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heliosKAISER The Struggler from Shadow Moses Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Struggler
#7326: Jan 2nd 2018 at 3:14:51 PM

You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

That said, I saw nothing wrong with your piece.

You gotta start somewhere.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7327: Jan 2nd 2018 at 5:00:32 PM

I also don't find anything wrong with it... and in fact, I'd probably be seriously peeved with anyone who comes in to complain about how this piece supposedly shits all over the 9/11 victims and survivors and clamors for its excision from the story. They're no better than Moral Guardians in my book.

Always remember this, Amita: You can't please everybody. Try to avoid pissing off one camp, and you'll most probably end up pissing off a second camp for "pandering" to the first one.

edited 2nd Jan '18 5:01:02 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
EvaUnit01 Fandom Heretic Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Fandom Heretic
#7328: Jan 2nd 2018 at 9:16:46 PM

Looks fine to me.

Asuka's dad is entitled to his opinion, as any hypothetical naysayers would be entitled to theirs.

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7329: Jan 4th 2018 at 3:08:06 PM

Earlier today, some additional dialogue came to my mind involving Misato and an OC, but it's not relevant to the story yet. And won't be for a long time. For context, the OC is a Blood Knight who, after racking up a staggering body count and becoming The Dreaded to his enemies, suddenly lets a bunch of crippled opponents retreat. Misato, being his commanding officer with the personality of her Rebuild Q incarnation, calls him out on it.

Misato: If you're unwilling to perform your job, I will relieve you of duty right here and now.

OC: What the hell are you talking about?

Misato: You don't have a habit of leaving survivors and had them dead to rights. Why did you spare them?

OC: What's the fun in killing people who can't fight back? It's nothing but pointless butchery.

Misato: Do you think this is some kind of game?! Everyone's laying their lives on the line for the cause here and you-

OC: That's fucking bullshit and you know it! What cause?! You NEVER believed in it any more than I did! You thought I'm too stupid to not notice?! You hate those people! You want to hurt them for what they're doing - and you love every second of watching them die! At my hands, at the ship's gunners' hands, doesn't matter! I have more blood on my hands than you have on yours, but I'm not gonna get lectured on morality by a bitch with a vendetta!

And that's coming from a guy who routinely goes for the cockpit and plays Mook Horror Show with a grin on his face at least once.

Not sure what Misato's reaction to that would be; I'm currently leaning towards a top-of-the-lungs Get Out! punctuated by her puling out her sidearm. To which the OC would respond by outright daring her to shoot him because she's going to get the whole crew killed with her hatredboner either way. Optionally, the altercation takes place on the bridge and the bridge crew all side with the OC because they've seen her behavior themselves (like her routinely ordering the crew to Sink the Lifeboats and Leave No Survivors with the excuse that they have neither the living space nor the life support capacity to take onboard several times her own crew's numbers in POWs), forcing Misato to back down because if she threw everyone in the brig, she'd have no one left to fly the ship with. It would have the ultimate effect of Misato getting dressed down by her own superiors instead of her crew getting the same treatment, with said superiors silencing her protests by pointedly reminding her that she's not in a military, but a Mildly Military N.G.O. Superpower. Here, discipline and obedience are secondary to loyalty and pitching in for the team; if she can't accept that, she can quit.

She doesn't. Quit, that is.

edited 4th Jan '18 3:08:58 PM by amitakartok

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7330: Jan 4th 2018 at 4:28:18 PM

OK, we're gonna need a lot of context here. Who is it that Misato has a grudge against, what did they do, what is this "cause" that Misato is allegedly using as an excuse to act on her grudge, and more importantly... why hasn't anyone pointed out that this OC's actions has given those enemies the chance to either come back as bigger threats at the worst time possible and maybe even lead to the heroes being decisively defeated, or pass on acquired information to their superiors/allies that has an equivalent effect?

edited 4th Jan '18 4:28:49 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7331: Jan 5th 2018 at 4:21:10 AM

Who is it that Misato has a grudge against

That's... rather difficult to explain. The OC in question was press-ganged into being an Eva pilot after he jacked one and went on a joyride with it involving Leliel and some time travel. While Kaworu is a messiah figure type, the OC is nothing less than rage incarnate: in combat, he's extremely aggressive and savage, almost monstrous. Even while keeping a hold of himself, he routinely double-taps and dismembers opponents and at one point, he shoots off a ship's engines and pushes it into the nearby planet's atmosphere, causing it to hit the ground at terminal velocity and kill the entire crew which instantly skyrockets his confirmed kills into the triple-digit range - but when he truly loses his shit, he does shit like ripping out the opponent's cockpit and chowing down onit with his Eva, or just plain ripping said opponent in two with his Eva's bare hands.

It would be easy to dismiss him as a mindless berserker - but he's far from it. His anger stems not from anger at the enemy, but anger at himself. You see, he's a Blood Knight who doesn't care about the cause or glory or any of that thing; he just wants to fight - but his Eva is so goddamn OP that nobody can stand against him, frustrating him to no end which he takes out on both the enemy and those around him. He actually doesn't like killing people (he has fun fighting them, but sees killing them as pointless if they can't fight back) but it's all he knows and all he can do. And as is usual in Eva, he also has major daddy issues.

He eventually undergoes character development and mellows out into an Anti-Hero once his "nobody is a Worthy Opponent" frustration is sapped by a six hours long one-on-one duel with Zeruel who is a match for him and has been dealing with the same kind of melancholy for far longer than he did and is thus in an excellent position to give him a pep talk about the virtues of patience; after all, they've both been itching for a good opponent and now they've encountered each other, so good things indeed come to you if you wait. As well as him resolving his family issues and entering a kinda-rocky-but-eventually-pays-off relationship with his wingmate.

what did they do

Another complex issue. Just like in canon, Misato has had personal issues with her father in her youth, eventually culminating in him sending her away - just in time to inadvertently save her life from an Impact. This plunged her into having ambivalent feelings about him: she always hated him but in the end, he saved her life at the cost of his own. She eventually chose to resolve this contradiction by steeling herself to become a merciless avenger who takes down anyone attempting that kind of genocidal bullshit, be they human or Angel. Even if her allies fall or innocents get caught in the crossfire, she doesn't care; instead, she reasons that it's all the more reason for her to keep fighting.

Fun fact: back in their early twenties, Misato was in a relationship with Kaji but broke it off because he saw what she was becoming and tried to steer her away from that path, but Misato had none of it and tossed him out when it became clear that he wasn't going to back down and just accept her as it is, take it or leave it.

The reason why she keeps butting heads with the OC is allegedly because she sees him as a brat who thinks he's hot shit and can do whatever he wants just because he's a good Eva pilot and related to some of her superiors (implying that is his Berserk Button, actually) but is blind to the harsh realities of the world... but in actuality, she sees herself in him in her youth and can't stand it. Meanwhile, the OC sees her as yet another hypocrite adult who thinks she has all the answers while willfully ignoring her own failings.

what is this "cause" that Misato is allegedly using as an excuse to act on her grudge

The cause their Impartial Purpose-Driven Faction is fighting for: protecting humanity from threats both external and internal via generous application of superior firepower at the offenders. Misato and her subordinates are a black ops unit running sabotage raids behind enemy lines because their target is undergoing a major military rearmament in obvious preparations for a war of aggression - but at one point, they get falsely accused of a civilian massacre (a crippled enemy ship deliberately rams a civilian habitat, explicitly gambling on the OC's reputation as The Dreaded to frame him for it) which starts an all-out war at the worst possible time and loses all credibility the organization had with their political benefactors.

why hasn't anyone pointed out that this OC's actions has given those enemies the chance to either come back as bigger threats at the worst time possible and maybe even lead to the heroes being decisively defeated, or pass on acquired information to their superiors/allies that has an equivalent effect?

Because they agree with him...?

The enemy already had access to black box footage and such to observe their capabilities, but it didn't help much. They simply can't keep up with the heroes in terms of tech. And even if they could, they can't build enough of it in the time they have to for them to be everywhere and it takes months to move stuff elsewhere, so they can't respond effectively. They do luck out occasionally because Misato's unit's intel isn't perfect and at one point outright leads them into an ambush only a timely Gunship Rescue keeps them from dying then and there.

That, and gathering combat data against the OC is kinda a lost proposition by that point because the enemy soldiers are so terrified of him that they break ranks and run screaming at the mere sight of his Eva.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7332: Jan 5th 2018 at 9:04:32 AM

Wait, she has a grudge against the OC?! I thought it was against the people he allowed to escape alive, because that's what his rant against her towards the end implied.

She eventually chose to resolve this contradiction by steeling herself to become a merciless avenger who takes down anyone attempting that kind of genocidal bullshit, be they human or Angel.
... So the enemy human faction wants to commit genocide on the protagonists' human faction?

The reason why she keeps butting heads with the OC is allegedly because she sees him as a brat who thinks he's hot shit and can do whatever he wants just because he's a good Eva pilot and related to some of her superiors (implying that is his Berserk Button, actually) but is blind to the harsh realities of the world... but in actuality, she sees herself in him in her youth and can't stand it. Meanwhile, the OC sees her as yet another hypocrite adult who thinks she has all the answers while willfully ignoring her own failings.
... Ah, I don't get this one. Mind elaborating? What sets apart "young Misato" from "current Misato"? Because AFAIU from your explanation, the latter is just as much a With Us or Against Us Knight Templar as the former was (though I think you may be using Knight Templar wrong).

The enemy already had access to black box footage and such to observe their capabilities, but it didn't help much. They simply can't keep up with the heroes in terms of tech. And even if they could, they can't build enough of it in the time they have to for them to be everywhere and it takes months to move stuff elsewhere, so they can't respond effectively. They do luck out occasionally because Misato's unit's intel isn't perfect and at one point outright leads them into an ambush only a timely Gunship Rescue keeps them from dying then and there.

That, and gathering combat data against the OC is kinda a lost proposition by that point because the enemy soldiers are so terrified of him that they break ranks and run screaming at the mere sight of his Eva.

IMO, that is just asking for the writer — namely, you — to subvert that trend in the worst way possible for them by having the enemies get an unexpected stroke of luck in some fashion that ultimately leads to the protagonists and their benefactors being driven to the brink of total defeat, and only a massively herculean effort coupled with a very risky gamble allows them to survive and eventually turn the tide again... although with a distinct feeling that it may be no better than a Pyrrhic Victory.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7333: Jan 5th 2018 at 10:34:39 AM

Wait, she has a grudge against the OC?! I thought it was against the people he allowed to escape alive, because that's what his rant against her towards the end implied.

Both. The OC for reasons stated above and the bad guys for being The Remnant of a SEELE-loyalist faction and thus sharing responsibility in her father's death. The latter is what the OC meant when he called her a bitch with a vendetta.

... So the enemy human faction wants to commit genocide on the protagonists' human faction?

This is taking place after a civil war that shattered the SEELE-controlled One World Order into two successor power blocs: a military junta formed out of The Remnant of the loyalist parts of the old military and a loose federation of everyone else. Both consider each other an illegitimate government, with the junta wanting to bring everyone back into the fold to restore order and the other side wanting to overthrow the junta to weed out the last vestiges of SEELE's rotten ideology. The protagonists are an autonomous faction that's nominally independent but allied with the federation and considered terrorists by the junta, but are constantly under pressure by their own allies to fork over their advanced technology for national defense reasons, which is the sole reason why they hadn't already fulfilled the junta's demands of "stop harboring those terrorists".

After the framing incident above, the protagonists are outright told by their own allies to turn over their stuff or else, seeing how they were the ones who started the war and dragged their allies into it by repeatedly poking the junta with their black ops raids. They refuse on the grounds that they're nobody's mercenaries or arms dealers and are collectively declared personae non grata for refusing to pick a side in the conflict.

What sets apart "young Misato" from "current Misato"?

Bratty teen with daddy issues versus bitter adult hurting others to make herself feel better.

IMO, that is just asking for the writer — namely, you — to subvert that trend in the worst way possible for them by having the enemies get an unexpected stroke of luck in some fashion that ultimately leads to the protagonists and their benefactors being driven to the brink of total defeat, and only a massively herculean effort coupled with a very risky gamble allows them to survive and eventually turn the tide again... although with a distinct feeling that it may be no better than a Pyrrhic Victory.

Elaboration on the Gunship Rescue. The Cool Ship is given false intel by a traitor, gets caught in an ambush by three entire carrier groups and is shot up so badly that Misato and her XO hit the ship's self-destruct switch on the basis that they can't escape, can't afford to let the ship's technology fall into the enemy's hands and the enemy hates them so much that Cold-Blooded Torture and execution would be the least they can expect even if they surrendered, so blowing up the ship under them would be a much quicker and less painful way to go. Except the self-destruct misfires and leaves the ship crippled but intact, leaving them well and truly helpless - until the Cool Ship's two newly completed sister ships suddenly show up with their giant-ass mothership not very far behind, as Kaworu and co. found the traitor and Kaworu decided that they've been fucking around long enough and it's time to clean house.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7334: Jan 6th 2018 at 2:06:27 PM

This is taking place after a civil war that shattered the SEELE-controlled One World Order into two successor power blocs: a military junta formed out of The Remnant of the loyalist parts of the old military and a loose federation of everyone else. Both consider each other an illegitimate government, with the junta wanting to bring everyone back into the fold to restore order and the other side wanting to overthrow the junta to weed out the last vestiges of SEELE's rotten ideology. The protagonists are an autonomous faction that's nominally independent but allied with the federation and considered terrorists by the junta, but are constantly under pressure by their own allies to fork over their advanced technology for national defense reasons, which is the sole reason why they hadn't already fulfilled the junta's demands of "stop harboring those terrorists".

After the framing incident above, the protagonists are outright told by their own allies to turn over their stuff or else, seeing how they were the ones who started the war and dragged their allies into it by repeatedly poking the junta with their black ops raids. They refuse on the grounds that they're nobody's mercenaries or arms dealers and are collectively declared personae non grata for refusing to pick a side in the conflict.

Why do they refuse to pick sides? I can understand them refusing the military junta because it's made up of Seele loyalists, but what about the federation?

Bratty teen with daddy issues versus bitter adult hurting others to make herself feel better.
Ah. So she basically got it all wrong by seeing her younger self in him, when he's actually very different. She judged the book solely by its cover, not bothering to even browse a few pages to confirm her first impression.

Elaboration on the Gunship Rescue. The Cool Ship is given false intel by a traitor, gets caught in an ambush by three entire carrier groups and is shot up so badly that Misato and her XO hit the ship's self-destruct switch on the basis that they can't escape, can't afford to let the ship's technology fall into the enemy's hands and the enemy hates them so much that Cold-Blooded Torture and execution would be the least they can expect even if they surrendered, so blowing up the ship under them would be a much quicker and less painful way to go. Except the self-destruct misfires and leaves the ship crippled but intact, leaving them well and truly helpless - until the Cool Ship's two newly completed sister ships suddenly show up with their giant-ass mothership not very far behind, as Kaworu and co. found the traitor and Kaworu decided that they've been fucking around long enough and it's time to clean house.
Pfffttt, that's tame. I'm thinking having something happen after that, where even with Kaworu and the mega-mothership on their side, the OC pulling that stunt once again bites him and everyone else in the ass big time because unknown to any of them, one of the mooks had intel on him that helps their superiors locate and take control of a Ragnarok-proof alien superweapon, with which they basically slaughter the heroes' forces until they make a last-ditch, ultra-risky gambit that allows them to have someone slip in and pull a Heroic Sacrifice to blow up the whole thing. The end result: Over 50%-70% of the heroes' total military force wiped out in a matter of mere days/weeks.

edited 6th Jan '18 2:07:09 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7335: Jan 6th 2018 at 4:45:32 PM

Why do they refuse to pick sides? I can understand them refusing the military junta because it's made up of Seele loyalists, but what about the federation?

The federation is controlled primarily by corporate interests who want the Order's mothership because its construction capabilities are frankly ridiculous. It's basically to capital ships what aircraft carriers are to carrier-launched fighters - and while aircraft carriers have onboard machine shops for repairing their planes, this thing has nanotech fabrication bays that can shit out entire fleets within weeks by disassembling entire asteroids on the atomic level to get the raw materials. And now consider the sheer quantity of amenities, prefab buildings and electronics that kind of production speed could make, all of it of quality far above what human technology can produce (which is why the Order don't even use money anymore: everyone can have anything fabricated precisely to order at any time, so wealth is pointless). Anyone who controls that could singlehandedly destroy the federation's economy and drive literally everyone out of business between Zerg Rushing the rest of humanity with literally more ships than the opposition has the ammunition to fight back with. It's like giving a Stone Age civilization an infinite, unbreakable 3D printer.

Corporate interests want not just a piece of that pie, but the whole pie. Back in SEELE's day, the govt kept them in check with threat of force (read: sending lobbyists to gulags) but now that they're no longer around... to use a saying from around here, money talks, dog barks. The Order is not forking over their mothership because, as arrogant as it sounds, the federation is not worthy to have the power to unilaterally set the future of humanity at their fingertips. They do share some technology with the other factions a few decades later (namely, a massively improved version of the Portal Network), but they share it with everyone. Including the junta. They're not taking sides because they want to help all of humanity.

She judged the book solely by its cover, not bothering to even browse a few pages to confirm her first impression.

She'd have to browse quite a bit further than that. I fully expect some of my audience to call the OC an edgelord like they did with Rei, especially when it comes to his daddy issues. Because when he's properly introduced, he's only a few insults away from turning into a Self-Made Orphan. He's that resentful of his father (and to a lesser extent, his mother), but his sisters and cousin are the Morality Chain that keep him from fully flying off the deep end, the recognition he ears from his own side for his stunts as an Eva pilot is what starts pulling him away from the abyss, getting a girlfriend and making up with his parents is what pulls him up for good and in the end, choosing to give all of that up to save humanity from being Ret-Gone is what completes his Coming of Age Story journey from Nominal Hero to The Unfettered who retains his Blood Knight attitude but works for the greater good.

Pfffttt, that's tame.

While this whole thing is going on, Angels are marauding in the outlying human worlds and their boss eventually decides to stop fucking around as well, showing up to attack the federation's seat of power in person.

You can imagine the locals' reaction when a few months after they basically exiled the one faction of Angel-killing specialists humanity has, they walk out of their homes, look up and see an Angel dwarfing the sun. Mind you, the biggest Angel seen in the previous war was the size of the Moon. This one is bigger than a star and an Absolute Xenophobe Omnicidal Maniac whose sole reason for wanting to kill humanity is that they exist.

Kaworu and co. can't really afford to go fight a David Versus Goliath war against the junta because they've got bigger problems to worry about. Like making sure there's a humanity left to save. They go back to slapping down the junta once they're done with the Angels because the federation's navy gets decimated in the battle and the junta tries to exploit the opportunity to move in for the kill.

In the aftermath, with both power blocks licking their wounds and the Order's own forces in need of a general overhaul, Kaworu decides that if they're not going to join either power bloc because both are pricks who aren't taking them seriously, they might as well go all the way with the spring cleaning and become a sovereign state in their own right. Granted, a state of militarized Space Nomads, but still.

helps their superiors locate and take control of a Ragnarok-proof alien superweapon

...interesting. I was having trouble coming up with post-2100 plot but someone other than the Order getting their hands on advanced technology to munch over will do nicely. Thanks for the suggestion.

edited 6th Jan '18 5:04:09 PM by amitakartok

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7336: Jan 8th 2018 at 7:02:23 AM

The federation is controlled primarily by corporate interests who want the Order's mothership because its construction capabilities are frankly ridiculous. It's basically to capital ships what aircraft carriers are to carrier-launched fighters - and while aircraft carriers have onboard machine shops for repairing their planes, this thing has nanotech fabrication bays that can shit out entire fleets within weeks by disassembling entire asteroids on the atomic level to get the raw materials. And now consider the sheer quantity of amenities, prefab buildings and electronics that kind of production speed could make, all of it of quality far above what human technology can produce (which is why the Order don't even use money anymore: everyone can have anything fabricated precisely to order at any time, so wealth is pointless). Anyone who controls that could singlehandedly destroy the federation's economy and drive literally everyone out of business between Zerg Rushing the rest of humanity with literally more ships than the opposition has the ammunition to fight back with. It's like giving a Stone Age civilization an infinite, unbreakable 3D printer.

Corporate interests want not just a piece of that pie, but the whole pie. Back in SEELE's day, the govt kept them in check with threat of force (read: sending lobbyists to gulags) but now that they're no longer around... to use a saying from around here, money talks, dog barks. The Order is not forking over their mothership because, as arrogant as it sounds, the federation is not worthy to have the power to unilaterally set the future of humanity at their fingertips. They do share some technology with the other factions a few decades later (namely, a massively improved version of the Portal Network), but they share it with everyone. Including the junta. They're not taking sides because they want to help all of humanity.

Well, how was I supposed to know that? You didn't even remotely hint to the fact that the federation is practically a corporatocracy. Yeesh, besides the independent merc group, it's Evil Versus Evil, only the flavors of evil are "military dictatorship that aims to essentially genocide humanity in the name of an Ancient Conspiracy's Assimilation Plot" and "subjugate the masses to the unchecked authority of greed-driven megacorps with little to no sense of morality whatsoever".

While this whole thing is going on, Angels are marauding in the outlying human worlds and their boss eventually decides to stop fucking around as well, showing up to attack the federation's seat of power in person.
That is... pretty irrelevant to what I was talking about.

You can imagine the locals' reaction when a few months after they basically exiled the one faction of Angel-killing specialists humanity has, they walk out of their homes, look up and see an Angel dwarfing the sun. Mind you, the biggest Angel seen in the previous war was the size of the Moon. This one is bigger than a star and an Absolute Xenophobe Omnicidal Maniac whose sole reason for wanting to kill humanity is that they exist.
<proceeds to laugh loudly and derogatorily at the feddie leaders' stupidity>

...interesting. I was having trouble coming up with post-2100 plot but someone other than the Order getting their hands on advanced technology to munch over will do nicely. Thanks for the suggestion.
<grins> I'm helping!

edited 8th Jan '18 7:04:53 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7337: Jan 8th 2018 at 10:00:41 AM

<proceeds to laugh loudly and derogatorily at the feddie leaders' stupidity>

...yyyeeaaahhh, I don't have a high opinion of democratic governments after the past couple of years. Autocratic governments don't give the common folk any say, yes, but at least they are honest about it.


Speaking of which... a more pressing issue I have is how to handle Keel. In the main story, he's just a cryptic Devil in Plain Sight who gets zero development whatsoever - then suddenly betrays the protags when they get vague and unspecified evidence about him being a bad guy, sends in a zillion of soldiers to kill everyone then promptly nukes his own troops, then finishes off by killing off over 99% of humanity to cover it all up. And considers the near extinction of humanity at his orders a mere setback SEELE can still come back from. Then he kidnaps Asuka and subjects her to some Playing with Syringes. Then he's captured and executed. All without ever giving him any kind of character development.

I don't know about you, guys, but to me... it stinks of Giant Space Flea from Nowhere. Especially in the planned alternate timeline where he pulls a You Have Outlived Your Usefulness on the entire rest of SEELE, throws in his lot with the protags and becomes an expy of Samuel Hayden - compared to which his Flat Character status in the primary timeline is borderline Out of Character.

So I was thinking... what if Keel isn't the one who backstabs the protags in the main story? It's already established that some of his fellow SEELE members are fanatical enough to order and carry out assassinations of scientists whose research contradicts SEELE's dogma, completely without asking the others. So... what if the backstabbing is caused by one of these fanatics overreacting to the protags having dirt on them and forges orders from Keel (as he's the only guy in the government who can boss around the commander-in-chief) to execute the attack? Keel happens to be offworld at the time, so he's not available to call for verification and consequently there's no one to countermand the political officers from going ahead with the fake orders.

Thus everything goes to hell in a handbasket: the troops march into the city and begin systematically destroying everything, Asuka tries fighting them back, Zeruel shows up... and at this point the conspirators panic and use Keel's nuclear briefcase to nuke the city in a futile attempt to take out Zeruel - which immediately blows their cover because since Keel is offworld, he cannot possibly have launched the nuclear attack, therefore someone in the government just massively overstepped his jurisdiction and forced the military to commit genocide (the nuclear briefcase is capable of autonomously arming and launching whatever delivery system a nuclear warhead is mounted onto without the operator crew being able to do anything about it). Which, in turn, promptly causes a significant portion of the military, fresh off the horror that they were just forced to nuke civilians, to go "FUCK. THAT. NOISE." and declare martial law to find out what the hell is going on.

Which causes the political officers to attempt to restore discipline in the classic way, which causes the military to lose their shit and escalate to a full coup d' etat once the protags decide to take a leap of faith and pass the dirt they have on SEELE on to the commander-in-chief.

Is this a better scenario? Optionally, Keel returned to Earth for damage control (read: negotiate with the commander-in-chief about jointly fucking up the rest of SEELE before they do even more damage) as soon as he found out what's happening but got caught up in Third Impact for his efforts. I just feel this would be really effectively subvert audience expectations of Keel as the Bigger Bad carried over from canon.

edited 8th Jan '18 10:04:05 AM by amitakartok

EvaUnit01 Fandom Heretic Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7339: Jan 10th 2018 at 6:58:47 PM

...yyyeeaaahhh, I don't have a high opinion of democratic governments after the past couple of years. Autocratic governments don't give the common folk any say, yes, but at least they are honest about it.
Democratic systems are only as strong as the safety measures we build into them. Part of the reason why the UK and the US are currently stuck with horribly bad leaderships is because 1) the crazy major party brainwashed huge swaths of the population with decades of propaganda filled with Blatant Lies, and 2) the sane major party in each country got so complacent about the foolproofness of the system against stupidity that they did little to nothing about the aforementioned.

Contrast Germany and France, which are doing quite fine.


RE Keel: Yeah, that seems like a huge improvement. Besides, killing off 99% of humanity? Exactly how does the species manage to recover from that such that your two-blocs scenario would be realized? Because that should reduce the population to anywhere from tens of millions to tens of thousands, depending on how big the pre-wipeout population was.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
EvaUnit01 Fandom Heretic Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Fandom Heretic
#7340: Jan 10th 2018 at 10:00:51 PM

Well, humanity in SCE is already an interstellar civilization...

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7341: Jan 11th 2018 at 3:16:19 AM

Indeed. About half of the 1997-era population was killed off from a combination of Second Impact itself, humanity having a zero birth rate between 2004 and 2018, humanity having to share their planet with several invasive predator species that are not afraid of them like most terrestrial predators are, plus the occupation government itself generously adding to the bodycount themselves by massacring entire villages that are found to be aiding the resistance. The time period between 2018 and 2042 had a major baby boom, during which SEELE ran a forced relocation program that shuffled a couple million people offworld to ensure that if another catastrophe strikes, there will be enough people left to start over. A fairly large number of kids were already born offworld.

After Third Impact rolled by on December 31, 2042, only the colonies were left. Exact population numbers are unknown, but it's somewhere in the low tens of millions. More than enough to maintain genetic viability, but that's not the issue there. The issue is that a significant portion of the colonies were not completely self-sufficient yet and relied on Earth as their breadbasket. The federation didn't have much problems in that regard as their seat of power was the most developed colony that was already self-sufficient and had the industrial infrastructure to expand their agricultural one into producing a surplus for exportation to affiliated worlds, but the junta, who were camped out on the outer colonies, had millions of starving civilians to feed and consequently couldn't go on a full offensive during the First Succession War because they needed the troops back at home to keep the food riots under control.

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7342: Jan 12th 2018 at 5:11:05 AM

Silly idea I had for SCE.

When Misato's ship gets trashed in the aforementioned ambush, it receives a full overhaul and the hull number changes from AC-099 to AC-099-A.

Whad do you say, Kaiser? Do you think it's too, um... obvious of a nod?

edited 12th Jan '18 5:11:57 AM by amitakartok

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7343: Jan 12th 2018 at 5:31:55 AM

Not Kaiser, but FWIW, I have zero idea what the reference is.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7344: Jan 12th 2018 at 6:13:36 AM

It's a double reference to Star Trek, actually.

  • AC is meant to evoke the US Navy's hull numbering scheme: pre-nuclear aircraft carriers' hull numbers start with CV for Carrier Vessel, nuclear carriers' start with CN for Carrier Vessel - Nuclear. AC here stands for Assault Carrier, ie. The Battlestar.
  • 099 is a meta joke for Star Trek. When the ST-100 atmospheric test flight prototype of the Space Shuttles was built, NASA asked the public for a name and received an overwhelming number of requests from Star Trek fans to name it Enterprise, so they did. Originally, the ST-100 was supposed to be rebuilt into being space-capable after the ST-101 Columbia's first few flights, but design changes in the interim resulted in NASA figuring that it'd be cheaper to mothball the Enterprise and retrofit structural test frame STA-099 into a Shuttle instead, which became the ST-099 Challenger and went on to fly the missions the Enterprise would've been sent to instead.note 
  • A is a direct reference to the Enterprise A, which inherited the original NCC-1701 Enterprise's designation with an -A suffix for NCC-1701-A.

edited 12th Jan '18 6:16:05 AM by amitakartok

EvaUnit01 Fandom Heretic Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Fandom Heretic
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7346: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:46:19 PM

You know, I've been mulling ideas about giving But Not Too Foreign-style Race Lifts to the canonical Eva pilots besides Shinji and Touji (because we need native 100% Japanese kids to contrast against the "gaijin" ones) for the sake of increasing the ethnic diversity of the Eva pilot Cast Herd without adding new characters (be they all-original OCs or borrowing some of the concept characters from that one supplemental artbook).

My thoughts:

  • Asuka: In addition to being part German, make her part Norwegian/Swedish/Danish through her mother.
  • Mari: Her ambiguously "British" heritage gets fleshed out to a mixture of English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish ancestries.
  • Mana: Make her part Hispanic, with a slightly "olive"-colored skin tone to match.
  • Mayumi: Make her part African, with a brownish skin tone akin to Nadia's. Bonus points if she's also really tall for her age.
  • Kaworu: Though he doesn't look different, he's part mixed-Russian-and-Ukrainian.

Yes, I know, Mayumi is not an Eva pilot. But I count her among the Cast Herd nonetheless for convenience's sake, because almost all of Shinji's serious love interests that are his age are in said Cast Herd.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7347: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:55:22 PM

[up][up]For reference, the ship in question is visually similar to the Wunder, but with three major differences. First, there's no antenna array on top. Second, the ribbed structure on the bottom is metallic and solid (though still ribbed). Third, there are a multitude of spikes all over the sides that can unfold into sail-like structures that sprout giant wings of iridescent particles to make the ship move a helluva lot faster than anything its size category should be capable of (it's basically a crazily high-powered Bussard ramjet that foregoes nuclear fusion in favor of magnetically accelerating the exhaust to near-relativistic speeds, making it highly luminous and highly dangerous). Like, imagine a tank accelerating and handling like a sports car.

There are 4 configurations I came up with so far:

  • Flight I - 2057, prototyped on the AC-099. 2 Eva hangars in the front that open downwards and store one Eva each face-down, 1 smaller hangar in the rear of the midsection's top. 2 x triple-barreled kinetic gun turrets (think World War-era battleship turrets) above and behind the front hangars, 2 x double-barreled particle beam cannons above and behind the kinetic ones, 4 x torpedo launch tubes above the front hangars, 8 x 4-tube VLS arrays on top of the midsection above the rear hangar, plus a flak autocannon array all over the hull for destroying incoming missiles. Has a special electromagnetic hull plating capable of repelling charged particle beams if struck at a shallow angle, but does nothing against solid ordinance and the composition of the beam has to be known ahead of time because if the particles' magnetic polarity doesn't match the hull's, it attracts the beam instead of repelling it. Design has major blind spots on the bottom and the rear and is undergunned for close-range combat despite its mobility explicitly being intended for it, so the AC-099 is the only one ever built with this configuration.
  • Flight II - 2058, prototyped on the AC-100 and the AC-101, further refined on the AC-099-A. Adds 4 x quad-barreled beam pulsar turrets to the top and bottom for each wing root for broadside fire, removing the close-range weakness and partially covering the ventral blind spot. VLS array expanded to 14 x 4-tube launchers with upgraded guidance packages that allow the missiles to actively evade enemy attempts at hardkill interception. Kinetic turret ammunition magazines and autoloaders modified to allow switching between regular and anti-AT shells on the fly. Rear hangar expanded to allow the ship to carry a third Eva.
  • Flight III - in service by 2068. Adds 2 x ventral double-barreled particle beam cannons below the front hangars and 2 x rear double-barreled particle beam cannons above and below the tail, completely filling in the blind spots plaguing the earlier versions. Front hangars now open to the sides so as to not cross the new ventral turrets' line of fire and the Eva holding frames have also been shifted 90° to face the new hatch. Upgraded conventional engines from 3-nozzle to 7-nozzle and added two new Aeon drive arrays to each side of the tail, aimed outwards to keep the other arrays from deflecting engine exhaust into the tail during sharper turns.
  • Flight IV - improved Flight III based on combat data gathered by the Morningstar escort fleet. Supplements flak array with a flak laser grid to solve the Flight III's problem of the flak array running out of ammunition during extended combat in target rich environments. Supplements the VLS array with 2 x 8-barrel beam tracer cannon arrays located on the top port and starboard of the midsection.


[up]Funny you say that. Few years ago, I toyed with the idea of Mana being ethnically Chinese on one parent's side and being bullied in elementary school because of it.

edited 13th Jan '18 4:59:23 PM by amitakartok

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7348: Jan 14th 2018 at 4:48:50 AM

I was actually thinking of making a purely human AU version of Rei be descended from Chinese and Korean immigrants to Japan. It would give an additional reason for her to be ostracized beyond her asocial nature.

edited 14th Jan '18 4:49:53 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#7349: Jan 14th 2018 at 5:17:37 AM

Great minds think alike...

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#7350: Jan 14th 2018 at 5:25:26 AM

On the other hand, I could see a strong case being made for making canon!Shinji part-Korean/Chinese on his father's side to add a history of realistic ostracism/bullying.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

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