Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?
Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?
Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?
Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.
Useful Tips:
- Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
- Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
- Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
- Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
- Wrong: Badass Adorable
- Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
- When is normally far less important than How.
- A character name is not an explanation.
- Wrong: Full Moon Silhouette: Diana
- Right: Full Moon Silhouette: At the end of her transformation sequence into Moon Princess Misty, Diana is shown flying across the full moon riding a rutabaga.
Other Resources:
For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.
Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here
) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads.
For cleaning up examples of Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, you must use their dedicated threads: Complete Monster Cleanup, Magnificent Bastard Cleanup.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 18th 2023 at 11:42:55 AM
I tried searching for a dedicated cleanup thread for The Sociopath, but didn't find anything so I'll ask here.
How strict is the definition for this? The trope mentions five points that would define a sociopath, but some of the examples seem to lack all five of the listed qualities. For example, there's an entry on the Bolt page for one of the characters, Penny's agent. He certainly fits three of the criteria, but it's at best unclear if two of them qualify.
Would like some feedback on whether to cut this entry or not.
I was remembering about the cartoon Richie Rich, and the premise is that he's really kind and generous despite being the richest kid in the world. Would this be Spoiled Sweet? It's cited as being a trope that gets misused a lot and I wanna be careful.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
My initial reaction is that Richie Rich would fit the trope. He's wealthy, maybe a little bit pampered, but a nice guy.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I think there's been discussion about whether or not male examples even qualify. More here.
I'm helping!
From Trivia.Deltarune:
- Lying Creator: When Toby Fox first revealed the soundtrack for Chapter 2's Cyber City in 2019, he notes that "the City is extremely small." In actuality, the City takes up about half of all the explorable area in Chapter 2's Dark World.
Does that really constitute a lie? He might have been calling it small on an absolute scale rather than proportional to the game, or given that the tweet was two years old it's possible that plans simply changed.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
I suppose it's like What Could Have Been...
Or something. It's not the trope initially, but later things make it so.
Like Hilarious in Hindsight...
Hmm... What to call that Trope Trope... Averted Over Time, but Invert the Aversion bit... Over Time...
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
This entry in No-Respect Guy:
- Shifty Dingo from Blinky Bill, ESPECIALLY in Season 2. While he's one of the nicest characters in the show, Marcia often harasses him and even bit him in the "Wedding Picnic" episode.
Ok, I have been working on it for a while now, still not complete but could use some opinions. How is it shaping up, as I an very out of my element when it comes to writing deconstruction topics? Wondering if some things comes across correctly, are redundant, need to be rearranged in a good way or just cut.
- The most obvious and immediate target is the ever so common Black-and-White Morality that so permeates the genre. Often, a conflict is boiled down to two sides with them being neatly categorized into either good or evil with them perhaps even having gods representing said alignments, with them usually being created in a way that is a reflection of the writers own definition of them. Avesta however examines the implications of this with the most blatant of them being that for this to be possible, the system has to be rigged and that true free will cannot exist. Everyone is bound by their alignment since birth without the choice on whether to be virtuous or wicked. Good and evil are instead actions that result from someone merely existing, not much different from eating or breathing. In other words, for this moral binarity to work, the story posits that no one can really be considered good or evil as there is no choice, just people being dictated by a higher power. The effects of all of this is far reaching within the narrative:
- The first and most obvious effect is a rampant Black-and-White Insanity across the board and no expense is spared in portraying just what a toxic landscape this creates. The prologue alone puts on display a good woman committing suicide due to the knowledge that she carries an evil child, all to make sure it is never born. And then there are the instances of siblings being born of opposite alignments, with them being forced into hostility while still loving one another.
- It is also quickly made clear that the only thing that would result from all this is a giant Forever War between the two sides. And should one side against all odds win, then things will just simply reset with the side switched, keeping the war going forever more and displaying the futility of trying to define something as good or evil as what they mean always change.
- Due to the intense tribalism this invites, it also means that people can be blind to someones real agenda and be far too trusting as long as they are of the same alignment, something that Alma and Roxxane capitalizes on by being able to mask their true allegiance even if doing so fills them with disgust. While they can't go full Most Definitely Not a Villain, they still have a surprising degree of freedom in how they are able to act when masquerading as the other side.
- This also means the the ideas of the Heel–Face Turn and the Face–Heel Turn are treated with disgust and dread at best or simple fairy-tales at worst. A concept that has been given it's own distinct name, it is seen as a Fate Worse than Death that should be avoided at all costs with wholesale slaughter of innocents being seen as acceptable if there is even the smallest inkling that it might be possible.
- Additionally, characters of good wont even entertain the though of evil even being capable of things such emotion, empathy or reason, being convinced that any such appearances are simply evil trying to mimic or fool them, even when all evidence point to otherwise or when things such as cruelty and sociopathy are clearly apparent on their own side.
- As everyone's alignment and actions are predetermined by their birth, that also puts the Always Chaotic Evil and Card-Carrying Villain aspect in a questionable state. Often, their actions of depravity are simply a result of them doing what is normal to them or simply following their Commandments like everyone else. After all, they are Evil, it is what they are supposed to do. It is a state likened to the idea of "asking a fish why it swims". And as they are simply doing what they are supposed to, their thoughts and feelings are often separate to their atrocities.
- The Generic Doomsday Villain is something that generally only exists as some simple threat to be dealt with that wants nothing more than destruction. Khvarenah is initially played as this with him being a Planet Eater that only seems to exist to cause destruction whenever he shows up and to be the possible ultimate evil. Except, in the end he is someone who is stuck in his role just as much as everyone else with him bringing destruction by simply existing. Underneath it all is a being with an almost childlike naivete who wants nothing more than to see the beauty and goodness in everything, but to never be able to reach it due to his nature, which in turn makes him keep on searching which only perpetuates the cycle.
- You Are Not Alone is usually something invoked for the sake of heartwarming moments but Avesta portrays a hidden sinister meaning behind it if done poorly. Instead of being heartwarming, it can just as easily become selfish and closeminded that can end up meaning "we'll accept you for how you truly are if you think and act like we expect of you". Yes, you say you accept them for who they are, but are you really? Ends up going through a Decon-Recon Switch in the end where Quinn abandons her preconceived notions about Magsarion and truly this time start to see Magsarion for who he really is and what he really wants, even if it means that she has to break away from thoughts she would be otherwise comfortable with.
- One much derided archetype that sometimes shows up in writing is the Marty Stu or the Godmode Sue, characters whose existence causes the plot to revolve around them, they are the coolest, strongest, most popular etc. Varhram however takes a sobering look at the trope. He was just a regular Farm Boy who rose to become the greatest hero the forces of Good had ever seen at a young age, accomplishing feats seen as impossible such as killing three demon lords by himself in short order, becoming seen as the ideal to live up to. However in spite of all of this popularity, the man himself was actually a lonely man whose power and success had made it so that he could only ever look down upon others like he was the reader of a book, unable to see them in the eyes and only seeing them as pawns, creating a mask of Sociopathy. Additionally he was caught in a toxic spiral of seeking approval, desperate to not lose everyone's adoration which just lead him further and further from everyone else, even those closest to him that still cared for him. In the end, he felt that his power, perfection and popularity was nothing but a curse and wished to be just as flawed as everyone else.
- It also ends up having a secondary effect as he is seen as the end-all-be-all by the people around him, that leads people to project him unto his brother Magsarion and make lots of assumptions on what he thinks and feels, even against the latter's protests. Even when he makes himself clear that he hates his brother, everyone just assumes that he is being emotional or is trying to hide his real feelings. After all, who could hate the great hero?
- The most obvious and immediate target is the ever so common Black-and-White Morality that so permeates the genre. Often, a conflict is boiled down to two sides with them being neatly categorized into either good or evil with them perhaps even having gods representing said alignments, with them usually being created in a way that is a reflection of the writers own definition of them. Avesta however examines the implications of this with the most blatant of them being that for this to be possible, the system has to be rigged and that true free will cannot exist. Everyone is bound by their alignment since birth without the choice on whether to be virtuous or wicked. Good and evil are instead actions that result from someone merely existing, not much different from eating or breathing. In other words, for this moral binarity to work, the story posits that no one can really be considered good or evil as there is no choice, just people being dictated by a higher power. The effects of all of this is far reaching within the narrative:
Edited by matteste on Oct 13th 2021 at 1:46:38 PM
Goku Black
Uh the indentation looks off.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
In what manner?
Moon Queen and Wanderer
Also, the Mary Sue family of tropes are Flame Bait and shouldn't be part of examples.
Edited by Afterword on Oct 13th 2021 at 8:37:23 AM
A smile better suits a hero
the Retromancer
Example Indentation in Trope Lists
When you have a "***" it's a sign that these paragraphs should be merged with the last ** or rephrased as own ** point or either that or last point is unnecessary if you're already elaborating.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Does this example from Franken Fran count as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome?
In the first chapter, Fran notes how brain damage is irreversible. While her solution to bringing back the man's son is science fiction, she points out the actual boy is completely gone because he was dead for several days.
Fran does do her usual thing after saying this, but the manga is openly acknowledging that a genuine revival is impossible and explains why accurately (people are processes by the brain and the brain dies soon after death).
Even when they are the ones specifically targeted by a deconstruction?
Moon Queen and Wanderer
How does one resolve this then? Especially since this is a big part of the final arc.
Edited by matteste on Oct 13th 2021 at 4:00:35 PM
I'd imagine you can easily just say it deconstructs the concept of an overpowered hero or whatever.
Trying one more time here.
From The Extremist Was Right:
- In Dragon Age II, supporting material seems to lean into the direction that escalating the conflict between the Mages and the Templars into a full rebellion was ultimately the right thing to do, as the status quo only kept weakening the mages' position. There was a lot of collateral damage, but depending on the actions of the next player character, mages can undergo a near-180 in public perception. Particularly notable is flavor text revealing that Meredith was not the first Knight-Commander to misuse the Right of Annulment; the events of the Annulment of the Antiva City Circle twenty-five years after the Right first became available paints a grim picture of what likely would have happened to the Gallows if Anders hadn't intervened.
I'm a bit concerned about it in general, because it relies a lot on player perception and it seems to be used as a Audience Reaction, because there's hardly anything in-universe that is justifying the actions taken. The trope itself says the people whom everyone thought were completely right and in-universe it's noted that many, including mages, denounce this character's actions. The supporting material (i.e. comics and supplementary novels) also have that the character is dead, because some events that occur do not occur in a universe where they live.
Overall, this seems more like someone trying to convince others that the actions were right, when they moreso fall under Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters (already listed under). Thoughts? CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
Not sure how this Hillbilly Elegy is an example, since it's supposed to be about viewers reading political subtext into a work that wasn't intended, and the last sentence is linked to Averted Trope when again YMMV items can't be played with and I'm not sure this counts as a notable aversion.
despite the novel's original, clearly political intentions.I'm not seeing how this example from Foundation (2021) qualifies as an "aesop":
And does anything about this example from A Nightmare on Elm Street (2010), suggest Hayley was acting in the film strictly for the money?:
Moon Queen and Wanderer
Sorry I haven't said this before, but I think there's enough negative reactions to Anders' actions in-universe that he doesn't qualify (and while the Mage situation in Dragon Age was already pretty bad before Anders blew up the Chantry, there's no real evidence that it got better, just that the conflict became open), although I'm not super familiar with the inner workings of the trope.
Not sure about the first two, but yeah, just because a performer thinks a work they're in is bad doesn't mean they only did it for the money. That description is adjacent to the trope, at best.
Edited by Afterword on Oct 13th 2021 at 11:12:47 AM
A smile better suits a hero
^^This draft feels like a better home for the second, and yes, the third is a ZCE. Hillbilly Elegy is a work that turns me off so I won't weigh in on the first.
Okay thanks. I was pretty sure myself it didn't qualify, but with it being such a hot-button issue in the fandom, I didn't want to just remove it without a second opinion.
My Little Pony: A New Generation had these What Happened to the Mouse? examples that were removed per cleanup. Someone wants to add it back under Ambiguous Situation.
- Despite this is the same world as Friendship Is Magic, it's never acknowledged how the sun and moon are able to rise and set without the use of magic or someone to move them, or how weather occurs without ponies actively managing it.
- In Generation 4, it's shown that disharmony between the three pony races summons ghostly, horse-like creatures known as Windigos that feed on their negative emotions and turn Equestria into an icy wasteland. Here, the three races living apart and believing the worst of each other seems to have eliminated magic entirely, with no hint of the Windigos ever being a problem, though it's possible they were destroyed at the end of Friendship is Magic.
- Throughout Friendship Is Magic, the ponies make peace and became friends with several other creatures throughout the world, including dragons, griffons, changelings, hippogriffs, yaks, and others. However, none of these other creatures are ever referred to in the film, making it unclear what happened to them or if the ponies became divided from them like they did with each other.
- There is no clue as to if any of the god-level characters from Generation 4 still live. Discord, Celestia, Twilight, and Tirek are fairly explicitly immortal, and elder dragons can live for millennia. Where are they, and if any of the alicorns still live, what happened to cause them to abandon their people? Did they give up their immortality at some point, or lose it when magic ended?
- Are Tirek, Chrysalis, and Cozy Glow still statues by this time? If they haven't been destroyed at some point already (which the pegasi of Zephyr Heights likely could have done after the divide, either out of fear of unicorns releasing them or covering up evidence of ponies working together — the biggest instance of which being the fight with this trio — or both), it is possible that the disappearance of magic released them (given Cozy Glow's ritual had broken the "walk on clouds" spell), though if this was the case, they would be powerless and most likely die of old age by G5's time (depending on how immortal Tirek is and whether it depends on magic or Tartarus). Unless the spell was permanent.
At first I and the thread argued against adding for the same reason they were cut from Mouse, the question was not even touched on in the movie itself. They then argued for adding saying " the Ambiguous Situation page and it doesn't say anything about "It needs to be brought up in universe", only "The alternatives need to be reasonable"." It might be valid, but I'm not sure as these don't sound like alternatives as the main thing/issue isn't in the story. I'm taking here for additional thoughts. I asked ATT and they heavily lean to it not being an example but said to ask here.
What is Where Does He Get All Those Wonderful Toys??
Laconic says: "How does this guy pay for all the gadgets and fortresses he owns without compromising his Secret Identity?"
...
Does this, from Infinite Supplies count?
- Ritsuko from Those Who Hunt Elves is played up as sort of a Cosplay Otaku Girl /k/ommando taken Up To Eleven, but even so her ammo dump never seems to run dry of bullets, grenades, landmines, miscellaneous tacticool equipment or even ARTILLERY SHELLS for the Russian surplus T-72 tank it's all carried on while Trapped in Another World for two seasons. Speaking of this tank (owned by an otherwise perfectly Ordinary High-School Student), it also presents one of the few aversions in the show, as at first it runs on something resembling gasoline squeezed from pear-like nuts until they have the misfortune to run dry and nearly abandon it before it no longer requires fuel, due to being possessed by the ghost of a kitten.
...
If so, then how about the page's Comics examples, of which the first seems to fall afoul of Examples Are Not General...
Edited by Malady on Oct 13th 2021 at 7:19:53 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
~J Kalver I will try to answer your earlier question: it does look like an example of Perverted Sniffing if she's smelling the guy she's crushing on, and it might also be Stalking Is Funny if It Is Female After Male if she's, well, stalking him (following him around and creeping on him without him knowing) and it's played for laughs.
Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 12th 2021 at 7:32:58 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.