Is this an example?

The YMMV and Trivia pages for We Are Our Avatars seem out of date and verge into Real Life Troping, but this Creator Breakdown example feels strangely targeted. There are similar ones throughout the page, but this stands out for its poor spacing and detailing.

• For an individual example, arcadiarika is rather... an interesting case. She started off fine, but after approximately the Father arc, she would turn negative. Her characters became affected because of her attitude, and to keep it short and simple, Wangst occurred to the point where, at one point, one player was fed up with her attitude and quit—granted, she admitted that she hated him, but that was not a good excuse.
  
  But then came her "break" starting in December, and while she hasn't officially rejoined the game yet, she seemed to have gotten better, as she acknowledged her mistakes in the past and took great lengths to fix them by using different "What If?" scenarios, ideas for potential arcs/mini-arcs, and new character ideas. She also had greatly mellowed out for the most part and gained a more positive self-esteem overall. Due to her short sessions, it showed that she kept up her streak.
  
  It was not to last, and on June 2012, she decided to leave WAOA after she would do one final arc, citing the difficulties of roleplaying in a Slice of Life roleplay and overall bad blood between most of the roleplayers and herself as reasons. She initially left the game a month later after the arc was done, as promised; she returned to the roleplay a few years later, having greatly improved on both her skills as a roleplayer and her behavior overall.

Isn't that about an actual troper? Cut, it's way too gossipy

There are far more outdated Creator Breakdown and Old Shame entries that talk about real life people: Another notable example:

• Old Shame: Ever since his return to the game, Midna has been deeply ashamed about letting almost every single one of his characters derail over his obsession with Mana, to the point that one of the first things he did upon his return was to promise, multiple times, that it wouldn't happen again.

• Badass Decay: Hakumen also suffered Badass Decay as he lost his Knight Templar traits and his aggressive "with-me-or-against-me" mentality. He even ended up crying once! This might be justified, though, as he went from pretending to be sociable to really being sociable, and actually has friends and people who care about him in this world.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Feb 16th 2024 at 7:37:50 AM

This was recently added to Tainted by the Preview on the Final Fantasy VII Rebirth page;

• When the demo revealed the scene of Cloud possibly stealing a pair of Tifa's panties—transliterated as "Orthopedic Underwear" in the English localization—was changed to him simply going through her wardrobe, some fans of the original game took to social media to complain that this was a sign that Square-Enix was ruining the game by catering to "woke" Western sensibilities. Others thought that the scene—particularly Aerith joining Tifa in berating Cloud—was even funnier than the original.

Judging by the addendum at the end, which arguably makes the edit come off more like a Broken Base entry, it would appear that the troper does not agree with the portion of people complaining about this, hence why I didn't bring this up on the "Removing complaining, bashing, etc." page. Given that the "issue" is relatively minor, compared to what is detailed in the other Tainted by the Preview edits, should the edit be removed?

I'm the one who added it, having noticed a number of people on YouTube and Twitter whining that the removal of the underwear theft scene (and giving Tifa a sports bra and Modesty Shorts) were signs the game was "ruined" by Square-Enix kowtowing to Western "wokeness"—and you're right that I do not agree with that opinion. I wholeheartedly approve of the change, though I tried to cover the matter objectively.

But why should it be removed just because the "issue" is minor? That doesn't change that it's something from a preview that's engendered a negative reaction from a certain set of fans, and Tainted by the Preview "covers all those instances where the would-be audience for something yet to come out immediately decides it detests something about it"—though perhaps "They Changed It, Now It Sucks!" would work better.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 16th 2024 at 8:28:32 AM

Yeah, an audience reaction is an audience reaction, regardless of if it's logical or important.

Fair enough. Just wanted to check, just in case. For one, as previously mentioned the “issue” was built around far more pettier reasons than the other examples listed, plus there’s the whole “unintentionally coming off like a Broken Base edit to a certain extent” part that I mentioned. On a personal note, I’m just really not a fan of the W word (comes off as way too vague, unprofessional and immature in my opinion); but, ultimately, that’s really just a me problem. Sorry to bother you both.

Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Feb 17th 2024 at 3:52:36 AM

From Trivia.OKKO Lets Be Heroes:

• Role-Ending Misdemeanor: While Chris Niosi's roles in Re:Zero, Fire Emblem: Three Houses, and Mr Osomatsu were recast with Alejandro Saab, Zach Aguilar, and Sean Chiplock respectively, at the very least he was allowed to continue his role as Ernesto for the rest of the series after Niosi admitted to emotional and sexual abuse.

Thoughts?

Looks like an aversion which doesn't belong on that page. The examples belong on the pages where his role was affected.

Not sure if this goes here, but in King of the Hill there's an episode where Hank tells Peggy she should just 'let sleeping dogs lie', in regards to her exposing Nancy's affair.

Peggy eventually decides not to for the sake of Joseph, and the episode ends on a shot of Ladybird curled up and asleep on the floor. A literal sleeping dog.

Would this count as a Visual Pun?

Edited by viva_la_pasta on Feb 17th 2024 at 10:15:41 AM

Sounds like a deliberate payoff to the phrase, so yes.

Film.Drag Me To Hell has this weird example (that hasn't been crosswicked on Designated Victim):

• Designated Victim: Sam Raimi has explicitly stated in an interview that Sylvia was the victim of the story. While it most certainly doesn't appear that way at first, closer watching suggests that it wasn't the old woman who attacked Christine, while Christine's behaviour becomes more typical of a horror protagonist as the movie progresses to avoid her fate.

I don't even understand what this is trying to say. I found an interview where Sam Raimi said Christine was a "morally bankrupt character" (with the implication that she deserves her fate), but I have no idea where the "a closer watching suggests that it wasn't the old woman who attacked Christine" thing is coming from. I guess the idea is that Christine's hallucinations of Sylvia were caused by a demon (not Sylvia's spirit), but Sylvia was the one who cursed Christine to be haunted by the demon in the first place (and I don't see how you can deny that Sylvia attacked Christine in the parking lot, which happened before the curse was even in effect). I also don't see what any of this has to do with the Designated Victim trope, which seems to be more about the same character repeatedly getting kidnapped (or getting into similar danger).

Do you see anything in the example I don't see (in which case it would likely need a heavy rewrite), or is it safe to zap it?

According to Hidden Mechanic, Guide Dang It! is for Unwinnable Without A Guide stuff?

So this should be removed in GuideDangIt.Western RPG, since it's just a good sword?

• Excalibur. This is one of the easiest artifact weapons to get, and one of the in-game "rumors" (which pop up in fortune cookies, from the oracle, etc.) says "They say that the lady of the lake now lives in a fountain somewhere." However, even if you do manage to work out from vague hint that you're supposed to dip a longsword into a fountain to have it turn into Excalibur, there are no hints of the additional requirements of being a lawful character of level 5 or greater for this to work, and no messages saying why you have failed or why you're successful. Further, it only works 1/6 of the time, so even if you stumble on the correct combination you could rust multiple swords into uselessness trying it.

...

And is this even an example of any trope, from the same page:

• It has been long debated as to whether Net Hack is possible to beat in its current form without recourse to spoilers or sourcediving. Arguments end up focusing on what exactly constitutes a spoiler and whether price-based identification of items is actually cheating or not, but the general suspicion is: yes, it is theoretically possible, but it's seriously hard work — and proving such an achievement is even harder.

Edited by Malady on Feb 17th 2024 at 5:04:44 AM

An odd one for Medium Awareness - from RuPaul's Drag Race UK vs the World, which is a competition show with contestants, not characters, and no fourth wall.

Even so, this seems to show an extra level of awareness:

• Medium Awareness: It's a Reality Show, so there's No Fourth Wall. Even so, Choriza May lampshades the nature of the show in season two, when it becomes clear that one of the two Spanish contestants will be eliminated, commenting that the editing will add "sad Spanish music" and "cries in Spanish subtitles" to the scene. The production plays along, briefly changing the music and adding the subtitle.
  Choriza May: Now is when they play like really sad Spanish music. [everyone laughs] Subtitles say "cries in Spanish".
  [music immediately swaps to mournful Spanish theme]
  Subtitle: [CRIES IN SPANISH]

Edited by Mrph1 on Feb 17th 2024 at 6:38:50 PM

At DiedDuringProduction.The Simpsons, I found this rather dodgy example.

• The passing of Jackie Mason in July 2021 had this impact on Rabbi Krustofski. It is unknown if the character will be retired (being that he passed away in "Clown in the Dumps") or if he will be recast.

While yes, the show is indeed still on the air, the entry admits that his character is dead (and to add on, "Clown in the Dumps" aired one month shy of seven years before Mason himself died). Keep or toss?

Found this on Characters.Love Live Muse

• Jerkass Has a Point: One of the arguments she makes against the formation of an Idol Singer group is that their school has never had one before and if they fail, they'll just end up making the school look even worse than it already does. Even Honoka can't deny that the plan has no guarantee of success, which is ultimately what pushes her to take the whole thing seriously (which she previously hadn't been doing). [[spolier: It eventually turns out that Eli is talking from experience, as she put all her effort into becoming a ballerina only for it to be All for Nothing in the end.]]

I don't much about Love live but as written, Eli doesn't seem like a Jackass. Just stating facts.

I would say cut if the character was retired by dying before the actor even did, especially since IIRC Mason was essentially a recurring guest star.

Considering that Eli is doing whatever it takes to keep Muse from continuing, I think it counts as an example. She may have a point, but she's not saying it to help them. Besides, Superstar has a very similar example that qualifies.

Edited by JoeDevaney29 on Feb 18th 2024 at 1:47:48 AM

Found an example of Hate Sink that I find questionable.

• Hate Sink: While Shono may have had sympathetic motives for creating AD-9 at first, he quickly loses all sympathy when he crosses every moral line and resorts to murdering an innocent woman and framing her boyfriend for the crime to cover up his murder of Waku. And if that weren't enough, he engages in human experimentation on yakuza thugs, trying to improve a drug that could never be made safe for humans; a fact he knew, but chose to ignore out of some kind of twisted determination.

Okay, I have to be honest here- Shono is overhated. It's stated clearly that he's driven by the tragic loss of his family, even if it definitely doesn't excuse his actions. The fact that people have been bashing him since day 1 is the whole reason Kuroiwa and Ichinose took so long to be proposed as Complete Monsters, even though Shono is A Lighter Shade of Black to both of them. Besides, Sombron was recently removed due to his "love" for the Emblem of Foundation, even though that "love" is closer to twisted admiration than genuine care. If Sombron doesn't count, then neither does Shono.

Wanted to check is this entry counts as an example of Diverging Evolutionary Phases before removing it.

• Going even further, there are some Pokémon where only one gender can evolve to the final form and the other cannot evolve at all. A good example is Vespiquen, which can only evolve from female Combee, while male Combee cannot evolve period.

If the male Combee had its own separate evolution it would, but since it doesn't I'm skeptical it counts.

I've seen Posthumous Character examples added back to Greater-Scope Villain. I thought those didn't count, instead going under Villainous Legacy, as GSV could theoretically become more active in the story. That the case?

I recall it being discussed somewhere, and have seen the GSV description edited over it, but I can't find any formal place it was decided. Anyone know anything about that?

Bumping because I want more opinions.

It needs more context to be a good example. It doesn't establish that the character in question is a jerkass.

In the USA before the Civil War, would a person who catches escaped slaves in order to return them to their owners be a Bounty Hunter?