Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?
Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?
Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?
Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.
Useful Tips:
- Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
- Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
- Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
- Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
- Wrong: Badass Adorable
- Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
- When is normally far less important than How.
- A character name is not an explanation.
- Wrong: Full Moon Silhouette: Diana
- Right: Full Moon Silhouette: At the end of her transformation sequence into Moon Princess Misty, Diana is shown flying across the full moon riding a rutabaga.
Other Resources:
For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.
Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here
) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads.
For cleaning up examples of Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, you must use their dedicated threads: Complete Monster Cleanup, Magnificent Bastard Cleanup.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 18th 2023 at 11:42:55 AM
From Broken Aesop. If there's multiple interpretations, then how is it "fairly clear" that the trope happens in all of them? I suppose it would work with more evidence, but there's none here?
'Cause one of my interpretations was that the girl had some other half or something that wanted to kill the guy or something, 'cause she had like, at least two forms... A four-eyed sorta murderous one, and the crying sympathetic one.
There's also at least dream imagery with a girl coming out of a digital picture frame, which could be real? Or something else?
... Oh, wait. I just realized there were lyrics, and I've never gotten a translation. *facepalm*
edited 2nd Jan '18 7:11:59 PM by Malady
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
OK. Well then, unless someone could make a convincing argument otherwise, I'm gonna go with your answer (i.e. Magnetic Weapons is the trope for Misaka's example).
Here's a new question.
Several Fan Work examples on Adaptational Curves are of the formula that Character X's physique changes during the story rather than — as implied by the description — retroactively, usually with the explanation that they underwent physical training and/or changed their diet in a way that is appropiate for the physique change.
Here's a few such examples for illustration purposes:
- The Black Emperor: Owing to some intensive training with Sayoko, Lelouch has a more muscular build than his canon counterpart does.
- The Child of Love: Due to her pregnancy, Asuka becomes bustier that she was in the proper series. In the sequel, Rei notes her breasts are now bigger and her bra size has increased by at least three sizes, much to Asuka's embarrassment and anger.
- Coreline: Multiple Alternate Self versions of characters that appear are mentioned to have more muscles than their canon version. Justified because many of those Alternates (that have appeared so far) are superhero versions of a character and several of these are shown (or at least heavily implied) to have taken Boxing Lessons for Superman (or at least gotten some exercise as a general part of their taking as level in badass).
Are such cases genuine examples of Adaptational Curves? Or would it be appropiate to put them under other tropes, e.g. Fanservice Pack?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Saw a work that has entries both on Deliberate Values Dissonance and Values Dissonance.
- Who has sex with his female slaves (or at least heavily hinted), slaves who are under magic to be unable to disobey his orders...
- More recently the issue has been brought much more to the foreground of the story, when Eric refuses to release slaves who saved his life despite of being free of the mind control spell at the time, on the basis that they were just doing what good slaves are supposed to do in any case. It turns out later the real reason he wouldn't release them is that it was illegal to do so under Templar law. He eventually agrees to "sell them" to Trace, so Trace would take any heat for releasing them.
There's some info in each entry that's not in the other.
I think the correct option is to remove the ValuesDissonance.Web Media, because the Values Dissonance is because of in-universe culture...
Laconic.Deliberate Values Dissonance:
That means that every example of in-universe Values Dissonance on the Values Dissonance pages should get moved to Deliberate Values Dissonance, right?
Should I set up a project in Short Term Projects?
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Logic Girl
Someone said that Helen Lorraine from Martha Speaks is an example of Proper Tights with a Skirt. Is she though? She definitely wears tights and a skirt, but she isn't all that prim-and-proper. Well, she keeps tidy and she's not a slob but she's not a huge Neat Freak or pompous or anything.
For every low there is a high.
There's been a discussion here (top discussion on the page) over when a character does or doesn't meet the Ensemble Dark Horse trope.
In the RWBY show, Neo is a very minor character who was hyped before her introduction, but her popularity across the fandom appears to have far exceeded the original expectation. Would an 'intentional Ensemble Dark Horse' be misuse of that trope, or is there a different 'performed above expectation' trope that can be used instead?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Lost in Space
You mean that they wrote a minor character with the intention of making them popular, and succeeded more than expected? Without any familiarity with the work, I'd say that "minor character becomes unexpectedly popular" still fits the trope even if it was something the writers were hoping to achieve.
You might also look at Breakout Character if the extra popularity gets them elevated to the main cast.
Pretty sure that's missing the point of the trope. "Proper" doesn't refer to the character's demeanor per se, but rather the use of tights to preserve modesty/decorum while still wearing a skirt. It's often used to indicate an Ojou or Yamato Nadeshiko: someone who wants to dress like her peers but avoid being overtly sexualized.
edited 5th Jan '18 1:12:38 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
#4754: The difference is that Values Dissonance occurs in a work written in and for its time period when reflected upon by modern audiences, and Deliberate Values Dissonance occurs when a contemporary work intentionally invokes Values Dissonance by depicting a foreign/past culture Warts and All.
Thus, I believe you are correct that the example is Deliberate Values Dissonance, and that In-Universe examples of Values Dissonance should be transplanted.
edited 5th Jan '18 1:16:33 PM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
The character (Neo) has been debated before and was eventually determined to not merit Ensemble Dark Horse because the creators definitely hyped the character before she was ever introduced (to the point where they kept posting pictures of neapolitan ice-cream online all the time — the character's name and colour scheme is connected to that brand of ice-cream).
The character has had an extremely limited role, and hasn't been seen for two series'. The character became extremely popular in the show because she had a quirky, mischievous personality and appears to be mute, so has never said a word on screen, and therefore seems to troll her opponents every time she fights them. As a result, the fandom went from (very) hyped for her appearance to rather batshit in favour of her once she was established in the work. To the point where there's a lot of frustration in the fandom that she hasn't been seen for so long.
So, there's no question that she was previously hyped with the intention of making her popular, and there is no question about her being one of the most popular villains in the entire show.
The reason the question has cropped up again (and it always does periodically for this character because she is such a popular minor character) is because someone has pointed out that a character being hyped and then whose popularity becomes crazy, may still be eligible for the trope by virtue of her exceeding all expectations — the creators wanted her to be popular, but no-one expected her to become quite so insanely popular. So, the question is whether or not 'minor character intended to be popular who becomes even more popular than expected' is an example of Ensemble Dark Horse.
There is a spin-off Chibi version of the show that plays for comedy and she has been transformed into a Breakout Character for that show as a result of how popular she became. She isn't for the main show, however, and the Chibi show has its own separate pages to the main show anyway.
edited 5th Jan '18 1:26:47 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Lost in Space
#4753: Curves or muscles gained during the course of a story wouldn't count for the trope, but if the reason for it is established in the backstory, it's a perfectly good (justified) example.
Pulling this from WrongGenreSavvy.Live Action TV:
- Almost everyone in Person Of Interest (and even the audience for at least the first season) fails to grasp that they're in a Science Fiction Conspiracy Thriller involving Artificial Intelligence and behaves accordingly, at least at first. In the most blatant example, Elias and Dominic both act as if they're in a modern Gangsterland Criminal Procedural, where the person who controls the New York underworld "wins." Both are also inspired by stories of underdogs growing to do great things, and each see themselves as that underdog. Unfortunately, their "grand" war throughout the fourth season is minuscule against the AI war going on at the same time, only attracting the attention of Samaritan in the final episodes... who promptly squashes them both like the minor nuisances they are.
I had previously commented it out for lacking context; troper Shire Nomad substantially overhauled the entry, but I'm still not sure it fits, so I'm pulling it here for discussion.
The entry says that the two characters "act as if they're in" a Criminal Procedural, but it's still very vague on whether they're actually basing their actions on the conventions of that genre in the way this trope requires. While it's not absolutely necessary for an entry to count, actually acknowledging in-universe "you read too many stories" or "this is just like in my favorite TV show!" is a good sign. The way this entry is written makes it look like the viewer (not the characters) is making comparisons between this genre and another, and that's not what this trope is.
I realize I may be being a stickler here, but the Genre Savvy tropes are heavily misused and just underwent a major cleanup operation last year, so I think a bit of extra care is warranted.
Thoughts?
edited 5th Jan '18 3:48:29 PM by HighCrate
No, the other one.
We do have a thread for Ensemble Dark Horse, and Neo hasn't been brought up there.
That said, pretty much all characters are meant to be popular, so I don't think that intent is relevant for the trope. More or less effort is put into trying to make them popular, but if that's external material, rather than effort put into the actual work, you're still talking about a minor character.
With Neo, she's a minor character with very little presence in the series, but while her popularity doesn't quite reach the main four characters, it's close after. As far as the definition of Ensemble Dark Horse goes, she fits. Her popularity far exceeds her place in the story, and I'd argue even if you include the external promotions and stuff.
Check out my fanfiction!
Reposting as I'd like a second opinion (also the example's been edited since the last time I brought it up).
How does this Arc Fatigue example from YMMV.Steven Universe sound? I think it's a bit too general without really describing the problem, and the second sentence is a run on.
- Arc Fatigue: One of the biggest criticisms of the show is it's slow pacing. It often takes a while for there to be any sort of resolution to the then ongoing storyline or to do anything with the characters that involve them in some way (for example, the diamond council was first mentioned in season 1 and, aside from a few brief appearances afterwards, it wasn't until season 4 that they actually got any legitimate focus). Not helping is The fact that the arcs also include a large number of episodes that bar no actual significance to them, plus the very long and frequent hiatuses in between, do not help whatsoever.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
@4760: OK, but is there a trope that is applicable to gaining curves/muscles during the story that those non-examples of Adaptational Curves could be transplanted to? I'm guessing for curves it's Fanservice Pack, but I don't know about muscles.
Lost in Space
Muscles on male characters are pretty much universally a form of fanservice, so I'd say it's fine to put it there.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
I dunno, sometimes a character getting more muscular is not for the Fanservice Pack factor, but to signify that they're improving their physical strength and/or fitness. Kinda like how Muscles Are Meaningful correlates large muscles with both strength at the cost of slowness and small ones with speediness at the cost of fragility, you know?
I've transplanted the examples that I'm certain about them not being Adaptational Curves. The following are the entries that I'm uncertain about.
- In Child of the Storm, the formerly short and skinny Harry hits a growth spurt thanks to his grandmother correcting malnutrition stunted growth and setting a proper diet and being a teenager whose dad happens to be Thor. Additionally, hand to hand combat training leads to him putting on additional muscle, something noticed and appreciated by an increasing number of straight/bi female students, and gay/bi male friends. The result is that part way through 3rd year, he can pass for 15/16, and by the time he's around 14 and a half, he can pass for 17/18.
- Evangelion 303: Due to being twenty-one, stopping exercise due to a plane crash that rendered her comatose for several months and a change in diet, Asuka is more stacked than she was in the original show.
- In Pokémon Reset Bloodlines, Misty has a more impressive figure than she did in the anime. This is justified, because she's five years older than she was in the original timeline and closer in age to her sisters in the original show, who were quite curvy.
- This applies to other characters who have aged up, including Ash and May. Iris however is stated to not be particularly curvy.
- Coreline: Multiple Alternate Self versions of characters that appear are mentioned to have more muscles than their canon version. Justified because many of those Alternates (that have appeared so far) are superhero versions of a character and several of these are shown (or at least heavily implied) to have taken Boxing Lessons for Superman (or at least gotten some exercise as a general part of their taking as level in badass).
edited 6th Jan '18 1:41:20 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Reposting from the previous pages, so it doesn't get lost:
Is the following example from Freaky Friday (2003) being used correctly?:
- Unintentional Period Piece: All the gizmos Tess puts in her purse and has to juggle on a daily basis would definitely not have been included had the film been made in The New '10s. Even just entering the next decade, she would have had a single smartphone to replace all of it, which might have made the theme of her workaholism keeping her away from her family harder to convey.
Avatar by Leafsnake
@Crossover: As is, it's a bad example. Needs to be rewritten or chucked out.
Logic Girl
Well, Helen's a kid, so I don't think she wears tights for that reason...ugh.
For every low there is a high.
I'm all for chucking it.
The Arch-Douchebag
Did You Just Punch Out Cthulhu?. Does it refer specifically to killing a divine being, defeating it in a fight or can it be used when a mortal character defeats a god in some other manner, like drinking contest for my example?
Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.
So it's been about 5 days, any chance I could get somekind of response to the example I brought here?
Avatar by Leafsnake
@Crossover: Delete it, leave an edit reason why and make it clear that someone can take it to Discussion if they want to make a new one.
Done. I think I left a good reason.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Over on YMMV.Blaz Blue Cross Tag Battle, I cut several incorrect examples of Unexpected Character, including characters that were commonly expected to make it into the game, but were announced even earlier than predicted. These examples were then added back. So, does the order in which a character is revealed matter for Unexpected Character?
The examples in question:
- Unexpected Character:
- Downplayed with Rachel and Hazama. It's not so much they were unexpected (in fact, people already had a pretty good assumption they were going to be in note ), but rather that they were announced before BlazBlue's main heroine and poster girl, Noel Vermilion (who wasn't revealed until the following character showcase).
- The fourth character showcase had curveballs from the BlazBlue and Under Night sides. While Yukiko was expected to be next in line from the Persona 4 Arena cast (as the character reveals so far had followed the order in which the Yasogami High students joined the Investigation Team), almost nobody saw Azrael and Gordeau being announced before other expected characters from their series such as Hakumen, Tsubaki, Makoto, Orie, and Seth.
Well Wave-Motion Gun is specifically about massive beams fired from large things mobile suits or starships, using objects as weapons is quite a bit more rarer I think.
I can think of 1 example where ships deliberately fired asteroids at high speeds as a planetary bombardment which fits Colony Drop, I cant think of really anything else.
edited 2nd Jan '18 1:05:04 PM by Memers