Zone but only manage to get incomplete data from the badnik commander, the good doctor contacts Sonic to taunt him about Hill Top's imminent eruption, with the heroes only escaping in the nick of time. However, thanks to some intel from Shadow, the good guys take out a signal jammer Eggman was using to block communications across the city surrounding Sunset Boulevard, and use it to find where Eggman's new pyramid base is, soon catching up with the doctor and Ray.
Eggman then reveals that even if he did want to dissect Mighty to get the rest of his shell as a "prize", he only needed the mere sample of Mighty's shell that he had already swiped at the start of the game, and sent Sonic and Mighty on their wild chase to amuse himself. Instead, he reveals that he was setting up the two all along to be "subjects" to be destroyed by the new "Hard Boiled EGG Tank"note he engineered from the strength of Mighty's shell.
But par for the course, Sonic and Mighty scrap it, Eggman loses his cool, there's a "we got friendship" speech, Eggman promptly escapes, and the heroes give chase. But as Ray trails behind, Metal Sonic suddenly shows up and spooks the poor squirrel…
Is he eggnificent?
Well, aside from the usual hammy Eggman showmanship which should warrant no further explanation, the good doctor spends a chunk of this game planning in advance. Rather than just capture Mighty for himself, he uses Ray as a hostage so that he can lead the armadillo to a specific location, which allows both a quick sample to be taken and for Sonic and Tails to notice and indirectly lead Mighty to where Eggman would want him later. He also makes sure to at least get a sample off of Mighty rather than immediately attempt a blind all-or-nothing plan of capturing and dissecting him that could easily go awry given Mighty's fighting spirit.
It also took an entire day in-universe for the heroes to find Eggman, which despite the doctor's claim that their little treasure hunt was meant to amuse him, clearly gave him enough time to complete his "Hard Boiled EGG Tank", and he was still readily counting on the heroes eventually tracking him down despite how many roadblocks there were involved. And hey, even if Sonic does somehow happen to die in a surprise volcanic explosion, it'd still be a plus in some way, right?
There's also some elements of the Hard Boiled EGG Tank fight itself that may or may not be relevant. To elaborate…
Even at the end of the game, where he's shown having a This Cannot Be! moment towards Sonic and Mighty destroying his grand creation, his character portrait shows him quickly regaining his composure with yet another smug grin before escaping. While it's left ambiguous as to what happens afterwards in-story with Metal reawakening, a possible interpretation could be that he specifically left Metal there to deal with the heroes once he escaped, hence why he only shows up then. note
I also don't think that the whole "picked eggs and cucumbers" running gag is a disqualifying factor. It's the characters that mock Eggman, not the story, and Eggman himself is more annoyed than offended by it.
Is he a bastard? Too much in some areas?
I already mentioned the "for [his] own amusement" parts of his plan above, and even if he seemingly wanted Mighty's shell for bragging rights, having it could still give him additional data on how to make even stronger robot weapons— in short, Eggman isn't carelessly petty in this game, and whatever pettiness he has isn't what screws him over. Sonic and Mighty winning is what screws him over.
Final verdict?
I feel like anything that would seemingly disqualify GT!Eggman as an MB would be more a result of GT's narrative is presented (I think some plot elements are a little pantsed) as opposed to anything inherent to how the doctor himself is written in this game. I'm giving an about 70% chance of a to him, but let me know what you guys think. I've been wrong before.
Here's also a full playthrough of Sonic GT from the channel Sonic Overtime in case anyone wants to fact-check me:
(God, I've looked far too deep into this plot)
Edited by BlurryDawgo on Apr 17th 2022 at 7:27:50 AM
Sends me into hyperspace, when I see her pretty face…
Showtime!
to Eggman
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Voltan. I would wait until tomorrow morning Melinda. Any more votes for Ian?
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid