Is this an example?

I made a Super Sentai cleanup a few months ago, but it's dead. I'll cut down that entry with a pair of hedgetrimmers tomorrow.

@Nitro Indigo: Ax and Tobias *didn't* get more books. once the POV order changed, everyone got one more book, and then the last one was multi-POV. so they didn't even get more publisher attention like the entry claims.

I think what the entry means is that in the rotating POV order, Tobias and Ax originally shared a slot, but that changed during the final arc, where a Marco book (#45) is followed by an Ax book (#46) instead of a Jake one like all the other sixes.

Chainsawed the Super Sentai entry on EnsembleDarkHorse.Live Action TV. Now all that's left is Bio Hunter Silver; I commented out the two Kyoryuger characters that HalfFaust mentioned because there wasn't enough context.

Edited by NitroIndigo on Sep 24th 2021 at 7:49:16 PM

This was just added to Hoodwinked!:

• Where the Hell Is Springfield?: In a Freeze-Frame Bonus, when the Wolf is describing his column "Facts and Fairy Tales", the front page of an edition of The Once Upon a Times is shown. The tiny text "Woodland County Editon" can be seen in a border on the visible part of the page. Based on the trees and the alpine environments, the movie setting appears to be somewhere in the heart of the Rocky Mountains (the vistas, such as distant ones in Red's treehouse scene, look like what you might see in Yellowstone or Rocky Mountain National Parks). There also is a small chands of this potentially being somewhere in the state of Oregon, since that also has mountains, as well as European and skiing cultures. None of these theories have been proven though.

I'm pretty sure Hoodwinked takes place in a fairy tale land and is not meant to be analogous to any specific place anyway, which feels outside of the scope of this trope, which is for ambiguous locations that are still presumably set in the real world somewhere. Why would we have confusion about real-world locations when the world is nothing like ours?

Edited by mightymewtron on Sep 25th 2021 at 3:21:25 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I agree. "There also is a small chands of this potentially" also smells of Speculative Troping (and spelling mistakes.)

Octopath Traveler: Giant Space Flea from Nowhere.

Some have put Giant Space Flea from Nowhere on Tressa's final boss, Esmerelda. She is not named before the final chapter, she attacks Tressa to steal her diary as it belonged to a man of importance that her group is looking for. Some feel because she has no personal beef with Tressa before stealing the book she qualifies.

I don't think it applies because as a thief, she counters thematically from Tressa's merchant. She is human. And the group she is aligned with or working for, the Obsidians, are enemies in other character chapter's.

Are people okay with me removing the below entries from the Bury Your Gays trope page?

Reasons: neither situation actually happened.

• The first example is cherry-picking the official reason. The character did not want to help people who were in trouble, and just wanted to get his (smuggling) job done and go home. The team was worried about the optics of the show's first confirmed LGBTQ+ character being selfish and potentially unlikeable. They did also point out the Bury Your Gays trope, but that wasn't the only problem fed back. The writers took both issues on board and cut the line. So, while averting Bury Your Gays was part of the reason, it was not the main reason.
• The second example just isn't an example at all — and admits that it's entirely YMMV. Part of the fandom ran away with Ho Yay because of the (genuine) chemistry between two male characters and looked for validation of their ship wherever they could find it (two links are provided as "proof" of Ship Tease, but they only prove Shipping Goggles). When the one character died, there was a Ship Sinking backlash, prompting the creators to confirm no ship was ever intended. It's also misusing Broken Base (there isn't one about this issue).

---

Examples in question:

• Consciously avoided out-of-universe with RWBY: During the writing process of Volume 5, a minor character referred to as "Pilot" was to have made a passing reference to having a boyfriend, part of the CRWBY's first steps at confirmed-LGBTQ representation, but the character would have been killed off in the following episode. When the script went out to the team, however, several members quickly pointed out this trope and the issues with killing off the show's first confirmed gay character, and so the reference to the pilot's boyfriend was dropped, with later LGBTQ characters (including Ilia, Saphron, and Terra) avoiding this trope.
  • Though Clover Ebi was never explicitly stated to be LGBT+ by the creators themselves, many gay and bisexual fans identified him as such due to his chemistry with Qrow — starting from their first conversation ending in a callback to the flirtatious barmaid in Volume 4. The popularity of Clover/Qrow also grew when RWBY twitter and former animators teased the ship. Then Broken Base ensued when he dies in Episode 12 of Volume 7, leading to debates if his death should be considered this trope or not. Regardless, writer Eddy Rivas has since come out and apologized to LGBT+ fans for any pain or emotional betrayal they might have felt as that was never their intention.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 25th 2021 at 3:20:30 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Yes, neither of those are examples. Maybe Preserve Your Gays for the first one?

Deltarune chapter 2 just came out and has gotten a predictably extensive list of Developer's Foresight. Out of courtesy to minimize spoilers for those yet to play it I'll post the current list last with this post. I know we previously cut Deltarune's Developer Foresight page because they were apparently mostly easter eggs. However, considering Undertale's extensive page, I think it might be time to do one of the following:

1. Restore Deltarune's Developer's Foresight page with what's currently listed on the page in the general and chapter 2 page and are valid.
2. Cleanup the lists and divide them between Developer's Foresight and Easter Egg.

I'm personally more inclined to the former, as given the aforementioned Undertale page it's likely inevitable that Deltarune's example list will be similarly extensive in the full game. Either way, a cleanup of Undertale's page is likely needed, but that's something I'll be taking to its cleanup thread. As for the current examples:

From the General folder:

• If you select the FIGHT command while Ralsei is training you, but keep intentionally missing by not hitting the button to trigger an attack, Ralsei gets increasingly confused and agitated, and eventually decides to move on to teaching you how to DEFEND. If you then select "FIGHT" and miss again, Ralsei reaches his breaking point and politely ends the lesson.
• If you only talk to Temmie after you're partnered with Susie and not before, then you will have never seen her boiled egg "partner". As such, her example of Susie being mean changes from saying her egg would never hatch to making fun of the way she talks.
• K. Round isn't meant to be beatable by force, as it can heal faster than you can wear its health down. It still has "low health" in-battle text and a rudimentary defeat animation, just in case you tamper with the game to out-damage its healing.
• Returning to Rouxls Kaard's shop after defeating the King causes him to receive new dialogue praising the heroes.
• Getting to the Dark World in under eight minutes will allow the player to get an item that skips cutscene dialogue, on the off chance the player is speedrunning the game.
• If you try to buy from Susie and Lancer's bake sale stall while completely broke, they admonish you for being irresponsible with your money, which they bet was wasted on pastries. This is after they've offered to sell you a cookie to get the funding for their "evil plans".

From Chapter 2:

• In Chapter 2, the initial armor for Noelle is a watch, which is possible to remove from Noelle and equip on Kris. Upon getting back to the Light World on a No Mercy run, Noelle tries to convince herself that what happened in the Dark World was All Just a Dream. If you still have Noelle's watch equipped on Kris when talking to Noelle in the hospital, she'll notice and realize the implications.
• Normally, Noelle has SnowGrave for only one fight on the No Mercy route, after which she leaves. However, before 1.05 patch, by sparing Berdly and quitting the route just before point of no return, Noelle would keep the spell, while the player could still encounter an enemy (via a scripted encounter in the cheese maze that doesn't appear on No Mercy route but comes back if you quit it). The enemies have a unique animation to getting hit with it. They visibly die from it too, rather than freezing or running away, as they now fade into a blood red mist. This mist death animation isn't used anywhere else in the game. This needs a rewrite at least, that there is a normal enemy animation is probably noteworthy. I'll list my rewrite below.
• Though she leaves your party before you can get them, Noelle has comments for drinking the Susie and Ralsei flavored tea (she really likes the former, and the latter's tea is apparently invisible to her which has... implications).
• If you ask Sans about his brother without having talked to him in the previous chapter, he'll say that he doesn't have a brother at first, before questioning how you'd even know he had a brother if he's never mentioned him to you before.
• When Kris carrying the dusty orb of junk through the school, if you go down the hall, you can encounter Alphys talking to Toriel about Kris. It's possible to call Toriel on your cellphone at this point, which has unique dialogue, which is a double whammy because most people don't think to go down the hallway, never mind call Toriel at the same time (since Kris's phone never even gets mentioned in the chapter).
• Rudolph Holiday has unique dialogue if you go the Sans's store and initiate the interaction between Sans, Toriel, and Asgore beforehand and then go talk to him. He'll get jealous that Sans is giving Asgore free pickles and threaten to turn Sans into "a goddamn xylophone". If you had Susie speak to Sans as well, Susie will join in.
• If you still have a Hearts Donut from Chapter 1 and have Noelle eat one in Chapter 2, she will respond with shock to the realization that they're filled with blood.
• If you hacked the game to give yourself the unused, yet fully functional Trefoil weapon for Kris in Chapter 1, in Chapter 2 if you attempt to have Noelle equip it, she'll have a unique descriptive response that brings up the fact that it's unused.
• In the epilogue, checking on Lancer in your pocket while you're in the same room as him changes his line to mention that he's diving out of and into your pocket quickly.
• After the Berdly fight in the city, Noelle will say with a mix of shock and frustration "He hit me with a tornado..." However, if she never took damage during the fight (be it by Kris being the only one or doing it damageless in general) she won't say this line. She also won't snap at Berdly for attacking her in the battle itself until the game chooses her to be the one to take damage.
• If you set the game volume to zero before the battle with Sweet Cap'n Cakes, their musical attacks will do nothing, since there's no sound, effectively turning the fight into a Zero-Effort Boss.
• Fill up your equipment inventory with stuff before fighting Spamton NEO so you're unable to get his reward for the fight, he'll have some special lines of dialogue calling you out for it since it's extremely unlikely you did it on accident. Also so you don't miss out on his extremely powerful equipment, a chest will spawn nearby with the item in it.

2nd chapter 2 example rewrite:

• Normally, Noelle has SnowGrave for only one fight on the No Mercy route, after which she leaves. However, normal enemies have a unique animation to getting hit with it. They visibly die from it too, rather than freezing or running away, as they now fade into a blood red mist. This mist death animation isn't used anywhere else in the game. In an aversion of this trope before the 1.05 patch, by sparing Berdly and quitting the route just before point of no return, Noelle would keep the spell, while the player could still encounter an enemy (via a scripted encounter in the cheese maze that doesn't appear on No Mercy route but comes back if you quit it).

The debate was centred on how to pull off the first confirmed example of an LGBTQ+ character, so we don't know if they'll always protect such characters from Bury Your Gays. They felt it would be bad for the first such character. We've had other confirmed LGBTQ+ characters in the show and none of them have died — but they also haven't been part of story lines where there was a threat of that happening (except for one, who was part of a storyline where the point was for the heroes to save as many lives as possible, and they were one of the allies of the heroes).

So, I think we can't say that Preserve Your Gays is in effect right now, but it might be something to revisit at some point in the future when we know more.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 25th 2021 at 5:13:32 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Like I said when the first one was mentioned on the previous page, I'd be very hesitant about listing Preserve Your Gays at all, because I'm pretty certain it's not really a trope and is going to end up in TRS sooner rather than later.

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Stone Ocean : Worthy Opponent

• People have written that Pucci considers Jolyne as one, but having read the manga, I cannot remember an instant where it is confirmed outright. Worthy Opponent is defined in the Laconic entry as a character that shows their respect for an adversary. I cannot remember Pucci showing Jolyne any respect in the manga. Here is the entry itself:
  • Worthy Opponent: Considers Jolyne to be one, growing gradually more freaked out at her inability to die. Early on, he states that using her to get to Jotaro was a bad idea, as Jolyne's combination of single-mindedness and tactical brilliance made her a greater threat than Jotaro and that he kind of shot himself in the foot severely by trying to use her as bait.

We don't know anything about the work, but that example text doesn't describe a Worthy Opponent to us.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

Fair enough. I'll go ahead and remove the examples then.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 27th 2021 at 5:39:41 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

What should be done with this They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character example from WarioWare?

• Some fans felt disappointed that Captain Syrup from Wario Land didn't show up or even get referenced in Wario's final stage in Game & Wario, despite the stage having a pirate aesthetic to it.

I know They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character doesn't count if the character never appeared, but what's the status on characters from similar series? I'm personally leaning towards cutting since while Wario Land and WarioWare both feature Wario as the protagonist, they are two different things and neither game has had the other characters appear in the other.

Edited by ejmenendez on Sep 26th 2021 at 8:14:00 AM

I'm wondering if this character (Kaido from One Piece) qualifies for jerkass, here's the trope description

• Jerkass: All of his traits define him as a very unpleasant person whose reedemable qualities are overshadowed by his worst ones. Compared to his fellow emperors, Shanks is friendly as long as you don't mess with his friends, Whitebeard hides his good side under a jerkass persona, Blackbeard genuinely cares about his crew, and Big Mom is violently unstable and prone to Disproportionate Retribution, but is legitimately psychotic and unable to understand that her actions are beyond the pale, as well as having a truly tragic backstory. Kaido is willing to disrupt the state of the world at a chance of grabbing power from Whitebeard; threw Moria past the Despair Event Horizon by murdering his entire crew, turning Moria into the Jerkass he is today; and has a temper so legendary that Doflamingo gives everything up in order to not face his rage. Upon his first in-the-flesh appearance, he's demanding a war to end all wars to destroy this "mundane world" and find something capable of killing him. Kaido doesn't care one wit about Yamato's dreams and is abusive in several ways from regularly beating her, to attaching shackles that will result in a powerful explosion if removed or she leaves the island base. And where she wants to open up Wano in a benign fasion for the people, he wants to turn the land into his own war machine and sends literally floats Onigamshmi over to Wano to place it in the Flower Capital. Despite knowing full well dropping it in the middle of the city will kill hundred of citizens within, but not caring since he figures they can always get more slaves.

While the things said in the entries are true, the actions described are more akin to a full-blown villain (which he is) than someone you'd define as "jerk". It doesn't help that he also has the entries for Affably Evil and Benevolent Boss, which go in contrast with Jerkass. Not sure if the descriptions fit, but otherwise it would mean that every villain/bad guy is a jerkass by default

There isn't an impossible dream, there are only people who give up

Is it still Murder by Mistake if the killer did get their intended target, but an additional unintended target was killed at the same time?

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

I'm thinking of adding an Audience-Alienating Premise example to YMMV.Centaurworld, because Gus Zagarella did an analysis video about the series pointing out that despite its positive critical reception, it hasn't been talked about much outside of certain communities, theorizing that the bright colors and rounded character designs makes it look like a show aimed at small children. I know for a fact that there were people who were drawn in by the gritty animesque opening with Horse and Rider, only to be frightened off by the shift to the more colorful and cartoony style after Horse ends up in the titular world.

Of course, the show still has an active fanbase, but I still feel like it could be a valid example if it ends up being an Acclaimed Flop, which may require some wait time. I also considered making the example Uncertain Audience, but that would imply that the big tonal shift was unintentional (when it clearly wasn't, since the point of the show is the contrast between Horse's world and Centaurworld).

What do you guys think?

YMMV.Gravity Falls has some examples for Suspiciously Similar Song:

• Suspiciously Similar Song:
  • "Double Dipper" features several knockoffs of well-known songs like "Don't Start Un-Believing" and a sound-alike of Spandau Ballet's "True", probably the most popular slow dance.
  • In "Dipper vs. Manliness", Dipper likes to sing "Disco Girl" by BABBA. The snippet of chorus sung is also very similar to "Dancing Queen".
  • The song playing at the Summerween store in the cold open sounds like "Monster Mash".
  • Whoah-oh! Livin' on a pra- I mean, "Takin' over midnight!"

I think "Don't Start Un-Believing" and "Disco Girl" are Musical Pastiche and not this, but can the other examples remain?

Is it an Allohistorical Allusion for a fan work to make references to the canon version of events? We normally file that kinda thing under Mythology Gag, but ~Thrawn CA just moved an example on The Arithmancer and we're :?

e: Hey Thrawn CA this is us explicitly stating that we are pinging you for the purpose of talking about it in this thread and not to have two separate disconnected conversations.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Sep 28th 2021 at 4:59:45 AM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

From Guppy Love:

Bittersweet Ending: Applejack accepts that she and Rarity can never be together and lets her return to the ocean. Years later, she and Rarity have friendly visits, Applejack is now married with a child on the way and Rarity is in a relationship with another mermaid: Sunset Shimmer

Is it just me, or does this feel more sweet than bitter? I read the fic, and the ending is not bitter in the slightest.

"Listen up, Marina, because this is SUPER important. Whatever you do, don't eat th“ “DON'T EAT WHAT?! Your text box ran out of space!”

It seems bittersweet mostly because AJ can't be with Rarity, but that's me not knowing the actual fic.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Is their an emoji in the example ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

I dont think so. It must be a faulty typo.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.