During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Wild Child
Is anyone going to comment on Mr. Gryle?
Why so serious?
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Adam.
And on a side-note, I graduated from high school yesterday.
Lizzid people!
Congratulations, Kirby. Abstaining from Gryle, mostly because I'm unfamiliar regarding the Discworld series.
edited 29th May '16 9:53:03 AM by AustinDR
I have no idea on Gryle. I'm leaning downvote, bc more of the summary given seemed to be about his employer's actions. I'd vote yes for the employer, if that's up for debate.
Black Adam.
Also, the person asking about Heinrich Zemo - there were definitely Captain America Omnibus editions, but I have NO CLUE where they left off or what decades they cover. I'll look around for you.
Holy god that Captain America Omnibus is selling for 225 dollars US on Amazon. 
I assume a local college library may have it in a reference section? My university had large comic collections for research purposes. That may be your best bet.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Black Adam. Never thought I'd see a version of him here in a million years.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The original too much of an Anti-Villain/WIE?
Original Black Adam loved his family and had the occasional Anti-Hero role. This Black Adam isn't anything even resembling that.
I think I'll have to ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Gryle.
edited 29th May '16 10:17:52 AM by Scraggle
Gryle. He's just a creepy hitman.
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Black Adam
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- The Hidden One from season 3 was a cruel, arrogant, hot-tempered deity, driven by lust for power and a hatred of mankind. Ten thousand years ago, due to his evil nature his fellow gods banished him to the Catacombs, where he seduced Pandora, promising he would make her his wife if she freed him. Giving her a box which could steal a god’s power, he sent her to slaughter his fellow deities, leaving him as the one all-powerful god. However, using a mystical artifact to strip him of his power, the humans imprisoned him in the Catacombs. In the present, Pandora managed to free him, however due to Abbie Mills his power source was lost. Obsessed with restoring himself, his minions summoned monsters from all over world to Sleepy Hollow so he could feed off them, causing many deaths. When The Kindred and Kindress instead fell in love, the furious Hidden One murdered them. Despite initial appearances the Hidden One proved too only care about power, mistreating and berating Pandora. Attempting to kill the witnesses the Hidden One trapped himself in the same spell that originally defeated him, where he learned that acting in good faith Pandora had told the original humans of its existence. Not caring that she saved him for a second time, the Hidden One proceeded to torture his wife. When Jenny Mills tried to stop him from restoring himself, The Hidden One cursed her boyfriend Joe Corbin to become a Wendigo, forcing Jenny to kill Joe. Finally regaining his former powers, the Hidden One imprisoned Pandora then bragged how he would wipe mankind out gradually, so he could bask in their fear and suffering.
- Nicole Horne from the first game is the CEO of Aesir Corporation. As a member of the Inner Circle, she was responsible for Project Valhalla, a program that was developing a highly addictive psychotropic Super Serum when it turned out to be a madness-inducing poison. In response to this discovery, she decided to market it through the mob as Valkyr to the public, thereby becoming an untouchable corporate crime lord who directly and indirectly killed thousands. When Michelle Payne inadvertently received information that would expose the Valkyr Conspiracy, Nicole had a trio of drugged-up maniacs slaughter both Michelle and her baby daughter. Over the following years, Horne went on to control the entire criminal underworld of New York through her pawn, Angelo Punchinello, and made a play into politics by putting a hit on the Mayor; she also blackmailed Inner Circle member Alfred Woden, preventing him from stopping her machinations himself. When she first personally encounters Max, she has Angelo murdered for outliving his usefulness, then tries to kill Max by giving him an overdose of Valkyr and leaving him to burn alive in Angelo's mansion. She eventually resorts to mass murder to cover up her crime, initiating "Operation Dead Eyes" to murder all her personnel involved in Valkyr's creation, and sends men to wipe out the Inner Circle. Through all of this Horne has no clear motivations, no enlightened intent, no emotion; she is just pure evil, even claiming that the deaths of Max wife and daughter were "necessary".
- Artificial Maiden: Kai is a 240-year-old alchemist who runs a business that specializes in cloning. Kai places the clones in a virtual paradise before harvesting their bodies for his clients. Realizing that his assistant had given a clone of Satonaka to a married couple, he murders him, and sends the Crow to retrieve the body; the Crow murders Musumi's parents, and reduces him to a brain. Learning that Musumi was still alive, he kidnaps him, and implants a parasitic plant inside Nakahara, stating that she would die if her brain isn't transferred to a clone's body. An apathetic man, Kai isn't above murdering his own Jinzous if they were to inconvenience him, and not even Satonaka is immune to his wrath; he tricks Satonaka into releasing him from a trap by appealing to his sensitive nature, only to stab him to death. Desiring only to make a profit, Kai cares nothing on the effect his illegal acts have on those whose lives he creates.
- Justice League: Gods and Monsters Chronicles: Harley Quinn, as she appears in the "Twisted" short, stands in stark contrast to her mainstream portrayal. A psychopathic SerialKiller, Harley Quinn abducts civilians before mutilating and killing them, making "toys" out of their mangled corpses. When Batman rescues a teenage girl Harley kidnapped, she tries to kill them both. During their fight, Batman comes across a makeshift "family" of the people Harley has murdered, including a young boy.
- The House by the Cemetery: Dr. Freudstein, an expert in the field of human cells and mitosis, began performing experiments on living people to further his work. When he discovered a way to use body parts to regenerate blood cells and make himself immortal, he killed his wife and daughter, and went to live in the basement of his home, murdering anyone who came into his house and using their bodies for materials. 150 years after he killed his family, Freudstein still lives in the basement as a rotting, zombie like being. When a new family moves into his house, he begins targeting them, and after killing a babysitter and a neighbor, he manages to kill the husband and wife, with their son, Bob, barely escaping. A cruel, selfish man who would cross any lines to get what he wanted, Freudstein had a soul that matched his decayed appearance.
- Dragon Prince:
- High Prince Rolestra is a petty, cruel Evil Prince with a very high level of depravity. After murdering his father at the tender age of eight, he ascends to Princemarch's throne and used his position to play other princes against each other for his own amusement, nearly causing several wars. When his request for a Sunrunner was refused he trapped and addicted one to drugs, then slowly cut off the Sunrunner's supply of drugs when he ceased to be useful. He then attempted to use these drugs to enslave and rape another Sunrunner, Sioned, and when he fails burns his mistress Palila alive and banishes two of his children, one being a newborn. When we next hear about him he has cornered the market on the only medicine to a plague and only supplies it when enough of his rivals have died of it. When he enters a war with his greatest rival left alive, Rohan, he salts a battlefield after losing a battle out of spite.
- Princess Ianthe, Rolestra's daughter, is a cruel and heartless woman, and just as vile as her father. She causes several of the events that lead to Palila being burned alive and her sisters being exiled simply because she didn't like them. She then concocts a plan with her father to kidnap, drug, and rape Rohan to make her son heir to the Desert. When his wife, Sioned, comes to rescue him she locks her in a lightless room and has her guards rape her for a month straight. When she finally lets them go, she releases them into the desert with only a little water and no food.
- Mireva, a sorceress from the mountains, is a bitter and power-hungry woman. Prior to the events of the story, she introduced drugs to Palila that kickstarted several of Rolestra's villainous acts. She helps Ianthe's sons escape the fire she dies in and trains them into her tools to try to conquer the world with. While orchestrating these plots, she enslaves a princess with a mirror, forcing her to raise an army to try to invade Princemarch, which would cause the death of hundreds of people, if not more. She kidnaps a princess named Ruala with latent sorcerer powers to use as a power source and tries to blackmail another prince to do the same to him. As part of this plot she also impersonates a princess and rapes Rohan's son Pol, then has one of Ianthe's sons nearly rape the princess disguised as Pol. She also threatened to murder two children due to wanting revenge on a Sunrunner.
- Stephanie Plum series: Benito Ramirez is a violent boxer who absolutely loves to torture, rape, and mutilate women both because he can, and because he likes to make a point that he's so powerful that he can do whatever he wants, to whomever he wants, whenever he wants. In the first book, One For The Money, he stalks Stephanie, even, at one point, calling her in the middle of the night and leaving a taunting voicemail that's being recorded as he assaults a pleading, screaming woman. Later, he rapes and brutalizes Lula, a prostitute whom Stephanie had spoken to about Ramirez earlier that day, and leaves her bloody, unconscious, naked body tied up on Stephanie's balcony. In the fifth book, High Five, he goes on parole claiming to having reformed, only to resume stalking Stephanie and trying to break into her apartment.
- Dark Souls III:
- Aldrich, Saint of the Deep/Devourer of Gods, is the only unambigiously evil Lord of Cinder, a former cleric and a sadistic cannibal who "luxuriated in his victim's screams", founded the Church of the Deep with the intent to round up countless Undead so he could devour them and obtain their power. This caused him to gradually deform into something that could be considered an Eldritch Abomination, before he turned to his next meal: the very Gods that he once worshipped.He succeeded, subjecting Gwyndolin to an And I Must Scream state and controlling his body like a puppet, defiling Anor Londo and subjecting the captured Undead to various Body Horror inducing experiments, as from what can be seen in his Cathedral of the Deep.
- Aldrich's right-hand man, Pontiff Sulyvahn, is a prime example of Ambition Is Evil. After discovering the Profound Flame as a common sorcerer, he sets out on a campaign for power by eliminating anyone who stood in his path, including the remains remainnder of Gwyndolin's relatives in Anor Londo, for reasons implied to be pure jealously. He himself created the Outrider Knights, used to lure prospective opponents, such as the Dancer of the Boreal Valley and Vordt of the Boreal Valley, to his rule by giving them rings marking their status as Outrider Knights. These rings destroy the sanity of its wielders, and convert them into mad beasts driven by pure rage. Sulyvahn was also responsible for imprisoning Gwyndolin, intending to feed him to Aldrich and cause the former's Fate Worse than Death.
- Dr. Rasmin Yelkov is the Mad Scientist behind the creation of SCP-1994, and proves that even amongst the monstrous SCPs, Humans Are the Real Monsters. Contacted by his peer, Dr. Grigori, with the task of synthesizing human teeth, Dr. Yelkov's solution was disproportionately lethal. After meeting with a man who lives with the mystical teeth-growing tooth faeries, Dr. Yelkov killed the man and captured the fairies when his purchase offer was rejected. Dr. Yelkov dissected the fairies and performed cruel experiments on human subjects, some of which are children, to develop a serum that grows rotten calcified masses to all over the body. When the growths became contagious, the uncaring Dr. Yelkov sees it as a minor setback and plans on continuing his research elsewhere, while still delivering the contagious, rot-covered corpses to Dr. Grigori and considering Dr. Grigori's lack of response—due to his having been killed—to be a sign of success.
- Wolf Creek franchise: Mick Taylor is an Australian killer, rapist, and torturer who preys upon tourists visiting the Wolf Creek area, falsely befriending them before taking them back to his home and slowly torturing them to death. He has killed several dozen people including an entire family, even a little girl. One of his favorite torture methods is "head on a stick" where he severs their spine to turn them into a human vegetable. At the end of the second film, he frames one of his victims for his crimes, leading to the ruination of the victim’s life. The prequel novels Origin and Desolation Game elaborate on this. He killed his mother who loved him dearly, beat a bully so bad he knocked his eyeball from its socket leaving it dangling by the eyestalk, and killed a dog to force feed it to its owner before killing him too. While being pursued by four other serial killers, Mick tied up his girlfriend Rose and used her as rape bait to lure the killers into a trap, and killed one named Jerry by gutting him and forcefeeding him his own intestines. During his time in the Vietnam War, he raped several women and later slaughtered their village, and stabbed an already paralyzed man in the back before cutting his head off and mounting it on a pike. He continued raping, torturing, and killing when he returned home. In the TV miniseries, he murders Eve Thorogood's family, and spends the rest of the series trying to kill her. He captures her Love Interest and tortures him before making her stab and kill her love interest herself.
edited 31st May '16 7:09:58 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Do pedophilic serial killer Jerry the fiddler and General Ripper Sergeant Atkin stay on the literature?
Adam
Grytle, doesn't do enough
Reading tropes to search for a CM candidate, I've noticed someone from Rosario Vampire: Brightest Darkness. Her name is Falla Cii, the original one (the other is a much more sympathetic counterpart). The one I'm talking about is Falla CII. I'll admit that I didn't read the fic. But if her tropes are anything to go by, here is a list of her misdeeds :
- Disgusted by Complica's nice Girl attitude, she sent her to death, deeming her a disgrace to their species, and she's happy about her death. She was her younger sister, mind you.
- She killed her parents, destroyed her hometown, and wiped out the entire chronofly race (with the exception of herself and Luna) simply because she was jealous that Luna was chosen to be the next queen over her. Judging by her words to her Good Counterpart in Act V chapter 37, she actually seemed to be proud of having killed her own family and entire species.
- In an effort to get Luna to finish the spell and restore her magic, she fakes wanting to reform through several acts of kindness... and in chapter 11, as soon as Luna truly believes that Falla can change and restores her magic, Falla promptly bisects her in cold blood and then proceeds to rub it in the gang's faces that it was all an act.
Shortly after, she tells Tsukune that when she's finished killing them, she'll visit Tsukune'smom and cousin and show them just "what kind of friend she really is".
- In Act V chapter 35, she gleefully tears her Good Counterpart's wings, arm, and leg off and crushes her ankle.
- Shortly after, she openly urges Kyouko to scream and beg for her lives before she kills her. Fortunately, after being reconstructed by Ceal, her good counterpart saves Kyouko from death at her hands and attacks her.
- A minor one compared to the others, but it's revealed in Act VI that the reason Luna could never get a date is because Falla lied to all of her potential suitors that their father would execute any of them who tried to approach Luna without hesitation, for no reason other than to be a Jerkass.
Heinous standard : as I didn't read the fic, I don't know about it's heinous standard. However, I'm pretty sure that being a smug, sadistic, genocidal sociopath who doesn't care about anyone other than herself (not even family is an exemption) and never felt any remorse about her actions, put her definitely among the most heinous villains at very least.
Other characters's reaction :
- If it takes forcing yourself to pretend to reform as a good person to get your own sister to trust you again, you know that you are bad.
- As you can guess with the two quotes above, the others characters are horrified by her actions.
- Her good counterpart thinks that she deserves to die.
- No tears were shed at both of her deaths.
Redeeming factors : As far as I know, there was no redeeming factors. Even without reading the fic, I can tell that she doesn't. Why ?
Freudian excuse ? I can't think of any backstory horrible enough to excuse the fact that you cares more about yourself than your own family, (and brag out it, for that matter), to the point of actually killing them, destroying your hometown and your race.
- Loved ones ? She doesn't even love her own family. I wonder if she even know what love is.
- Standards ? She had no qualms to commit genocide because things weren't going her ways, nor dismembering her good countertpart just to make her suffer. The only standards I can think of would be about rape (because it's often considered a special kind of evil), but being more interrested in power than anything else, I wouldn't be surprised if she was asexual.
Verdict : well, if no more information is gathered by someone who actually read the fic, I think she's an easy keeper.
edited 29th May '16 2:05:44 PM by MiraiYuji
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I would say so, since they're book-exclusive.
edited 29th May '16 12:08:01 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I'm not comfortable 'ing a character from a work the proposer didn't check out before proposing.
I've at least checked the tropes applying to her. I'll check the rest later to cement her statut as a CM.
The whole reason I posted this was to see if there was someone who HAD read the book and could give a second opinion.
edited 29th May '16 12:43:16 PM by zcooper95
I have read it but I can't quite remember Gryle doing much onscreen. Let me go through it again later and I'll give some more detailed thoughts, ok?
Thank you. I'm just going off what I know of him since I have only seen the movie but don't have the book on me at the moment.
Euron Greyjoy for the ASOIAF section? The Damphair chapter the GRRM Reaper read out has Euron claim to have killed three of his brothers, Euron raped his brother Aeron, and continues to perform atrocities across the world, such as his treatment of the warlocks he captured. Or should we wait till the Damphair chapter is available?
Huh. I'd expected it to take longer before someone brought that sample chapter GRRM read up, at least long enough for someone say not to bring it up.
@Mr Thorfan: Wait till Euron's arc is done.
Euron should not be discussed or proposed seriously until Winds of Winter is out and we have closure on him.
Now, regarding the Dark Souls 3 villains...if it's all the same, I was going to ask if I could try the writeups there? The current ones...I feel they're a bit lacking.
A friend of mine and I have a running joke that if the inversion really did invert all morals, than Iron Man should have become a celibate, humble, teetotaling, Well-Intentioned Extremist.