Is this an example?

oh wow this went better than I expected- ^{semi-related tangent}  yeah I never really understood the whole “headcanoning femboys as transfem is saying that men being feminine is bad” argument. where is the correlation

also yeah, i was thinking of Non Troper. i’d actually ran into them on Twitter, and thought that they were someone else who shared the transfem Hideri headcanon… well, before all of this. ^{another semi-related tangent} (also speaking of twitter someone had posted evidence that hideri calling herself a boy was a mistranslation of her being a Bokukko, but i only have the pictures from that and the person who posted it is long gone, so I’m assuming it doesn’t really count anymore)

but anyway, does the example look good enough or is there anything else that needs to be added?

Edited by worldwidewoomy on Mar 19th 2022 at 1:54:04 PM

I mean, it's a YMMV trope, isn't it? So it's fine to include even if it's objectively wrong as long as enough of the audience feels that way.

alright! it’s been added, thanks!

Here's another from Monochrome Casting:

• Charmed zig-zagged this. The only regulars to appear in every season were the Halliwell sisters, so of course they were white. The only non-white series regular was Darryl, and even he got Put on a Bus in the last season (and he missed the most episodes of any other regular). Despite Asians being the second most prominent demographic in San Francisco, only three episodes in eight seasons focus on Asian characters (and each involves a trip to Chinatown to 'justify' it). Demons, co-workers, innocents of the week and other supporting characters could be any race however (the Big Bad of Season 7 was played by Oded Fehr, and the same season had the Avatars, who were a multiracial group). But notably for a show set in San Francisco, gay characters only ever show up in occasional minor roles - and only one episode in the whole series featured a lesbian couple.

One of the reasons I dislike Zig-Zagging Trope is that it allows things like this. I'm not sure if this even counts as an example. Thoughts?

Not sure this example from Alan Smithee counts as an example. I don't know the context behind it, but don't want to cut it if it's valid. This is the example:

• Rough Draft Studios uses the name "Orange" when doing work for anime series due to issues with the Korean unit's stock holders.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Mar 19th 2022 at 11:56:20 AM

Alan Smithee is for when a creator disowns their work (by pulling their name off of it) for any number of reason, most commonly some form of Executive Meddling. This sounds like (I say sounds because the example context is mighty thin) they change their name on certain products due to legal issues, which I think is a whole other thing.

Would that fit better under Screwed by the Lawyers?

In One Piece, Koby is stated to be a young boy. In the live-action version, he will be played by non-binary actor Morgan Davies. Does that count as a Cross-Cast Role?

No, that's more for legal issues that actively ruin a work. This just seems more like a Pen Name, where the creator chooses to release certain works under a different name for reasons ..

That is actually a good question, and one I feel may need a larger consensus than just this thread.

Also, gonna bump my query so it doesn't get buried.

When the question of Crosscast Role came up for Elliot Page’s role in The Umbrella Academy (2019) ( he plays a woman and transitioned in between seasons) the answer was “wait until we actually know more about what they’re going to do with the character”. The same would apply here; we don’t know that Gender Flip or Adaptational Gender Identity won’t apply to the live-action.

Re: Monochrome Casting, sounds like they had a Token Minority in the main cast, so I’d say probably not.

Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 19th 2022 at 10:36:03 AM

It says on WesternAnimation.Turning Red under Deliberate Values Dissonance "Ming becomes worried that Mei doesn't have menstrual pads at school and goes to deliver them. Most 2020s schools have a nurse that can provide a pad to a student having an emergency. She also doesn't get in trouble for assaulting and battering (she did kick him) the security guard at the school, whereas in 2022 she would have been either escorted off campus with prejudice or arrested." Is the latter accurate? Was that treated less seriously back then?

It's worded a little weird, but it seems to be saying that in the past schools were okay with a parent assaulting a security guard?? Which obviously isn't true, a parent assaulting security back then and now would be a big deal (source: was a student back in the 90s when they first started putting security guards in schools).

Also not sure if any part of it is accurate, I would have thought even back then a school nurse would have had at least rudimentary stuff for girls, though maybe not (the catholic school i attended actively discouraged us guys from learning anything about menstruation).

In addition, it may not be about values specifically and being worried about them not being available doesn't mean they aren't and some people might not know.

It never explicitly says that Mei's school doesn't provide pads. I think the subtext is that Ming brings the pads to school as an excuse to keep an eye on Mei as she's worried about Mei's puberty.

So it basically sounds like garden variety complaining/nitpicking that was shoehorned into Deliberate Values Dissonance. I would agree with just cutting the whole example as written.

The trope page Everythings Better With Llamas seemingly has loads of problems. Best I can tell, the trope is supposed to involve examples of llamas being used in a humorous or endearing manner — but as one might guess, there seem to be several examples where a llama just appears. Am confirming that:

-that's indeed the focus of this trope.

-it's okay to go in and clean the page up accordingly.

Thanks!

Edited by BoltDMC on Mar 20th 2022 at 8:09:16 AM

Under Mei Lee's section on the Turning Red character page, there's an entry for "Break the Haughty". Does that really fit? "Break the Haughty" to me carries an implication that the character deserves what happens to them, or really needs to be taught a very harsh lesson about life. As the trope entry says, it's most often used with a villain or at least a strong anti-hero character.

Mei's experiences sound a lot more like "Break the Cutie" to me. She starts out a cute, confident girl who completely believes she's in full control of herself and her life. Then in short order she gets horribly embarrassed by her mother twice, discovers the red panda transformation, discovers she has no control at all over the red panda transformation, has to run home across town in broad daylight in her panda form, and discovers her trusted parents knew about the red panda and didn't tell her. Finally, she's sentenced to solitary confinement for a month, living in an empty bedroom cut off from friends, school, and everything she enjoyed about life. She certainly needed a dose of humility, but nothing like what actually happens to her.

The description is bad but looks like the trope is supposed to be "llamas are funny". I think it's fine to comment out anything that's just "a llama was in this work".

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 20th 2022 at 11:11:21 AM

She no haughty. Unless you believe a person who confidence is haughty. I change it to Break the Cutie.

x4 While this isn't ZCE or TRS thread, but it may have the same issues that got Everythings Better With Monkeys got disambig'ed. I suggest looking at other animals snowclones in Garnishing the Story for context cleaning if you're interested.

This example from Trivia.Judy 2019 is misuse right? I'm fairly certain you need more than a gap of two years between character and actress to qualify:

• Dawson Casting: Judy Garland was 46 in 1968. Renée Zellweger was 48 during production.

Correct, a two year gap between actor and role is not notable. Also, Dawson Casting is primarily about adults playing high school age kids, so doubly wrong.

Thanks — I'll do that.

Thanks for the suggestion. That's a more intense level of cleanup than I want to get into, though.

Remember my discussion on Acceptable Targets on the Arrowverse page. I found identical ones on the YMMV.Arrow page.

• Acceptable Targets:
  • On a meta-level, Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle. Arrow went downhill ever since they took over as showrunners, and criticizing them for their lackluster (and controversial) decisions and writing is what majority of the fans enjoy doing despite their differing opinions over the show's characters.
  • Also on a meta-level, Felicity Smoak. Due to the infamous ending of Crisis on Earth-X, she alienated many fans to the point of almost losing all goodwill. Unlike Guggenheim and Mericle, this does NOT extend to Emily Bett Rickards. In fact, many of the Felicity-haters actually pity Emily for having to deal with such terrible writing, and view her as another victim of the show's change in direction.
  • Martin Shkreli appears to be one given as how the reason Oliver when after Justin Claybourne (raising the price of a drug called Dycloseral from $10 to $1,000 per pill) was near exact as Shkreli's infamous decision to raise the price of Daraprim from $13.5 to $750 per pill. Clayboure also turned out to have plans to spread more viruses and would have if Oliver haden't killed him.

The first two are the ones that are identical and still read like someone using this trope to complain. Am I good to remove the first two? Also does the third one fit? Isn't this trope about groups rather than just a random guy?

Edited by Bullman on Mar 20th 2022 at 5:45:50 AM

Does this from BreatherEpisode.Western Animation fit the trope page:

• Dexter's Laboratory had a few episodes which were more light-hearted, sandwiched in-between during the show's Three Shorts format:
  • "Dial M For Monkey: Magmanamanus" in Season 1 was sandwiched in-between the dark, Time Travel-focused "DeeDeeMensional" and Sick Episode "Maternal Combat" that highlighted Dexter's Ping Pong Naïveté. In this episode, Monkey didn't face any intergalactic threat or threatening villain, just a lava monster, Magmanamanus, a Kaiju parody physically bearing some resemblance to DC Comics' Clayface that's not quite a Not Zilla (due to being made of lava) who wanted to go to sleep and is more of Anti-Villain than a true villain threat; any villain threat was accidental. He is temperamental but not evil and just wanted some sleep. As such, it was the lightest episode of the three shorts in this episode (Season 1, Episode 1) and ended on a more emotional note than the other two.
  • "Sun, Surf and Science" in Season 2 was a Villain Episode, focusing on Mandark (pre-Villain Decay) but he didn't do anything evil as he normally does, the only thing he did particularly wrong was cheating during a surfing contest. But this one was more light-hearted and showed him making a new friend, a surfer dude, especially as he's not normally shown having friends in other episodes. It showed him in a more positive light, Dexter was entirely absent in this episode. This was sandwiched between the dark "The Continuum of Cartoon Fools" and the frightening "Big Bots" about a volcanic eruption.
  • "Dexter's Library" in Season 4 aired between "Bad Cable Manners" which satirized Digital Piracy Is Evil and "The Scrying Game" which was a Darker and Edgier episode, and focused on Dexter getting Drunk with Power as he automated a library with robotic help and trying to find a Bland-Name Product version of Green Eggs and Ham. Dexter remains the Butt-Monkey as usual, but for a more mundane reason; the amount of books he can take out is limited from five to four.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on Mar 20th 2022 at 10:50:11 AM