Pokémon anime

So many people thinking Ash's gonna leave this gen. Just like every other gen. I'm gonna laugh when it doesn't happen (again).

It's like saying, "Pikachu gave kids seizures in that Porygon episode, so they should kick him out of the show".

Sadly, that actually is accurate. What's worse is that Porygon's one of my favorites.

To be fair, every generation could theoretically be "Ash's last saga." We'll just keep saying it every gen until it actually happens.

Shipping in anime is usually "endgame" stuff. Introducing a new girl this late in the series with a blatant crush on Ash, and then constantly reminding us of it in the episodes and promotional material, and going as far as to make an episode title, "Ash and Serena's first date!" feels rather odd coming from this show.

Hell it took 6 generations for Ash's water starter to finally evolve, so there's a first time for everything.

Given the fact that the Best Wishes writers essentially rewrote Kanto and that this crew seems to be using this generation to rewrite AG

Does that mean Gen 7 will be the DP rewrite? If so what you'd prefer they do differently?

Gen 7 can't be a DP re-write. Unless the next girl is a co-star like Dawn with a forced mascot starter and the writers make us suffer through Brock again.

The argument could be made that DP itself could've been a "different take" on AG, what with the same sidequest for the girl played out differently and the evil team plot not being treated as an afterthought. Maybe Gen 7 will "give Sinnoh and Kanto a miss and go straight on into (rewriting) Johto".

Regardless, an Evil Counterpart for Ash EDIT: that actually learns a lesson at the end would be nice; as opposed to Paul. Could be either an arc-long Tourney Rival or an admin-level for the gen's Evil Team. EDIT: I'd also like Ash to be defeated by actual sound strategy instead of either shear brute force or moar hot-blud than ju, but that applies to all generations where he's defeated. Preferably strategy versus strategy, which applies either in defeat or victory; doesn't have to be super-subtle, just sound.

edited 21st Nov '14 10:12:48 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Its actually sad when you realize the female companions fate on this show will either be Gym leader tag-along (Misty and Iris), coordinator (May and Dawn), or psuedo-coordinator (Serena).

The writers can't think of anything for the female companion to do but Contests, appeals, or just be a tag along Gym leader who bickers with Ash. After 5 female companions it feels like they're stuck in a rut, since everything battle-oriented will always go to Ash.

Its what prevents me from getting attached to the female character like I used to, simply because its all a routine now and you know what to expect. Watch Serena fail her first performance and cry when she loses the same way May and Dawn did when they lost their first Contests. Looking at those scans Serena's dress even looks similar to the ones Dawn used to wear.

Quite true. And I'm expecting Serena to lose the first time, be sad and/or cry about it, win next time etc. as well.

And it's worse because unlike Ash, these girls are all distinct individuals, so it feels less justified that the writers are basically recycling the same ideas. For the Fleeting Demographic Rule it's not as bad; for us, it's a nightmare, because we've had only two formulas here. It seems to be a combination of Acceptable Feminine Goals and Traits and Audience Surrogate at play - the girls are expected (by the writers) to be, on some level, easy for the audience to insert themselves into (just like Ash, as a Vanilla Protagonist, is so for the boys), and so they play to conventional feminine characteristics (downplayed with Misty and Iris, but they still got this to some measure, especially the the former as she sometimes Thinks Like a Romance Novel); also, the contrast is probably meant to draw a more varied audience in (I wonder if some writers might be blaming the ratings decline on Iris' goal being more subtlely developed and such, and so went back to the old formula somewhat - that, and mimicking early-May among other things).

The problem, of course, is that this mentality is only a valid one because of the trappings of the setting. If they tried to go for something a bit more complex (in terms of character goals and such), they'd be hitting Cerebus Syndrome and risking Continuity Lockout (which would cause the loss of the Victim Of The Week aspects and lighter qualities that actually make it appealing to many); this is why the villain plots are presumably developed less on-screen (along with not wanting to lose focus of Ash's goal To Be a Master), and why character and weekly-based stories are needed to drive things. For a similar reason, they can't just stop having female characters in The Team: not only would they lose a substantial portion of the audience, but the other human characters' interactions with each other are also the show's lifeblood (without Misty and Brock, Ash wasn't all too interesting and had little to bounce off); they can't allow too many characters at a time because of how hard it is to give someone narrative purpose in balance (it gets stretched just beyond Ash alone), but cutting them would also make for a less interesting program. Length is an issue, as is format - Pokemon Special is both faster-paced and more tightly-wound in terms of narrative, and even then a great part of the appeal comes from the protagonists' inter-relationships (if in part because of

I actually admit that despite botched execution, Iris was a slight breath of fresh air for me, simply because she was an attempt by the writers to have a type-specialist that - unlike Misty - actually got plot-relevant things to do with more battling and such (that feeling goes away, of course, with knowing that if Misty was part of later seasons with the Tournament Arc here and there, she'd probably have gotten the same). Her downside was, of course, not being in focus as much as May and Dawn - they had Deuteragonist (or Tritagonist) status with Ash (and Pikachu), and a lot to do overall. Serena's key difference to them appears to be that the writers have taken their time with her - for better or for worst, especially since May herself was a little slow in development initially (but not this slow, of course).

I'm too tired (and uncertain) of any other approaches that might be taken in the future to give their female characters (and heck, the supporting male heroes) relevance within the overall plot that works for the format (that is, without changing it up too much OR affecting the tone too great, but being more on par with Ash in importance and obvious progress). Of course, Donald the Potholder has provided great insight into how and why character types in this series can/do work, and why they can't/don't - much better than me. If you're reading this Don, your theories about the original purposes of Misty and Brock - which seem transcendental of simply focusing on character goals and basic interaction - make so much sense, and would probably lift the series if similar could be applicable now... the question is, are any of the current writers who get hired for this series nowadays capable? Especially since Shudo's key strength as a writer was, more than anything, a strange sort of subtlety - something which the genre this anime is in isn't exactly its selling point (more's the pity).

Its also because had Serena come directly after Dawn, she would have been viewed as entirely too similar. Another girly girl who talks about her hair and appearance, wears dresses, has a skirt and is entirely feminine? Serena's entire design and character seems like the writers said, "Well people didn't like Iris, let's just try to re-do Dawn again except this girl will have a heavy crush on Ash and she won't be into battling" and that's what they did.

The difference is that Dawn was a lot more headstrong and she was more Ash-like in behavior in that she threw herself into danger more often, while Serena is more lady-like, submissive and hesitant to do anything.

Its only that Serena is coming after Iris that people don't notice this as much. Had Serena come directly after Dawn she would have felt even more redundant, completely with a less interest "contest" type arc as well.

I appreciate your recognition. Actually, looking on the current cast, I was going to frame it as another Freudian Trio, but Serena having as much knowledge of Performances as Ash does (i.e. none) prevents her from having a suitable knowledge of Kalosian culture that would befit The McCoy versus Ash's Battle-savvy Spock with Clemont having passable knowledge of both aspects,^note despite not having friends outside of family, though that's no different from the rest of Ash's companions, but knowing that he still has a whole lot to learn about both and being open to learning from his respective companions.

For the main part of your post, however, I think you're applying Viewers Are Morons to a scenario where Viewers Are Goldfish is the correct interpretation:

• Continuity Lockout has to do with tying one's plot points directly to past actions. If one writes a new character, especially one with different motivations and characterization than priors, and refrains from making any overt references to the aforementioned priors, I don't see that as imposing Lockout. In fact, I see that as catering to the Fleeting Demographic: each section has their own female heroine with her own style, and never shall any priors (save the immediate ones for some reason) meet. On that note, the "fresh eyecandy" argument for changing the girls falls flat on its face: Boys don't need "new" eye candy when they've already "left the store". Now, (school) class-specific eye candy is in line with FDR.
• Conversely, I believe that Serena's attempt at a Romance Arc is already giving the series a case of Cerebus Syndrome. Cerebus merely requires the plot to become more dramatic, not darker. And what easier way to insert Drama than to have a legitimate attempt to break the Chaste Hero out of his Chastity? It inserts drama while not requiring any antagonism. Granted, the Rocket plots in Best wishes inserted the traditional type of Cerebus Syndrome, (and were met with responses varying by region), but Puppy Love doesn't need darkness, just tension.

Granted, having experimental character archtypes may run afoul of "the Fleeting Demographic Are Morons", but that's entirely unrelated to Continuity. And changing character interactions does not require drama.

And in answer to your last question: The series won't get another Shudo. Though, from what we saw discussing that old book of his, that may be a good thing in the end. Instead, we seem to be getting a staff who seems determined to fulfill their vision of the series. Passion does not a good series guarantee, but a lack of Passion always leads to doom of one sort or another. Plus, the way I see it, they've demonstrated plenty of subtlety with Serena. Either that, or the fandom (all aspects) just cannot appreciate a well done Naïve Newcomer who isn't blatantly Too Dumb to Live.

edited 22nd Nov '14 9:31:12 PM by DonaldthePotholer

I was searching for some information on something and I was reminded of the Pokeathlon. I think they could bring it to the anime and have the female companion compete in those. It would be something new and different... but since Game Freak didn't add the Pokeathlon in later games, the anime has no reason to promote it.

As mentioned earlier, Perfomances are very much like the game!Contests so there's a connection there with the ORAS games, hence Serena competing in them.

I just noticed something funny Ash gets or at least temporarily owns in the case of Larvitar a pseudo legendary ever even numbered Gen. While that by itself is perhaps a coincidence I feel the progression of Ash's pseudos is not. In Gen 2/Johto in-between the 8th Gym and the League Ash has a Larvitar placed briefly into his care and that time was enough to give him an honorary appearance in the Spurt! Opening. In Gen 4/Sinnoh before the 8th Gym Ash gets a Gible. Now in Gen 6/Kalos before the 4th Gym Ash gets Goomy and going by the images of that future script cover and the spoiler cake that a member of the anime staff posted. It'll be evolving all the way to Goodra. What's next in Gen 8 will his first capture be the Pseudo?

edited 22nd Nov '14 10:45:53 PM by WorldTurtle

Ok i have to ask: what happen with the pokemon mysteries, Im talking about that weird thing happen to time to time in the show, for example the crystal onix.

Also I have to ask about much weird thinks in pokemon, the gigant dragonair,the gigant alakazan and gendar who almost end the world(and stop by a gigant jiggypluff....also what the her happen with her?) the weird ghasly who talk, the civilization that discover time travel....is thete any of this weird stuff again?

As cliche as it would be does anyone else think when they get around to Aegislash's spotlight episode they might make it a homage to The Sword in the Stone With either Ash or more likely a Character of the Day pulling Aegislash out because they were the Trainer it had been waiting for?

Apparently, it can detect the innate qualities of leadership. According to legend, whoever it recognizes is destined to become king. Y-Dex entry.

edited 23rd Nov '14 12:42:44 AM by WorldTurtle

Isn't that the sword that possesses you if you try to wield it?

Those sort of events still happen. It's just that outside of Decolora, the writers have been taking at least some adherence to plot-relevance making them rarer, especially the former.

How about this: the shiny Aegislash chooses Serena due to her not wanting to battle for gain, a test which even Ash and Clemont fail. Sort of like Virgin Power^note which she'd also have at this point except with regard to violence instead of Sex. Bonus Points if the episode happens between the 6th and 7th Gyms.^note Yes, I know that Joan was a warrior; she's just a more convienent parallel to Authur than Charlemagne is. Moar bonus if this is what Team Flare (and Team Rocket) is seeking in Frost Cavern in the Anime.

edited 23rd Nov '14 5:38:44 AM by DonaldthePotholer

I really wouldn't be for that at all. If she was selected because she's not aggressive, she'd be a shitty king then.

Oh no, you see, she's gonna be a queen... a Kalos Queen. So basically the twist is the sword just wants to compete in performances and not battles, and chooses a chosen one accordingly. :P

Alright, that interpretation amuses me. If it went with that logic as opposed to some weird pacifism aesop that's unfit for this medium, THAT I could be behind completely.

I actually hope she does become Kalos Queen. We're so used to getting close to the goal and failing in this series that once I'd like to see someone go all the way.

edited 23rd Nov '14 9:16:36 AM by Prime_of_Perfection

I was more thinking along the lines of the Aegislash not wanting to be a tool of conquest that it was for such a long time and not knowing of Performances at all. But I agree that the sword will grow to love them, being able to look Badass without actually fighting other Pokemon.

It's just too bad that N wasn't in this generation as such a Pokemon rejecting him could have launched him into a Heroic BSoD.

edited 23rd Nov '14 9:19:38 AM by DonaldthePotholer

I just like the idea of the sword in the stone turning out to be a vain princess-y character, contrary to what anyone expected.

Ash's Grass Type (assuming he gets one)

Skiddo/Gogoat gives him the usual sort of Grass-Type for him. With classic moves like Vine Whip, Razor Leaf, etc. Though I hope the writers try and diverse the goat's move-pool up the best that can.

Phantump/Trevenant (I'm not going to ponder how it'll evolve) fits design wise very well with the Phanpy/Donphan, Snorunt/Glalie, Gligar/Gliscor, and Scraggy/Scrafty (even though he hasn't evolved yet) sort of wild card: Has a cute basic stage then in one evolution becomes something a bit more intimidating. Also, like I've said before it would be the Grass-type version of Muk, Glalie, and Boldore.

The only wrinkle is the tree is a dual-types while Muk and co. are pure types. However I would hope both Trevenant's Ghost typing would get him a pass if looked at from a Nature Spirit angle. That said there is Bergmite/Avalugg who fits the embodiment of ice look even better then Glalie does… still I'd prefer Ash get something else rather then another pure-ice type for a wild card.

It's why Aegislash comes to mind for me here: What better to be the embodiment of Steel then a Cool Sword? Though what would a 'natural' embodiment of steel look like? Or has steel become too much of an invention of man for that to happen? For some reason I can't help but get the image of The Spiny.

edited 23rd Nov '14 12:41:11 PM by WorldTurtle

I think Ash's last slot will just go to a random Pokemon. Maybe even an old Hoenn Pokemon he never got the first time around. Always did want to see Ash with an Absol or Flygon back in the day (remember how he rode a Flygon in the 6th movie?), but it never happened.

Wouldn't mind seeing Ash get a Beldum like you do in the games.