YMMV / Pokémon Diamond and Pearl


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  • Accidental Innuendo:
    • In Platinum, you get a villa. You can buy furniture for it. When you mix records, sometimes your friends will find a TV program that is examining furniture you have. Sometimes they say that you have a "nice rack".
    • Regigigas can't get it going because of its Slow Start!
  • Alternative Character Interpretation: Is Cyrus evil and twisted beyond redemption or is he a tortured soul who just needs serious therapy?
  • Awesome Music: Most of Sinnoh's soundtrack consists of relaxing piano and smooth jazz to contrast Hoenn's majestic trumpets and horns, and many of the songs will change up a bit if you're playing at night. Special mention goes to Route 216 and 217, which remain fan favorites.
  • Base-Breaking Character:
    • Barry is either Adorkable and a worthy rival or incredibly annoying and not nearly as badass as Blue and Silver.
    • Garchomp. You either love it for being an Uber Badass dragon, or hate it for being one of the biggest Game Breakers in the franchise (at least until Gen VI came around).
    • Lucario is either given too much attention or just out and out awesome.
    • Arceus. Many don't take too kindly to the notion that it's supposed to be God, as it makes other deified legendaries look obsolete. Its stats, ability and move pool are certainly worthy of praise as god-like, though.
    • The number of Legendaries introduced in these games garners enthusiasm from half the fan base for a slew of such powerful Pokémon and criticism from the other half for making the Legendary status seem less special.
    • The Bronzor line. On the one hand, they have very high defenses and their Steel/Psychic typing made them weak to either Fire or Ground (depending on ability) note  until Gen VI. On the other hand, they're just another Animate Inanimate Object Pokémon, and some fans don't cotton to those. There's also the fact that Steel losing resistances to Dark and Ghost in Gen VI and the constant (yet unnecessary) nerfs towards Psychic completely shattered its viability.
    • The evolutions of previous Gen Pokémon (especially Gen 1 Pokémon like Rhydon) got heavy flak when first introduced, often called unnecessary and abominations of the older Mons, not helping that some of them evolve via trading while holding a specifc item and are outclassed by their pre-evolutions after the introduction of Eviolite in Gen V. Over time, more people joined the side that recognized them as redemptions to Mons considered mediocre to forgettable beforehand, although some of their visual designs are still controversial. Even when there are plenty of them have good designs and competitive performance, the inevitable Power Creep catches on to them quick and the controversial ones have already overshadowed the others to the point of souring players' reception towards this mechanic. This ends up causing only one cross-gen evolution to exist after this generation (and it is Eevee, a definite fan-favorite regardless).
    • Cynthia is either a badass Champion with a near perfect-team who also has an endearing personality or given too much spotlight considering her constant appearances in HeartGold and SoulSilver and Gen V games despite some other characters getting as much if not even more appearances than her in subsequent games.
    • Team Galactic appears to be one of the more controversial group of antagonists. Some view them as an entertaining team with a Crazy Awesome goal led by the decently written threat Cyrus. Others view them as Generic Doomsday Villains with incoherent motives, with Cyrus in particular coming under fire from being very confusing and having a weak Freudian Excuse. At the very least, they seem to get less unanimous scorn than Team Flare.
  • Breather Boss: Though how easy they are varies slightly depending on which version you're playing, due to the drastically different teams of some Gym Leaders.
    • Byron. Pretty much all of the starters have an easy time against him, considering how they're very likely to be in their fully evolved forms by then. Torterra gets Earthquake upon evolving, Infernape just spams Close Combat/Flamethrower/Fire Blast, and while Empoleon may struggle with the Magneton that he's packing in Platinum, Surf (which you need to get to Canalave in the first place) can still KO his other Pokémon easily.
    • Candice, due to being the Ice-type Gym Leader. She's slightly harder in Diamond and Pearl where she has a Medicham for some reason, but it's extremely frail so it'll only be a problem if whatever you're trying to beat her with is weak to Fighting attacks.
    • Nothing on Volkner's team is really threatening in any of the games, though he's slightly harder in Diamond and Pearl by virtue of having 2 Pokémon that aren't Electric-types. This is especially easy with a Torterra who can just spam Earthquake to win.
    • Elite Four Member Aaron has 2 Crutch Characters on his team and is pretty much an auto-win for the player. He's slightly less so in Platinum since they've been replaced with 2 legitimately threatening Mons that can also take a hit, though he's definitely still the easiest Elite 4 member since Bug has so many common weaknesses. However, he has a Drapion, which despite being a bug and even pre-evolving from a bug, is only weak to Ground types, something that a normal Bug type resists.
  • Broken Base:
    • Stealth Rock. Competitive players love it for keeping borderline Game Breakers in check and having universal application, while casuals hate it because it's freaking everywhere and makes Mons like Charizard bad (or worse than they already were in Charizard's case).
    • Whether there should be remakes for the Sinnoh games or not. Those in favor of remakes say that they would redeem the games' most significant flaws, especially the infamously slow pace of the game mechanics, and/or it would be nice to play through Sinnoh with later series additions like Mega Evolution and Z-Moves. Others are against the idea, saying that the Sinnoh games are already modern by current series' standards and that the "remake series" should end with OmegaRuby/AlphaSapphire, itself a divisive remake for not expanding as much as HeartGold/SoulSilver did.
  • Casual/Competitive Conflict: The release of Diamond and Pearl caused this to go into full swing, as TPCI started doing the VGC (Video Game Championship) Tournaments on a consistent basis from then on. This indirectly also caused Smogon's ruleset to get more exposure as more people started getting into the competitive scene and were directed there.
  • Complacent Gaming Syndrome: The move Stealth Rock in the Metagame. In competitive battling, it's almost required that you have both a Pokémon who can set up Stealth Rock and a Pokémon who can remove it with Rapid Spin (when your opponent inevitably does get it up).
  • Contested Sequel: Gen IV is probably where competitive gaming really started to hit its stride, with the massive number of TMs and tutor moves, several items that would be impractical in casual play (ex. Choice Specs and Scarf, EV-gain enhancing Power items), the Physical/Special split, and evolutions for many neglected Pokémon. The more casual players, however, weren't so pleased with the lack of innovation to regular gameplay, the aforementioned evolutions to old Pokémon (though they've been received much more positively as time passed), the large number of legendaries viewed as dulling the concept (though Sinnoh's theme was mythology), and (more so in Diamond and Pearl than in Platinum) the poor frame rate slowing down the adventure.
  • Critical Dissonance: They are the highest-selling Pokemon DS games and have received glowing reviews from critics, yet a sizable portion of the fandom views them the worst games in the franchise (though Platinum tends to get better reception).
  • Crosses the Line Twice: A variation from the fandom regarding Drifblim, with Hilarious in Hindsight thrown into the mix. Nicknaming either it or its prevo "Hindenburg" (and having either one of them with the Explosion attack) was already a pretty common joke, but then they got an exclusive Dream World Ability, Flare Boost, that increases their Special Attack while Burnedand right in step with the games that debut the series's equivalent of America, too. Oh, the Humanity!....
  • Disappointing Last Level: After the interesting battles with Team Galactic, Cyrus and the version legendary, you go back to the same old Pokémon Excuse Plot of collecting badges (Well, one badge) and fighting the Elite Four. Along with Forced Level-Grinding, probably one of the worst Victory Roads in the series and the hardest Champion battle.
  • Draco in Leather Pants: Cyrus; the fangirls have latched onto him and won't let go, both in and out of game. Game Freak themselves seemed to want the players to feel sorry for him by adding his grandfather to Platinum and telling us about his sad, oppressive past. Of course, not too much, since we still want to beat him and put a stop to his plans...
  • Ear Worm: The Game Corner's theme is incredibly catchy. It has a rave-music feel to it, and if you're going for 100% completion, you'll be spending a lot of time listening to it trying to earn all of the prizes. As an added bonus, it also incorporates a bit of the original Kanto Game Corner's theme.
  • Ensemble Darkhorse:
    • Cynthia is easily one of the most popular Champions in the series, helpfully guiding the player through the region at several points, detailing the deep lore of Sinnoh's mythology, and having a powerful team that many regard as the most challenging Champion fight in the series. She made several appearances in later generations.
    • Looker of the International Police is well-liked. It helps that he bears some resemblance to David Tennant of Doctor Who fame. He has also become a recurring character, with each consequent generation featuring him in the post-game.
    • Riley is fairly popular, at least compared to the fellow Trainers who partner up with you at certain points in the game. It helps that he's a major Bishōnen (as well as that his very close resemblance to a plot-important character in the eighth anime movie has spawned many Epileptic Trees).
    • Staraptor, for having an awesome design, great stats, one of the few Flying-types with access to Close Combat and being very easy to raise and use.
    • Garchomp became this after its Rough Skin ability was released, allowing it to be used in standard competitive play without being a Game Breaker. It's one of the most beloved and popular pseudo-legendaries in the series for being an overly tough and manly combination of various concepts such as sharks, cave-dwelling dragons, jet planes and dinosaurs and for being consistently good in competitive play, and even earned itself a playable spot in Pokkén Tournament.
    • Electivire, despite its questionable use in the metagame, has proven quite popular compared to other evolutions. Its design is quite appealing, and its move pool is still noticeably large compared to other Electric-types.
    • Gallade, another evolutionary option for the popular Ralts family. It lost attention when Gardevoir received the Fairy-type and a Mega Evolution, but receiving its own Mega Evolution later has helped it a little.
    • Weavile, for having a cool design and being very useful in battle. The Physical/Special split helped it a lot too.
    • Kricketune is popular because of how amusing its cry is.
  • Epileptic Trees: Following the debut of the Ultra Beasts in Pokémon Sun and Moon, many fans are theorising that the similarly extradimensional and eldritch-looking Dialga, Palkia, Giratina and Arceus are connected in some way to them and/or Ultra Space, with many expecting possible remakes to retcon them into being Ultra Beasts themselves.
  • Even Better Sequel:
    • Despite a majority of the fanbase having mixed feelings in general towards these games, they're still an improvement over R/S/E. One of the reasons why is that you no longer have to catch Pokémon to complete the region's Pokedex; you just have to look for them.
    • It also helps that it brought back elements that Gen 3 removed (ex. time more noticeable than simply through berry farming and Shoal Cave) and removed most of Gen 3's Scrappy Mechanics.
    • Platinum is this to the original pair for fixing the frame rate, expanding the Regional Dex, and adding several features, like the Battleground to rematch Gym Leaders and a full-fledged Battle Frontier as opposed to just a Battle Tower.
  • Evil is Cool: Cyrus may have been beyond redemption, but some find him to be badass.
  • Evil Is Sexy: Pretty much all the Team Galactic members (with the exception of Charon) are really hot. Cyrus is an unusual case because he isn't especially good-looking, yet he still manages to be very attractive in other ways.
  • Fandom Rivalry: With the Hoenn fanbase. This may be mainly due to both regions obviously is better; such as the protagonists, the rivals, trumpets or jazz, Secret Bases or the Underground, Steven or Cynthia, Gardevoir or Lopunny, Mega Rayquaza or Arceus, ORAS versions of Courtney and Shelly to Mars and Jupiter to name a few.
  • Fanon: While Riley's age is unknown, he's often assumed to be several years older than Roark, due to Byron initially choosing him over Roark to be the Oreburgh Gym Leader. It helps that Byron himself says he doesn't know how old Riley is. Those same in-game statements are also used as evidence that Riley is a close friend of Roark and Byron, to the point where it's common to depict the three of them as a family in fan works.
  • Fashion-Victim Villain: Team Galactic has this weird Atom Punk theme with their costumes and hair that looks so out place because no one else in the game dresses like that. It's probably not the worst example of this to come out of Pokémon, though. Not helping Team Galactic's case is the fact that they frequently get called out on their fashion sense in-game. Several NPCs call them "space men", and a particularly humorous example occurs when Rowan includes it in his "The Reason You Suck" Speech.
  • Franchise Original Sin:
    • The areas where you would travel with the Stat Trainers were the first instances where more than one wild Pokemon could show up in a fight. In such occasions, you were forbidden from using any Balls until only one wild Pokemon was left. Aside from the possibility of your partner knocking out the Pokemon you intended to spare for catching, it wasn't that big a deal... until the S.O.S. battles in Pokémon Sun and Moon, which can become downright infuriating when the Pokemon that you're trying to catch constantly calls in a new partner right after you knock out the previous one.
    • Many people criticized the Kami trio for looking alike, but overlooked how the lake trio are even more similar to each other as they have the exact same typing and coverage. This persists even when the Kami trio gained Therian formes and became more distinct from each other.
  • Fridge Brilliance: Has own page here.
  • Game-Breaking Bug: The online trading concept solves a major problem with earlier games in the series (being unable to complete the Pokedex if you didn't know any other players in real life), but has its own problems such as lacking the ability to filter existing trade offers by common categories such as excluding legendary Pokemon or listing only Mons you actually possess. It will also only display up to seven offers at a time. This means that if you search for particular normal Mons you'll often end up with a pile of completely unusable offers of people trying to trade sundry common Mons for legendaries.
  • Good Bad Bugs:
    • If a Pokémon attacks with a move that has had its accuracy increased to 100% via No Guard or weather (for Thunder and Blizzard), there is a chance about equal to the amount accuracy has been boosted that Protect will be bypassed (exact percentages are unknown, but moves that are already Always Accurate Attacks like Aerial Ace will never bypass). Fixed in Platinum.
    • If you avoid the game-breaking part of it, the Acid Rain glitch. It makes every weather active at once, causing everything to take damage four times per turn from the Sandstorm + Hail combination even if they are immune to one of them, makes Pokémon with weather-dependent healing abilities like Ice Body heal four times per turn instead, allows for 100% Thunders and Blizzards, and ignores SolarBeam's charge turn while also cutting its power in half.
    • The Mimic Glitch in the Japanese versions of Diamond and Pearl lets you get any move on any Pokémon capable of learning Mimic.
    • If a Pokémon with a Choice item uses Pursuit on a target that's switching out in the Japanese version of Diamond and Pearl, the Pursuit user is allowed to switch their move.
    • The Surf Glitch in the Japanese version allows you to Surf in Elite Four Aaron's room due to an oversight. While Surfing on solid ground is hilarious on its own, this glitch has a practical purpose; it lets you get Darkrai and Shaymin without needing their special distribution item. You do this by surfing through the void to reach their overworld locations of Newmoon Island or the Flower Paradise and keeping track of your location via the pedometer app on the Pokétch.
    • You can fight a normal trainer instead of Tower Tycoon Palmer for the first streak of 20 in the Battle Tower, though the trainer will still use Palmer's party of Mons and they'll only give 1 BP instead of 20. This can be done by selecting the "Rest" option, then "No" instead of "Keep Going" just before the fight.
    • It's possible to ignore the "6 Mons every 24 hours" restriction of the Pal Park by tricking the game with another Gen III cart.
    • Fire Fang hits through Wonder Guard due to an oversight.
    • Every use of the move Facade will cause the user's sprite to move up one pixel, eventually causing it to disconnect from the lower part of the screen.
    • You could use the GTS to force evolution of trade-evolving Pokémon. After placing the Mon (and any item required for the evolution) in the GTS for trade, you trade for something else and retrieve the first one. They will have evolved when you get them back. The shut down of all the Gen IV and V online servers makes this impossible nowadays.
    • The Rage glitch can get Ditto to permanently learn any move that an opponent's Mon as long as they've used Rage, which lets it pass down any eligible Egg move when breeding with a female of any species and lets it get Super Ribbons.
  • Growing the Beard:
    • This is the Generation that introduced the Physical/Special split, which is considered one of, if not the, most important additions in the franchise's history and allowed a ton of Pokémon to become more useful since they could use STAB attacks that worked off their better attacking stat. This is most notable for Dark-types since almost all of them were physical attackers but their STAB attacks were all special before the split, gimping their ability to deal with the Psychic-types they were meant to handle.
    • In general, Gen IV is when the metagame began to present much more diverse strategies. The Physical/Special split gave many Pokémon more options to choose from, as Smogon, during the previous three generations, would generally give most Pokémon one or two suggestions for a movepool, while most now have several. The selection of moves was greatly expanded because of the TM list increasing from 50 to 92 and the number of moves that a Move Tutor could teach was much higher than before (look at a Pokémon's moveset from Gens I-III, then compare it to the Gen IV moveset). Types noted for a lack of good moves received redemption during this generation, like Bullet Punch and Iron Head for Steel-types, Wood Hammer and Leaf Storm for Grass-types or X-Scissor and U-Turn for Bug-types. Lastly, there were more competitively viable hold items; the stall-oriented Gen II metagame only used Leftovers, and Gen III saw some use with the Choice Band and stat-increasing Berries consumed at low HP. Gen IV introduced the Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Expert Belt, Focus Sash, Toxic/Flame Orb (to take advantage of Facade and abilities that activate from Standard Status Effects) and Berries that weaken types (ex. Giving Garchomp a Yache Berry to weaken Ice-type attacks or Gyarados a Wacan Berry to weaken Electric-types attacks).
    • This Generation was the first in the series to have real online support, a huge game changer in how other players can interact with each other. Rather then having to know people who also played the games to help you collect and battle (or buying several systems and games for yourself), you now can trade and battle with others through the internet (provided that you had access to decent Wifi).
  • Genius Bonus: Empoleon is the same height as Napoleon Bonaparte, and in Japan is named "Emperte".
  • Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • Ho Yay:
    • Volkner/Flint.
    • Candice and Maylene, especially in Platinum.
    • Dawn/Cynthia.
    • Mars/Jupiter has a hint of Foe Yay to it.
  • Internet Backdraft:
    • The subject of Stealth Rock seems to be getting a bit of this. It doesn't help now that it's really easy to get in HeartGold and SoulSilver.
    • If you like the Ponyta line, never mention them in any Sinnoh-related threads. It won't get pretty.
  • Just Here for Godzilla: The Legendaries of this generation, particularly the Dragon Trio and Darkrai, are well-loved by the fanbase. However, most of the new non-Legendary Pokémon suffered from over-complicated designs and poor stats, except for a few such as Lucario, Garchomp and the previous-gen evolutions.
  • It's the Same, Now It Sucks:
    • Fans are disappointed that the Sinnoh Victory Road is too similar to Hoenn's, from the layout down to the absurd number of HM requirement despite how far away the regions are from each other.Explanation  Doesn't help that the VS Seeker does not work in caves, so grinding levels are made more difficult due to the underleveled Pokémon and having to waste a slot in your team just to smash some rocks.
    • Gen IV in general has gotten this reaction. While competitive battling greatly diversified (detailed above in Growing the Beard), regular gameplay isn't much different from before. One of the main reasons that future generations haven't been as polarizing is the amount of innovation.
  • Love It or Hate It: While Gen III was the most neglected generation (and has become quite popular over time), Gen IV is probably the most controversial. It is frequently labelled as the best generation, and nearly just as often, labelled the absolute worst. Some fans love the improvements to competitive battling, the many powerful evolutions to oft-forgotten older Pokemon, and deep lore. Others hate the overabundance of the aforementioned evolutions and legendaries (with many of such detractors lambasting the former group of Pokemon as unnecessary and even ruining the design of the pre-evolution), and view the adventure as slow, formulaic, tedious and needlessly restrictive in Pokemon selection (though they might have a higher opinion of Platinum).
  • Magnificent Bastard: Cyrus, big time. He's shown to always be steps ahead of you or the other good guy characters, has an intricate criminal/terrorist operation carried out while using his team doing official business for his energy company as a front for these crimes, is highly intelligent and calculating, and has enough charisma to sway the spirits of his followers and deceive them into following his stated cause of using the powers of time/space to Take Over the World and change it for the better, when in reality he plans to literally destroy the existing world with these powers and create a new one where all living things would be stripped of spirit (what he believes is the source of all strife and incompleteness in the world) and he'd reign over it as God of a new universe. As a master of suppressing his emotions, he rarely ever loses composure and is strangely respectful and courteous towards his enemies too. Unlike other villains, he claims to not use Pokemon as friends or tools, but instead make their power his own through his man-made devices fueled by their energy such as the Red Chain.
  • Memetic Mutation:
    • DEEDLE DEEDLE DEEDLE DEE! WHOOOOOP note 
    • In some areas of the internet, especially in Japan, many people have joked about Flint resemblance to Ronald McDonald.
    • Some fans noted how Volkner looked like Minato and made jokes about it.
  • Moral Event Horizon: Cyrus' entire plan and the measures he takes to accomplish it, all Jerkass Woobie traits aside. Charon's plan for Heatran probably would've also qualified had it actually gotten off the ground.
  • Most Wonderful Sound
  • Never Live It Down:
    • Despite Platinum fixing the frame rate, this generation is forever tainted by Diamond and Pearl being so slow. Admittedly, Platinum still isn't that fast compared to other Pokemon games.
    • Sinnoh gets flak for its small Regional Pokedex, most infamously forcing Rapidash on you for a Fire-type if you didn't pick Chimchar. This isn't new to the series as the original Hoenn games also have shortage of certain types, but it's more noticeable here due to Flint's role as an Elite Four yet he only has two Pokémon of his type specialty. Platinum expanded the Regional Pokédex to correct this by adding the Magmar, Eevee, and Houndour lines to the game and placed Ponyta on a patch of grass north of Oreburgh City as well as giving it Flame Wheel early. While the choice for Fire-types is still small there's at least enough for Flint to have a full team.
    • The only previous-gen evolutions from this generation that the detractors remember are the likes of Lickilicky and Probopass.
  • Nightmare Fuel:
    • In Platinum, when Giratina is awakened at Spear Pillar. It crawls at the ground, its eyes glowing red. Then it leaps RIGHT AT THE SCREEN, along with its distorted cry. It's a pretty big Jump Scare for players not expecting that.
    • Cyrus, particularly his scheme to annihilate reality and reshape it as he sees fit - "a world without spirit", as he himself puts it.
    • The Old Chateau, to the point that the nearest Gym Leader refuses to set foot there. This place is haunted not just by ghost-type Pokemon but by human ghosts too. There's also the creepy TV sets, paintings that have glowing red eyes, and the furniture, where the rare Rotom can be found hiding in any of its forms.
    • The laboratory in the Galactic Veilstone Building, with creepy music, vats with ambiguous objects floating in them, and scientists who put the Lake Trio through such pain to create the Red Chain that they feel sick and begin to question Cyrus's goals.
    • Post-Champion, a new area spontaneously appears, the Spring Path/Sendoff Spring, starting in the middle of Route 214. It looks fairly normal, but the music? It's the same track that plays in the Old Chateau. Now, the Chateau was a typical haunted house, so the music fit. Here? Assuming you don't know what awaits you at the end (heck, even if you do), the music is stupendously dissonant. It just doesn't make sense; what's so horrible about this place? Just what are you getting yourself into?
    • There are two little trainer girls near the Valley Windworks who want to crunch and munch the player. God knows what they eat for dinner.
  • Older Than They Think: The Physical/Special split was actually introduced in Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness for Shadow-type moves.
  • Player Punch: Idol Grace, one of the trainers who hangs out at the Pokémon centres, invites you to join her fan club if you win. Sounds innocuous enough, but after she is defeated, she laments that she is singing her heart out in Snowpoint City...to a crowd of none. This in a series where "I wanna be the very best Like no one ever was" is a de facto catchphrase.
  • Rescued from the Scrappy Heap:
    • Waterfall. Prior to this generation, it is hated for being less powerful compared to Surf and is a redundant HM on a Pokémon's limited moveslot as they're both the same type with near-identical power and one cannot use Waterfall in the overworld without Surf but not vice-versa. This changed when it was classified as a Physical move and has a chance to flinch, giving it a chance to diverge from Surf. While the stronger Aqua Tail exists, Waterfall is generally considered the better option for Physical Water-types due to its perfect accuracy.
    • While many of the Gen I evolutions became Base Breaking Characters and Gen III evolutions were mostly just casually accepted, the Gen II evolutions certainly fall under this trope because most of them evolve from Junk Rares from said generation.
  • The Scrappy:
    • Pachirisu is one early on, due to their unusually high defenses to go with their high speed. It doesn't help that it's a blatant Pikachu expy. One being successfully used in the 2014 World Championships might have gotten it Rescued from the Scrappy Heap, though.
    • Purugly, because of its design (it even has UGLY in its name) and being an underleveled That One Boss at the Valley Windworks.
    • In more or less the same vein, Skuntank as well, since it is an underleveled That One Boss in Eterna City that can not only hit hard, but can poison your team or lower their accuracy. It also only has one weakness, Ground. And from a design standpoint, it is also despised for being themed around Toilet Humor (its face looks like a pair of buttocks and its cry sounds like flatulence.) It is quite telling when Skuntank and Purugly are uncatchable from Platinum and barely appearing in future generations.
    • Probopass, whose design is either hilarious or hideous depending on who you ask (not that Nosespass looked that good either). Its high defenses don't mean much when the Steel type slapped onto its Rock-type makes it quite susceptible to Ground and Fighting, the two most powerful offensive types in the game, so it's not even that good of a wall.
    • Ace Trainers. In these games, the National Dex requirements make their teams unpredictable without a guide since they will have powerful Pokémon in order to allow you to see every one in the Sinnoh Dex.
    • If you are in the Master Rank of the Beauty Contest, and if a woman named Tanya and her Chimchar named Chimpy are in said Contest, it is very likely that she will win because Chimpy's Beauty is ridiculously high compared to your Pokémon, no matter how many Poffins you feed it.
    • The Ponyta line for being the only non-Chimchar Fire-type Pokémon that is available in Diamond and Pearl. While they got slightly better from this generation onwards, fans are enraged that they're forced to use them due to their infamous reputation as a lackluster Fire-type Pokémon that only appears late-game in the first three generations.
    • The NPC in Snowpoint City who offers you her Haunter for a Medicham is hated for slapping an Everstone on said Haunter, making it incapable of evolving into a Gengar from said trade. Even her dialogue after the trade shows that she's apathetic about it.
  • Seinfeld Is Unfunny: Infernape is meant to be slightly better than Blaziken, but over time, the increasing yet surprising attention Blaziken get over the years with the game-breaking Speed Boost as its Hidden Ability and getting a very strong Mega Evolution leaves Infernape in the dust as it is stuck with the more restrictive Iron Fist as its Hidden Ability.
  • Tier-Induced Scrappy
    • Poor Luxray. It has a very popular design, but unfortunately, its Speed is too low, and there isn't much to work with in its movepool. That hasn't stopped it being used by quite a few players, though, since despite its flaws it is still a solid early-game Electric-type.
    • Most of the brand new Pokémon in this generation had good movepools, but mediocre to bad stats, with exceptions like the starters, Garchomp, Lucario and Staraptor (among a few others) notwithstanding. It seems that even-numbered Generations of Pokemon tend to have Pokémon with this problem, while odd-numbered Generations have Pokémon with strong stats but shallow movepools.
    • Electivire might be one of the biggest example of this and Hype Backlash. Good super effective coverage, and pretty decent stats combined with its decent synergy with Gyarados. Sadly, the fact that its starting speed are pretty low for a sweeper of its kindExplanation , Motor Drive is dependent on your opponent to activate, and the fact that its movepool doesn't include a high powered STAB physical move means it wont do much damage without an insane amount of effort, luck, or your opponent being an idiot. Even today Electrivire is a commonly bashed Mon, especially on Smogon.
    • Thanks to Stealth Rock, majority of the Fire and Ice-types got hit hard with this competitively. Stealth Rock was a move that created a permanent stage hazard note  which would reduce a Pokemon's health upon entry. If the Pokemon happens to be weak against rock types, it take out 25% of their health. Dual Weaknesses would stack the damage.
  • Scrappy Mechanic
    • The Pal Park limitation on migration - you can migrate only once per day. Of course, there are ways to effectively get around the limitation, but one should ask why they did implement that in first place. They learned from that mistake in HGSS, though. Also, you must have the National Dex before you can start using it.
    • While Gen III and future games simply require you to beat the Champion to get the National Dex, these games require you to have seen every Pokémon in the Regional Dex. Admittedly it's not very difficult if you haven't been avoiding trainers and constantly spraying Repels, but it still seems unnecessary, especially considering that seeing Manaphy in Platinum requires you to look in a book in the Pokémon Mansion that the game doesn't tell you about, the possibly having to use a honey tree (a disliked mechanic in and of itself) to see something you missed like a Combee, and the inconsistent requirements between Diamond and Pearl and Platinum due to the former's iteration of the regional Dex doesn't include every Pokémon introduced in Generation IV.
    • Marsh and Snow tiles. Every step you take in the former traps you in a tile, forcing you to tap the Control Pad every which way to free yourself. Some have tall grass, so each of these movements can trigger a wild Pokémon battle. Platinum at least distinguishes the marsh tiles that are safe to walk through, and the deep tiles can be avoided. Snow, unfortunately, is a mandatory obstacle that sinks you in and out of a snail's pace at random intervals, making the trek to Snowpoint quite annoying (if the nonstop hail on Routes 216 and 217 wasn't enough for you).
    • Honey Trees. You slather one with honey, wait six hours, and a wild Pokémon appears for you to catch. It's often a Wurmple, which you don't need Honey Trees to find, unlike every other Pokémon that can appear. If you're not satisfied with what you get, Save Scumming will only change the level, nature, gender and IVs (though this is helpful with Burmy and Combee, as the former evolves into different Pokémon depending on gender and the latter won't evolve at all unless it's the uncommon female). There's a 10% chance that nothing will appear. And good luck trying to get a Munchlax, which has a 1% chance of appearing on 4 of the 21 trees!
    • Poffin Cooking is needlessly complicated by the fact that you can't just stir in one direction. No, you have to go back and forth between stirring clockwise AND counter-clockwise. If that wasn't hard enough, you're not allowed to stir too fast or the mix will spill or let it settle for more than one second or it will burn. Contrast this with Gen III Berry Blending where all you had to do was press the A Button at the right time to increase blending speed. One more note is that Poffins made alone were vastly inferior to Pokeblocks that were made alone, indicating a forced emphasis on having friends to help you make Poffins.
  • Scrappy Weapon:
    • In both gameplay and competitive battles, the HM move Defog. In game, it's used to remove fog (a field effect that lowers the accuracy of nearly every move used in battle) in the field in addition to lower the opponent's evasion by one stage. The fog itself is viewed as totally unnecessary and frustrating weather effect designed to waste a valuable move space on your Flying-type or Pokémon with wing-like appendages for the sake of having an even number of HMs. Besides, most Flying-type Pokemon can learn Aerial Ace to bypass the fog's effect. It can remove your opponent's Light Screen/Reflect, but it will also remove entry hazards that you placed, making it counterproductive in competitive singles (where entry hazards are extremely important). It was eventually salvaged in X and Y when it was made so that it also removes entry hazards placed by the opponent, making it a competitive staple since it can't be blocked like Rapid Spin (the only other way to remove entry hazards).
    • Lumineon and Finneon are considered to be the Goldeen and Seaking of Sinnoh due to their pretty mediocre stats and the player encounter them much later in the game.
    • Despite the fact that it can only be obtained by breeding a Ditto and Manaphy or itself, Phione is very underwhelming. Like Manaphy, its stats are pretty balanced, but none of its stats are considered good. In addition, Phione lacks some moves that Manaphy could learn, most notably Tail Glow.
  • Sidetracked by the Gold Saucer:
    • As with every other pre-Gen V game in the series, there's a casino. And whenever that happens you end up spending hours on end trying to get the grand prize.
    • The elusive Feebas, a major cause of people getting sidetracked, is in the basement of Mt. Coronet, which also happens to be where Cyrus plans to unleash Palkia and/or Dialga on Sinnoh. Don't worry, Team Galactic will wait until after you're done hunting down a rare fish before they try to destroy the world.
    • The Underground is a minor version of this compared the casino. This place provides several useful items such as Evolutionary Stones, Fossils, the occasional Shard or Heart Scale, along with Vendor Trash you can sell for easy money. You tend to forget you were supposed to be level grinding for the badges when you were having a lucky streak of harvesting the rarer items.
  • So Okay, It's Average: By contrast to the classic Gen I and II, the more polarizing Gen III and the more innovative Gen V and VI, Diamond and Pearl are often seen as this. Platinum fixes many issues the first two games had, so it may still be seen as genuinely good, if quite dated.
  • Surprise Difficulty:
    • Because the original Sinnoh Regional Pokédex, well... sucked, a lot of the gym leaders don't actually use their preferred type for the majority of their team, making them harder to sweep with a single Pokémon that knows a super effective move. This is most notable with Volkner and Flint; for each one, half of the Pokémon on their teams don't follow their preferred typing. The electric trainer Volkner has an Octillery and an Ambipom, while Flint's got a Steelix, Drifblim, and Lopunny. Some of these Pokémon are put there to combat the common killers of their favorite types (Octillery beats Ground Pokémon and Steelix beats Rock Pokémon).
    • Combined a bit with Sequel Difficulty Spike, there are a few prevailing rumors about how the Sinnoh region's layout necessitating quite a bit of region-hopping and backtracking throughout Diamond and Pearl's adventure caused some serious frustrations in young, first-time Pokémon players.To elaborate  Complaints from these frustrations are sometimes attributed to Platinum and beyond's linearity boost of their main adventures.For Example  Similarly, the general Surprise Difficulty in Cynthia's team, Region Champion or no, may be considered a possible contributing factor for anyone who finds later games' regions' end game foes to be easier than they would prefer.In relation to Platinum 
  • Tastes Like Diabetes: A few young child characters, such as the scientist's young daughter in Floaroma Town, the Pikachu-cosplaying girls or Tuber Chelsea on Route 213.
    Scientist's daughter: (after you defeat Team Galactic at the Valley Windworks) Thank you, Trainer! You made those bad people go away! I think the balloon Pokémon note  will come visiting again!
  • Tear Jerker:
    • Barry's Heroic B.S.O.D. after failing to save Uxie from being kidnapped. "I have to get tougher. It's not just about being the strongest trainer anymore..."
    • Hearing Cyrus' past from his grandfather in Platinum. Especially considering what it's shaped him into.
    • One in hindsight now. Remember Looker and his Croagunk? This game was both characters' debut. For Croagunk, it will be his only appearance. As of X and Y Croagunk was killed offscreen sometime between Generations 4 and 6. Even more so when you realize that there's no mention of it in Black and White, so Croagunk probably died between Gens 4 and 5.
    • In the Lost Tower, you may encounter Roughneck Kirby. His only Pokémon is a Cleffa, a definite change from what Roughnecks are known to use (and an initial source of amusement). Then Kirby states before the battle that the rest of his Pokémon were killed by Team Galactic. That Cleffa he has? It's the only one he has left.
  • That One Level: Route 217. The perpetual hail gradually whittling down the HP of any non-Ice Pokemon (which you wouldn't have had access to until now) can be problematic, but the real issue comes with the snow, which sinks you in and out of a snail's pace at sporadic intervals, making the trek to Acuity Lakefront tedious. At least the music's nice.
  • They Changed It, Now It Sucks: In the European Platinum versions, you can't play the slot machines in the game corner and have to gather some coins from them once a day. This also means the only way to get the Explosion TM without trading or cheating is to hope the attendant randomly decides to give you one.
  • Tough Act to Follow: Not the games themselves, but a specific Pokémon example in Lucario; it is regarded as a really well-handled, well-promoted Pokémon. Its obvious successor Zoroark did not fare as well and fans were largely indifferent to it, and Lucario was later promoted over it. The same was later attempted with Mega Mewtwo Y, but the questionably-handled Pokémon: Genesect and the Legend Awakened prevented it from reaching Lucario's level of success.note 
  • Unfortunate Character Design: Palkia's head heavily resembles a penis with balls (the shoulder pads). Its Shiny version is even worse, since it's entirely pink.
  • Viewer Gender Confusion:
    • On the male side of things, both Saturn and Lucian have been confused for girls due of their fairly feminine faces. Not helped that the former's team has all but one of his Pokémon being female.
    • On the female side, Fantina's mannish face has made some people think that she's a crossdressing man like Emerald's Tucker.
  • Vindicated by History:
    • Lucario was largely ignored after its generational debut and was believed to be outdated. It later saw a resurgence in popularity after returning as one of the fan-favorite older Pokémon in Pokémon Black 2 and White 2, after Pokémon X and Y gave it a Mega Evolution, and after being announced for the fourth Super Smash Bros., defying many people's expectations. In a 2014 Dorkly popularity poll, Lucario got 12th place despite it not being 2008 anymore, and having ranked much lower on a similar 2011 IGN poll.
    • Zig-zagged with the previous-gen evolutions, who have seen much more positive reception since the beginning of Gen IV but become divisive again when Mega Evolutions are introduced, especially because most of the bad apples are left out even further by Generation VI's metagame.
    • While Diamond and Pearl are still very polarizing and considered to be outdated, Platinum has truly been vindicated by history; as time went on, people began to consider it one of the best games in the series just like its immediate successors HeartGold and SoulSilver due to its amount of content and features, along with its improved storyline from Diamond and Pearl that nonetheless wouldn't obstruct the gameplay like with later games in the series. It helps that Sinnoh is one of the most non-linear regions in the series, a concept very popular with Western gamers in particular.
    • Predictably, many people have begun asking for Gen IV remakes now that Gen III got its own, especially since there is a notable rivalry between fanbases of those two generations and Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire actually rescued the Hoenn games from being neglected as a whole (something that struck Gen IV as of late) with the improved visuals and game mechanics of Gen VI.
  • Wangst: Some of the things that Cyrus says can border on this.
  • Win Back the Crowd: Gen IV as a whole with Platinum. When Diamond/Pearl came out, they were the worst-regarded games in the series so far and were full of criticisms unique to the Gen (most notably the extremely slow pacing and the poor regional pokedex). Platinum completely overhauled the game, to the point that it's considered one of the best games in the franchise now, and Heart Gold/Soul Silver only cemented the popularity of Gen IV. Still, if those games hadn't been made this Gen would have been seen as a universal low point for the series.
  • The Woobie: Roughneck Kirby, the guy whose Pokemon were killed by Team Galactic.
  • Woolseyism: Looker is named Handsome in the Japanese release. Not only is it another way of saying handsome (i.e., one way to say someone is pretty is to say they're "quite a looker"), but it also ties in with his profession (he's a cop, as in, he looks for clues).
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/PokemonDiamondandPearl