Duplicate Trope: Enthusiasm Versus Stoicism

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013

#1: Nov 28th 2021 at 7:52:31 AM

This should be a quick one. From the description, Enthusiasm Versus Stoicism is a duplicate of Emotions vs. Stoicism. Since the former only has 45 wicks (51 due to 6 coming from a Enthusiasm Vs Stoicism redirect), I think cutting it and either redirecting it to Emotions vs. Stoicism or replacing all of the links with Emotions vs. Stoicism makes the most sense.

Not sure how else to show the two are the same outside of just pointing at the descriptions but here's a small wick check where I just compared 15 wicks from each to show they're being used in more or less the same way. The only difference is that Emotions vs. Stoicism, by virtue of using Emotions and not the more narrow Enthusiasm, covers a wider range of emotions from fear, panic, rage, etc. But the overall comparison is still the same.

ETA: To be clear, I went through all of Enthusiasm Vs Stoicism's wicks and added those that were actual work examples (not just links in the descriptions of other tropes, links in indices, or potholes in the examples for other tropes) and weren't ZCE. 15 was what remained.

Enthusiasm vs. Stoicism

GaoGaiGar: The show explicitly runs on the idea that "courage erases the first two letters from 'impossible'" and Gutsy Geoid Guard has "never give up" written into their bylaws, but no one's silly enough to allow a 30 meter tall robot run around Tokyo without a really good plan behind its actions.
Gundam Build Fighters: Nils (stoic) and Greco (enthusiastic)'s fight in Episode 8 is a clear-cut example. In particular, after the Tallgeese Valkyrie loses its arms, Nils tries to convince Greco to surrender and Greco responds by trying to ram the Sengoku Astray into a nearby rock formation.
Mobile Fighter G Gundam: The Meikyou Shisui requires that the user be able to channel both sides at once.
Samurai Champloo: Mugen vs. Jin.
Video Games: The relationship between Squall and Rinoa in Final Fantasy VIII initially has some elements of this thanks to the conflict between Squall's stoic cynicism and Rinoa's enthusiastic idealism. The trope only really applies up until they reach Galbadia Garden in disc 1, however, after which point Rinoa is more interested in finding out what Squall is thinking than in challenging him over it.
Seven Samurai: Goes all the way from Kyūzō who probably has icewater in his veins over to Kikuchiyo, who's a hop and a skip away from being stark raving loony.
The Roman Mysteries: The Sirens of Surrentum explores the differences between the Classical Greco-Roman philosophies of Epicureanism and Stoicism, with examples of characters that actively pursue each of the two philosophies. The contrast might also be compared to Emotions vs. Stoicism.
Great Teacher Onizuka: Onizuka is firmly on the "enthusiastic" end of this spectrum.
Majestic Prince: Amusingly, Team Rabbits teeters more towards the Stoicism side of the can-do attitude found in most teams involved in mecha, reacting to having to aid in the evacuation efforts of the army and civilians hounded by the Wulgaru with dumbfounded and deprecating remarks...even Mr. "Leader" sighs after being chosen as such, though mostly because he expects the reaction and complaints of his team.
Digimon World: Infamy: Played rather straight here. The villain protagonist Coal is known for being a very stoic person, whereas the heroes of the story tend to be rather hotblooded and emotional.
Octopus Pie: Hanna, who is either giddy or angry - there is no calm.
Life's a Glitch TV: The guys' playstyles can be summarized loosely this way. Adam is cautious and prefers to get everything in order (like securing food supplies and shelter), while Jeff charges headlong into adventure and danger which often causes more trouble than it's worth.
Kung Fu Panda: The fact that Po is so enthusiastic about learning kung fu, combined with his self-esteem issues keeping him from actually making any headway, leads The Stoic Tigress to assume he's treating everything as a joke, when the truth is far more somber.
RUINER: Compared to the almost indecipherable, monolith-like, enigmatic protagonist, she is quite the enthusiastic type, often cheering on her "Puppy" (or consoling him if he has low post-battle scores) and employing a fluent, often colorful and emoji-filled writing style.
Worthy Opponent: Similar to the Bird/Johnson example, we have Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. They epitomized Statistical dominance vs Championships, the charismatic larger-than-life attitude vs politically militant disciplined stoicism, playing for many teams vs staying with one, and individual brilliance vs the consummate team player. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird faced each other 37 times, Chamberlain and Russell faced each other 142 times. Outside of basketball, they were great friends, though the friendship soured after 1969 and was only revived in The '90s.

Emotions vs Stoicism

Avengers Infinity War: Many heroes allow emotions to get the better of them, and this is one of their Fatal Flaws that leads to their demise. Thanos won't let emotions get in the way of his "simple calculus" of what needs to be done and wins in the end.
Warm Bodies: The zombies (and R and Julie) versus the Boneys and Julie's father's security force, the former of whom try to learn to live again, while the Boneys aren't concerned with anything but eating people, and the Army doesn't realize that the zombies are regaining their humanity back, and are far, far too used to desperate survivalism and corpses trying to eat them. Emotions also are the first step to reversing zombification.
Sense and Sensibility: Touched on in the Love Triangle between Marianne, Colonel Brandon, and Willoughby; for example, Marianne much prefers the bunch of wildflowers Willoughby brings her to the carefully-tended tropical flowers from Brandon's greenhouse.
Red Eye: The film plays this in a fairly interesting fashion. Rippner is firm in his belief of stoicism over emotions, but in the end, The Stoic Rippner becomes Not So Stoic and lets his emotions get in the way and causes him to act unprofessionally, while it is Lisa who becomes in control of her emotions and is able to regain control of the situation.
Emily of New Moon: Emily careens back and forth across this scale; she's naturally very high-strung and emotional, but the Murray pride in her means that when she's really hurt she'll make damned sure you don't know it.
Firestar Series: Positive character development usually means gravitating toward a happy medium, more on the "stoic" side of the line but much warmer than the extreme stoicism of the Van Huytens.
Heretics of Dune: The Bene Gesserit stress emotional control at all times as both proof of humanity and a basic survival tool with the Litany Against Fear. Unlike Vulcans, they're more than happy to use emotion as a tool to manipulate others — their emphasis is control, not denial. And it later turns out to be a weakness that Odrade (and Murbella) must reverse.
Legacy of the Drow Series: Entreri is determined to beat Drizzt in order to prove that having friends and emotional attachments is a weakness, that it makes you vulnerable.
Over The Hills Of Green: Anna’s arc involved her becoming less stoic and more emotionally vulnerable.
Those Who Survive: The sweet, cheerful and impulsive Sally, the electronicist from Claudia's crew, and the harsh, commanding and level-headed Claudia herself.
Legend of the Seeker: The emotional half of Kahlan vs the rational half of Kahlan in "Torn", with both displaying negative extremes.
Gossip Girl (2007): Bart and Jack keep telling Chuck he's weak for loving Blair and therefore letting his emotions control him, and that the only way Chuck can become successful is by being stoic. Chuck buys into this completely, telling Blair "I can't let my feelings cost me all that I've built" after he sold her to Jack in exchange for a hotel.
The 100:
- A difference between Clarke and Lexa. Lexa believes that Love Is a Weakness and that Clarke should follow her example if she wants to be an effective leader. Clarke tries and comes to the conclusion that closing yourself off to all feelings is pointless.
- One of the significant differences between Clarke and Bellamy. Despite the above, Clarke is a more logical/necessity-based decision maker, while Bellamy tends to run more emotional/instinctive. She even refers to the two of them as people who think with their head and heart respectively. Flipped around a bit in Season 5, where Clarke points out that she's now the more emotional decision maker between the two of them.
Sherlock: Sherlock's lack of emotion (and also that of his brother, Mycroft) is often shown in comparison the the more emotional John. Whilst Sherlock's lack of emotion helps him to solve crimes, it doesn't always endear him to people.

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 28th 2021 at 1:40:16 PM

Eiryu Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities

#2: Nov 29th 2021 at 12:14:47 PM

Oh, this was stealth-opened.

I concur with merging under "Emotions Vs Stoicism"

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition (Troper Knight)

Big Catch, Sparkle Edition

#3: Nov 29th 2021 at 12:18:21 PM

Merge

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

callmeamuffin ❀ Mint, Nuts, and Waffle ❀ from the kitchen (Trinitroper) Relationship Status: Thinkin' about you, muffin

❀ Mint, Nuts, and Waffle ❀

#4: Nov 29th 2021 at 12:20:15 PM

Merge

Come play Character Uplift Game!

Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

Professor Gigachad

#5: Nov 29th 2021 at 12:51:30 PM

Merge

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013

#6: Nov 29th 2021 at 1:40:32 PM

I posted about this in the main thread last week https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1426750858042389600&page=118#comment-2941

Also, TRS is first come first serve so I'm not sure there even is such a thing called "stealth-opening"

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition (Troper Knight)

Big Catch, Sparkle Edition

#7: Nov 29th 2021 at 1:43:13 PM

There is. "Stealth Opening" is when the mods open it but don't bump it.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)

#8: Nov 29th 2021 at 1:45:00 PM

Aye, I agree that merging with Emotions Versus Stoicism seems to be the path forward.

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013

#9: Nov 29th 2021 at 1:50:24 PM

huh. the more you know.

jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding

Very Spooky

#10: Nov 29th 2021 at 2:44:43 PM

Merge.

back lol

Orbiting Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name

#11: Nov 29th 2021 at 4:32:44 PM

Merge

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu

#12: Nov 29th 2021 at 6:41:56 PM

Merge

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me

Sounds good on paper (he/him)

#13: Nov 29th 2021 at 8:12:22 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013

#14: Nov 30th 2021 at 12:09:38 PM

9 other people agree with the merge and there doesn't seem to be any debate on it given that it's a pretty straight-forward. Can we call this thread to implement this change? Don't wanna keep a spot in TRS if it can be freed up

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 30th 2021 at 3:10:14 PM

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)

#15: Nov 30th 2021 at 12:29:20 PM

Give dissent time to appear; at least three days.

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013

#16: Nov 30th 2021 at 12:57:41 PM

Oop! My b, no problem.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me

Sounds good on paper (he/him)

#17: Nov 30th 2021 at 1:10:50 PM

Since this was opened on the 29th, December 2 is the earliest it can be called.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

eroock Since: Sep, 2012

#18: Dec 1st 2021 at 2:00:46 AM

Again the pattern of duplicate pages being created around the same time in 2008.

themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining

Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him

#19: Dec 2nd 2021 at 9:36:17 AM

Merge

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Piterpicher Veteran Editor IV from Poland, for real (Series 2) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love

Veteran Editor IV

#20: Dec 2nd 2021 at 9:55:12 AM

Merge. It's Dec 2, so we can call.

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three

(she/her)

#21: Dec 2nd 2021 at 10:01:20 AM

Calling in favor of merging Enthusiasm Versus Stoicism into Emotions vs. Stoicism.

Macron's notes

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013

#22: Dec 2nd 2021 at 10:04:14 AM

nice. to clarify, does a merge require de-wicking or just a redirect or both? I'm ok with either

Edited by amathieu13 on Dec 2nd 2021 at 1:05:09 PM

Piterpicher Veteran Editor IV from Poland, for real (Series 2) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love

Veteran Editor IV

#23: Dec 2nd 2021 at 10:06:06 AM

both, I believe.

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three

(she/her)

#24: Dec 2nd 2021 at 10:07:20 AM

You would redirect Enthusiasm Versus Stoicism to Emotions vs. Stoicism and then replace all of the wicks for the former with the latter (if they aren’t misuse).

Macron's notes

amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013

#25: Dec 2nd 2021 at 10:47:20 AM

Got it.

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