Complaining: Fandom Heresy

This seems to be the exact same thing as what Fandom-Enraging Misconception was misused for back when it was called Fandom Berserk Button, but isn't Flame Bait. Many examples on YMMV pages attract similar "Do not tell X to fandom" ZCEs that would be found under a Berserk Button entry.

Either make this Flame Bait or limit to In-Universe Examples Only.

Edited by ccorb on Oct 25th 2020 at 8:04:31 AM

Since the backlog has been steadily decreasing, I'll open this. Wick check looks good, by the way.

I'll second making it Flame Bait.

Are there enough In-Universe examples to make it worthwhile? Google only shows 4 examples.

Edited by SeptimusHeap on Oct 17th 2020 at 11:28:25 AM

I personally think that potentially making this what Fandom Berserk Button used to be would be worthwhile. I admittedly had to nothing to say with Fandom-Enraging Misconception since it's a different thing entirely, with misconceptions, rather than Fandom Heresy which could be about opinions. I'd say a page that says what to not say in a fandom is useful to not get harassment/start flame wars and there's probably nothing Flame Bait level about those reactions, I don't think anyone would complain that people say "don't say this around them".

Edited by Piterpicher on Oct 17th 2020 at 12:38:45 PM

I counted 10 In-Universe instances (examples or potholes) in my wick check, and there may be more.

I read the TRS thread that renamed and cleaned Fandom-Enraging Misconception, and there was talk of moving the misuse to Darth Wiki. This would maybe work for Fandom Heresy, but I'm not sure.

Edited by ccorb on Oct 17th 2020 at 7:56:57 AM

I support making it Flame Bait. Luckily, this one has a rather small 128 wicks.

Make it Flame Bait.

Since it's already listed under No On-Page Examples, it would have to be moved to Definition-Only Pages if it's made Flame Bait. That's what was done with Internet Backdraft (another former no on-page examples page).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 17th 2020 at 10:20:47 AM

Flame Bait it.

I think Piter Picher might have a good idea.

Let's see what these In-Universe examples are.

From my wick check:

• Audience Participation Song: KISS is a band based around theatrical shows, pretty much all their songs are written for this. It's parodied in Family Guy, where the singer holds the mic out to Lois for the chorus of "Rock and Roll All Nite"... and she gets the line horribly wrong. Sinkhole in bold, not sure if it fits.
  Gene Simmons: I... wanna rock & roll all night! (holds the mic in front of Lois' face)
  Lois: And have a wonderful... time.
• Characters.Grrl Power Archon: Peggy realized that she pushed Sydney too far when Sydney yelled out "Fuck BATMAN!" '''Maybe it's saying that Peggy is a Batman fan?"
• Characters.Mario Party Netplay: Greatly enjoys bad Mario Parties like 5, 7, and any team game.
• LetsPlay.Super Gaming Bros: Often Elliot will commit some sort of Fandom Heresyinvoked involving an otherwise popular work, which will lead Matt to declare "you're out of the family!
• Funny.El Goonish Shive: Shortly after, Grace reveals a Fandom Heresy - she's never seen any of the Star Wars movies.
• TheNostalgiaCritic.Tropes D To G:
  • Invoked during TMNT with the Running Gag of putting up captions inducing nerd rage (like “Greedo shot first”) to distract people from getting too angry at when they actually have positive stuff to say about the movie.
  • Weaponized in “The Best Avatar Episodes”, as his power is meta, and he tells the comments that Joss Whedon is overrated just so he can have more ammo.
• WebVideo.Analyst Bronies React: In-Universe, Midnight Sonata gets a booing crowd when she criticizes Fluttershy.
• Webcomic.Something Positive: Mike defends Joel Schumacher over The Lost Boys, and has a crisis of conscience over it.
• YMMV.Drake: Discussed in "Fear", with "Don't take this the wrong way but/I never cried when Pac died/ But I probably will when Hov does". Later on he explained that it wasn't meant to be a diss, but that he was 9 when Tupac died and didn't really understand it.
• YMMV.The Late Show With Stephen Colbert: The August 9, 2017 show saw Colbert calling the Doctor "Doctor Who" in an interview with David Tennant regarding his time on the show and opinions about the incoming Thirteenth Doctor Jodie Whittaker, a co-star on Broadchurch, which was airing its penultimate episode that night on BBC and BBC America and about to end its run the following week. "You were the Tenth Doctor Who". What makes it especially egregious is Tennant himself didn't try to correct him. Not even the actor who played the Doctor knows if it's really incorrect to call the character "Doctor Who". ^note Granted, the show itself has flip-flopped on this in their credits over the decades. Thankfully he'd learned his lesson by the time Jodie Whittaker appeared on the show. Overly long, and more complaining about calling The Doctor "Doctor Who".
• YMMV.Radical Bromance: Alex stating he likes Mega Man 8 the most out of all classic Mega Man games.

Not all of these fit the trope 100 percent.

Could you add more comments to your wick check?

I think we're overdue for a crowner, but whether there would be any options other than making it Flame Bait would depend on if there are enough in-universe examples to make making it IUEO a viable option. I suppose we could add a "Make In-Universe Examples Only if there are enough in-universe wicks" option.

Edit: Moving it to Darth Wiki could also be an option (making it Flame Bait and moving it to Darth Wiki wouldn't be mutually exclusive; only making it IUEO would be mutually exclusive with other options); I just saw that that was suggested previously.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 1st 2020 at 7:37:02 AM

Here's the crowner.

Before seriously consider making it Flame Bait, we should ask if it's really necessary. How much flaming has this actually provoked?

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Nov 1st 2020 at 8:02:17 AM

It's because the very definition of this item makes it similar to a "Fandom Berserk Button" example (don't ship these two characters, don't say you like this sequel, or the fandom will yell at you like crazy). That item was renamed Fandom-Enraging Misconception and cleaned up two years ago through this TRS thread because of this extreme subjectivity.

The definition of this is "These are things that the majority of a fandom wholly agrees with, and if a fan objects, they will get flamed."

Edited by ccorb on Nov 1st 2020 at 11:04:02 AM

Well, here's the description for Flame Bait:

Unless this has started a disproportionate number of flame wars, I don't think adding it to Flame Bait is at all an appropriate answer.

Yeah, if this is a volatile subject, then the first thing we should try is IUEO. Flame Bait is for things even worse than that.

Honestly, I think Flame Bait might've undergone Trope Decay, but that's a topic for another day.

And that's assuming this is a volatile subject. My understanding is that the problem is ZCEs, not people getting into flame wars.

Forgot to note that the crowner's hooked.

I'm torn. On the one hand, it's worth mentioning hot-button issues for fandoms. But on the other hand, we have tropes like Broken Base and Sacred Cow that cover "fandom gets really heated over X opinion" in more specific ways. This YMMV-thing seems to lend itself to either complaining about the show or complaining about fans. So I'm leaning towards some sort of change - maybe the IUEO change since it's a behavior media about fans does reference a lot.

Not a fan of pushing it to Darth Wiki as putting a YMMV-thing that heavily involves judging the fans into a place with much lesser restrictions on complaining sounds like a recipe for more personal attacks.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 1st 2020 at 1:36:48 PM

Both of those are distinct concepts, I believe. Sacred Cow refers to something with such a stellar reputation that attacking it generally doesn't go over well, and Broken Base is about polarized opinions among the fans. And AFAIK, it's not really being used for complaining right now.

I question this open-ended crowner option: "Redefine to incorporate former Fandom-Enraging Misconception misuse when it was still known as "Fandom Berserk Button" (not necessarily mutually exclusive with other options)"

We cannot have an open ended crowner option like this one.

Added banner to the page.

How exactly is that "open-ended"? And are there better ways it could be worded?