Main Chaotic Neutral Discussion

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AnotherGuy
Topic
01:20:08 PM May 20th 2016
How about Catwoman?

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/catwoman.jpg
There's a reason the Dating Catwoman trope exists
jormis29
04:11:32 PM May 20th 2016
edited by jormis29
You might want take any suggestions to the Image Pickin' forum but you have to be sure that the image illustrates the concept to those who are not familiar with the work
angelthread1w9
Topic
03:13:53 PM Jun 17th 2014
Oh, by the way, there's a link to the trope For the Evulz on the official Touhou entry.

Those characters wouldn't have the motivation of For the Evulz if their Chaotic Neutral. :p

It should be It Amused Me instead. ^^; So I'm going to change it if that's okay.
angelthread1w9
Topic
10:31:42 AM Jun 5th 2014
I added some examples to the Touhou fan-fic Imperfect Metamorphosis.

I figured with all of the heavy lampshading from Takerfoxx that Rumia at least fits this alignment perfectly.

She's not evil, but she isn't good either. She's more of a slightly civilized youkai with standards, as are most youkai.
NeutralPerson
Topic
06:17:46 PM Jan 5th 2014
Do you think that Naked Snake or "Big Boss" on {{Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker}} would fit as a Chaotic Neutral? I think so because he's basically a rebel against law, he builds his own country per se (a country without borders), and claims that they only fight for those who need them regardless of their ethics and morals. I know he eventually changes a bit, but what do you think?
VVK
Topic
12:10:37 AM Sep 4th 2013
edited by 70.33.253.45
Disputing Black Hat Guy from xkcd. Most of the things he does are For the Evulz. I'm not even sure he's Chaotic and not just Neutral Evil. The same goes for his Distaff Counterpart, who's just the same character.

If no-one says anything, I'll remove that example soon.
sadron
Topic
12:29:26 AM Jun 17th 2013
This page used to have Jack Sparrow as its page image, now it has none. Can we put it back or something? No image is boring.
ShonenLight
Topic
08:15:19 PM Feb 21st 2013
I deleted Avatar Korra because Chaotic Neutrals are characters who only looks after themselves and don't care about anyone else is problems but their own. Korra cares about her friends, family and is devoted to save the world. I would say she is more of Chaotic Good
MagBas
02:48:57 AM Feb 22nd 2013
Out of note, the official description of Chaotic Neutral, in the Hypertext D20, is "Chaotic Neutral, "Free Spirit"

A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesnít strive to protect othersí freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it.

Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom from both societyís restrictions and a do-gooderís zeal. "

therugi
Topic
01:14:08 PM Sep 6th 2012
edited by therugi
So...Akuma from Street Fighter has been here for a pretty long time as Chaotic Neutral. The definition of these alignments are pretty fuzzy, so I won't force my take on Akuma's alignment. However, I don't agree with the justification in the description. Sticking with a personal code of honor, even if it's not a common one, strikes me as Lawful rather than Chaotic. I would say he's at least Lawful Neutral based on the justification.

Here's my opinion, and warning: spoilers, Akuma is also Evil for making every fight to be a fight to the death. He also threw away his humanity, basically, to master his fighting style, resulting in losing all sense of compassion. He then went on to killing his master and almost killing his brother, Gouken. His newest super powered mode in Street Fighter 4 is pretty blatantly evil, with the sharp teeth and horns. Yes, he did canonically kill Bison, but this is more of a Lawful act than Good: Bison stole all of his powers rather than gain it on his own, and this deserved instant death in Akuma's eyes. Result: Akuma is Lawful Evil.
Robotnik
Topic
10:52:16 AM Aug 14th 2012
Is it possible for a Knight Templar like Aldo Raine to be Chaotic Neutral? Because I think he is a Knight Templar (and the trope is listed for him on the Inglourious Basterds Character page).

I don't think he's a Psycho for Hire. I think he genuinely believes what he's doing is morally right and that the Nazis (and thus most German soldiers) deserve what they get. He certainly takes a sadistic pleasure in it, but based on dialogue Raine really does seem to believe he's justified. Thus, a Knight Templar.

Since Knight Templars are generally considered Lawful Evil or Lawful Neutral, where does that put Raine? Please only reply to this to discuss his Character Alignment. I'm not going to discusss this with anyone who believes he's just a sociopathic sadist who enjoys killing, because I think there's more to his characterization than that.

MagBas
05:14:51 PM Aug 14th 2012
edited by MagBas
Here is the description of the law vs chaos conflict in the Hypertext D20: " Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.

Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.

"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

"Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them."

Well, based in this description(the "judge" bits, to be more exact), the lawful alignments really are more similar to the mindset of a Knight Templar punishing persons than the chaotic alignments.
Robotnik
06:52:31 PM Aug 15th 2012
edited by Robotnik
The only thing I wonder about regarding Raine is the "respect authority" part. He clearly disobeys orders in mutilating Landa, and implies he's done something similar in the past (he also bootlegged, but seriously, did anyone' ever follow Prohibition?). That said, the key word is "respect", not "obey".

Other than that one bit, the "lawful" description seems to sum up Raine's character pretty well, specifically the close-minded and judgemental parts (he's also a pretty honest guy from what we see, but that's more debatable). Another factor could be that Those Wacky Nazis are considered lawful, and Raine, in his own way, is Not So Different from a Nazi.

So, Lawful Evil or Lawful Neutral it is, then? Or is he still Chaotic Neutral?

Actually, is it acceptable to say he balances out to True Neutral?

VVK
Topic
04:21:48 AM May 27th 2012
I'd like to remove all the The Order of the Stick examples, except maybe the "interpretation" about Thog one, while still noting he's actually Chaotic Evil. Apparently, Vaarsuvius is canonically True Neutral (and I don't think (s)he has really deviated from that, especially "recently"), and Thog Chaotic Evil, and the third character's quote sounds like True Neutral.

Unless someone objects here, I'll remove them soon.
VVK
Topic
05:36:28 AM May 11th 2012
Nothing makes Discord not evil. He's Chaotic Evil, not Chaotic Neutral. Putting this here in case someone wants to argue.
BigBertha
04:43:01 PM Jul 14th 2014
Not anymore, as evidenced in season 4.
VeronicaWakefield
Topic
03:16:38 PM Feb 12th 2012
Removed comments not really related to Chaotic Neutral about the slaadi from Dungeons & Dragons always looking like toads despite being the essence of chaos.

This isn't a mystery; it's explained in Planescape canon in the campaign supplement Tales From the Infinite Staircase. Normally pure slaadi would come in all shapes, sizes, and power levels, but the slaad lords sabotaged the Spawning Stone to create only a few different types to prevent some random mutation from ending up more powerful than they are.

Since this is an established canon point and only tangential to the classification of slaadi as Chaotic Neutral, the discussion of it here is close enough to Natter to be removed.
jiglitilittllitllopin
Topic
03:14:00 PM Nov 12th 2011
I really dont think N from Pokemon Black/White is chaotic neutral. I mean, he spends the game basically confused, having found people who arent monsters. His whole life and ideals have been manipulated to Push him toward this one goal. While he may have been chaotic neutral, Once hilbert/hilda defeat him and Ghetsis goes completely insane, its quite clear that he is really unhappy with how he acted.

...And he DID personally end the Genesect project, as the note in the P2 Laboratory points out.
jiglitilittllitllopin
Topic
02:57:33 PM Nov 12th 2011
I found a great example of Chaotic Neutral that can show the nature without disrupting a game: The CN character does things because his friends do things. He likes his friends. It is a purely selfish reason for acting, but can allow the character to do good and thus not disrupt a campaign.

To make it all the more spectacular, you can show off the Evil Goatee version of your party, with all the good ones being evil obviously...And the chaotic neutral character having not changed personality one bit, only now he does evil things because that same group of friends is now evil. His motivations, even in a mirror reality, are identically insane. The result is just much different.

LokIago
Topic
12:30:03 PM Feb 23rd 2011
OK, rather than muck up the board, I will voice my disagreement here.

Jayne Cobb, from Firefly, is NOT chaotic neutral. He's too violent and sadistic, and it's really only the fact that he's getting paid that keeps him in check. He may have a sweet side, but he is still neutral evil. Even the Firefly page has him listed as the "Token Evil Teammate".

I vote we remove him from the page.
KSonik
Topic
12:51:02 PM Dec 26th 2010
The previous caption had clearly nothing to do with this alignment. And taken out of context, sounds more suited to an Evil alignment(specifically Neutral Evil though the other two may also work)
insert_name_here92
Topic
02:55:01 PM Dec 10th 2010
Alright, I removed Taokaka because, while she does behave in an insane, stupid, and often unpredictable fashion, she never does anything out of malice. All of her motivations lie in doing in whatever she can to help her village and those close to her. When she's fighting Terumi in her ending of Continuum Shift, her biggest regret is the fact that she can't even protect her hometown. Someone who's Chaotic Neutral is primarily concerned with his or her own freedom, and the fact that she values her own town that much more, to me, prevents her from Chaotic Neutral.
KSonik
Topic
06:09:56 AM Nov 26th 2010
edited by KSonik
Removed Black Wirlwind, Raziel and Cha Dawn, who are clearly not Chaotic Neutral
KSonik
Topic
12:36:03 AM Nov 24th 2010
Removed conan, Jet, and the dinosaurs. Firstly, Conan sounds by his entry more like an evil character and jet is not Chaotic Neutral, being an well-Intentioned extremist. Dinosaurs, due to their incapability to make moral jugments are by default True Neutral
MagBas
05:03:27 PM Nov 26th 2010
edited by MagBas
  • Well, at least in Jet case i have two replys 1-He only qualifies as evil in his first episode. Starting of the second, he is definitively non-evil.2-Be one Well-Intentioned Extremist not means that you is automatically evil in one Dn D context. Give one look in Queen Aurala(canonicaly Neutral Good) in the Eberron setting.
  • About the others: i not like of see my own alignment examples being deleted at the first alignment disagreement. By this, i not want see the examples of the others being deleted of this mode. Please, not delete more.
KSonik
07:52:40 AM Nov 27th 2010
edited by KSonik
Okay fine i will not delete Jet though Well-Intentioned Extremist means a villain who has a good goal but uses evil means, so how is Queen Aurala Neutral Good? That doesn't make any sense though.
Eyclonus
06:26:02 PM Feb 21st 2011
I disagree with your judgement on Conan, looking through the page history, it seems whoever wrote his entry didn't read much of the stories and probably could've phrased it a lot better. Conan is all of those things by dint of necessity, considering his opponents are usually Complete Monster Gods or Wizards with a side order of cannibalism & rape, or well intentioned Knight Templar Tyrants that have a Vlad Tepes approach to Law and Order policies.

Conan is Chaotic Neutral because while he fights omnicidal cosmic horrors on a regular basis, he despises the "Civilised" kingdoms that aren't ruled by wizards, even though they are the most likely groups to be considered Good, if they were given time to evolve from restricting the freedom of their people and enslaving the various tribes.
KSonik
Topic
06:54:42 AM Nov 16th 2010
edited by KSonik
Removed Kokonoe and Riddick as they sounded more like Chaotic Evil
SomeNewGuy
12:02:55 PM Nov 16th 2010
They aren't. Riddick doesn't give a damn about anyone and only kills when he has too, or if the victim deserves it.

Kokonoe is a bitch, yes, but she is neither wantonly destructive nor is she actively malicious. Being a bitch and being obsessed with revenge does not make you evil.
KSonik
12:18:50 PM Nov 16th 2010
edited by KSonik
Really? because this

  • Riddick is a guy who does good things in a horrendously evil manner, and all because he wants to fulfill a deal so that people will just leave him the fuck alone.

Sounds more like Evil than Neutral, doing evil towards a good end for a selfish reason.

Also Kokonoe's entry specifically says she is not evil only because Terumi is a Complete Monster. I'm sorry, but if the entry states that the only thing that keeps a character from being evil is not any actual legitimate reason, but because of the fact someone they face is a Complete Monster, then that doesn't really suggest that you are Chaotic Neutral really. So I'm removing their entries
Fighteer
05:02:36 PM Nov 16th 2010
K Sonik, you might want to consider that (a) you aren't the sole arbiter of alignment; (b) it's inherently a subjective trope and therefore people are allowed to disagree.

Re: Riddick, there's Word of God, or at least Word Of Vin Diesel, about his alignment, so go with that and not any particular fan interpretation.

KSonik
05:59:39 AM Nov 17th 2010
edited by KSonik
Yes i know but a) I am not making my claims based on assumptions but based on the fact that using evil means makes you evil not neutral in Dn D even if you are doing it for a good goal. In fact, it is other people who are making assumptions not based on any proofs but based on their own opinions without any evidence to back it up.Rary from Greyhawk(official Dn D setting)is an official proof of my claim. He is Neutral Evil and and is an Well-intentioned extremist.

This is in contrast to other people, who are making their assumptions based on their beliefs, not based on any official evidence to support their claims. So it is very hypocritical to assume that I am just making claims based on my opinions when actually I am not.
Jordan
06:32:49 AM Nov 17th 2010
I'm not going to contest this example anymore, but please don't add Jet to Chaotic Evil, because he just isn't that alignment if you compare him to any other Chaotic Evil character.

That being said, I know you read Order Of The Stick, and so I would cite something like Haley's murder of Crystal/Roy's use of Belkar to the contrary- these are both kind of evil methods for good reasons that don't disqualify either of them from being Good.

Looking at a lot of your entries, it seems like you have a problem with the idea that a character who does morally questionable things can be good/likable in the slightest.
KSonik
06:43:31 AM Nov 17th 2010
edited by KSonik
Hey I am not going to, okay. and I don't have problem with the concept that those that uses evil means can't be antiheroes or antivillains. I will cite that in Dn D using evil means to achieve a good end makes you Neutral, which, although isn't necessarily something I agree with, i can logically se the reasoning.

Outside of a Dn D context however, you can call yourself an morally ambiguous villain if you use evil means to achieve a good end, but if you operate within a Dn D context, you will be an Evil alignment.

I hope you see where I am going with this. Basically, if you are going to apply a Dn D alignment to a Well-intentioned extremist,don't expect that person to end up with a Laful Neutral,True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral under the Dn D rules, but an evil alignment.
Jordan
06:58:05 AM Nov 17th 2010
I did delete him from Chaotic Evil, but I think I had some confusion and didn't realize you weren't always the one readding him.

Actually, that makes a fair amount of sense, although that would seem to raise the issue that no non Dn D character should be given a Character Alignment, because as your example suggests, that system uses standards that don't really match up with reality.
MagBas
Topic
04:51:37 AM Nov 13th 2010
edited by MagBas

Jet's means: flood the own city that he was trying "free" and kill all their habitants- including the Earth Kingdom ones. He can qualify as Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good only in their second apparition.
KSonik
07:10:05 AM Nov 13th 2010
edited by KSonik
Exactly... Man, I don't get why there could be anyone who thinks Jet would qualify for anything Neutral by Dn D terms. In Dn D using Evil means to achieve a Good end makes you Evil. Heck the example that I cited above is an official proof. It just bugs my mind really
KSoniK
Topic
01:29:52 AM Nov 3rd 2010
removed the following
  • V, the anarchistic terrorist of V for Vendettais just that, barely avoiding being Chaotic Evil. He wants to overthrow a fascist authoritarian government but he isn't opposed to murder and torture while doing it, not even if his victims are innocent. He's somewhere between Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Good in the film, with his goals and philosophies being that of a Chaotic Good person, and his good parts being played up. Although he still tortures, starves, and brainwashes his own sidekick.

V sounds here more like Chaotic Evil than Chaotic Neutral
Jordan
02:37:06 PM Nov 8th 2010
V is definitely not Chaotic Evil- he's violent to serve a noble goal; Chaotic Evil people are violent because they love violence in itself. I'm not saying he's definitely Chaotic Neutral (he might not just fit any of the D and D alignments), but he's not Chaotic Evil.
KSonik
05:16:19 AM Nov 10th 2010
edited by KSonik
Using Evil means to achieve a good end makes you in Dn D Evil aligned not Neutral. Rary from Greyhawk(an official Dn D setting) is officially Neutral Evil and wants to bring peace to Oerth... by crushing it under his heel. so I'm not saying that by my definition he is evil, but by Dn D rules based on the information given in his entry yes he would be something Evil but only if he operated within a Dn D context.
cclospina
03:40:03 PM Nov 12th 2010
Well technically V only killed an innocent person (and she was a Death Seeker) and were apparently uninhabited building.

So YMMV
Pannic
12:25:26 PM Dec 20th 2010
According to Dn D rules, anarchists and lunatics are generally chaotic neutral. V is both.
KSonik
02:42:56 PM Dec 20th 2010
Well he's listed in the Chaotic Evil page.
89.243.33.216
Topic
02:45:18 PM Oct 2nd 2010
Removed the following:
  • Black Whirlwind from Jade Empire, an Ax-Crazy mercenary whose chaotic and impulsive actions (Sleeping with his employers wife, cutting in two a girl two rivals were fighting over) normally end in him having to kill everyone in self defence.
    • Same goes for Cha Dawn from Alien Crossfire, leader of the Cult of Planet, whose ultimate goal is to respect Planet's environments at all costs, even if that means returning Planet to its pristine state (making him at least borderline Chaotic Evil).
  • Raziel from Legacy of Kain fits as chaotic neutral. He's billigerent, defiant, and rebellous against most everyone he meets. He expresses no remorse at cutting down the mooks that get in his way, even though they are completely incapable of killing him, nor does he bat an eye at draining the souls of helpless victims chained to walls, though he's not as sadistic about it as Kain is. He rarely thinks his actions through, making choices that cause great harm only because they benifit, or could potentially benifit him in the short term. Though he claims to be trying to restore balance to the world, his true motivation is selfish revenge and later, escaping a Fate Worse Than Death, regardless of the consequences. Up until his Heroic Sacrifice, that is.
  • Kefka seems like this at first, or is, depending on your Point of View.

Kefka is the epitome of Evil and the others sounds more like they are Evil
MagBas
02:51:39 PM Oct 2nd 2010
edited by MagBas
I guess that you is right(SPECIALLY in Raziel case), by this, i am putting his edits of today in Chaotic Evil.
89.243.33.216
Topic
02:28:10 PM Oct 2nd 2010
Removed the Robin Hood examples and Jet. Their description in the Chaotic Neutral page gives off the impression that they are more Evil by Dnd definition than Neutral. Besides, Robin Hood is considered CG.
KSonik
Topic
07:32:58 AM Sep 24th 2010
Fair addition, but while Anti villains shouldn't at least be an evil alignment, in practice, depending on the context, they can actually by Dn D definition be any non Good alignment.
cclospina
Topic
01:41:47 PM Aug 31st 2010
Most of Magnificent Bastards not evil are Chaotic Neutral, Examples tyler durden, jack sparrow, John constantine etc...
86.164.208.101
07:06:32 AM Sep 1st 2010
if they are not evil then they are just magnificent
SensuBean
07:12:48 AM Sep 1st 2010
Yup.
cclospina
10:10:16 AM Sep 1st 2010
edited by cclospina
"Also, the Magnificent Bastard is likely to appear as a Villain Protagonist or dark Anti Hero"

jack sparrow, john constantine, lelouch, tyler durden, are dark antiheroes.

Though in case of lelouch, generally it is debated if it is Chaotic Good, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral or Wild Card.
SensuBean
10:59:29 AM Sep 1st 2010
edited by SensuBean
A dark anti-hero usually is evil, simply generally presented as on your side. According to what I've heard Lelouch and Constantive have both consciously, sanely, methodically, and sadistically (the basic requirements for genuine evil) done far too horrible things to be considered either good or neutral. I have no information about Durden, but Jack Sparrow seemed comparatively "harmless" from what little I remember of him.
KSonik
Topic
06:18:34 AM Aug 3rd 2010
Removed Screwy Squirrel. The description for the trope goes as following.

"A protagonist who mercilessly torments characters primarily for his own (and the audience's) amusement. This is sometimes over a minor slight where the character is annoyed that the perpetrator doesn't even acknowledge it. Often the product of a disturbed animator, the character's pranks are often of the Dude Not Funny category."

Anyone who sadistically goes around tormenting people for fun is neither Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good.
Kulsprutejojjo
03:50:55 AM Aug 5th 2010
Ugh... And they rarely ever hurt the perpetrator victim beyond easily healed wounds (in-universe, at any rate). The Screwy Squirrel is mainly Chaotic Neutral based on the fact that the acts are socially acceptable in-setting, meaning in a Looney Tunes cartoon, one can get run over by a steamroller, get an anvil on your head and get blown up with a dynamite, and yet they are still seen to be alive and well with only but a few scratches and maybe a broken leg. To qualify for an evil alignment in the end, one would have to actually break out of these limits and actually hurt somebody permanently or even kill somebody for their own amusement or gain (except if death is really, really cheap in the setting). That simply isn't part of the Screwy Squirrel routine, and neither is that what a would Chaotic Neutral do at least on a regular basis. That is why the Screwy Squirrel is (mostly) a Chaotic Neutral trope, with a few breaks into Chaotic Good if it has enough other redeeming qualities that pushes it into that territory.

Bear in mind, with your opinion, you're pushing about half of the Looney Tunes cast into evil territory due to your own opinion about a trope that was codified by them. They're tricksters, not outright villains, and while they easily seem pretty unsympathetic, you can always look at it the other way and say that they could easily be much, much worse.

I'm going to re-add it AGAIN. Quite a few people here believe it belongs here, and I am pretty sure it's more than those who share your opinion.
KSonik
06:12:54 AM Aug 5th 2010
edited by KSonik
Yes but the whole point of Chaotic Neutral is that they are Chaotic and Neutral, as in not hurting innocent people just because you feel like it and actually leaving alone those that haven't done anything wrong.

And you are completely missing the point. Let's take an example. If I blow up a guy and he easily comes back from death and it is funny that wouldn't make a difference as at the end of the day it is my sadistic intentions that matter when deciding a DND alignment.

I'm not gonna go and say that they are outright evil by my definition of it (I tend to reserve those for actual villains) but by Dn D definitions, no, Screwy Squirrels would not qualify for this alignment due to the fact that they torment people for no just reason.

Heck as stated on the trope page these kind of character can venture into Dude, Not Funny!.

So i'm going to remove it ONCE AGAIN

PS as you said the Looney Tunes characters are tricksters not tormentors which is what the Screwy Squirrel is

Kulsprutejojjo
11:20:17 AM Aug 5th 2010
edited by Kulsprutejojjo
No, I perfectly understood your point.

And it also says protagonist, and the trope is currently listed under tricksters. Also, do note that 90% of the examples on the page are Screwy Squirrels are, to some degree, heroes. In essence to what I said above, as long as other characters in the setting don't estrange themselves from the character or tell him that he went too far, it is treated as fine. If anvils rain from the sky on a daily basis and nobody actually dies from getting hit from one, it's not such a big deal if a character causes such a thing. Quite a few of them are rather nice once you get past their antics even, if you take a close look at the Western Animation section.

In layman's terms, you take the mercilessly torments part a bit too realistically than trhe trope itself means. I mean, you wouldn't say one is evil simply because one puts a trashcan full of water at the door of somebody's house and then rings the doorbell just to prank somebody. In essence it is the same thing, just in the acceptable range of the reality. True, it's not okay dropping an anvil on somebody's head in real life, but it is in the cartoon.

The describtion of the trope itself is a little bit fuzzy in itself however. Tormentor is perhaps a bit harsh word for the kind of trope, since it's more describing a prankster cartoon character, not actively striving for evil, but just to entertain themselves. In the frames of our describtions (note that it isn't just me who keeps editing it back to the Chaotic Neutral list) of the alignments, that immidiately disqualifies the Screwy Squirrel from any evil alignment unless it has other traits that makes the character seem less sympathetic.
cclospina
Topic
08:10:16 AM Aug 2nd 2010
Decides to remove the sample of '90s Anti-Hero and Byronic Hero, Because both are subgroups of anti Heroes Type IV or V.

Jordan
06:55:50 PM Sep 3rd 2010
I don't know whether to put this reply here or elsewhere, but I think that maybe Deadpool should be added back in. Reading a bit about him, it sounds like it would be fair to say that he's at least sometimes this alignment, although at other times (such as in that Hulk Vs movie), he's Chaotic Evil- it seems to be Depending on the Writer.
Kersey475
02:35:57 PM Oct 12th 2010
Deadpool seems to fall clearly in the Chaotic Stupid department.
KSonik
Topic
06:40:19 AM Aug 2nd 2010
Contrary to what the title may suggest Heroic Sociopaths are Villain Protagonist. For example Revy from Black Lagoon, Belkar from Orderofthe Stick, Black Mage from 8BitTheatre, Richard from Looking for Group, etc and as I said they go around hurting innocent people
cclospina
07:51:35 AM Aug 2nd 2010
edited by cclospina
Mugen, Marv (sin city),Grom hellscream, Deadpool, Rina inverse, kenpachi, Devilman ,Sam and max, Tyler durden,Beetlejuice, rico (The Penguins of madagascar), heloise etc.. are Heroic Sociopath and Chaotic Neutral.

Kersey475
Topic
02:36:33 PM Jul 9th 2010
edited by Kersey475
I'm creating a story idea and I need help deciding which alignment the protagonist belongs in (it would also help if you could tell me where on the Sliding Scale Of Anti Heroes he belongs). Currently, I see him as being in Chaotic Neutral but here's a description of his personality:

antvasima
02:45:35 PM Jul 9th 2010
Going by your description above he's not neutral/rather harmless, but rather conflicted somewhere in-between this and an evil alignment, with considerably stronger leaning to thw second, but mostly directing his attentions to people worse than he is, and wishing to truly become neutral.
Kersey475
03:10:53 PM Jul 9th 2010
edited by Kersey475
Do you mean lawful-chaotic neutral or good-evil neutral?

BTW he normally minds his own business, but his empathy (yes, he does have that) usually causes him to intervine when some thugs are bullying some helpless people.

Could you also advise where on the Sliding Scale Of Anti Heroes he would be on?
sovvil2008@yahoo.co.uk
08:17:09 AM Jul 11th 2010
edited by KSonik
To be fair the difference between a Neutral and an Evil character is that the latter is willing to harm a innocent so I totally agree with the alignment you gave your character, although he does perhaps have evil tendencies. If he was willing to harm an innocent, then yes he would be Chaotic Evil. By the way, where could I in the future find your story?
Kersey475
04:59:23 PM Jul 11th 2010
Go to Troper Works and look for "Chronicles Of Conflict".

Also, don't want to be a Grammer Nazi, but don't you mean that the latter (evil) is willing to harm an innocent?
KSonik
05:34:30 AM Jul 12th 2010
edited by KSonik
yeah
AJSherick
Topic
07:00:29 PM Jul 4th 2010
Han Solo and Lando Calrissian, really? There is absoluely nothing chaotic about their behavior. Han is True Neutral and Lando is Lawful Neutral during their introductions in he films. And in the end, they both move to Lawful Good, seeing as they are now both high-ranking military officials.
tricksterson
10:01:12 AM Jul 9th 2010
Han could be defined as either True or Chaotic Neutral. How you can define Lando as Lawful Neutral I don't know. He clearly is in it for Number 1 at the beginning. I would call him True Neutral though, not Chaotic.
ClassyMyths
09:56:46 PM Mar 1st 2012
^Are you kidding me? He was working with the Empire to save his city! He was in it for the good of the people.
94.2.212.203
Topic
02:35:49 PM May 4th 2010
edited by 94.2.212.203
The expression definitely conveys his chaoticness fairly well, but do we need the Fauxtivational Poster caption?
SomeNewGuy
Topic
05:18:38 PM Apr 24th 2010
Dear sovvil2008@yahoo.co.uk:

Stop being a holier than thou chainsaw editor. The wiki's definition of alignments (particularly this and Chaotic Evil) are obviously different from yours, so stop editing them to fit your personal standards.

Sincerly,

Some New Guy
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Main.ChaoticNeutral