The correct answer to "If you're such a big fan, then in what issue of Aquaman did we learn the name of Aquaman's father?" is "Fuck you" — Arthur, Prince of the Sea, belongs to everyone."
No True Scotsman is an intentional logical fallacy
which involves the act of setting up standards for a particular scenario, then redefining those same standards in order to exclude a particular outcome
The Trope Namer
and prime example of this sort of behavior is a hypothetical scenario (first told by British philosopher Antony Flew in his 1975 book Thinking About Thinking
) in which a Scotsman reads about a horrible crime in the newspaper that takes place in the English town of Brighton and smugly thinks to himself, "No Scotsman
would ever do such a thing." Something much worse happens in nearby Aberdeen and is reported on the next day. Rather than admit that he's wrong, he instead thinks, "No true
Scotsman would ever do such a thing." In this case, he is going from "someone who lives in Scotland" to "someone that meets my standard of Scottish behavior."
A similar way of illustrating the point:
Angus: No Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge!
Bonnie: But my uncle Scotty MacScotscot does just that!
Angus: Weel, then he's no' a true Scotsman.
This is very common within subcultures. Works or creators are discredited as not part of the genre due to not living up to arbitrary standards (or just being popular
). Often this is followed by examples of what are considered real examples of the genre (see also Pretender Diss
). By extension, you aren't considered a real fan of the genre if you don't know of these works. Sometimes, when dealing with a Dead Horse Genre
or another sufficiently ghettoized field
, the fallacy is used to try and distance a well-liked entry from it.
In real life, it's most commonly found in arguments about politics, race, nationality
, or religion, usually when it comes to perceived stereotypes that something negative
"can only be done" in a specific region or group of people (especially The Rival
) and not
the accuser's own group; with of course ignoring the fact that it can.
Essentially a form of Begging The Question
, in that, to accept the argument that No True Scotsman would do X, one must accept that the definition of "True Scotsman" includes "would not do X."
Tropes which rely on, or include this fallacy:
Looks like this fallacy but is not:
- If the group being referred to has clearly-defined or generally-accepted membership standards that exclude the counter-example. For instance if a statement is made about "Eagle Scouts", and a rebuttal is offered concerning "Boy Scouts", pointing out that "Not all Boy Scouts are Eagle Scouts" is not No True Scotsman.
- If the group being referred to has specific, objective guidelines of behavior as a member of said group. "No clean cop would take a bribe" is not fallacious, because a clean cop, by definition, doesn't take bribes. Similarly, if a religion has as two of its main precepts, "Do not drink alcohol on Friday" and "Believe that specific Book Y is absolutely true," then someone who drinks on Fridays and denies Book Y isn't really part of it.
- If the action axiomatically disqualifies one from inclusion in the group. For example, "No right-handed person predominantly uses their left hand" is not fallacious because right-handed people are defined as those who predominantly use their right hand. Someone who is calling themselves "right-handed" but predominantly uses their left hand either isn't telling the truth or doesn't understand the distinction between "right-handed" and "left-handed" people.
- If the term is redefined because it is susceptible to multiple interpretations, and there was legitimate confusion about which was being used. This would be sloppy, but not necessarily fallacious. It could be clarified by observing, "You Keep Using That Word..."
Related to Moving the Goalposts
, where the definition isn't changed, but the standards for accepting a counter-argument are made increasingly more rigorous.
Not related to Violent Glaswegian
, Brave Scot
, The Scottish Trope
, that Shcottish actor
, or Fake Scot
A form of Selective Obliviousness
. Straw Affiliation
is a related form of this. Stop Being Stereotypical
and Not So Different
are often invoked when these situations occur. The inverse is Hitler Ate Sugar
, when someone tries to argue that all True Scotsmen are evil because of one bad apple.
In regards to Real Life
examples, what may be considered as "a true/not a true (whatever)" often relies on personal interpretation which can result in heated arguments, so let's not go there.
It's perhaps also worth mentioning that, among those who wear the kilt
, a "True Scotsman" is the humorous term for someone who is confident enough to go commando
. So if someone asks "Are you a true Scotsman," it might not be this fallacy— they may just be wondering about your undergarments.
Anime & Manga
- Kazemakase Tsukikage Ran: The samurai in the 11th episode; the only 'true' samurai in their opinion are samurai that think like them. They talk about honor in one scene, for instance, they refuse to sneak attack and decide on a time and place of neutral favor. Then they attack him three to one, even when he reveals himself to be unarmed. Everyone who doesn't act like this is a "coward" or a "maggot".
- In One Piece, there's a great deal of Fantastic Racism between humanity and fishmen. Arlong split off from the Sun Pirates and formed his own crew because their leader Jinbe went and became a privateer for the human-ruled World Government to help patch things up, but the worst case are the New Fishman Pirates. Their leaders hate humans to the extent that they'll kill any fishmen or merfolk who seek peace with humans. Hody Jones, leader of the pirates, is even willing to have all of Fishman Island destroyed than have fishmen and humans understand each other, all out of Irrational Hatred.
- Superboy Prime doesn't think Conner Kent is the real Superboy in Infinite Crisis due to his lack of confidence in himself and darker personality. In fact, Earth-2 Superman believes the same about the entirety of the concurrent DC Universe, insisting that everything about it is inferior and corrupt, and therefore unworthy of being called the "real" Earth, until he's asked if that's the case with Dick Grayson, and has to admit that no, it isn't.
- In My Immortal, Ebony and friends are obsessed with which characters are "real goffs" and which are just "tryin 2 be goffik". Hagrid, or rather "Hargrid", is reclassified repeatedly, always for nonsensical, arbitrary reasons. How a person becomes a "real goff" never is explained (among a lot of other things), with the closest anyone can guess is that you're born a goff.
- Dead or Alive 4: The Devil Factor: Ayane spitefully tells Kasumi that, given her compassionate nature and reluctance to kill, she could never hope to be a real ninja.
- In Equestria: A History Revealed, the narrator thinks she's the only legitimate historical essay writer because she's the only one brave enough to tell the "truth", and dismisses all other works of real historians as false. She even calls herself the one true historian in Equestria at one point.
- In Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, much like the original movies, there's the Ape Shall Not Kill Ape rule, which Koba uses to taunt Caesar at the end. Caesar responded by declaring that he was no ape. Given how Koba already violated that rule by trying to assassinate Caesar and murdering Ash, this trope holds some real weight for once.
- Jack Reacher has one of the few rational examples of the trope; the Army goes to great expense and effort to train snipers in such a way that Barr shouldn't have left any of the Orgy of Evidence found after the killing spree he supposedly committed.note
- If you like Andrew Garfield's performance as Peter Parker, then you're not a real Spider-Man fan. Actually, wait, it's if you like Tobey Maguire's portrayal of Peter Parker you're not a real Spider-Man fan. And if you don't want Donald Glover to be the next Spider-Man on film, you unquestionably are not a real Spider-Man fan.
- In A Song of Ice and Fire:
- Sansa maintains her belief in a world of Knights in Shining Armor, despite repeatedly confronting evidence that many knights are just thugs with swords, by declaring that any knight who doesn't live up to her expectations and their vows to protect the innocent is obviously "no true knight." Her behaviour fits in with the "objective guidelines of behavior" exception since, as noted, to become a knight you have to make certain vows to protect the innocent, fight with honor, protect women etc. It might be more accurate to say that "true knights" are actually in the minority in the setting. Thus, she seems to be sticking to this even after acquiring Jade-Colored Glasses by recognizing that true knights, if they exist at all, are very rare.
- In "The Hedge Knight" Dunk invokes this when seeking a sixth man to fight by his side in his Trial of Seven. When an entire stand of knights refuse to acknowledge the rightness of his cause, he shouts "Are there no true knights among you?" Then the Prince of Dragonstone himself rides out to fight alongside him, citing that Dunk was the one who behaved "as all knights should".
- The Halkans in the Star Trek Novel Verse are total pacifists, who insist that there is no violence of any kind in their hearts. As a result of this, anyone capable of violence cannot be truly Halkan, and will be regarded as a non-person.
- Matters of ethnicity are discussed in George MacDonald Fraser's McAuslan trilogy of short stories. Author Avatar Dand McNeill discusses the agonies the Gordon Highlanders went through when accepting a draft of soldiers from the Liverpool Scottish—sons and grandsons of Scotsmen who'd settled in Liverpool but who had the accent of Merseyside rather than Clydeside. One of whom was black, played the bagpipes, and applied to join the Regimental Band. The question was, "can a black-skinned Scouser be said to qualify as Scottish?" closely followed by "What's it going to look like?"
- Dand also describes the Pipe-Sergeant in these terms:
If he hadn't been such a decent wee man, he'd undoubtedly have been a professional Scotsman of the most offensive type.
- The BFG: The other giants essentially disown the BFG for not eating humans, though neither party does anything to patch the ties. The climax of the film makes it clear that they don't even consider him a giant.
Fleshlumpeater: You is not giant! You is more like...human bean!
- Excessive use of this in the 2008 US Presidential campaign led to The Daily Show producing a handy test: "Are You A Real American?"
- The May 5, 2014 segment showed how Republicans running against other Republicans all declare the opponent to be "not a true conservative" by showcasing all the potential definitions thereof and how they are applied in a South Carolina race.
- In an episode of Desmond's, Desmond's son is failed on an essay about black British youth, because his teacher thinks it reflects a middle-class background which isn't typical of urban culture. Or as his sister puts it "They're saying he's not black enough!"
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine has Gul Dukat. After the Klingons attacked, the new civilian government pressed for a diplomatic solution. This flew in the face of his pride, so he waged a one-ship war on the Klingons and then forged an alliance with the Dominion. He says the following to Major Kira:
Dukat: What Cardassians? Don't you see, Major? They're paralyzed. They're beaten and defeated. I am the only Cardassian left, and if no one else will stand against the Klingons, I will.
- And then there is Sirella, Martok's wife, who Jadzia Dax has to please before she can marry Worf. During the reading of ceremonial reading of The Chronicle, a history of the Martok family's unbroken (until now, ahem) bloodline, Jadzia sprinkles in her own extracurricular research, including: a positive spin on an Oliver Cromwell-type figure in Klingon history, the revelation that Sirella's claim to nobility is false, and that her mother-in-law's ancestor was not the Princess but a concubine who lived out of the royal stables.
Sirella: You are STRAYING FROM THE SAGA!!
- On The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, Will often mocks Carlton for not being black enough.
Carlton: Wait 'till we come downstairs in these tuxes. People may not think we're twins, but I'll bet they'll think we're brothers.
Will: You know, I don't think you'll have to worry about anybody mistaking you for a brother.
- Used a bit more seriously in the episode "Blood is Thicker Than Mud", where Will and Carlton try to join an all-black fraternity. Although they're both hazed, Carlton's is more severe than Will's, and even after he endures everything they put him through, the Pledgemaster still refuses to let Carlton join because he thinks he's a "sellout". Will quits in disgust when he finds out, and after they return home and tell Uncle Phil and Aunt Vivian what happened, Phil laments: "When are we going to stop doing this to each other?"
- One sketch on Key And Peele is about a Camp Gay man who calls homophobia on a co-worker who's complaining about his loud sexual 'music', and the Camp Gay starts bringing up all his phallic paraphernalia as well, even showing off a naughty selfie to intimidate (or maybe turn?) the man. Turns out the real reason is because the co-worker is Straight Gay.
"Oh, I get it: I'm not persecuted, I'm just an asshole
- Portia Perez says that if you don't recognize her, then you aren't a real pro wrestling fan.
- The game Metal Wolf Chaos features propaganda news reports that define a true American as "anyone who supports the idea of having the families and friends of terrorist sympathisers murdered in the streets" rather than "anyone who is a citizen or long-standing resident of America".
- In Team Fortress 2, if an Engineer Dominates another Engineer, one possible response is "A real Texan would've dodged that".
- Rozalin from Disgaea 2: Cursed Memories loves her father, Overlord Zenon. Until she actually meets him in person, and discovers he's actually kind of a jerk who seems to care for her only as a decorative object to be 'kept safe' in a castle isolated from the outside world. She immediately deduces that he can't be the real Overlord Zenon and is only a fake. She's actually right, but her reasoning that no true Overlord Zenon is a petty jerk had nothing to do with it — the real Overlord Zenon is much worse. Or at least used to be, until reincarnating as Rozalin.
- In The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, there's no love lost between the Stormcloaks and their fellow Nords who fight on behalf of the Empire. Apparently, you can't be a "true son/daughter of Skyrim" unless you're one of Ulfric's cronies.
- On the other hand, Legate Rikke argues that "Nords have never been fair weather friends" implying that No True Nord would desert their Imperial allies in their hour of greatest need.
- In the Borderlands 2 DLC Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep, Lilith is incredibly reluctant to let Mr. Torgue join in on their game of Bunkers and Badasses because he is a muscular guy, so she believes he's not a true geek and only wants to play because being geeky is "trendy" now. It's invoked again moments later when Tina asks him "Three Geeky Questions". Torgue gets the first two right, but the third has an Unexpectedly Obscure Answer, and he doesn't know. Therefore, according to Lilith, Torgue isn't really into nerd culture.
- In Dragon Age: Origins Sten believes in both things and people having an essential nature they are born with and you can't change. For example, if you are born to a merchant clan but become a blacksmith, you are never a blacksmith. You are, forever, a merchant trying to be a blacksmith. If your character is female, Sten comments that you seem to be both a woman and a soldier but this is impossible, you must be either a woman or a soldier. His conclusion is that you aren't a woman, even though you clearly look like one. If the PC is male he'll have this conversation with Liliana.
- This gets weird in Dragon Age II DLC, when you meet Tallis, who is both a woman and a warrior and follows the same religion/philosophy that Sten did. This is because the Qun classifies her (like all official assassins) as a priest rather than a warrior.
- Dragon Age: Inquisition introduces yet another twist. Iron Bull explains that if a person of one gender can best serve society in a role of the other, they're called "Aqun-Athlok", or transgender. So, for example, if a child the tamassrans think is female shows proficiency at fighting, but isn't good enough at lying to be made a spy like Tallis, everyone acknowledges that the midwife made a mistake in saying they were a girl, the child is put in the military, and from then on is expected to look and act exactly like all the other men, because he is a man. Hence Sten's confusion: the female Warden was clearly a warrior and therefore, a man, but looked and acted like a woman.
- In World of Warcraft there are five Horde factions: the playable Horde, which includes all Horde races and not just the orcs like the other examples; the Dark Horde, who are The Remnant of the Warcraft II Horde who invaded Azeroth and are based mostly in Blackrock Mountain and Burning Steppes; the Fel Horde, the still demon-corrupted remnant of the Warcraft II expansion Horde in Outland, mostly alligned with Illidan; and Garrosh Hellscream's True Horde, which is the orc supremacist faction in the Horde civil war during the fourth expansion, all of them which claim to be the rightful Horde excluding the others. The fifth one is the Iron Horde in the fifth expansion, but since that story involves time traveling, their claim of being the rightful Horde was not inaccurate at first.
- In the Dwarf Fortress community, experienced players often try to make Difficult but Awesome solutions to otherwise mundane problems. When asked why they don't use an easier solution, the usual response is, "It's not dwarven enough."
- Played, strangely, for warm fuzzyness in Gunnerkrigg Court, by Jack hinting to Annie she overdid the "high standards for herself" part a little bit and needs to relax.