Is this an example?

Never read/watched/played whatever it is you're talking about, but parents worry about their children going missing and stuff like that in the real world, even if magic fairy dust is somehow involved. So I'd say it counts as Adult Fear.

Edited by antenna_ears on Sep 26th 2020 at 12:25:48 PM

Someone added King Olly from Paper Mario: The Origami King on the Pintsized Powerhouse page. The thing is Olly normally uses reality warping powers intead of physical strenght and when he do pgysically attack, he turn into a giant and so isn't "pintsized" anymore. So is this an example? Here's the example written:

King Olly from Paper Mario: The Origami King is the smallest Mario villain to date but, practically on his own, he has wreaked havoc all throughout the Mushroom Kingdom that Mario spends the entire game fixing and repairing. He is a zig-zagged case, however, in that while he is capable of immense physical damage, he is shown only to do it by transforming into larger forms; in his default small state, he prefers reshaping his surroundings as he sees fit. That being said, he is in his default small state when he lifts and drops a huge boulder onto Olivia in an attempt to kill her, and he is Made of Iron, with seemingly nobody able to lay a scratch on him except Mario and Bowser.

(Note that the huge boulder mentionned was telepatically thown)

Edited by jOSEFdelaville on Sep 26th 2020 at 10:05:45 AM

Reposting from the previous two pages, so it doesn't get lost:

Is the following example from Spies in Disguise being used correctly, as the last sentence seems to contradict the rest of the example - also it's potholes to Subverted Trope whilst YMMV can't be played with:

• And You Thought It Would Fail: Plenty of audiences were surprised that a movie about a spy turning into a pigeon would end up grossing a decent amount (especially when pitted against major family features like Jumanji: The Next Level and Disney's own Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker and Frozen II) and being so much fun overall. That being said, the film did make the lowest amount of money for a Blue Sky film in the studio's history.

As far as I know, Spies in Disguise didn't make back even twice its budget, which I think is necessary for the movie company to make a profit. So I'd say that trope is misused.

Giving how often this trivia item is misused can I get confirmation on whether the following examples are being used correctly?:

From Utopia:

• Unintentional Period Piece:
  • All of the main characters meet in a chat room on a fan website, which was fairly old-school even in 2013. Modern online communities have moved to social media.
  • When speaking of the fictional "Russian flu," characters make reference to the SARS outbreak in the early 2000s, but COVID-19 would be the more modern comparison in terms of severity.

and From Utopia (US):

• Unintentional Period Piece: The show was instantly dated on the day it came out by having characters reference recent pandemics, but not Covid-19, which struck while the show was still in production and was vastly more deadly than any of those named.

That last one sounds more like Animation Lead Time, except for the fact that it's not animated... Do we have an equivalent for works that aren't animated?

SoundCloud

Unintentional Period Piece has a waiting period of "10 years or exceptional circumstances".

Don't know how we decide what constitutes "exceptional"...

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

That last one needs to be cut. An unintentional period piece is when a work has a ton of things showing when it was made. That it didn't mention Covid-19 doesn't show when it was made, because except for the last year or so, every piece of work in the history of the human species has failed to mention that pandemic.

You might as well call every work an unintentional period piece that doesn't mention the Nintendo Switch. Cut it, please.

And honestly, the other two can go as well. Those aren't Unintentional Period Pieces, they're just works taking place at a certain point in time.

A work isn't an Unintentional Period Piece just because you can tell it wasn't made the year you're watching it.

Edited by MichaelKatsuro on Sep 26th 2020 at 1:14:25 PM

Is the following example from New Warriors 2020 being used correctly?:

• Fad Super: B-Negative's concept of a superpowered teenage vampire goth sounds like the kind of edgy character one would expect to see in the late 90s or early 2000s, but in the 2020s? Not so much.

Vampire Variety Pack is a Sub-Trope of Our Vampires Are Different... Does the second bullet count as the latter so both can count for the work?

Whateley Universe

---

- Done.

Edited by Malady on Sep 26th 2020 at 7:13:30 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

Anddrix: As far as I can tell, the new New Warriors series is cancelled completely. Maybe we should cutlist the entire page. But until then, let's just cut that entry. You were right to question it—it doesn't qualify, since the character isn't based on a current trend. He's only reminiscent of an older trend, that's a bit too vaguely defined to even count as a trend.

Malady: Yep, you can just put both of them under Vampire Variety Pack. It'd be good if you'd fix the indentation while you're at it.

From Characters.Tangled Cassandra:

• Expy:
  • Blue hair, ability to manipulate bluish rock formations and sings a jubilant song about how she's free of her responsibilities and doesn't care about anything now. Yep, Cassandra is essentially what would have ocurred if Frozen's writers went ahead with the plan to make Elsa the bad guy. It's overt enough that there are multiple fanmade videos of Cassandra clips synced to Let it Go, and it works incredibly well. In fact, with lyrics like "No right, no wrong, no rules for me", said song may actually fit Cassandra more.invoked
  • She can also be compared to Catra, though some of their similarities were revealed around the same time and are thus probably coincidental. Still, if one decides to read Catra's backstory, it's difficult not to think you're actually reading about Cassandra, and vice versa.
  • A noble and respected swordswoman who had a Freak Out after discovering who her mother really was and Became Their Own Antithesis, destroying the main character's hometown in the process. Replace the first word with "swordsman" and you get Sephiroth. The two big differences are that Sephiroth is not a Glory Seeker (he already has glory), and is portrayed as too far gone to be saved. The reference is made obvious in the Homage Shot of "Be Very Afraid".

I'm pretty sure the first one needs to go. Elsa's hair isn't blue, and she doesn't manipulate rocks. But oh, she sings! that's unusual for a Disney character! Seriously though, Cassandra's motives, background, and personality are very different from Elsa's.

I'm not familiar with the other two works but the second subentry outright states that the similarities are probably coincidental, and the third one points out that there are big differences.

edit: grammar

Edited by Tenebrika on Sep 27th 2020 at 9:27:29 PM

A RWBY sub-page for The Sociopath was created for six examples; the page has been cut as per this ATT thread. On the thread it was noted that The Sociopath is sometimes used to circumvent the Complete Monster thread. So, before I restore these examples to TheSociopath.Web Animation page, I wanted to double-check that they're legitimate examples of the trope.

Note: Cinder Fall, Adam Taurus and Arthur Watts are confirmed Complete Monster examples as per the CM thread.

The Sociopath examples:

• Roman Torchwick is referred to as "a destructive sociopath" in-universe. He's a ruthless crime boss who has been pulling a string of dust robberies all over Vale, which is revealed to have been done under his boss, Cinder Fall's orders. He has loads of charisma, as shown during a White Fang rally where he manages to sway dozens of Faunus onto his side, and drives an underground train armed with bombs towards Beacon in order to draw Grimm into the city. When he escapes from his imprisonment near the end of Volume 3 and hijacks an Atlas airship, he shows great pleasure in destroying other nearby airships, as shown when he presses a button on the controls pondering "What Does This Button Do?", and when it blows up another Atlas airship, he says, "Oh, fun!" He doesn't check all the requirements though, as he shows genuine concern when his right-hand gal, Neo, is blown off the side of the airship when Ruby unclips her umbrella.
• Cinder Fall doesn't let anything get in the way of her goals, murdering without remorse or hesitation, ruining lives, and even plotting to unleash carnage on vulnerable city inhabitants and school students. She is happy to unleash the Grimm on Beacon Academy and the Vytal Tournament to further Salem's plans to destroy humanity, smiling at the massacre and ordering Mercury to record it. She negotiates humbly and politely to recruit Adam and the White Fang but, when that fails, she slaughters his men to force him to join. She desires power, strength and to be feared by all. After Ruby injures the left side of her body, she begins to develop rage issues and a reckless streak that includes a determination to settle the score with Ruby. Jaune even calls her "broken inside". When Jaune almost injures her face during the battle of Haven, she becomes enraged with his audacity and retaliates by trying to kill Weiss in a way that deliberately evokes the way she killed Pyrrha just to torment him with her superiority.
• During the Black Trailer, Adam Taurus wants to blow up the train they're stealing Dust supplies from. When Blake asks him about the human lives that will be lost, he makes it clear he doesn't care, causing her to abandon him and the White Fang. When Team RWBY attempts to stop the train breaching Vale's defenses, a lot of White Fang is killed in the process. Adam makes it clear to Cinder that he'll force the White Fang to keep working with her as if he doesn't care about his own people's deaths. During the battle for Beacon, he makes it clear to Blake that he's not looking for Faunus-Human equality. He's out for retribution against the whole of humanity, and he's also going to destroy everything Blake has ever cared about as revenge for leaving him. He doesn't blame his own violent behavior for Blake's actions, he blames Blake for causing him to behave violently towards her. He later says his goals are to completely enslave humanity; to achieve this, he begins by murdering the White Fang leader, Sienna Khan, with a smile and a joke right in front of Salem's representative, Hazel, and in open defiance of Salem's plans for the White Fang.
• Although Arthur Watts listens to Salem, he is prideful, holds himself in high esteem and openly disdains his allies. He will manipulate, maim, frame and enable the murder of anyone to achieve his goals, and is particularly skilled at creating chaos through his aptitude for programming, security and engineering. He shows no remorse for the carnage and destruction he helps bring to Mantle and delights in hacking the heating grid to freeze Mantle's citizens to death. Even when he's arrested and imprisoned, he tells Ironwood he hopes that the general will sacrifice everything to fight Salem; even though it could mean the destruction of the entire kingdom, his reaction to the arrival of Salem is to smirk with pleasure.
• Mercury Black murders a man only to discuss comic pictures and joke about the guy he killed. He's casually manipulative, interacting with others only as far as it will benefit himself, such as sparring with Pyrrha to analyse her Semblance and halting as soon as it no longer serves a purpose. He has a high opinion of himself and a great need for stimulation; he is not excited by killing but does enjoy fighting and tends to bore easily if he's not involved in Cinder's machinations; his skirmish with Ruby shows that he will attack someone simply to curb boredom, but stop as soon as it no longer proves interesting. Unlike Emerald, he displays no overt connection to Cinder and qualified when they first met that there needed to be something in it for him before he'd help her. Overall he displays a severe disconnect with other people; that is likely what makes him such a good assassin.
• Jacques Schnee puts his needs and desires above everyone else's, cares about no one but himself, and is superficially charming enough to have convinced Nicholas Schnee to let him take control of the Schnee Dust Company and maintain a good public image in spite of his abusive business practices. This all points to him being a high-functioning sociopath. In Volume 7, he takes Watts's advice during the council election to shut down all non-essential SDC operations, and promises the workers to restore their jobs should they vote him into the council. It incites riots across Mantle, but the reason why Jacques wants the council seat in the first place is so that he can address Ironwood's decisions, which are affecting his company's profit margins.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Those are all examples of Fan Myopia so outrageous that if I were a mod, I'd probably ban the editors responsible on sheer principle. Like, we've got a whole thread for cleaning up crappy Expy "examples" and pretty much everything that's come up there at least tries to sound better than that.

Cut. Cut cut cut cut.

Done :)

Speaking of expies, Characters.Big Hero 6 Krei Tech Industries has this:

• Expy: Of other tech entrepreneurs, such as Steve Jobs and Elon Musk.

An expy should be based on a character, not on a real life person, shouldn't they?

But then, Expy.Animated Films has this:

• The Incredibles:
  • Edna is based on a real-life costume designer for Paramount, Edith Head, though that's more of a case of Comic-Book Fantasy Casting. Many say she was based on Linda Hunt's character Regina Krumm in Altman's 1994 film Pret-a-Porter. There is a serious resemblance, down to her size, her hairstyle, her black dress and her circular glasses!
  • If a place can be an expy, than the middle school that Violet attends is one for Corvallis High School in Corvallis, Oregon, where Brad Bird went to high school. This is down to them having the same mascot (the Spartans). However, since the high school building was torn down in 2005 and rebuilt, it's a little hard to see it now.

Edited by Tenebrika on Sep 27th 2020 at 11:11:04 PM

I don't see any problem with an Expy being based on a Real Life person, but it's long been the policy that they must be based on one, and only one person to count. Both the Big Hero 6 entry and the Edna Mode one are invalid for that reason.

Also, expy is for characters, not settings, so cut the other Incredibles entry as well.

There is a dedicated Expy cleanup thread if you want more input or have other examples to bring up, but these seem fairly clear cut to me.

Edited by HighCrate on Sep 27th 2020 at 9:55:31 AM

This isn't Artifact Name TLP because it isn't a name of an object...

Or at least I don't want it to be that flexible...

It's not a work title...

Is this Language Drift? ... Or not even Artifact Anything because the saddles can still be called "bats", it's just that no one uses that anymore?

Edited by Malady on Sep 27th 2020 at 2:32:40 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576

Shouldn't this example of Artistic License – Geography from VideoGame.Garou Mark Of The Wolves be Patchwork Map:

• Artistic License – Geography: Given that Second Southtown was based on Miami, it has the best and worst of what you'd expect of a bustling metropolis. It has lush forests and waterfalls... Yet it also somehow has the S.S.P. Maneuver Field, which looks like a vast desert that happens to be right on the edge of the city. So unless there's some invisible mountain creating a rain shadow, that particular area shouldn't exist.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Sep 27th 2020 at 10:36:41 AM

Isn't there No Celebrities Were Harmed for real-life people? Well, in the case of Krei, I don't think he's a specific enough expy, so I think Expy is good enough.

Good point, then no, he's not an Expy. Changed my mind.

Edited by antenna_ears on Sep 27th 2020 at 3:54:18 AM

No, because you can't be an expy of multiple people, or an archetype of people.

Ah, you're correct, I'd forgotten about No Celebrities Were Harmed. However, that trope still requires the character to be based on a specific celebrity, not "tech entrepreneurs such as..." followed by two people with nothing in common other than being tech entrepreneurs. That's about as meaningful as saying that a fictional vice-president is based on real vice presidents such as John Adams and Spiro Agnew.

Does Captain Obvious Reveal need to explain why the audience found the reveal obvious, because if so then would this example from Antebellum seem closer to I Knew It!?:

And from the same page, is the following example being used correctly since the laconic for Shocking Swerve says that the plot twist has to come out of nowhere and the page description says that there's "no way that the audience could have ever seen it coming" - which the above Captain Obvious Reveal shows was not the case for this film?:

Yes, Krei's entry seems to say that he is an expy of any random tech entrepreneur while an expy refers to a specific character or person. So, I'll go delete it; thank you for your input :)

And a place can't be an expy; I'll cut that, too.

I'm still in doubt about Enda's entry though ("Many say she was based on..." sounds like a fan speculation; what if this part can be removed and the part about Edith Head can stay?) but I guess I should take this to the cleanup thread. Maybe I should have gone there right away, when nrjxll mentioned it.