Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
She / Her
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I guess that section should at least have its ROCEJ stuff (like that entry) cut. If it stays, I'd also leave a commented-out warning mentioning ROCEJ in some way.
(she/her)
The Enforcer
So, apparently Food as Characterization exists, possibly rendering the Food Stereotype TLP index redundant. Given that, what do y'all think should be done with the subcultural stereotypes from Trademark Favorite Food Cleanup? Is launching Subcultural Food Stereotype separately viable?
they/them pronouns. Look at my Neocities.
Heroic Self-Deprecation, while it does touch on Morality and it's also Narrative, my primary concern would be that it's Too Common as well; "people make self deprecating jokes sometimes" is totally too Common. I'd crowner.
Re: Stock Parody Jokes, I'd say it should be NRLEP but the ones that are jokes about a creator's body of work should be moved to their respective mediums. After all, they really only apply to their body of work and not them themselves. The political ones are same kind of "yikes" as the political memes, so I'd still crowner.
Speaking of "yikes", Sore Loser. It's totally Too Common (I mean, who hasn't been a Sore Loser at least once in their lives), and it's incredibly Controversial especially when tied to politicians. Crowner with prejudice.
Edited by MissConduct on Dec 25th 2022 at 3:05:12 PM
The Draftsman of Doom
From Does Not Like Spam:
- Young children tend to have a distaste for bitter flavors in general, and more sensitive tastebuds into the bargain. Hence, the famous dislike of vegetables, particularly sulfurous ones like cabbage and spinach. People generally grow out of this as they get older, but by then many of us have built up a psychological dislike of said vegetables because we associate them with all those dinnertime arguments. It doesn't help that many people don't know how to cook them properly, either. It has also been suggested that this is an evolutionary adaption, which kicks in about the time children learn to walk unaided and lasts until they have the sense not to pick up anything they see and eat it...to prevent them killing themselves with poisonous fruit or vegetation.
However, this preference switches as we age. Most adults in their 20's and 30's will gradually find soft drinks and junk food to be "too sweet" and develop a new appreciation for bitter flavors (possibly including foods they might have hated before), such as tonic water, anchovies, coffee, olives, aged cheeses, dry wines/liquors, beer, and grapefruit. In extreme cases, these acquired tastes may become a new Trademark Favorite Food. (Too General) - Getting sick from an unusual food may provoke a particularly strong version of this called a taste aversion. In this case, it's not a case of "just not liking" a food; it's a physical reaction by the body to reject what it sees as a poison. Sometimes a taste aversion will develop if a person gets ill by coincidence (the person ingests an unusual food, then gets sick from something else) in a biological application of the False Cause fallacy. This is very common with alcoholic beverages. Many people will not go back to the drink that gave them a hangover. (Too General)
- President George H. W. Bush famously hated broccoli and once humorously declared at a news conference: "I do not like broccoli. And I haven't liked it since I was a little kid and my mother made me eat it. And I'm President of the United States and I'm not going to eat any more broccoli." Broccoli farmers sent 20,000 pounds of broccoli to the White House in protest and while Barbara Bush very graciously accepted the produce (as she personally loved it), President Bush simply doubled down and declared: "I still don't like broccoli".
- This guy really really hates vegetables. (ZCE, previously hidden.)
- Pythagoras (of Pythagorean Theorem fame) was known for his hatred of beans. To wit, Pythagoreanism was a religion based off his work and philosophy, and beans were verboten in said religion. Pythagoreans believed in reincarnation, and by their books beans were the main target for human souls to reincarnate into. Thus eating beans was, for them, something too close to cannibalism. Pythagoras had such an aversion to beans that as he was escaping from an angry mob, he came across a field of beans. Unwilling to trample across the field, he stood there and the mob killed him. (Might be valid if it can be proven.)
- People who grow up poor enough to eat certain foods constantly will often avoid them once they get enough money for a varied diet. That's the basis for the whole family of Poverty Food. (Too General)
- H. P. Lovecraft was allergic to seafood. This explains the cephalopoidic and piscine nature of a great many of his monsters. It probably didn't help that he lived in New England, where seafood can be a little hard to avoid. (Possible shoehorning.)
- Autistic people may have sensory processing issues, which can cause a strong aversion to certain types of taste or textures. (Too general.)
- Spam:
- The famous Monty Python sketch that provides the name for this trope was inspired by the fact that during World War II SPAM was pretty much the only meat that wasn't heavily rationed. The relative scarcity of proper meat coupled with the relative availability of Spam meant that Spam would be the only meat-like substance that most Brits had access to, and in the case of children born shortly before or during the war, the only meat product they had ever known. Rationing continued for over a decade after the war due to the impoverished state the UK found itself in once the war was over. Naturally, by the time rationing had come to an end, the people of the UK were so sick and tired of Spam that many hoped they would never see another can of the stuff again. Sales took a dive off a cliff once proper meat became readily available again, and people who actually liked it were considered weird. Yet it still remained cheap compared to other meats and would stick around on restaurant menus (especially those of the Greasy Spoon variety) and in school meals (where the grease-soaked spam fritter was long iconic, if much reviled) for years to come (spam fritters were standard school fare at practically every level into at least the 1970snote ). (Possibly too general.)
- Korea had the same problem during the Korean War (no meat to be had except for Spam), but had the opposite effect; to this day, it's the second-largest consumer of the canned-meat product, after Hawaii and Guam, which are a state and territory of the U.S., respectively. You can even buy luxury Spam in fancy boxes! In its native mainland U.S., it's just as reviled as it is in the U.K., due to so many returning GIs subsisting on it so much in the War and getting sick of it, so they were glad they would never have to eat it again on returning to civilian life. Post World War 2, Spam's reputation was not helped one bit by becoming associated with Deep South white trash people who were too poor to be able to afford "real" meat. (Inversion & general example.)
- Aversion to coriander leaves (also known as cilantro) may be due to a genetic cause. Variations in the OR6A2 gene, which is associated with olfactory reception, can lead to cilantro/coriander having a completely different and highly unpleasant taste for some people. For people with this variation, cilantro has a flavor that is most often described as "dish soap", and it can so completely permeate what it's used in that it overwhelms the other flavors in the dish. Oddly, it may not apply to the spice "coriander" which is the seed of the same plant. (General.)
- Yasuhiro Nightow, creator of Trigun and Blood Blockade Battlefront, abhors avocados. In an interview he has stated "I think avocados aren't fit for human consumption. If all the avocados were to disappear from the face of the earth right this very instant, it would not bother me in the least". (Potentially valid)
- Mao Zedong was noted to dislike soy sauce, owing to being squicked by the moldy beans during a high-school field trip. So, the soy sauce used in red-braised pork — his Trademark Favorite Food — is substituted with caramel. (Potentially Valid)
- The Undertaker (or at the very least the man portraying him, Mark Calaway) absolutely hates cucumber, to the point that he (according to Paul Bearer in a shoot) threw up bad because he found some cucumber in his drink. (Potentially valid.)
- Humorist Dave Barry can't stand lobster and shellfish and wrote about it in his column (Lobsters are 'giant insects' (specifically cockroaches with claws) and clams and and oysters are 'snot in a shell', for example). (Potentially Valid.)
- Gordon Ramsay hates Spam so much he learned to cook just so he wouldn't have to eat it again. The man hated a food so much it launched his career. He also will not touch airplane food. And he is on team anti-pineapple-on-pizza. (Potentially valid.)
- Moe Howard seriously did not like shellfish. When a sequence for A Pain In The Pullman called for all three Stooges to eat the shell of a Dungeness crab, Moe balked and couldn't bring himself to even lick the crab's claw. In the end, Preston Black arranged for the prop department to make a replica claw out of sugar for Moe to nibble on, but Moe was even squeamish about that (he even half-seriously suspected Black had merely had the prop department dip the actual claw in sugar to fool Moe). He finally did gnaw on the replica claw, but as he himself recounted, it was "gingerly". (Possibly Valid.)
- Anthony Ainley was said to have despised cheese of all kinds. (Needs proof.)
- Actress Jewel Staite is known to hate strawberries, which is the direct opposite of her Firefly character Kaylee and which had to make the well known Erotic Eating strawberry scene a challenge. (Possibly valid.)
- Madonna hates cheese, to the point that she never even had pizza before until she appeared on The Late Show with David Letterman and he offered her a (cheese-free) slice of it for the first time. (Possibly valid.)
Now, there are valid examples of this, but I personally believe it would be an excercise in futility to document the least favorite foods and beverages of even 1% of the world's population, plus I noticed many generalizations.
If we do cut the RL section, I want to allow for actual biases to be played up as part of performance personas, such as a food reviewer playing up their distaste for a given food when they have to eat it for the audience's entertainment.
Thoughts?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I'd agree with that assessment.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 25th 2022 at 5:13:18 AM
Rawr.
I'd say Does Not Like Spam is Too Common IRL for examples to be meaningful - everyone has a least favorite food.
If someone's playing it up for the camera, it should probably be in one of the media sections (like if a TV celeb chef goes on about how much they hate a certain food it should go in the TV section, even if the hatred comes from a real place).
I also went ahead and axed some ROCEJ violations off The Guards Must Be Crazy -
- When infamous wealthy pedophile and trafficker Jeffrey Epstein was imprisoned, he was supposed to get checked on twice an hour. His guards, however, were alarmingly inattentive, despite Epstein having been on suicide watch after a supposed attempt a few weeks ago. It turned out they had falsified at least seventy-five checks on the guy, and didn't discover that Epstein had died until they delivered his breakfast in the morning. This was despite his cell being only about fifteen feet away from their workstation. Pretty much the only thing everyone can agree on is that these guards were either phenomenally stupid or being paid off.
- The Transport Security Administration of America is fairly infamous for their shoddy work, with undercover investigators discovering that TSA agents failed to find hidden weapons or contraband roughly 96% of the time. They're often considered the most famous modern example of "security theater": that is, security measures that reassure civilians that the government is doing something and therefore they must be safe, but don't actually work all that well for taking down criminals. It's also a general example.
- Adam Savage of Mythbusters fame has a story about how he forgot 12 inch razor blades in his luggage and they didn't catch them. But they made sure to grope his genitals.
- In Jeff Dunham's comedy special "Controlled Chaos," Achmed goes epically off the rails when his leg falls off the platform. His Ho Yay with Marnel, the stage hand does not help. This one I think is a result of the trope having too generic a name. There's no TTRPGS, it just mentions going "off the rails".
Achmed Jr.: He's kinky too!Achmed Sr.: SHUT UP!
- Forum Mafia is a fairly common Play-by-Post forum game. There have been various modifications, one allowed players to create their own roles. This has resulted in absolute madness which can be seen here. Day 2 literally ends after one post. The player in question has his ability disabled by another, player created ability. Bear in mind if it wasn't there, one player could lynch absolutely everyone day after day. Anecdotal.
- The whole point of the Film Reroll involves playing through movies as if they were RPG's. They then go off the rails and make a whole new movie. This one is technically valid so I moved it up to the Podcasts section, although it certainly needs a rewrite by someone familiar with the series.
- To bring attention to the issue, the contestants of the 2017 Miss Peru beauty pageant instead of mentioning their body sizes, listed a (rather depressing) fact/statistic about the rate of domestic violence in their country. Not this trope at all.
Edited by MissConduct on Dec 25th 2022 at 6:29:30 AM
Should we be calling real people crazy? We don't call them villains or monsters.
The Draftsman of Doom
Looking over it, your edits seem fine to me. I too am a bit iffy on the lower half, mostly because there is little verifiability. I would probably let them stand if push comes to shove though.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
Time Abyss is about characters who have been alive and conscious for a really long time, but most of the real life examples are about long spans of time, even if there's no-one around to observe them. Should they be cut?
So while it's not actually a Real Life section, I noticed reading Spiritual Antithesis that the "Other" folder, at the bottom, has a long list of examples describing decade nostalgia cycles according to a formula that always ends in a spoilered section talking about negative aspects of that decade that are ignored. A lot of these seem kind of... iffy and ROCEJ-adjacent. I wanted to solicit some other opinions on whether it's just me, though.
Agreed that none of those are actual examples of the trope. The entire folder can be cut as misuse.
Yes, the nostalgia decades entry looks almost entirely to be natter shoehorned in, I'd agree with a cut.
Cut and indexed Genius Cripple, cutlisted the RL page for Large Ham. Heatwave indexed on KRLE page.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
The Draftsman of Doom
Updated Does Not Like Spam to remove general examples and other questionable stuff.
Rawr.
We currently have two tropes under discussion for crowner:
- Heroic Self-Deprecation - Narrative, real life doesn't have heroes and villains
- Stock Parody Jokes - Gossip & Stereotypes, as by definition we are applying stereotypes to real people.
It's been over 24 hours and there seems to be consensus, I'll add them shortly unless someone has objections, or would like to propose a cleanup.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Both of those look good.
Added both to crowner and advertised in ATT.
Note that this brings the crowner to fifteen items, so no more crowner entries until the current ones clear in a week.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Anyone else wanna vote on Sore Loser?
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
The Draftsman of Doom
I looked over Sore Loser, the Trump example needs to go on ROCEJ grounds, and there are a bunch of general examples and natter that can be cleared up, but otherwise it seems mostly factual. If we're documenting how people reacted to a loss (and not making stuff up), it should be fine.
But I'm open to hearing other people's opinion.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
My logic behind calling Sore Loser Too Controversial is that calling someone a "Sore Loser" is kinda loaded. While yes it certainly happens, and I wouldn't really call it a "Morality Trope" per se, but there's an understanding in the trope's usage that says that a Sore Loser is deserving of scorn.
There's no doubt in my mind that the Trump example will get added back if we don't NRLEP the trope, because yes, on an objective level he was acting like a Sore Loser, but we don't really want to be starting political debates or posting polemics on main trope pages. But so long as this stuff's in the news, unless the trope gets NRLEP'd then I think people are going to ask where the Trump example is, and will probably re-add it.
And I'll stand by my calling it Too Common too. I'm sure anyone who's played a video game with online multiplayer will know. Rage Quit is NRLEP for the same reason.
Rage Quit seems close enough to Sore Loser that the latter could probably go NRLEA as well, if only for consistency's sake.
Edited by techno156 on Dec 28th 2022 at 1:52:08 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
If I had to keep track of every time people handled defeat disgracefully, I'd probably lose patience. Just a thought.
Rawr.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
It being Too Common is another good reason to remove it.
Like, just as a hypothetical, non-political example, say a contestant from Reality Show X is voted off and gives a calm, closing speech about why they believed they did not deserve to be voted off. One viewer who dislikes this contestant adds an entry for them on the Real Life section, and then another troper removes them on the grounds that their speech was calm and rational rather than raving. But the first troper says that the fact that they didn’t “accept” their loss at all means they’re this. Then another troper who is a huge fan of the contestant in question comes in and argues their own side, and then it turns into a big ugly Edit War.
Edited by MasterN on Dec 28th 2022 at 7:19:27 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
Bay and Shyamalan are at least creators and their parodies are parodying media, so it at least feels on brand. Parodying politicians, on the other hand, feels about as dodgy as the Memes page for Politics was.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.