Is this an example?

Found this in Main.Brooding Boy Gentle Girl. Does it qualify?

• Ajnabee: Raj is quiet and reserved compared to Priya's upbeat and bubbly personality. This is Gender-Inverted for Vicky and Sonia, with him being fun-loving and loud while she's calm and reserved which is why Vicky later proposes they do a "wife swap".

Graffiti Wall

Found this example of a Wham Episode in The Tree of Life, although I'm not quite sure that it qualifies:

What happens in the game is that some parts of the game become inaccessible at that point.

It technically fits in with the description in that at that part of the game, there is no turning back (without going a step back on your save), and it does change where the reset mechanic puts you in the game, however, there is no emotional impact, nor is it a major shock, exactly.

Would I be mistaken in thinking that it doesn't really fit at all?

Edited by techno156 on Dec 23rd 2022 at 1:49:26 AM

Good evening. Is it really cannot to playng with a Complete Monster?

Complete Monster is YMMV so no, Playing with a Trope is inapplicable.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

In addition to Amonimus' post, Berserk Button is being misused. Berserk Button is an extreme overreaction to a specific trivial matter, usually (not always) played for comedy. An entry about kidnapping people isn't trivial. Things that can legitimately cause anger are not valid examples of Berserk Button.

Rage Breaking Point is mentioned as a contrast trope to Berserk Button. While it is possible for the two to overlap (if an established insignificant bugbear becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back after a series of events have built up over time to trigger the Rage Breaking Point), the two tropes are not the same and will not have the same entry. That's because Rage Breaking Point will need to mention what the build-up events were to the moment that rage-breaking moment. A Berserk Button entry will just be about why the trigger is so insignificant and why it always produces a disproportionate reaction from the character.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Hi, this is my first time posting here. I recently got un-suspended so as a sort of self-imposed homework I'm looking over pages I've edited in the past to go over my own edit history as well as spot if there's something I think I can or want to fix.

I tend to lurk on video game or manga/anime pages, so my posts will tend to be about those. Checked the YMMV of Guardian Tales today and I felt like I should address Game-Breaker while fixing some spoiler tags I had put on Guide Dang It! previously.

Currently, it looks like this:

• Game-Breaker:
  • Future Princess, who is not only a hybrid ranged/melee DPS, but also serves as a defensive hero who is also capable of healing her allies & giving hits, but is also capable of wielding shields. As of this writing, only four nat 3* heroes (Lapice, Oghma, FP, and Erina) are capable of wielding shields.
  • Noxia holds the title of being the most unique out of the heroes, as she is the only hero that is capable of summoning an entity, which marks it as the 5th hero/character in action. Not only can the summon take damage in her stead & taunt enemies, she is also capable of healing the summon as well with her basic attacks.
  • Kamael, for similar reasons to Future Princess. He was made to be a ranged support hero, but he has a lot of abilities that make him an effective tank as well; his Circle of Life heals him on hit, his Chain Skill removes all debuffs and heals the whole party, and he increases shield upon beginning a fight, a rare thing to see outside of Kamazone. Fitting that he's the founder and owner of Kamazon.]]

Those examples in Game-Breaker were added before Power Creep set in. Kamael stays, he's just that good, but the other two either fell from grace or weren't a Game-Breaker to begin with.

I'm unsure of how to handle that removal. Do they get moved to a different trope entry, or just leave altogether? I checked Canonical List of Subtle Trope Distinctions and it says to consider Game-Breaker Vs High-Tier Scrappy. I can see Princess being a High-Tier Scrappy, she used to be considered the second most viable unit after Kamael but these days is mostly a PvP nuisance. She is everywhere since everyone got her in order to have an easier time clearing the story mode and has a That One Attack that is more or less the entire reson she's still used in PvP.

My first thought was to use Complacent Gaming Syndrome because there are certain game modes where Future Princess and Noxia (among others) are sometimes used to everyone's detriment. They actually have low attack power so in modes where DPS is a must they do really badly, but since newbies will often be told to "work on FP", for example, sometimes people use them because that's what they have on hand (the pains of gacha).

Or, should I try to get a Discussion going in the YMMV page first, instead? I don't think it's a page with much transit, the last edit was almost a month ago.

Sorry for the Wall of Text, I tend to get very wordy when explaining my thought process.

To see if something is Game-Breaker, check if the example writing addresses the following: (1.) The audience thinks (2.) something in the game (3.) makes it way easier (4.) than it should. Let's see...

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This tells me the unit's stats. It doesn't tell me the game becomes much easier by using her compared to everyone else. Also, "As of this writing" is not okay.

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Having a summonable ally that aggros enemies while the unit heals it behind the back is cool. It tells me nothing if obtaining this unit makes the fights easy.

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To address this right away, the last bit is an off-topic and shouldn't be in an example about game mechanics. The same problem as the other two, this is Walkthrough Mode and not an explanation that the playerbase thinks he's way better relatively to any other units to make progress.

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I think all three need a rewrite to address the mentioned if possible and removal if not. Always aim for an explanation for someone who doesn't know what are you talking about.

If you want to move those to another trope, it'd be easier to answer if you write a mock-up example first to verify. If you don't know what trope to use, write that's for Trope Finder.

Edited by Amonimus on Dec 22nd 2022 at 6:50:57 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Was the ending of The Punisher MAX an example of a Bittersweet Ending? Yes, Frank is dead, and Fury says that sooner or later, crime will resurface. However, it's not a complete Downer Ending. Fisk, Elektra, Bullseye, and Vanessa are all dead, and many vigilante groups are fighting back and taking charge of their lives, wearing Frank's skull as their symbol. And like I said, Frank is dead, but at least he's finally reunited with his family in death. So again, I ask, does Punisher Max end on a bittersweet note?

I've been on TV Tropes for a while but never became a troper till recently; I hope I'm up for the job.

I think so.

"when victory came at a harsh price, when, for whatever reason, the heroes cannot fully enjoy the reward of their actions, when some irrevocable loss has happened during the course of the events"

That sounds close. And both Bittersweet Ending and The Hero Dies mention this particular scenario as possibly qualifying.

Seconded. It does sound like Bittersweet Ending to me, based on what you've described.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 22nd 2022 at 9:01:40 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

On a tangent: I assume that usual spoiler tagging rules do apply on this thread?

(I tend to tag them, but have never seen a policy statement on it)

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 6:30:58 PM

I'd think it's basic courtesy. People do maintenence, but may still want to watch the shows.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

So, someone added this example on JaidenAnimations:

• The Power of Friendship: In "Mario but I'm Blindfolded", this is how blindfolded Jaiden wins a Mario video game. Through Jacob helping her.

Putting aside the fact that this is a ZCE, I don't think this counts as a valid example as I watched the video but I'm not 100% sure so I'd like to know your opinions. For the context, Jacob assisted Jaiden while she played Mario games blindfolded and when they completed their objective, Jaiden says something along the line of "We made it thanks to the power of friendship", which comes out more as a joke to me. IMO, The Power of Friendship is a trope that doesn't work for IRL examples.

Yeah, that’s trying to apply a narrative trope to real life.

Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Dec 22nd 2022 at 1:01:12 PM

Did I manage to merge the tropes "Humans Are Morons" and "Humans Are Bastards"? Example: City N, where Bob, Dave, Chuck, Trevor, Brad, Sam, Alice, Lucy and Marilyn lives is the Crapsack World. Pretty much all people either are jerks with a heart of jerk, either stupid and incompetent, or Dirty Cowards, or perverts, or outright brutal villains, or narcissists and egoists, or just they don't care about what's going on. In general, in this place, who is not a fool is a villain, who is not a villain is a fool.

Edited by Fidor on Dec 22nd 2022 at 9:20:44 PM

You did and should split them.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Good evening, thanks. I just thought that "Humans Are Bastards" and "Humans Are Morons" exist separately, they cannot overlap.

I mean, either there can be only Humans Are Bastards, or only Humans Are Morons

I have a question about this entry on Preemptive Shipping:

• House of the Dragon: Rhaenyra and Daemon Targaryen got shipped together long before the show aired. They started having fanarts and edits on tumblr dedicated to them once the first trailer aired and a few images of adult Rhaenyra played by Emma D'arcy and Daemon having sex on the beach and of their eventual valyrian marriage got leaked online.

Now for the most part this true and fits the tropes, but my question is the bolded part. Does something leaking have anything to do with fans shipping things before the show aired? I honestly fail to see how it does.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread

Especially in an adaptation of a published book that already has them as a couple. I mean, House of the Dragon might have gone down the Adaptation Deviation route on that, but I believe Fire & Blood already establishes their relationship.

Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 7:32:35 PM

To answer, I think so if it affected the shipping in question and it still occurred before the work started. That said, I'm unsure if something can count as Preemptive Shipping if a previous entry in the series already established the pair's relationship.

Continuing from this post, I forgot to mention some more potential tropes that doesn't look clear for me. Though maybe adding the description could help.

I think that's it I found so far.

EDIT: I forgot that Senija/Tomik are also technically a Brother–Sister Team because, well, figures out their genders. Not that it's matter anyway if it's getting commented out for Zero-Context Examples.

Edited by JustNormalMusicLover on Dec 23rd 2022 at 3:26:28 AM

Everyone's got their unique qualities.

If it's not clear, add more description if possible or hide with "%%" if not. All of these a blatant Zero-Context Example.

Edited by Amonimus on Dec 22nd 2022 at 4:51:21 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

~Amonimus Yes, I agree with many of your points. I was actually doing a rewrite of much of that late yesterday night but ended up cancelling my edit since it was unfinished and I was sleepy, felt unconfident the edit would end up looking good.

Can a Game-Breaker be for specific parts of a game? Thing about Guardian Tales is that the playerbase tends to judge a unit by their utility in either PvP or raid modes, and generally raid units are looked at more favorably than PvP ones. "Being good for story mode" is more like a nice extra because its rewards are exhaustible and that was the main thing Future Princess trivialized back when she was first released. The (then) punishingly difficult story chapters were tailored so the players would get and raise Future Princess to clear it.

I was gonna try to explain their place in the current state of the game but realized that might just end up wasting time. I'll try writing how I'd edit them, including what I was planning to add to the entry.

• Game-Breaker:
  • God of Harvest Kamael is widely considered to be the best Hero in the game thanks to how versatile he is. Although advertised as a support unit, his damage output is good enough to serve as a DPS unit. His "Circle of Life" attack is an HP-draining attack that only requires him to get close enough to take effect, making it the only attack in the game that cannot miss and it even activates through walls. Part of the HP drained is used to heal his team, giving him a sub-healer role, and it inflicts a defense debuff, giving him a debuffing role. His signature skill is very powerful and has wide reach, giving him excellent crowd control and deceptively long range. Regardless of game mode, Kamael can be used to great effect. To top it off, thanks to his debuff role and wide pick of different element weapons, Kamael is considered to be effectively immune to Power Creep as he will always have a role in boss raids.
  • Slayer Andras has carved herself out an identity as a DPS monster. Due to a combination of abnormally high attack power, being a staff user (staves being a weapon type that has great options for every element) and debuffing defense with her attacks, Andras is capable of deleting most enemies from existence with just her normal attacks. Her attacks deal so much damage that an AI-controlled Andras can potentially outdamage a player-controlled core DPS unit under the right circumstances. Although frail, in skilled hands Andras can even be used in Arena mode to devastating effect, being able to slay most heroes with a few direct hits. Due to this, Andras is universally considered a great investment, future-proofed and immune to Power Creep.

[...]

• High-Tier Scrappy:
  • Future Princess is a Unique Hero that any player can get for free and whom many veteran accounts have long maxed out due to her utility for the punishingly difficult story mode. She is infamous for her signature weapon's attack skill, which is difficult to evade and can instantly stun anyone hit by it. As a result, she is an extremely common sight in the Arena and Colisseum modes despite the large variety of Heroes available. She is used in so many teams that a significant portion of the players tailor their Colisseum teams specifically to counter and kill her as fast as possible, leading to many encounters against "Future Princess Teams" or "Anti-Future Princess Teams".
  • Noxia is fairly unique in that she can deploy a refreshable summon that constantly taunts enemies and is healed by Noxia's attacks. This makes her a decent secondary tank unit despite Noxia herself not being particularly bulky, but what lands her in this trope is that when Noxia is used in specific Colisseum teams with other bulky units, their defensive party effects compound to create an extraordinarily tough refreshable aggro tank that gets healed constantly. Thanks to how the AI works, this is enough to put the brakes on most aggressor teams and trap them in a loop of being taunted by Noxia's nigh-unkillable summon while Noxia and her team safely attack from beyond the summon's range until victory. Due to this, Noxia has cultivated a reputation as a frustrating Hero to deal with in the Colisseum mode.

Note that I specifically noted that both Kamael and Andras are basically immune to Power Creep because they are debuffers. In Guardian Tales, you only realistically need one team to play PvP, but need multiple different trained teams for raid content. As a result, debuffers are always in demand. Even heroes that do not have Kamael's versatility or Andras's sheer power are kept as backups in case you run out of debuffers because adding an extra debuff usually has a bigger payout than adding an extra DPS, and the developer doesn't release new debuffers often. Both of those units immediately make the game significantly easier thanks to their strenghts and everyone acknowledges it. Future Princess makes parts of the game easier and she's kind of hard to deal with as an enemy but her golden days are gone.

Oh, and while nobody will deny how useful she is, Noxia will often only be referred to in unflattering terms where it concerns her role in PvP. Probably better to not mention which, it might be noxious.

EDIT: Added a final line to the Noxia example on High-Tier Scrappy to reflect playerbase perception.

Edited by AKITN on Dec 22nd 2022 at 6:28:30 AM

Yes, I don't think it's specific to story mode.

I suggest reading Walkthrough Mode and Wall of Text. These entries only need to show that it's a common opinion and why (briefly), technical details are irrelevant.

ex.

still tells who is an example, that he's an example and why. We should avoid sounding like a game strategy guide and focus on documenting reactions.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup