Is this an example?

Adaptational Personality Change has an issue where people take every minor deviation (Alice laughed at Bob's joke in the film where she didn't in the book, obviously she's a jokester now), but that becomes more apparent with long running comic characters. Some writers wrote Superman seriously, others wrote him as campy. I think it needs a very drastic and clear shift from their overall 'editorial' personality to count.

ETA: It's also not about tone. So if comic Supes is "idealistic" and show Supes is "idealistic but grounded" I don't think that's a personality change.

Edited by Synchronicity on May 4th 2023 at 2:10:57 PM

In Star Wars Jedi: Survivor, there's an entry for Black Dude Dies First that I'm not sure about. It reads as follows:

In the prologue, Bravo is actually the last member of Cal's team to die on the mission. Only seconds before they escape, presumably to make it even more tragic.

I guess it's technically inverted for the group of characters that die at that moment in the game, but I can't help but feel like it's not in the spirit of the trope? For reference, the characters that die before are Gabs, a white female human, and two male Klatoonian aliens and they're not the only characters that die throughout the story.

EDIT: Generally speaking, these seem more like Sacrificial Lambs to me, just in terms of what role they play.

Edited by YourIdeas on May 4th 2023 at 12:34:59 PM

Reposting from previous page: is this Parody or Satire?

• More Fragging Paperwork spoofs the tendency of mid-2000s Transformers fanfic writers to have the robots reference filling out paperwork as a form of humor, despite their coming from a society where paper itself is completely unnecessary. The fic centers around Optimus Prime having to do paperwork in the form of commiseration letters, the act of which is incredibly dull and tedious. It's so annoying to do, the Cybertronian word for it translates to "that frag we have to fill out when someone kicks the bucket", Optimus starts wondering if the Decepticons invented paperwork to frustrate people to death, and he eventually tricks Ultra Magnus into doing it for him.

"My job here is done." "But you didn't do anything."

So is Adaptational Seriousness (albeit Downplayed) more fitting for the DCAU Superman? He's more confrontational, paranoid, and willing to kill as well. Here are some examples: https://i.ytimg.com/an_webp/JHqw4U0ARzc/mqdefault_6s.webp?du=3000&sqp=CJGG0KIG&rs=AOn4CLD8fahuiKiiv2fdp7anKUZyh8CoEA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzqj87d8Ojo&pp=ygUVZGNhdSBzdXBlcm1hbiBzZXJpb3Vz

I noticed that the Spider-Man of the MTV has an entry on Adaptational Seriousness that says he is less jokey than most versions and has a cynical side. This caused me to realize that the DCAU Superman is more cynical, confrontational, and serious than most versions in addition to having his idealism presented more realistically than campy.

Edited by Thetropemaster101 on May 4th 2023 at 12:54:13 PM

There are some tropes I want to add to PARANORMASIGHT: The Seven Mysteries of Honjo.

First, does this one fit? Specifically, is "inducing a heel-face turn at the end" enough of a plot driver?

• Almost Dead Guy: At the "Conclusion" chapter, Ayame uses her Curse Stone on Tsutsumi, causing him to get bludgeoned to near-death, only to stand up again long enough to tell her that he truly considers her his daughter and that it's not too late to atone. This is enough to get Ayame to abandon the Rite of Resurrection.

Second, is this one Bookends, Where It All Began, Set Right What Once Went Wrong, or something else?

• Yoko is killed in the very first route, and the rest of the story continues from the branch that prevents her death. After Yoko is revealed to be the Big Bad at the end, the secret ending is achieved by returning to the branch in which she was killed.

Still need help with this example.

Still waiting for thoughts for this post.

"I just need one of you to come here to give your life to the sun god. It will be for the monkey city's glory."

The following Game-Breaker example was added to Mega Man Battle Network:

• Everything to do with the new Legacy Collection. On top of getting rare event-only chips (the strongest ones) right off the bat once you boot up each game, you get the mighty Buster Max Mode. You thought the Legends series' version of Buster Max was broken, this one's worse. On top of making the damage from your default weapon do a whopping 100 points of damage for each shot, unlike the Legends Series, all the upgrades you get for your buster stack and further Multiply the damage the more you upgrade it. On average, if you just focus on maxing out the Mega Buster's power attribute, you'll be doing a whopping 600 Damage per SHOT. Which is as strong as one of the more powerful of the Program Advances. And that's just for BN 1. This isn't even getting into later installments boosting the power even in forms like the GutsStyle Changes or the Navi Customizers.

According to the trope page, Game-Breaker is "element of gameplay that unexpectedly trumps all others". Note that this is not another word for 'overpowered'. To be a true Game-Breaker, the ability or character in question must be so hideously unbalanced that it makes people just quit the game in disgust.

This is not the case for the ability in question. According to the official manual, the Buster Max was deliberately designed to be Purposely Overpowered. It's also disabled for multiplayer battles, so it doesn't break the game's competitive balance either.

Requesting permission to remove, as a similar example had been added to the article previously, and I would start an Edit War by removing it again.

First of all, I want to repeat my question about how long within the story proper (as opposed to backstory) a parent can be alive and present in the child's life and still count as a Disappeared Dad or Missing Mom. I was under the impression this is for parents that are virtually absent in the story, but Mufasa from The Lion King (1994) is listed as one and even is the god of the trope in the pantheon despite being alive and there for Simba for a good half of the movie.

Also, I was looking through examples of The Epic and Puella Magi Madoka Magica is listed, but I'm not sure if it counts. It is a 12-Episode Anime, so not a particularly long story, and for most of the story the scope is limited to a single city although the main character's actions in the climax has implications for the rest of the world. Does this count or should I remove it?

Finally, The Four Gospels is listed under Bittersweet Ending, but I feel this is inaccurate and it would fit better under "Ray of Hope" Ending. The difference between the tropes, as I understand it, is that Bittersweet Ending is the heroes win but at a painful cost, and "Ray of Hope" Ending is that the villains win but it's hinted that it's not over left for the hopes of the good guys and things will get better. The latter fits the Four Gospels better, I think, in that Jesus is killed having seemingly not done anything to change the world from its horrible state, but he is going to come back soon and save the world, and his followers have to keep that hope even in horrible times. Can I change that trope listing accordingly?

Edited by molokai198 on May 4th 2023 at 9:22:48 AM

I'm planning on adding this entry to My Impossible Soulmate but I need to know if it counts

• Aerith and Bob: Inhabitants of The Other World have standard Japanese names like Nara, Nagisa, and Eiji; western names like Keegan, Redginald, and Theodor; and then names like Belial and Eligos. Justified, as the latter names are demonic names formed as a result of corruption and weren't originally their birth names.

The thing that makes me doubt it a bit is that the whole comic makes use of Translation Convention. Something that the main character Chiaki even lampshades.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

[cracks knuckles]

You'll have to elaborate on how this negates Aerith and Bob, because it seems like a legitimate example as written.

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• Disappeared Dad and Missing Mom: I don't like setting hard limits because works are unique. Without investigating further I think the qualitative answer is 'enough time passed in universe without their absence that it has a significant effect on the family/character life'. Mufasa dies at the end of the first act, but early enough that most of Simba's characterization is informed by being fatherless.
• The Epic: I don't think so. I think that work is shoehorned in a lot of honorable grandiose places.
• Bittersweet Ending: I don't really know if the gospels can be said to have one 'ending' (they don't tell the same plot four times over...) but Jesus's resurrection at the end is always portrayed as something awe inspiring. So the bleakness to hope ratio is much higher than what I'd usually consider "Ray of Hope" Ending (which is like...95:5)

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If it's meant to be overpowered, it's not a Game-Breaker (note: I am not a 'gamer')

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x4 [1]

I don't think 'one gory and excessive fight' is Rasputinian Death. That's usually more "and then he gets shot by arrows, and then dropped into a vat of acid".

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x5 [2]

No, Good Republic, Evil Empire is very specifically good republic, evil empire — ie. having one guy call all the shots is bad, representing the people is good. That writeup is describing a Good Kingdom / Evil Empire. (And the combo of "implied and heavily downplayed" doesn't really inspire confidence)

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x6 [3]

• Almost Dead Guy is more about revealing plot details, "tell x I love her" and similar is more Final Speech.
• The branch question needs more context. Does "returning" mean time travel (Set Right What Once Went Wrong is normally this)? Does it happen at the very end, while the unspoilered part happens at the very beginning (Book Ends).

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x 7 [4]

Without clicking on the links, I'm saying I'm not convinced it qualifies for Adaptational Personality Change, so by subtrope definitions it doesn't qualify for Adaptational Seriousness.

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x8 [5]

It doesn't sound like either. A parody usually has a specific target, and a satire usually has sociopolitical connotations.

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x9 [6]

No, that just reads like "a black guy died at some point".

Edited by Synchronicity on May 4th 2023 at 9:15:14 AM

By Translation Convention, I mean that the dialogue in the Other World is being translated into a language that Chiaki, who's Japanese, can understand. For all we know, names like Nara Kendry and Nagisa may as well not be what their name sounds like/is in the language of The Other World.

Then again, it's not made clear whether TOW's dialogue is being translated to Japanese, Chiaki's Japanese speech is being translated into the TOW'a language, or maybe both.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

Returning means selecting a part of the timeline to continue from. The player is their own entity and has a direct impact on the story branching, so you could say the player is time-traveling. The unspoilered death happens at the beginning, and its branch is short. At the end of the main campaign, the player has to return to the first branch to get the secret ending.

Spoilers for Elden Ring concerning Marika. I don't like the wishy-washy nature of the first sentence so wanted to double check.

• The Bad Guy Wins: For a given definition of 'bad guy', at least. Though her true motivations remain a mystery, it's highly implied the whole plot of the game, the Shattering, the creation of the Tarnished, Hewg's given task as well as the Roundtable Hold itself, were all a plan to kill the Elden Beast, and with it destroy the Golden Order dictated by the Greater Will. She inevitably succeeds in this task in all endings, though if what replaces that is something better or worse depends entirely on the player's chosen ending.

CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors

So Akuma doesn’t die a Cruel and Unusual Death?

Edited by AlicornGaia on May 5th 2023 at 1:40:50 AM

"I just need one of you to come here to give your life to the sun god. It will be for the monkey city's glory."

The trope requires a clear, intentional "bad guy". Cut.

Graffiti Wall

Revisiting this one, the Breakout Character example from Yellow Claw.

I'm broadly comfortable it's misuse, so I'll probably cut it in the absence of feedback, but would be good to get a second opinion.

To those who watch American Auto, would development of the Pika 10K be an In-Universe example of Troubled Production? To those who don't watch the show:

• The car is initially priced around fourteen thousand dollars, but Katherine cuts the price down to ten thousand because she believes that customers prefer round numbers. As a result, they have to cut several corners to make the car profitable resulting in The Alleged Car.
• An attempt to open a factory in the mid-west is hit with a counter offer to produce the car in a country known for human rights violations. They weigh the decision to withdraw from the mid-west and build in the other country and eventually bail on the town, only for a coup to break out in the other country and them to practically crawl back to the town.
• The car is officially unveiled at a dealer event where Katherine crashes the car while loopy from medication. Also, discussions with the dealers has many of them admitting they wouldn't be selling the car. The executives later hatch a plan to sell the car directly to the customers online.
• The car's official unveiling is interrupted by a news bulletin on a typhoon in China which cripples the stock market. Eventually, the car becomes a success with two hundred thousand online orders and praise for its simplicity.

Found this in Characters.Kamen Rider Zi O Time Jackers.

• The Sociopath: Shows symptoms of a realistic textbook sociopath; Swartz sees everything or everyone around him as a means to an end, being calculating and manipulative. He sees his fellow Time Jackers as beneath him, going as far as to use Heure as the host for Another Kikai. He is incapable of empathy, having the audacity to outright ignore the opinions of others (from his underlings, contract holders, and even the heroes).

This character doesn't have fake charm and is not impulsive. Does he still qualify?

Graffiti Wall

On the main page for Souls-like RPG, someone listed Zelda II: The Adventure of Link recently as an Ur-Example without any context or cross-wicking. The Souls-like classification can be murky in general as in many cases, it's really just describing Action-RPGs that have shared mechanics and similar themes but I thought Adventure of Link took more inspiration from Castlevania in general? Souls-like, as least to me, seems more like a modern approach to making games deliberately Nintendo Hard where games before were Nintendo Hard to make sure they lasted longer than an hour.

Fine to remove?

Edited by YourIdeas on May 5th 2023 at 8:15:38 AM

Zelda II: The Adventure of Link is hard, but it lacks some qualities of Souls-like RPG like stamina bar, using exp points in shops, or just the ability to dodge. So I don't think it counts.

Souls-like RPG is currently classified as a trope, so the list of works not clarifying how they apply is kind of a problem.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

this example on TheArtifact.The Simpsons just baffles me:

• Sherri and Terri Mackleberry are a parody of characters found in Dr. Seuss books. Their names and surname rhyme (matching Dr. Seuss's signature style) and they resemble female Whos found in Whoville (the town featured in "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" and "Horton Hears a Who") due to their elongated faces, pale complexion, button noses and large bows on their hair. Although Dr. Seuss has remained a popular children's author, many viewers won't notice what Sherri and Terri are a parody of as Dr. Seuss's cartoon style is decidedly old-fashioned and not as recognizable in the 21st century compared to modern children's cartoons and book illustrations.

first of all dr. seuss is not obscure in the 21st century?? everyone knows who the grinch is??? second of all this is literally the only place i've seen claim that sherri and terri are supposed to be a seuss parody. the issue here isn't "dr. seuss is an obscure thing to parody" but rather "literally nobody thinks this". would be okay to remove on those grounds?

On Miraculous Ladybug S 04 E 06 Furious Fu:

• Spoiled by the Format: The fact that Su-Han manages to avoid being akumatized despite being the original target shouldn't be a surprise to anyone given that the episode is titled "Furious Fu".

This is obviously an example of Spoiler Title, but does that make it not an example of Spoiled by the Format?

(One might imagine that Spoiler Title is a subtrope of Spoiled by the Format, but it's a main-page trope while the latter is YMMV, so that doesn't work... it might be a TRS job.)

Edited by wingedcatgirl on May 5th 2023 at 11:42:40 AM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

Yes.

Calling it Spoiled by the Format um ... I think Spoiler Title is a sub-thingy even though it strikes me as incorrect, since Spoiled by the Format mostly discusses the length or shape of the work. If Spoiler Title is a subtrope, you want to put the example under the more specific trope anyway.

Disposable Woman has a large section for Kamen Rider about its former(?) tendency to kill off female Riders. But I'm not sure if the examples qualify, since a lot of the women are actual characters and not just used as an excuse for the men to angst (though I can't confirm every one; I've only seen about half the series listed). Even if the franchise has a noticeable pattern, the trope seems to be narrower than just "women die".

Can someone else review it and offer an opinion?