To-do list:
- The Wiki Rule is now a Definition-Only Page, so references to the concept are fine, but examples must be removed. Example cleanup can be tracked using Sandbox.The Dewicking Rule.
a few years ago, and it was eventually added to the Tropes Needing TRS because, and I quote, "[a wiki's] existence is not very notable". Here is the Wick Check.
Percentages (70/70):
- Potholes = 13%
- Just a weblink = 71%
- Weblink + some details about the wiki = 13%
- Misuse = 3%
Analysis: 71% of the sample consists solely of links to wiki sites, just pure links. This is probably motivated by its description, which only requires an existing wiki about a work (with a tvtrope page) to count. The remainder is made up of potholes that mention the trope and other examples with links and a bit more meat on the bones. However, I struggled to find any relevance in these last ones, because they simply discuss the wiki's current state or a few details about it, topics that aren't actually connected to the work itself but to the fandom of the work. Two of them even ask the reader to help expand the wiki, using the trope as some sort of ad. Overall, it appears that the trope doesn't have much to offer as a trivia trope in its current state.
Suggestion:
- Making it a Definition-Only Page and removing all the standalone examples.
- As suggested here:
- Ban examples from being listed on work pages, but allow them on The Wiki Rule page itself.
- Make it a Just for Fun page.
- Rework the trope to be about when creators use a fan's wiki as a reference.
- As suggested in the Tropes Needing TRS post:
- Require examples that aren't hosted on wiki farms like FANDOM.
- Other suggestion are welcome.
Wick check:
With more than two-thirds of the sample, The Wiki Rule is a clear offender of the rule Weblinks Are Not Examples.- DracoInLeatherPants.Video Games: Kane, the leader of the Brotherhood of Nod in the Command & Conquer series. It doesn't help that his motivations seem to change every game, or that the developers themselves seem infected with Evil Is Cool.
- At one point in the first game, he tells the player that "people believe what the media tells them to believe… and I tell the media what to believe". Quite fitting that this is exactly what happens among the fandom — another cutscene has Kane MST the "origin of Tiberium" scene from the GDI campaign, interrupting it at one point to explain that, as opposed to Dr. Mobius finding it and naming it after the Tiber River the first meteor crashed near, Kane himself actually discovered it first and named it after the Roman emperor Tiberius Caesar. Now, if one were to look up Tiberium on Google, almost every result except the C&C Wiki won't even mention Mobius' version of its discovery and naming, much less assume that that's how it actually was discovered.
- Bare-Handed Puppetry: OobiEyes.com, a former online catalogue of unofficial Oobi puppets that closed in 2013, had a YouTube "partnership offer" that gave customers free Oobi eyes if they created web videos with their products. The result was a wide variety of Oobi tributes and spoofs appearing on YouTube, including entire series about bare hand puppet characters. Due to the former popularity of such videos, a wiki exists (of course it does!) for cataloging homemade films starring Oobi puppets.
- Characters.Kan Colle Eight: Sports a 16-inch twin gun mount in addition to her aircraft. The wiki even classifies her as an aviation battleship instead of a carrier.
- WesternAnimation.Ben 10 Omniverse: As noted by the show's official wiki, Clyde Fife is basically Napoleon Dynamite as a Ben 10 character.
- Crunchtastic: Strong Bad from Homestar Runner has coined "extracurriculariffic", and his Sblounskched! candy bar has a "crispety, cookety log" in the middle (a cookie center hollowed out to make room for more "candy matter"). There's a lot more. In fact the Homestar Runner Wiki has a page devoted to all the made-up words!
- Fanfic.The Greatest There Was Or Ever Will Be: In the grand tradition of the Internet, the fanfic has its own wiki here.
- UnusualEuphemism.Webcomics: This is yet another unintentionally hilarious element of Christian Weston Chandler's critically acclaimed masterpiece Sonichu. There are too many examples to list, but suffice it to say that the comic basically has its own vernacular based on the author's unusual usage of English. Examples include "pickle" for penis, "China" for vagina, and "raincoat" for condom. The CWCki has numerous pages about the words Chris comes up with, if you're really interested.
- Official Fan-Submitted Content: Within a loose view of the Disney Ducks Comic Universe canon, certain ideas or fancomics submitted to official creators' blogs and heartily approved by said official creators have got some credit, and are treated as such on the Wiki.
- Characters.Pokemon Diamond And Pearl Gym Leaders And Elite Four: In English: Fantina = Phantom. Plus, according to the PokéWiki her name is the same in both English and Spanish. In Spanish, though, Fantina comes from the more obvious word Fantasma note . The wiki also suggests the name is a reference to Fantine from Les Misérables.
- Trivia.Sam And Max: The Sam & Max Wiki.
- Trivia.Magic Kyun Renaissance: Magic Kyun! Renaissance Wikia.
- Trivia.Yu Yu Hakusho: This one and this one, although the former is much better. ► The second link is down
- Trivia.Fantasy Life: ReveriaExplorer, a database for every item in the game.
- Trivia.I Dont Want To Be The Hive Queen: Has one here.
- Trivia.Sky Children Of The Light: The Sky wiki is right here!
- Trivia.Lightning Returns Final Fantasy XIII: The Final Fantasy Wiki.
- Trivia.Changeling The Dreaming: The White Wolf Wiki and Changeling: The Dreaming Wiki.
- Trivia.The Lord Of The Rings: The One Wiki To Rule Them All, and The Tolkien Gateway.
- Trivia.Scape And Run Parasites: Scape and Run: Parasites Wiki.
- Trivia.Lovecraft Country: Lovecraft Country Wiki
- Trivia.Farm Ville: The Farmville Wiki.
- Trivia.Vib Ribbon: The Vib-Ribbon Wiki.
- Trivia.Assassins Creed: Here.
- Trivia.One Hundred Percent Orange Juice: The game has an official wiki.
- Trivia.Twelve Tails Online: The Thailand 12 Tails Online Wiki and Wikia's 12 Tails Online English Wiki.
- Trivia.Shadow Raiders: Shadow Raiders Wiki.
- Trivia.Urusei Yatsura: The Urusei Yatsura Wiki.
- Trivia.Boss Monster: Here you go.
- Trivia.The Moomins: Moomin Wiki
- Trivia.Realm Of The Mad God: Right here.
- Trivia.Redungeon: Redungeon Wiki | Fandom
- Trivia.Choushinsei Flashman: Covered as part of RangerWiki.
- Trivia.Danger Days The True Lives Of The Fabulous Killjoys: The Danger Days Wiki, which covers the album, music videos, and comics.
- Trivia.Guyver: The Guyver Wiki.
- Trivia.Eureka Seven: Eureka Seven Wiki.
- Trivia.Akuma No Riddle: Has a wiki here.
- Trivia.A Thing Of Vikings: Has one located here.
- Trivia.Alchemy Stars: Here is the Fandom Wiki.
- Trivia.CSI: The CSI Wiki.
- Trivia.Welcome To The Game: Made before the game even came out, here.
- Trivia.Dragon Quest Builders: The Dragon Quest Wiki, Wikia Dragon Quest Wiki, and Dragon Quest Builders Wiki.
- Trivia.Ninku: Here it is.
- Trivia.Huntik Secrets And Seekers: Huntik Wiki
- Trivia.The Harlem Globetrotters: The Harlem Globetrotters Wiki.
- Trivia.Forever Knight: The Forever Knight Wiki.
- Trivia.My Little Pony Tales: My Little Wiki covers Generations 1-4.
- Trivia.Outlander: The Outlander Wiki.
- Trivia.Temple Run: The Temple Run Wiki.
- Trivia.Killing Eve: Killing Eve Wiki
- Trivia.Walker: Walker Wiki
- Trivia.Perplex City: Has a wiki Here.
- Trivia.Coconut Freds Fruit Salad Island: The Coconut Fred's Fruit Salad Island Wiki.
- Trivia.Fig Hunter: Here.
- Trivia.Wings Of Fire: The Wings of Fire Wiki and Animus Wiki.
- Trivia.Dragon Ball Z Battle Of Gods: The Dragon Ball Wiki.
- Trivia.GI Joe Extreme: Joepedia, the G.I. Joe Wiki.
- Trivia.Chronicles Of The Kencyrath: http://kencyr.wikia.com
- Trivia.Romantically Apocalyptic: Romantically Apocalypse Wiki
- Trivia.Ultima I: The Codex of Ultima Wisdom, and Wikia Codex of Editable Wisdom.
- Trivia.The Raven Cycle: The Raven Boys wikia. It's infamous among the fandom for being a lot more casual than a typical wiki (most character pages are just emotional rambling and fandom jokes rather than objective information).
- Website.Questden: The Questden Wiki serves as an summary and index for every quest and has a few extra articles on things like advice for running threads and archived links to the various fanart threads. ► Trivia tropes doesn't go on the main page, otherwise it's fine
- Trivia.Sword And Fairy: Softstar Wiki, shared with Xuan-Yuan Sword series.
- Trivia.Alien Trilogy: Xenopedia has information on Alien, Predator, and Alien vs. Predator.
- Trivia.Little Big Planet: There used to be one on LBPCentral, but it's been down for some time. In the meantime, there's also one on Wikia.
- Trivia.Ssalia And The Dragons Of Avienot: Has a wiki here, though without much activity.
- Trivia.Bleach Ultimate Alien: Bleach: Ultimate Alien Wiki. Be warned, it is very much incomplete, so some wiki magic love is much appreciated.
- Trivia.Yu Gi Oh Forbidden Memories: Yugipedia (which forked from the old wiki in 2018).
- Trivia.How To Be A Werewolf: The How to Be a Werewolf Wiki. It could use some help as it just recently was created. ► This example was made in 2020
- Trivia.The Descended: Brian has considered making one to keep track of it. Currently averted, though—Brian considers his TV Tropes page to be detailed enough that he doesn't need a wiki of his own. ► Trivia trope can't be played with.
- Trivia.Hellfire Commentaries: Averted; they started a wiki, but eventually scrapped it in favor of a TVTropes page. ► Trivia trope can't be played with.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2023 at 1:47:12 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
yeah this is where i'm at on both fronts
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, I'm confused at where the sudden pushback is coming from. The issue as presented in the OP is that links to fan wikis are off-mission and kinda pointless. If we go ahead and narrow it to just story-based fan wikis, well... that's basically just saying that people don't see this as a problem to begin with.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Got pagetopped, so I'll repeat: is this also a case of Weblinks Are Not Examples?
(I, too, am not persuaded to change my vote; by the way.)
Edited by FernandoLemon on Jul 28th 2023 at 4:21:05 PM
I'd like to apologize for all this.
the Retromancer
It is, almost all examples are "has a wiki <here>".
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Not really, that's for if the examples rely on what's behind the links for context. In these examples, the fact that the wiki exists is the context; nobody needs to click the link to understand. That's why it's not any form of ZCE — the context is being delivered to the full extent of what this "trope" requires.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 28th 2023 at 3:22:19 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
What am I supposed to think then? Seems like every option being proposed is getting pushback.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I mean, nobody has given a reason for why making this def-only won't work (aside from Septimus, who misrepresented the issue at hand); people just kinda started changing their minds about it when the Fan Wiki discussion started.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 28th 2023 at 3:45:28 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
And that's where I see the issue. If a link to another website is all that's needed to have a valid example of a "trope", then it's not really tropeworthy to begin with.
To be clear on my position, I don't think this is worthy of keeping at all. Me siding with Def-Only is from the idea that the page has 15k inbounds and the term seems to be an old entrenched one on this site. Personally, I'd be fine with cutting it entirely. I'm just also ok with Def-Only as a compromise.
Just cut it, then.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Oh, I'm not saying that it's tropeworthy. Far from it. The fact that these examples don't count as ZCE is exactly why I don't find them noteworthy to talk about. I honestly feel like dismissing the examples as a form of ZCE downplays the issue a bit, since the problem we have is that the concept is poor, not that the examples are.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 28th 2023 at 3:56:12 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I support a cut for the record.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
We could also redirect it somewhere, maybe Rules of the Internet? I'd also suggest Wiki but we don't even have that page.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think redirecting to Wiki Tropes or Other Sites would make more sense than redirecting to Rules of the Internet if we want to keep inbounds, but I do think redirecting would be better than a full-fledged cut due to all the inbounds.
I've slept since my previous post and I think I'd prefer redirecting to Wiki Tropes or Other Sites over the other options after hearing the arguments against the Fan Wiki idea.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 28th 2023 at 7:13:49 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.It's been three days; do we have consensus, or do we pull up a crowner?
I'd like to apologize for all this.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think we could go ahead with a crowner due to how long this thread's been open, but what would the options be?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 30th 2023 at 1:56:26 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
From what's been discussed:
- cut
- turn into an Audience Reaction trope
- make Def Only
- Redirect / Merge into either Wiki Tropes, Other Sites, or Rules of the Internet (this one was brought up most recently so I'm not sure if it's been fully hammered out)
Did I miss anything?
I think someone mentioned tightening the definition/spinning a different trivia trope out for fan wikis that are acknowledged by the work creators?
CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Hooked a crowner. Omitted cutting in favor of redirecting due to inbounds.
I checked and Rules of the Internet would work as a redirect target due to Rule 44 on that page.
I left out changing the definition and splitting because we can't vote on those kinds of changes without knowing the specifics of what it would mean (while the Acknowledged Fan Wiki proposal was clearly defined, it would need go go through TLP to gather examples due to the lack of The Wiki Rule examples that would fit it, meaning we can't rework it via TRS).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 31st 2023 at 4:20:24 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Mild nea to Definition-Only Page, because I'm still doubtful this is a common term that needs a page. I think the info is still significant and could be folded into a page about wikis in general.
Yea'ed Audience Reactions, because it fits there more than Trivia.
For the redirects:
- A Rules of the Internet redirect might be slightly unclear since it's a small mention in a rather long list. Out of all the redirects, it gets a bonus for being the only one to actually describe The Wiki Rule, so I gave it a yea.
- Nea'ed Other Sites, since the page is basically an index in its current state, and it has very little to say about The Wiki Rule, or even wikis. It just lists a few wikis.
- Wiki Tropes is more directly related to the subject than Other Sites. We also have precedent for redirecting a trope to the trope's index (Foot Focus, You Gotta Have Blue Hair). Yea'd it to balance out the nea's.
Voted no to Audience Reaction because this is objective — a wiki either exists or it doesn't.
I'm helping!
Audience reactions aren't necessarily subjective — a Fan Nickname either exists or it doesn't, but it's still a thing the audience is doing to the work.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Voted for D-O anyway. I'd prefer this be cut but I can live with D-O.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Making Crossovers since The New 10's
Voted D-O. I should mention that this page previously was declared No On-Page Examples over a year ago and locked to prevent ZCEs from showing up on the page. Obviously that didn't work off-page, so I'm okay with torching the rest of the off-page ZCEs.
Life is just a dream.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, Audience Reactions are actually objective in that they can definitely be proven to exist, the subjectivity is just that one may not agree with how these fans react. I'm not sure if it belongs in YMMV myself, but there'd be nothing stopping it from counting.
Voted up Def-Only since I see no reason to go for the kill here but I also don't think examples should be around.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Crown Description:
- The Wiki Rule is about how the Internet is capable of generating a fan-made wiki on virtually any topic imaginable (movies, books, TV series, comics, fortune cookies, etc.). It is an 11-year-old trivia trope consisting largely of external links and Potholes. This was brought up in a trope talk a few years ago, and it was eventually added to the Tropes Needing TRS because, and I quote, "[a wiki's] existence is not very notable". Here is the Wick Check.
- 71% of the sample consists solely of links to wiki sites, just pure links. This is probably motivated by its description, which only requires an existing wiki about a work (with a tvtrope page) to count. The remainder is made up of potholes that mention the trope and other examples with links and a bit more meat on the bones. However, I struggled to find any relevance in these last ones, because they simply discuss the wiki's current state or a few details about it, topics that aren't actually connected to the work itself but to the fandom of the work. Two of them even ask the reader to help expand the wiki, using the trope as some sort of ad. Overall, it appears that the trope doesn't have much to offer as a trivia trope in its current state.
- What should be done with The Wiki Rule?
"If we made The Wiki Rule into a Definition-Only Page, it would lose its significance of pointing out that everything has a wiki" isn't something I get really.
Also restricting to fan wikis... well overwhelmingly majority of wikis are fan wikis, so it's effectively "do nothing".
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup