"To me, all the fatal flaws fanboys bitched about in regards to the [Star Wars] prequels — stiff dialogue, wooden performances, a convoluted plot, and mindless spectacle divorced from human emotion — were there from the very beginning."A Franchise Original Sin is a flaw that in earlier, good installments was kept under control to the point of not really being a flaw, but goes out of hand and becomes apparent in later installments. Franchise Original Sins may be exacerbated by Protection from Editors resulting in Filibuster Freefall, or a result of a Creator Breakdown or other form of Troubled Production. It is possible for a story to recover from its sins if the writer experiences a Creator Recovery — or you might be looking at the point where the fans invoke Fanon Discontinuity. Or it might be regression to the mean; the work in question was popular because the early installments were above the quality the creators could normally produce, and when they returned to baseline, it was over for them. It's possible to Jump the Shark without having an Original Sin. Take, for example, Moonlighting, which couldn't keep up the Will They or Won't They? any longer, and the point at which they did was the moment all dramatic tension deflated from the series. There was no Original Sin there, besides the Will They or Won't They?, which was part of what made the series work, so it doesn't qualify here. Expect to hear a lot of statements like "It was all right when it only happened occasionally, but..." if this trope is brought up in conversation. Sometimes, these elements might have actually been embraced initially, only for fan opinion to turn against them once they became problematic to the work at large. Rule of thumb: if you can imagine a reboot or spiritual successor without the element in question, then it qualifies. If you can't, then it isn't a Franchise Original Sin. Secondary rule of thumb: If it wasn't visible in previous good episodes, it's an Ass Pull or a Retool gone bad, not a Franchise Original Sin. Compare with First Installment Wins. Often goes along with Sequelitis. Also compare with Overused Running Gag and Discredited Meme, a more specific variety of this trope where a joke gets used so often that everyone gets sick of it. Contrast Seinfeld Is Unfunny, when overexposure makes the original seem less good in hindsight. Please be careful you aren't Complaining About Shows You Don't Like.
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Anime and Manga
- In Naruto, even in early episodes you could already see that Sasuke was going to be really important and tips about how the Uchiha clan's Myth Arc is key were dropped. Then Sasuke became really important, and the Uchiha clan's Myth Arc swallowed the plot. It's a sore spot between fans whether this is a good thing, a bad thing, or something in between.
- Many of the criticisms during the Arrancar saga first showed in the Soul Society arc. The decreased focus on Ichigo and his friends (much of the arc revolves around the intrigue among the Shinigami as opposed to Ichigo's mission to rescue Rukia, Chad is taken out easily by Captain Kyoraku, and Ishida and Orihime disappear for a large part of the story), the feeling of Arc Fatigue, and Aizen's improbable level of planning and his ability to easily take out anyone in his way are all things that would become much worse in later arcs.
- Numerous plot twists are a trend that also dates back to the end of the Soul Society arc. It's revealed that the real reason Rukia's execution was arranged was so Aizen could get a powerful object called the Hogyoku that was implanted in her body. The Hogyoku itself didn't really get much build up beyond a vague mention in a letter, but because the story was still in its early stages and because it was important to the main villain's plans, most viewers didn't have a problem with it. Aizen himself was introduced as a kind hearted captain that was brutally murdered, before revealing that he had faked his death and was behind everything in the story to that point, a development that was widely praised at the time. Since then, the number of 'shocking' plot twists in the story has become perhaps the most common criticism about Bleach after Arc Fatigue, and every new twist tends to cause massive arguments in the fanbase about whether they make sense or not. This is most prominent during the Deicide arc, where Aizen becomes embroiled in a Gambit Roulette so ludicrous people stopped taking him seriously.
- Sailor Moon's much reviled fourth season, SuperS, was founded on many of the elements people hated most about this arc: fairy tale inspired mythology, campy villains, a destined love between Official Couple Usagi and Mamoru, and spotlights on characters other than Usagi herself (namely Chibiusa). While all these elements worked wonderfully in previous seasons, by the time the fourth arc rolled around they just felt stale. The fifth season attempted to fight the Seasonal Rot by immediately sending Chibiusa back to the future, returning the series to magical sci-fi, introducing new characters for a fresh Love Triangle story, and making the Big Bad far more lethal than any previous season.
- In the El-Hazard: The Magnificent World OVA, Makoto's a Chick Magnet from day one, with three girls initially attracted to him, but it isn't really a Harem Series at that point. Makoto chooses his girlfriend fairly early on, and Nanami and Shayla-Shayla's attraction is a side plot occasionally tapped for humor and fanservice. But when they reach the third series, El Hazard: The Alternative World, the writers seem to have run out of ideas, and Makoto's girlfriend is on a bus anyway, so they have the girls fighting over Makoto every episode and insert a Third-Option Love Interest to spice things up. As a result, The Alternative World was widely seen as inferior to the first and second OVA series, and was Cut Short, with only 13 out of 26 episodes completed.
- One Piece:
- The elements that made the 4Kids Entertainment English dub so hated were mostly present in earlier, far more successful shows like Pokémon — Cut-and-Paste Translation, baffling Bowdlerization, Viewers Are Morons, and so on. However, this was sort of okay then because Pokémon skewed towards a much younger audience, and 4Kids had demonstrated that they knew not to use this strategy all the time, as seen in Shaman King or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003). It was only when complaints about those two shows led them to try to apply it to One Piece that the whole thing fell apart... and it didn't help that the Cut-and-Paste Translation technique was falling out of favor at around the same time.
- In the original version, problems that affected later parts of the series started showing up early on. Pacing problems were present since Skypeia, and the plot having way too many characters started in Enies Lobby. The Dressrosa Arc later became the pinnacle of both of these issues, with Oda attempting to cram too many new developments into one arc that resulted in: 2 and a half years in real life spent on the same island, about 10 extended flashbacks, a little over 50 named new characters, the reintroduction of several old characters, and 101 chapters of content.
- Dragon Ball:
- Fans of the 1986 anime forget that the flaws they often attack in Z (using the titular Dragon Balls as a reset button to undo the villains' murderous rampage, lots of filler and padding to the fights and stories to keep from catching up to the manga, storylines taking way too long to resolve themselves, etc.) were all present, to one degree or another from the start. They just hadn't yet been done to death. Even funnier, the Namek/Frieza Saga, which is often used as an example of padding and filler going out of control, actually has the least amount of it compare to the other sagas. The anime version of the Namek/Frieza Saga is only a little longer compared to the manga.
- The criticism of the series' treatment of Yamcha in particular. He was hardly a serious threat when he started out as an antagonist, and he went down to several humiliating defeats throughout the original Dragon Ball. Perhaps what turns off fans from him in Z isn't the fact that he loses, but that he loses in particularly brutal ways that come across as mean-spirited in comparison to the more light-hearted original series.
- As pointed out by Team Four Star, the Saiyan Saga of Dragon Ball Z, despite setting the tone for the remainder of the series, also introduced many staples the franchise would be criticized for: Power Levels, Power Levels turning out to be useless, Beam-O-Wars, extremely over-the-top and drawn-out fights, and everybody getting killed while waiting for Goku (Gohan in one instance) and his new powerup to save the day. This was all excusable was it was new, but it got old as each new saga came out.
- Fairy Tail, back in the Tower of Heaven arc, had Erza Scarlet requip to nothing but a sarashi and hakama pants, while dual wielding katanas, an outfit that is explicitly stated to not provide her any defense, or really any magic. What was supposed to represent her getting over her fear of pain associated with the Tower of Heaven and her own experiences with it became a predictable formula for all of her major fights from there on out: Be on the receiving end of a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown, have most of her other armors either destroyed or disregarded, only to have her make a token 'Nakama Speech' and then requip to this, resulting in a swift victory for her.
- Lyrical Nanoha's particular claim to fame has always been its superimposition of sci-fi mecha tropes over a Moe Magical Girl series, and for the most part this has been a good thing, allowing it to stand out from the crowd and earning it much of its fanbase. The problem, however, is that over time the franchise has shifted more and more into being a Magitek sci-fi epic, and the magical girl tropes were increasingly downplayed. This led to Magical Record Lyrical Nanoha Force, where the "Magical Girl" was dropped from the series title entirely, along with nearly all the magical girl tropes, in hopes of telling a sci-fi war story. In doing this, however, it lost sight of the particular formula that had made the franchise such a hit to begin with, and combined with some poorly-received characters, the series has been roundly criticized by old-school fans.
- Most of the criticisms of the second half of Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's, widely acknowledged as a major step down from the first half (promising plot arcs being resolved inadequately, Konami butting in where they don't belong, out-of-place goofiness, focusing on Team Satisfaction characters and Yusei in particular to the exclusion of everyone else) could be found in the earlier Dark Signer arc and even the Fortune Cup arc, widely acknowledged as two of the pinnacles of the franchise. The debate is ongoing as to how the drop happened, but the easiest answer would probably be that the earlier arcs had strong serialized plots that kept the audience interested through their flaws, while the second half... didn't.
- The original Mobile Suit Gundam featured the death of Lalah Sune as she takes a blow from Amuro's beam sabre to save Char which pits the two men against each other for almost the rest of their lives. Since then it's just about compulsory for every Gundam series to feature a (usually Newtype) girlfriend, love interest or female mentor of the hero's get Stuffed into the Fridge, making Gundam as a whole notorious for over-reliance on the Disposable Woman trope. This reaches a head in Mobile Suit Victory Gundam when the entire Shrike Team gets killed off.
- Many of the flaws older fans criticize newer seasons for having — a formulaic plot, filler being common to the point of Arc Fatigue, bland and forgettable one-shot characters etc. — all had their roots in the Kanto and Orange Islands series which preceded them. These flaws were more or less forgiven since it was the first season and the formula wasn't entirely set in stone yet, and the filler wasn't packed close together and didn't make up a large portion of the series as it would in Johto. It also had a number of memorable episodes like "Go West, Young Meowth", which added a layer of depth that the series never quite had since, making fans more forgiving towards it.
- Unlike the games, the animé has always had a habit of depicting multiple legendary Pokémon existing (as opposed to being Single Specimen Species), as well as rarely, if ever, reusing old legendaries (the Celebi from Pokémon: Zoroark: Master of Illusions is not the same one as the one from Pokémon 4Ever, for instance). Though few complained about this, that changed with Pokémon: Genesect and the Legend Awakened and its controversial move to use a brand new Mewtwo over the well-known and popular one from The First Movie. Because Mewtwo was firmly established as a one-of-a-kind man-made Pokémon who couldn't be replicated (and not naturally born like the aforementioned Celebi), many fans logically assumed it would be the same one from before, and thus were confused and upset when it turned out to be completely different.
- The movies tend to have "evil" legendaries as the supposed Big Bad, who are either really non-malicious monsters with the conflict coming from misunderstandings, or who pull a Heel–Face Turn by the end. This all started back with Pokémon: The First Movie.* While some were disappointed, it being the first use of the trope (and Mewtwo being genuinely sympathetic, especially in the original Japanese version) let the film off. Fast forward to around the sixteenth movie, and many fans are sick of the continued lack of a truly villainous Pokémon when there are several cool and/or creepy candidates. It also doesn't help that by contrast, human villains are more plentiful, more evil and generally lacking in character.
- A common criticism for the series is Ash's continued inability to win a Pokémon League, which came to a head after his Kalos League loss. While he's lost Leagues since the original series, at first the idea of the main character failing to achieve his goals by the end was relatively novel. Then the series not only kept making him lose, but did so in increasingly contrived ways — Sinnoh had a one-off Trainer with legendaries on his team, Unova made Ash lose to a ditz with a five-against-six handicap (who didn't even win the League himself), and Kalos had Alain enter by collecting all the badges in a ridiculously small timeframe solely to fight and beat Ash, despite showing no interest in the League beforehand. Thanks to this, Ash is commonly considered a Failure Hero and one of the show's weakest points.
- Certain criticism for Dangan Ronpa 3 can result into this:
- A major criticism for the divisive Side: Hope ending is that it was more of a Happy Ending instead of a Bittersweet Ending that the past installments usually have, causing many fans to state they do not believe a happy ending like that fits in with the franchise. However, if one takes a look at the endings for the games, they have became happier and more optimistic compared to the original ending for the first game, as Super Dangan Ronpa 2 went on to state that the "deceased" students were actually comatose students that could be woken up and in Absolute Despair Girls the only named characters to die were minor ones. Additionally, Absolute Despair Girls itself had been criticized by some fans for revealing the deaths of the Warriors of Hope to be Disney Deaths.
- DR also had a habit since SDR2 of giving returning characters Plot Armor when it revealed that the "Byakuya Togami" who died was actually an imposter. While this wasn't divisive as a twist there, it was considerably more controversial here, where Asahina, Togami and most infamously Kirigiri all seemingly died only for it to be revealed they survived later.
- A major criticism for Andou's character is that she crossed the Moral Event Horizon for her unreasonable murder of her boyfriend Izayoi. However, a Recurring Element of the Dangan Ronpa series is having a female character commit an unsympathetic murder about halfway through the story, exactly like Andou. The first game had Celeste and the second game had Mikan. However, Celeste's motivation was suspected to be a lie and the manga provided an Alternative Character Interpretation that shows her Dark and Troubled Past. Mikan's feelings towards her beloved (heavily implied to be Enoshima) were proven by this anime to be forced upon her via brainwashing, absolving her of guilt for the incident. Both did a lot more than Andou to establish themselves as sympathetic before their respective murders, with Andou's main aspect being her trust issues. However, that actually ended up making things worse, as it was executed in a way that made her come across as Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
- Having the Big Bad of a certain installment brainwash a group of people to be on their side is not unfamiliar to the series as Absolute Despair Girls had Monaca brainwash the Monokuma Kids to serve her. However, this wasn't as divisive as Junko brainwashing the Super Dangan Ronpa 2 kids into serving her, since Monaca did it to a large group of nameless, faceless people as opposed to the fleshed-out and very popular SDR2 cast, who were popularly thought to have fallen into despair through manipulation and not through brainwashing.
- Crisis on Infinite Earths. While cleaning up the Continuity Snarl that was the multiverse was a good idea, bringing Retcon to whole new levels and unleashing the horror that was The Dark Age of Comic Books did not help things.
- And you can't accuse Crisis on Infinite Earths without also pointing the finger at the fateful "Flash of Two Worlds" story from The Flash #123 (September, 1961), establishing the idea of Golden and Silver Age versions of the same heroes coexisting in separate universes and traveling between them. If the Crisis was Original Sin, "Flash of Two Worlds" was its corresponding Fall of Lucifer.
- COIE firmly established that Anyone Can Die by having Killed Off for Real two dozen pre-established characters, the most famous being The Flash and Supergirl who each had a whole issue devoted to their deaths culminating in a Heroic Sacrifice. None of the other deaths were handled that well. For the rest, they Dropped a Bridge on Him. This reached its apex in the final issue (# 12), where 7 characters were quickly dispatched in a 2 page spread, including two popular pre-Crisis Multiverse characters, the Earth-2 Robin and Huntress... and these 7 characters weren't the only pre-established characters to be so easily butchered that issue. As the years went by, and more promoted fanboys began Running the Asylum, there were more and more deaths like this, invariably newer characters the writers and editors hadn't grown up reading, creating the C-List Fodder trope and causing the Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy readers now have for newer characters.
- Some of the worst excesses of the Dark Age can also, quite famously, trace their roots back to two of what are still recognized as among the greatest graphic novels in the medium's history: Watchmen and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. Both comics won enormous praise and commercial success for their elevation of the medium to new levels of artistic credibility; the former was recognized by Time in 2005 as among the 100 greatest novels ever reviewed by the magazine (the only graphic novel on the list). They also contained levels of violence and sex that were, at the time, unheard of in comics. Writers with less talent than Alan Moore and Frank Miller mistakenly assumed that that was the reason why Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns were so successful, leading to a slew of comics that desperately aimed to be 'mature' yet reveled in the most immature sort of shock value.
- Frank Miller:
- Many new readers who take a look at the "heyday" of his work (Frank Miller's Wolverine, Daredevil: Born Again, Batman: Year One, and of course, The Dark Knight Returns) have stated that most of the problems associated with his newer works — misogyny, racism, militaristic fascism, sociopathic heroes, and derailing characters whom he doesn't like (such as Superman) — were present in the very beginning. Before Middle East stereotypes, he used Japanese ones, reflecting the cultural fears of the time. His female characters invoked the Madonna–Whore Complex right from the start (Catwoman became a prostitute in Year One, Karen Page became a porn actress), and most of his stories involved heroes abandoning their lighter interpretations for ultraviolent grimdark. The difference (aside from the novelty of this kind of stuff at the time) was that his earlier works usually professed that there was a better way to all this, and that his protagonists were part of the problem. In later works, his characters are Jerk Sues and Tautological Templars who are still professed to be better than everyone else and a necessary evil.
- Miller's infamously So Bad, It's Good All-Star Batman & Robin, the Boy Wonder actually has many of the same problems that plagued his classic The Dark Knight Returns (to which it's a Stealth Prequel), just taken to comical extremes. In particular, Returns ran on a hefty dose of Alternative Character Interpretation that's still rather divisive among comic book fans: Batman's loner tendencies are taken to the point of emotional sterility, and his physical strength and discipline comes with a frightening stomach for violence, while Superman's famous idealism and patriotism make him an easy pawn for politicians, Jason Todd is said to have died in the line of dutynote , and the new Robin is called a "good soldier" at one point. Even if you didn't agree with the reinterpretations, the characters were ambiguous enough that you could still find them sympathetic in spite of their flaws. But in All-Star, they're all but impossible to take seriously. Batman is a foul-mouthed psychopath who starves and abuses Dick Grayson and drafts him into crime-fighting against his will, yet he is still supposedly the most sympathetic character of them all — but when you compare him to the moronic simpleton Superman, the angry misandrist Wonder Woman, and the naïve hick Green Lantern, you can see why somebody might draw that conclusion.
- A lot of the problems with X-Men started with Chris Claremont doing too many things on the fly and not often planning ahead. But at least he didn't force those Running the Asylum now to take his older plots as canon gospel. That is their own fault.
- Generation X was Dawson's Creek with a cast of mutants. As such, its main failing from the beginning was a general lack of plot direction. The characters did whatever, and in the first two-thirds this was fine because their characters played off each other and the comic climate accommodated its leisurely pace. It helped that, being like a Teen Drama, it dealt with common teen problems. As the series wore on and the '90s gave way to the early '00s, however, the general quality dissolved little by little. The character interactions became strained, and the teenage fans had begun moving on to more meaty stories. This (coupled with lots of changes in creative teams) eroded all the draws that kept readers on the book, and the old aimlessness came out.
- Uderzo's run as writer of the Astérix comics started out very similarly to Goscinny's run, but with a few immediate shifts in character — first, that Uderzo had a more satirical and parodic sense of humour than Goscinny, who was more into absurdity and anarchy; second, that Uderzo liked writing more complicated, cinematic adventure plotlines, where Goscinny tended to prefer plots that were in the background to the characters's antics; and third, that he pushed fantasy elements further into the foreground, where the setting up until that point had been a Purely Aesthetic Era version of Ancient Rome with one really important fantasy element. This is not considered to detract from the quality of most of the early Uderzo-only books, like The Great Divide, Asterix and Son, and The Black Gold (with a very un-Goscinny James Bond parody subplot), although they are definitely different in tone, but books like The Magic Carpet (where the Dreadful Musician suddenly develops a magic power necessary for the plot to work) and Obelix All At Sea (Obelix gets turned to stone, reverts to childhood, and they all go to Atlantis) are often criticised for being straight fantasy adventures with not much in the way of humour.
Then there was Asterix and the Secret Weapon, a book about a Straw Feminist taking over the village and defeating a female villain by offering her clothes and shoes. Put Genre Shift, Strawman Political, and Cerebus Syndrome all together and you get the series' shark-jumping moment, Asterix and The Falling Sky, a weird, puerile, xenophobic, and poorly-drawn science fiction story involving the village being invaded by aliens representing the Americans and the Japanese, which was intended as an Author Tract about the influence of manga and American comics on Franco-Belgian Comics but too poorly-written to even work on that level. Fans widely derided it as the worst thing in the world, and Uderzo retired before writing another book celebrating Asterix's 50th anniversary. Both this book and the one made by another duo Uderzo allowed to take over the series found a better reception.
- Archie Comics' Sonic the Hedgehog can point theirs all the way back to issue 50 and the creation of Knuckles' comic. Issue 50 was meant to be the Grand Finale for the comic and have Robotnik finally Killed Off for Real. However, the comic was Un-Cancelled and entered its Post-Script Season, leaving everyone to scramble as to what to do. Robotnik was first replaced with Ixis Naugus, only to be put away and replaced with Dr. Eggman in time for Sonic Adventure. However, Eggman was portrayed as an ineffectual villain and the comic seemed to just forget Eggman and focus more on Love Triangles, aliens, and everything that wasn't "speedy blue hedgehog fights fat scientist".
The Knuckles comic was another problem, with writer Ken Penders deciding not to expand on clues left behind with the video games at that time to create a super-secret society of Echidnas and try to turn Knuckles into The Chosen One who would end up defeating Eggman and bringing peace to Mobius. Between the main title's lack of focus and the Knuckles comic's Mary Suetopia and Character Shilling problems, it nearly destroyed the comic until Ian Flynn's arrival.
- The revelation that Espio was a member of a ninja clan and then betrays the Chaotix to the Iron Dominion (said ninja clans' masters) was only the latest in a series of Retcons/Face Heel Turns involving certain characters during Ian Flynn's run, most famously Fiona Fox revealing out of nowhere that the only reason she fell in love with Sonic was because of Scourge, and then betraying the Freedom Fighters to be his Girlfriend. While not without controversy (like a lot of Ian Flynn's run), it slid by, as Fiona was mostly forgotten as a character before exploding in popularity as a villain. In Espio's case, however, he was not only a popular character as a hero, but also a character straight from the games, and it became far harder to ignore.
- When Superboy-Prime was reintroduced in Infinite Crisis by Geoff Johns, he was something of an affectionate jab/deconstruction at the fandom and a Take That towards obnoxious, overreacting Fan Dumb. This was somewhat clever and liked by fans, especially since it picked on jerkass fans who deserved to be mocked. Unfortunately, less talented writers got their hands on him and Flanderized him into a giant assholish insult towards all readers. Thus he was quickly turned into The Scrappy and readers started hating him and the comics he was in since they were doing nothing but insulting the very people who pay for comics.
- The entirety of Infinite Crisis itself is a bit of a discourse on the "Return to the Silver Age" movement that had arisen since the publication of Kingdom Come. The latter was written as a late-90s treatise on The Dark Age of Comic Books, showing the absurdity of Dark Age heroes with their Kill 'em All stance, juxtaposing them against the Silver Age heroes with their Thou Shalt Not Kill stance. However, it was not afraid to point out that the Silver Age ideals were quite prone to believing in Black and White Morality, The Complainer Is Always Wrong, and thus they could very easily fall to using — albeit nonviolent — totalitarian tactics in order to make sure their ideals, and ONLY their ideals, were followed by other heroes. The final moral is that the two sides (Silver Age and Dark Age) must come to terms — an analogy that a return to the Bronze Age is best: Heroes should treat matters seriously as the gray areas they often are, but should never lose the convictions to do what's right, rather than just do what's easiest/most permanent. However many fans of, and authors at, DC misunderstood and figured this was the windfall that would allow them to return comics to their Silver Age Campiness, if not completely return to Pre-Crisis status as a whole, and the years to come saw a multitude of attempts by various authors to do this. Infinite Crisis, then, pointed out that while the Dark Age was admittedly an Old Shame, fans and authors also needed to take off the Nostalgia Filter and realize that while the Silver Age has a lot to offer in terms of plot devices and elements, it was also filled with tons of embarrassingly-badly-written nonsense that should just be forgotten, or remembered as So Bad, It's Good.
- From the Spider-Man franchise:
- The famous Gwen Stacy death plotline. Behind the scenes, it happened as a way for writer Gerry Conway to resolve the Gwen Stacy romance since she had become too close to Peter and realistically they would eventually marry and settle down which aged up the character considerably. Thing is, Gerry Conway was a decent writer and the storyline worked out pretty well, becoming a stunning Wham Episode that changed the course of the series. When a later editor developed the same fear of aging Peter too much, we got universally reviled storylines and retcons like Sins Past and One More Day.
Gwen's death itself became so famous and influential it spawned many more stories of superheroes' wives or girlfriends getting Killed Off for Real that led to the Stuffed into the Fridge trope that's so polarizing now to many readers, especially female readers. With the shock value now gone forever, and with all the imitations since then, it can be hard for newer readers to understand what was so great about this story in the first place. It can even seem like one of the worst examples of Fridging. Gwen's barely in the issue that kills her off, spending most of her time there drugged and unconscious until she dies. Reading this story as a standalone, as it's so often reprinted, divorced from the context of previous Spider-Man issues, it can even be hard to see why Gwen was such a popular character beyond the vague idea that she was a Nice Girl.
- The Death of Jean DeWolffe as well. While Gwen Stacy's death is the Trope Maker of the Stuffed into the Fridge trope, this was the Trope Codifier. The writer, Peter David, specifically said that this death was included to be shocking, as well as to subvert the Dying Moment of Awesome trope that had become standardized for Character Death. David wanted Jean's death to be undignified, unheroic, and completely out of nowhere. This paved the way for both Marvel and DC to start handing out shock deaths like candy, a trend that continues to this day.
- The famous Gwen Stacy death plotline. Behind the scenes, it happened as a way for writer Gerry Conway to resolve the Gwen Stacy romance since she had become too close to Peter and realistically they would eventually marry and settle down which aged up the character considerably. Thing is, Gerry Conway was a decent writer and the storyline worked out pretty well, becoming a stunning Wham Episode that changed the course of the series. When a later editor developed the same fear of aging Peter too much, we got universally reviled storylines and retcons like Sins Past and One More Day.
- In many ways, the increasingly criticized True Art Is Angsty approach of the New 52 is just the culmination of DC's somewhat well-received attempts at Darker and Edgier, beginning with Identity Crisis. Back than it was the stories becoming somewhat more mature. Now (despite some real gems like Forever Evil) several of its stories tried way too hard to be edgy and slipping back into the excesses and failures of the Dark Age (such as the initial Teen Titans series, which had massively reviled plot points such as Kid Flash being an unrepentent criminal from the future and villain Harvest's entire... everything). Only time will tell if DC's upcoming event, Convergence, will be able to put a ceiling on this.
- League of Extraordinary Gentlemen:
- Alan Moore always tried to sell the series on the strength of its central Massively Multiplayer Crossover, with an intricate universe that showed dozens of classic works of literature weaved together into a cohesive whole. In that regard, one element that got some buzz was his use of Broad Strokes to develop once-bland cyphers into interesting characters in their own right. In the first volume, these two elements perfectly complimented and spiced up a genuinely interesting adventure story. However, by the time of Black Dossier and especially Century, they had become a major weakness. For the former, many scenes ended up being devoted to showing off Moore's education instead of advancing the plot, leaving a whole lot of interesting names scattered through a slow and boring narrative. As the series advanced into modern times, Moore also ran out of Public Domain Characters, forcing him to do a whole lot of obvious Writing Around Trademarks. For the latter, Moore attempted to apply his broad-strokes reinvention technique to characters who were far more well-known and fleshed-out to readers than the likes of Allan Quatermain (most infamously James Bond and Harry Potter), leaving the impression that Moore either hadn't done any research or was trying to fulfill some kind of vendetta. Other times, he botched the reinvention; one of his most ambitious creations, Orlando, earned a reputation as a Creator's Pet, and the general opinion of the Golliwog is that he was best left forgotten.
- Moore has used the series as a means of performing mean-spirited hatchet jobs on characters he doesn't like since the beginning. The very first volume featured Griffin raping both Becky Randall and Pollyanna Whittier. But, unlike his treatment of Harry Potter and James Bond, the characters in question were old-tyme enough that they didn't have strong fanbases to be offended at their treatment. And, also unlike them, the hatchet-job was a side-note within the plot rather than a central part of the narrative.
- The single most-criticized aspect of the Tom Taylor run of Earth2 was the introduction en masse of Superman and Batman characters in a setting that was founded on being mostly free of them. Despite this, most of them had actually been introduced in the earlier and much better-regarded Robinson run - it was only in Taylor's run that they started to actively push out the other characters.
- As argued in this article by Kevin Wong of Kotaku, the Wolverine Publicity given to Snoopy starting in the '60s foreshadowed how Peanuts transformed from a grounded and fairly dark Slice of Life comic strip into the shallow and saccharine pap that marked its Seasonal Rot from the late '70s onward. Originally, Snoopy was written as a normal dog, but as he started to gain an actual personality (for lack of a better term), he and his fantastic adventures became a nice contrast to the rest of the strip. In time, however, the increasing humanization of Snoopy grew out of control, the strip focusing more on putting Snoopy in goofy costumes and crazy situations as opposed to the social commentary on growing up that was the strip's hallmark in its early days. Other characters were pushed Out of Focus, while depth fell by the wayside in favor of gags and cuteness. Eventually, it culminated in the addition of other animal characters, such as Woodstock (who existed pretty much just to be cute) and Snoopy's family, meaning that Snoopy didn't have to interact much with the human characters at all anymore.
- A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons succumbed to the sprawling, complex nature of the Song of Ice and Fire storyline that had previously been a selling point. The series has always been about gradual plot development and long term pay-offs, with a lot of detail put into exploring the backdrop of the action and the world in general — but this was all complemented by significant happenings. Though some POV characters had less to do than others, each book had a dramatic arc to it. Feast and Dance, meanwhile, are criticized for essentially very little happening because the focus is drawn so wide, with too much time spent describing characters and places that don't really matter—issues that culminate in the books ending without their logical climax out of a combination of the author and editor needing to publish SOMETHING already and the fact that Dance was already so long that it tested the limits of bookbinding technology despite being unfinished. Notably, when the HBO adaptation Game of Thrones reached this point in the series during season 5, many of these same criticisms — namely, that the show was moving too slowly and was having trouble corralling all of its many plotlines — were repeated almost verbatim by TV critics, even with the show's attempts at Adaptation Distillation.
- Similarly, while The Wheel of Time always suffered from too many subplots, dozens of viewpoint characters and massive word count padding, in the earlier books it was easier to overlook this because Robert Jordan was able to write an interesting story into each thread of the epic. Then came Crossroads of Twilight, when the first section of the book was dedicated to showing what various characters had been doing during the Battle of Shadar Logoth, which was essentially 'nothing at all.' Crossroads of Twilight was seen as the weakest book in the series for this reason.
- In the Bitterbynde trilogy's first book, The Ill-Made Mute, the characters frequently sit down and begin to tell a Tale-within-a-Tale, usually some retelling of a known myth about magical creatures. This fit in with the book's easygoing pace, the characters in question, and it helps to build the world of Erith as a world where such occurrences are commonplace. The prose is also lavish and very detailed, but again, it's used well and it creates a beautiful and distinct world in the reader's head. By the time the second book rolls around, the easygoing pace is maddeningly slow, the prose has gotten to a point where the reader needs a dictionary handy at all times, and a knowledge of how to diagram a sentence, and the constant interruption with myths and folktales becomes a huge distraction and hindrance. The third book is nearly unreadable, for these and other reasons.
- Troy Steele at Blogger Beware argues that the Goosebumps series was ruined by its sixteenth book, One Day at Horrorland, long before the series' generally acknowledged decline. While Horrorland became one of the series' most popular books, it eschewed the semi-realistic approach of earlier Goosebumps entries, where ordinary kids encountered a low-key, supernatural menace (dummies, ghosts, haunted masks, etc.) within everyday environments, in favor of a fantasy environment heavily populated by monsters (with a complement of gross-out effects). Because Horrorland was such a hit, R.L. Stine revisited its basic formula again and again, to rapidly diminishing returns.
- Most fans of Harry Turtledove's Timeline-191 Alternate History saga agree that the series fell into Seasonal Rot around the middle of the American Empire trilogy, once Turtledove fully committed to turning the series into a repackaged American retelling of 20th century European history. Once Jake Featherston and the Freedom Party turned out to be American analogues of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party, anybody who passed 8th grade history could guess how the series would end. Some serious history buffs criticized Turtledove for failing to explore some potentially interesting implications of his historical setting, while others took issue with his occasional moments of Critical Research Failure as he repeatedly twisted his alternate vision of American history just to make it resemble actual European history more closely.
But in hindsight, most of these trends can be traced back to the more highly-regarded first installment in the series, How Few Remain. How Few Remain was ostensibly about the United States and the Confederate States fighting a theoretical Second Civil War in the 1880s—but if you know your European history, you'll notice that the Second Civil War is essentially a retelling of the Real Life Franco-Prussian War, with the US and the Confederate States standing in for France and Germany, and the contested Mexican territories of Sonora and Chihuahua standing in for Alsace and Lorraine. Even the thing about wasted storylines can be traced back to How Few Remain: a major plot point in that novel involves Emperor Maximilian I controlling the Second Mexican Empire in 1881, but the series never actually acknowledges what became of Benito Juárez's ongoing civil war with Maximilian's forces, or of Napoleon III's plan to use Maximilian as a pawn to establish his own North American Empire as a rival to the United States. note And of course, How Few Remain also involves a disgraced Abraham Lincoln becoming a Socialist organizer, despite there being little to no evidence that Lincoln ever held Socialist views—just to establish a plot arc involving Socialism becoming a major political force in America just as it did in Europe.
- From Cracked's Adam Tod Brown: "4 Classic Rap Albums That Ruined Rap Music."
- The Notorious B.I.G.'s Ready to Die for "marrying rap and high fashion". His slick, suave persona stood out in a crowded genre that, until then, was dominated by a gritty, inner-city gang banger image, allowing him to sell Gangsta Rap to a mainstream that was still a bit uneasy with such content. In the long run, though, he wound up being the Trope Maker for Glam Rap, which completely took over hip-hop in the coming decade. Brown later doubled down on this assessment, going so far as to claim that, had Biggie never been murdered, the path of his career and music in the ensuing years would've mirrored that of Puff Daddy (who was his mentor and boss at Bad Boy Records) or Jay-Z.
- Raekwon the Chef and Ghostface Killah's Only Built 4 Cuban Linx starting the trend of rappers taking on several different personas and alter-egos.
- LL Cool J's Bigger and Deffer, particularly the song "I Need Love", inflicting the rap ballad on the world. While "I Need Love" was a great song, few rappers have been able to do the rap ballad half as well as LL Cool J.
- De La Soul's 3 Feet High and Rising and De La Soul Is Dead popularizing 'skits', which break up the flow of an album and are rarely all that interesting.
- Every album Ministry put out in the 2000s seemed like an extended political Author Tract, but they first dabbled in political themes on 1986's Twitch, meaning political lyrics have been a part of Ministry's music longer than guitars.
- "Believe" from Cher and the abuse of Auto-Tune. Before then, Auto-Tune was primarily used for its intended goal of (minor) pitch correction. However, Cher liked the sound it gave to her voice and decided to keep it. It worked for "Believe" since, as a techno-pop song, it was supposed to sound weird and otherworldly, and that song was a massive hit. However, ever since, Auto-Tune has slowly started to take over pop music, with almost every song having a weird robotic element to the vocals, even songs that aren't supposed to sound weird and otherworldly.
- Lupe Fiasco was lauded for his political and social commentary in a genre that, by the '00s, was largely more pop-oriented, cleverly exploring topics like urban poverty and greed on his albums Food & Liquor and The Cool. Both of these albums are very highly regarded in 2000s hip-hop. However, his subsequent albums Lasers and Food & Liquor II were accused of trying to do the same, but with less subtlety. While Some Anvils Need to Be Dropped, general fan consensus is not as positive on his subsequent albums.
- Eminem received a lot of praise and controversy for his use of boundary-pushing gross-out humor on his first three albums, The Slim Shady LP, The Marshall Mathers LP, and The Eminem Show. Encore and Relapse, however, were accused of turning the humor and accents Up to Eleven, without as many of the substantial songs that balanced it out on the first three albums, and are generally viewed as the weakest in his discography. Eminem himself has expressed some Creator Backlash towards these albums, and has claimed his drug addiction as a reason as to why Encore and Relapse feel so all over the place.
- Post-Grunge is The Scrappy of music genres for Generation X listeners, who by and large view it as a betrayal of everything that grunge stood for, taking a genre that was born as a backlash against corporate rock and turning it into a symbol of such. Yet the warning signs were there as early as Nirvana's Nevermind, the landmark album that catapulted grunge into the spotlight, which came to be known as much for its epic riffs and (by grunge standards) fairly polished and commercial sound as it was for its Darker and Edgier lyrics and subject matter. Kurt Cobain himself came to develop very conflicted feelings towards Nevermind, particularly the single "Smells Like Teen Spirit", largely for this reason, and Nirvana's follow-up album In Utero (which, notably, a large contingent of fans sees as Nirvana's true masterpiece) quite deliberately had a more abrasive, less mainstream sound in an attempt to turn off what Cobain saw as the band's Misaimed Fandom. Even as early as 1997, before Post-Grunge had fully emerged as the dominant brand of American rock, music critic Chuck Eddy had noted that Nirvana pioneered its most overdone tropes.
"Nirvana popularized the hokey 'here comes the part of the song where we have a tantrum' school of '90s rock that's played a major role in hiding Courtney's powerful voice ever since, and they were pioneers of the 'you can tell this song is serious because we're playing it really slow' school as well."
- When Queen released the album The Game in 1980, with its disco and Synth Pop influences, it managed to be a smash hit in the US (where it made about half its sales), even though disco was undergoing heavy backlash there at the time. It's still considered one of their better albums, yet on their 1982 follow-up Hot Space, they embraced disco whole-hog. Hot Space was lambasted for its deviations from the band's traditional rock style, and while Queen's international popularity would quickly bounce back, Americans wouldn't take them seriously again until after the death of Freddie Mercury in 1991.
- Whereas the first two Doors albums, The Doors and Strange Days, are good enough that even the filler material is compelling, from Waiting For the Sun onwards the band increasingly came to be consumed by its esoteric mystique - the very same quality that had helped to fuel its success in the first place. The band's impenetrable Word Salad lyrics weren't too distracting when the music itself was so enjoyable, but the combination of inscrutable lyrics and mediocre tunes was just too much of a hurdle for the later albums to surmount...until L.A. Woman, that is.
- Disco began as just that: music played in discos. In a setting where people are dancing, songs with a constant uptempo beat, musical repetition and extended length are welcome, and in the right hands those things could be used as the basis for well-crafted music. But once disco hit the mainstream and everyone started playing Follow the Leader, those characteristics started to annoy people and the backlash was inevitable.
- Linkin Park's Minutes to Midnight was widely criticized for the lack of rapping and Mike Shinoda's presence on vocals in general, with Chester Bennington taking up all the spotlight. However, two of the most popular songs from Meteora - "Numb" and "Breaking the Habit" - did not feature any rapping, and the latter didn't feature Shinoda on vocals at all. This was tolerated back then, because the rest of the album had Shinoda featured prominently, but when he's Demoted To Backing Vocalist, and Chester was the de facto frontman, that's when people objected. This has since been acknowledged, as Shinoda has been rapping (and also, singing) much more prominently in their later albums.
- Luke Bryan's later material is often held up as a shining example of "bro-country", a particular strain of Country Music derided for its lightweight pop-influenced sound and Fratbro-esque lyrics that paint an over-idealized portrayal of life in the rural South. Yet the latter trait could be seen as far back as his first album I'll Stay Me with "Country Man".
- Metallica's 1991 Self-Titled Album (known to fans as "The Black Album") was criticized by longtime fans for moving away from their trademark Thrash Metal style, but it was not only by far the most successful album of their career, it was one of the best-selling albums of all time, earning them legions of new fans. However, their subsequent albums Load in 1996, Reload in 1997, and St. Anger in 2003 saw them increasingly move towards mainstream hard rock, producing what came to be viewed as a Dork Age for the band in the '90s and '00s.
- WWE has the breakup of The Rockers. The immense success Shawn Michaels found after the breakup was good for the business no question, even taking the diva persona Shawn acquired as a result of it into account, but Marty Jannetty's fade into obscurity was unfortunate. The plan was for both members of the team to become big single's stars but it came to be that, in trying to duplicate the success of Shawn Michaels, the WWE broke up a lot of popular tag teams and instead of getting one good single's star out of it usually ended up with two wrestlers fading into obscurity and eventually this behavior all but destroyed the tag team division. Right before WWE's tag team division could be considered dead there was an unexpected revival in the 90s...only for the sin of the Rockers to be committed once again in what would become a recurrence.
- The success of ECW lead to an influx of garbage wrestlers who could not wrestle well but could bump, swing stuff around or were willing to jump off high places to the USA scene, and also popularized valets mainly there to do "cat fights". These did not originate in ECW, but this is where they caught on. Abdullah the Butcher, The Sheik, Dick The Bruiser, those guys could still work traditional matches well... Sandman not so much. Also, the ECW women typically had more to their roles during their early to mid years but as ECW wound down...rolling around and broncho busters were about all women did. Prior garbage feds like FMW tended to produce some of the most fearsome women divisions on the planet. Following in ECW's wake, XPW, IWA Mid-South and CZW would magnify these flaws to new heights (though in fairness, the latter two would learn from their mistakes and outlast ECW).
- "Stone Cold" Steve Austin's refusal to tap out to Bret Hart in their iconic Submission Match created a trend for future wrestlers. It was the career defining match that set the tone for Austin's gimmick for years. His refusal to tap out would actually become a reoccuring topic when he turned Heel. Although there were wrestlers (namely Hulk Hogan) who also never tapped out, Austin was the first person they ever brought attention to. In more recent years, wrestlers like John Cena have been criticized for never tapping out and tapping out in general being treated like a coward's action.
- WWE giving the women's title to Sable, a model who had not gone through developmental nor wrestled on the independent, territorial or foreign circuits. Sable went beyond needing to be carried; she flat out refused to take bumps. Still, her popularity revived interest in the division and led to talented wrestlers putting on good matches - not to mention that Sable was quite muscular for a model, so, Kayfabe aside, the idea of her powerbombing someone was at least plausible. The sin was actually having Sable win the title from Jacqueline, which necessitated she be exposed in extended matches and set up Trish Stratus, another inexperienced model, getting the title when it was vacated. While Trish, to her credit, became a respectable talent despite her beginnings, WWE continued to push models with little to no wrestling experience, to the point it had to take the title off television altogether when the roster overflowed with inadequately trained people who were not learning as quickly as Trish and could not appeal to audiences as Sable could and didn't have enough carriers to offset the low level of performance.
- The First WWE Diva Search added nothing to the program in the long run but did not do any damage either, as everyone soon forgot about it. What everyone remembers is the 2004 quarter-million-dollar Diva Search, which lead to a football player from the Lingerie Bowl with no wrestling experience coming straight to television with with a bigger paycheck than half the roster. That in itself would not have been so bad if not for the aforementioned sin of Sable, which lead to three mainstays being released in favor of runner ups from the 2004 Diva Search, who stayed on longer than the fan-voted winner. This decision was the direct cause of the women's title being removed from television, and there were three more Diva Searches before the fans made it clear enough was enough. At least the last two actually kept the winners over the runners-up.
- The Rock's return to the WWE between Wrestlemania 28 and Wrestlemania 29 might appear to be shaping up into one. When it happened, almost everybody was happy: the fans were happy to see The Rock return, WWE got some mainstream press (which they're always desperate for,) and in general, despite the flaws in the execution, all was good. However, when WWE saw the surge they got from a returning legend, they've tried desperately to make that same lightning strike twice, bringing multiple former Superstars back, including Chris Jericho, Rob Van Dam, Brock Lesnar, the New Age Outlaws, Batista and Sting. Some have worked, some haven't, but as a whole, the sheer number of them are seen as damaging. It creates difficulty in working angles and building momentum due to their spotty appearances, which can damage the push of younger wrestlers who are working with them. The sheer number of them who are clogging up the roster, and the short-term rise in popularity, could potentially hurt WWE long-term by not giving their rising stars the time to become the main-event performers they need to be when the current generation starts to step down. While most of the returning Superstars themselves are very popular, the term "part-timers" has become a dirty word among WWE fans.
- The common complaint about Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition and its permutations was being too focused on spellcasting to the point of casters being broken. Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards, in truth, had always been around in D&D. There's a reason nearly every high-level character in most settings was a caster; the original 1st Edition Player's Handbook has dozens of spells that hit Story-Breaker Power level. 3e simply removed many of the things that had made casters something of a gamble to play, while also making warrior-type classes much less impressive. In particular, the lament of warriors being tactically boring was even worse in 1st Edition, where warriors had almost no options outside of simple attacks. It was acceptable then, because the warrior still had an important job and role, but when the casters could take care of themselves, the warrior-type characters resigned themselves to a long career of saying "I move and attack" over and over. This was also due to a fundamental change in focus; the main benefit of Fighting Men in the early editions was that they gathered political power and armies of followers while being the only ones that could use things like magic swords. When magic items became democratized and the focus shifted much more to small-scale adventure parties this all became meaningless. Basically wizards still got to be Merlin, but fighters got demoted from "Arthur" to "Third Knight From the Left".
- Conversely, the common complaint about 4th Edition - namely, most classes feeling like they played the same - was present in 3rd as well with the Tome of Battle classes. Tome of Battle was a well-received sourcebook in many circles for giving melee characters more options and a more interesting playstyle, but it did so in a manner quite similar to spellcasting, to the point of being affectionately named "The Book of Weeaboo Fightan Magic." However, martial adepts still felt very different to spellcasters - not only were maneuvers a distinct system, but individual maneuvers didn't really look or function like the vast majority of spells. 4th decided to make a system largely based on Tome of Battle's the system that every class used - and consequently, many classes wound up feeling unnaturally similar in terms of what their abilities did, with the majority of nearly every class's abilities coming down to "you do xdx damage plus your ability modifier and something else happens."
- A common gripe about 4th Edition was it being too encouraging to a "magic items grow on trees" mindset, accusing it of being a Monty Haul edition. But the roots of this dated back to 3rd, which had a wealth-by-level chart in the Dungeon Master's Guide that encouraged DMs to give their players a specific amount of gold to buy magic items with. Adventurers wearing impressive magical gear even at low levels and the "magic mart" mindset were worked into the game - it was simply an effort to make sure that the DM didn't wind up overequipping or underequipping the party. Where 4th Edition differed was actively building the wealth-by-level chart into the game's design, virtually requiring players to have specific level-appropriate magical gear just to keep up with their enemies - a DM who didn't use wealth-by-level in 3e was merely making the game harder for his players, a DM who didn't use wealth-by-level in 4e was pretty much signing the party's death warrant. As if to underline this, the magic item section was moved from the Dungeon Master's Guide to the Player's Handbook. The result was that magic items no longer carried the special nature of their earlier counterparts, becoming something expected rather than desired, and low-magic games or settings became an exercise in suicide. It's almost certainly not a coincidence that the next edition, 5th, scaled back this mindset hard, removing the prices on almost all magic items bar basic healing items and pretty much explicitly claiming that "magic marts" don't exist.
- In turn, 3e's availability of magic items was something some gamers had already expected, growing up as they did on the Gold Box adaptations of D&D. Given the low graphic quality, single player mode, and limited options for storylines, the license use was essentially down to using trademarked cover art and names for monsters and especially magic items and spells. In first and second editions of the game, it was virtually impossible (and not especially worth the effort) for a magic-user to copy all existing spells into his spellbook; in the Gold Box games, it was not only worth the effort, it made the magic-user the single most important member of the party. When the players whose first taste of D&D was these games tried to join actual tabletop, they found the comparative scarcity of magic punishing, and DMs (and writers) tried to accommodate.
- Virtually from release of the open gaming license, prestige classes were both lauded and loathed, allowing esoteric combinations to turn normal characters into Tank Mages, rendering significant portions of the party useless. This was, however, already true in the core books themselves, with the Dragon Disciple nominally being an advanced sorcerer but proving vastly more powerful as a monk. Moreover, in second edition, dual-classing was often considered a waste of time, but could eventually produce a mage/fighter with virtually none of the weaknesses of the individual class. Before even that, first edition had an obscure section of the Dungeon Master's Guide that allowed players to combine several classes to take an advanced class, the only one of its kind in those days, to be a warrior-legend based on old viking tales: the Bard.
- Fourth edition's version of magic was often cited as dumbed down compared to prior editions, with only a handful of spells available, and themselves only usable once per encounter or day for the most part. Despite these claims, this was true from the game's earliest days, with just varied window dressing. Outside of mainstays like magic missile and fireball, for instance, almost none of the magic-user's spells were part of their daily repertoire unless the player was planning an exception, and high-level spells could only be cast once or twice a day before the character needed to refresh their memory; fourth edition merely stripped the spells most players rarely used anyway... Outside of role-play or strategy against specific enemies, at least.
- Shadowrun, being a Cyber Punk game, always had a focus on gritty Anti Heroic player characters getting by in a gritty world. But, as editions went by, the designers dug deeper and deeper pits for the setting, until, by the end of 4th Edition, Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy was settling in. There Are No Good Executives, and every Shadowrunner is an amoral jerk who'll do any old horrible thing for a quick buck at best, with the game designers actively pooh-poohing the idea of Shadowrunning teams having any kinds of morals or standards on the forums. Fifth edition has its flaws, being littered with poorly-adapted design artifacts from earlier versions of the game, but many players are just happy it's finally trying to reverse that particular trend.
- One of the most common issues readers have had with Act 6 of Homestuck was how it added more characters from its beginning, particularly the "player"-type characters that use an online chatting device. This led to a greater amount of dialogue and caused complaints that the plot was moving along too slowly or that the new characters were not as likable as the old. This was also present in Act 5 when the trolls were introduced, only they led to an explosion in the story's popularity while Act 6 has slowly driven readers away. A general opinion was that the new human characters of Act 6 were not as memorable or unique as the original trolls once were, the new trolls being minor joke characters with the purpose of attacking sections of the fandom came off as a harsh waste of world-building, and that the cast expansion overall failed to re-capture the lightning in the bottle that the twelve initial trolls succeeded in.
- Discussed in an episode of Midnight Screenings. Brian mentions that he initially liked the first Transformers film because it was different from the sequels, but after re-watching it admits that the movie has "the same shit [as the other films], just less of it".
- Yu-Gi-Oh! The Abridged Series:
- While this abridged series was always a very funny and clever show, it did sometimes rely a bit too much on running gags and pop culture references, even if there wasn't necessarily a joke attached to the reference. Those who don't like the later seasons will usually say it's because the episodes became nothing but running gags and references.
- "Yu-Gi-Oh! DMX", a running gag of Yu-Gi-Oh! GX characters being depicted as rap artists, originated from one of the most well-liked episodes of the series. People liked it then because it was just a doofy one-off gag, and pretty funny at that. After that episode, nearly every single episode mentioning GX had a reference to it being a stupid show about rap — which, on top of being a Shallow Parody, resulted in fans of GX getting harassed at conventions and a backlash against the Abridged Series. It's one of the few jokes LK has outright apologized for.
- PIEGUYRULZ invokes this with his assessment of Adventure Time versus Steven Universe where he talks about the flaws of the former that were apparent since the beginning, but were ignored because there wasn't anything quite like it on TV at the time. He even compares it to breaking up with someone, then realizing the flaws that weren't there with the newfound perspective.
- The Nostalgia Critic:
- One of the most base-breaking aspects of the post-2013 videos are the sketches and cutaway gags, with many feeling that they take too much time away from the reviews. However, sketches are nothing new to the series and have been featured since the early days, and some episodes from what's considered the "classic" era like Home Alone 3 featuring recurring segments that wouldn't feel too out of place in the modern videos. The difference is that sketches in the earlier reviews were used more sparingly and not in nearly every episode, they were also much shorter, lasting up to half a minute at most, and also only focused on Critic himself, while modern sketches are in most reviews, can take up to a few minutes, and focus on gags between new additions Malcolm and Rachel (later on, Tamara), which could often extend a review to over 40 minutes.
- Reviews on more recent films. The Critic did review films from the 2000s prior to the retool, but the difference there is they were usually from the earliest part of the decade (2000-2002) with a few movies occasionally being from after such as Superbabies (2004) or TMNT (2007), due to special request, and these were considered more acceptable since they were mainly one-offs. He would also often talk about characters, films, and specials from more recent times in his countdown lists, but this was usually given more leeway due to still featuring nostalgic works as well being mixed in. Now in his modern videos, he primarily talks about movies from the later 2000s and 2010s and even movies still in theaters, which has made some people wonder why it's still called "The Nostalgia Critic" due to it being an Artifact Title.
- Twitch Plays Pokémon: Democracy was introduced in the very first run, Red, and was used there more frequently than in many of the runs that followed—yet it's often considered the sign of why TPP has declined.
- In Tom and Jerry, the title characters would in some of the original shorts be friends and speak, though rarely (and something would always come between their friendship, making them fight again). These elements are what is most reviled about The Tom And Jerry Show from the 1970's, and Tom and Jerry: The Movie.
- While the show Goof Troop was well-received and considered a good show in its own right, many have blamed it for planting the seeds for the Totally Radical attitude and theme that took over many later shows for the Disney Afternoon television block; the shows that had taken on those themes were considered the killers of the block itself during the latter half of the '90's.
- The Simpsons:
- The season 4 episode "Marge vs. the Monorail", considered one of the greatest of all time, is now the most fan-rewritten as a 'modern' Simpsons episode to illustrate how badly the show has fallen into Seasonal Rot: It has a lot of elements that have come to be abused during its seasonally rotten years: celebrity cameos (Leonard Nimoy as himself), Homer being the main focus of the plot and showing him with a new job that only lasts one episode, a Big Lipped Alligator Moment (Homer singing the theme to The Flintstones), and the needless musical number that also has no plot relevance. Suffice it to say, these days, this would be more at home as a Family Guy episode, not a Simpsons one.
- Back when it started, the series was revolutionary when compared to other cynical shows centered on a dysfunctional family because it was an animated show set in Comic-Book Time and with Negative Continuity. The family could go anywhere, interact with anyone, and do anything without having to care about budget constraints, actors that wanted to leave or children that grew up. However, after 20 years that original strength has turned into its biggest constraint. Bart and Lisa behave like teenagers, but they are still 10 and 8 and go to the same elementary school, so the writers can't make them face the actual teenage (or young adult) problems they would be dealing with by now if the show was live-acted; Marge and Homer have gone through countless marriage crises and been thrown into jail countless times, but they have to go back home together at the end; Maggie feels more like a prop than a character in most episodes because the writers can't think of new plotlines starring a baby, etc. As a result, the show has become stalled and boring.
- Pop culture references, including cutaway gags and episode-length spoofs, have been a staple of The Simpsons since its earliest seasons (eg. "Bart the General" riffing on Patton, "Kamp Krusty" on Apocalypse Now, "Stark Raving Dad" on One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, etc.). Generally, though, earlier episodes tend to spoof classic movies and TV shows, where more recent episodes tend to parody recent films or cultural trends. Which wouldn't necessarily be bad, except most such episodes wind up only spoofing a film/show's most obvious aspects, and their subjects are far more likely to become completely forgotten soon after.
- One of the show's favorite tactics since the earliest seasons has been to start off the first act with an unrelated plot (for instance, Homer Badman's first act is about Homer and Marge going to a candy convention). It worked then, because they always used the opening plot to lead into the main plot (Homer pulling a piece of candy off the babysitter's butt and getting sued for sexual harassment). As time goes on, though, the transitions between plots have become increasingly abrupt and threadbare, to the point that these first-act plots could probably be cut from the episode entirely, and are used as little more than padding because the main plot can't stand up on its own.
- "Lisa Goes Gaga" was widely seen as the nadir of the show in terms of celebrity guests, with many people being disgusted by how the series treated their Celebrity Voice Actor as a glorious messianic figure who saves the family. But the root of this issue lies in Season 1's "Moaning Lisa " and Season 3's "Lisa's Substitute," often considered some of the show's most soulful episodes - they even focused on Lisa, just like "Lisa Goes Gaga." The difference was that in those episodes, neither Ron Taylor nor Dustin Hoffman played themselves - they were likeable, competent, friendly characters who happened to be played by celebrities, which made it feel like the celebrity was lending their talent to bringing the character to life. When celebrities did go As Themselves in early seasons, it was in incidental roles, with no small amount of Adam Westing, and they usually came off as jerks or weirdos (such as Leonard Nimoy above and Adam West himself). These celebrities were either used to further characters or add jokes to an episode, not being added for their own sake, and never in such a manner that made the episode feel like it was fellating them - something that later episodes would roundly ignore.◊
- "Rubber-band reality" was a term coined by Matt Groening to allow for more out-there gags. It essentially dictated that the show could have absurd, silly, or unrealistic gags, so long as they were only gags and quickly ignored afterward - essentially, they could "stretch" the reality of the show, but they would always have to let it "snap back." For instance, in "Last Exit To Springfield," Burns breaks out a pair of Killer Robots in the hopes of using them as strikebreakers, but the scene lasts thirty seconds and has no bearing on the plot, which remains fairly down-to-earth. As the series went on, the "rubber band" of reality would be stretched further and further, to the point where they started forgetting to snap it back altogether - as early as Season 6, one episode featured Killer Robots trying to murder the family as the episode's climax. By Season 11, which featured magical jockey elves, octuplets, tomacco, and the family casually hanging out with celebrities, the rubber-band reality had escalated into full-on Reverse Cerebus Syndrome.
- As the Ben 10 franchise has gone on, one of the most major complaints about it is that many aliens in the sequels use similar abilities, as well as many outright having the same power. Surprisingly, the first show could run into this problem too, with a few aliens with redundant abilities that could sometimes render another alien obsolete (Benvicktor/Frankenstrike, along with super strength, has lightning powers, and generally does everything Fourarms could do, except without the arms). Omniverse is also similarly criticized for its overt focus on old elements, pandering to first-series fans, and sometimes script-recycling. These elements can be traced to its immediate predecessor too, with most major plot elements being recycled from the original show (Kevin's insanity and being a composite form of Ben's aliens, which were heavily referenced) and featuring a guest appearance from the original Ben.
- SpongeBob SquarePants:
- A common complaint about modern day episodes is the tendency to overhype regular episodes as huge specials. This trend started back during season 3 of the show, which is often considered to be during the show's golden age. Also, the show's oft-criticized descent into gross-out humor and Getting Crap Past the Radar started as early as season 2, with "Something Smells" revolving entirely around the joke that SpongeBob's breath stinks and he doesn't realize it. Typically though, it would be limited to one or two Cutaway Gags per episode, whereas more recent seasons feature whole episodes centered around SpongeBob getting a splinter or contracting a fungal infection. Many have pointed out how the main problem stemmed from the writers attempting to emulate the style of episodes from Stephen Hillenburg's first tenure as showrunner without proper knowledge as to how he was able to make it work.
- Mr. Krabs in later seasons has become infamous for his tendency to do underhanded, immoral, or even illegal things if it means turning a quick buck. However, even in the first three seasons he was shown use tactics like animal abuse, forcing his employees to use an ancient diseased patty, or selling SpongeBob's soul for 62 cents in the name of profit. The difference, though, is that whenever he crossed a line in the first few seasons, he was generally punished for it or at least realized the error of his ways. In many later episodes, Krabs gets away with a slap on the wrist, if that.
- One of the biggest complaints people have with the modern series is the way they treat Squidward. This was in the Pre-Movie episodes, believe it or not. Thing is, Squidward was an arrogant jerk at best, was someone the audience would Love to Hate. Whenever the episode was sympathetic, they usually brought in someone even worse, namely Sqiuilliam. As such, the audience usually laughed at Squidward's misfortune. Then they tried mixing both sympathetic and misfortunate portrayals, to diminishing results.
- Pre-uncancellation Family Guy already showed many of the traits that would fully manifest once it came back, including Cutaway Gags, Overly Long Gags and the main characters bordering on Unsympathetic Comedy Protagonists. In the earlier seasons these were balanced out and broken up enough that it wasn't as much of a problem, and the formula was new enough that they were still genuinely surprising when they happened and not expected as they are now.
- The criticism of religious people seen in the series can be spotted as early as Season 2, with Holy Crap focusing on Peter’s Catholic father Francis who comes and makes things worse for the Griffin family while living in the family's house. However, Francis is balanced out by the Pope who is a Reasonable Authority Figure and grows impatient with Francis’s nastiness, implying the issues with Peter's father are more linked to zealotry and a general mean attitude rather than completely stemming from Catholicism. This is to contrast with the infamous Season 7 episode Not All Dogs Go To Heaven, which has the Family-Unfriendly Aesop of it being wrong to practice religion all together.
- The signs of the Avatar series focusing on teenage romance and Ship Tease at the expense of plot and character development could be seen all the way back in the original series, as later seasons gave those subplots more focus in response to the creators realizing how large and vocal the shipping community was, but because the 3 season story arc had already been planned out there was only so much room for those scenes to be inserted and for the most part they didn't feel like they got in the way. Come The Legend of Korra, which had a brand new story arc built from scratch around older teen protagonists, and the creators put in far more romance and a Love Triangle from the second episode to the point it became a Romantic Plot Tumor that made many fans dislike one of the central characters (Mako) and the rest of the plot, including the main antagonist and the social forces behind his movement, felt rushed and underutilized. Later seasons tried to undo the damage by having Mako and Korra break up, and fan consensus is that it wasn't until season 3 that the story began to truly feel more balanced. Another major factor is that unlike the first series, the first two seasons of Korra were written under the possibility that they could be the end of the story. Seasons 3 and 4 were made back to back and feature far more confidence in shoving the romantic material to the side.
- Part of the reason Chowder became popular was its heavy usage of Painting the Medium and fourth wall breaking jokes. In the final season, gags about breaking the fourth wall became so overused that the novelty wore off.
- Many long-time Scooby-Doo fans have argued that the franchise's formula stopped working around the time that they tried to bring real monsters into the show (notably in The 13 Ghosts of Scooby-Doo, the direct-to-video movies, and the live-action films), which killed the elements of mystery that gave the original series its charm. While the original Scooby-Doo, Where Are You! generally stuck to the famous Scooby-Doo Hoax for most of its stories, genuinely supernatural elements have been around as far back as that series, and not all of its Monsters of the Week turned out to be costumed crooks. The villain of "Foul Play in Funland" was a real robot gone haywire, one scene in "A Night of Fright is No Delight" had a bone floating onto Scooby's plate with no explanation given, and the supporting characters in "That's Snow Ghost" were implied to have faced a real Yeti in a flashback.
- While fans of Rugrats have many different ideas about what caused its Seasonal Rot, the show's increasing reliance on extended over-the-top Imagine Spots is sometimes held up as a symptom of its declining quality, as it increasingly shifted the focus away from the simple day-to-day struggles of the toddlers. In truth, though, the show was always known for its surreal and fantastical overtones—but in its early days, the toddlers didn't need Imagine Spots to make their world seem like a bizarre wonderland, because the quirky writing and animation made the entire setting seem surreal; the Imagine Spots just drew a clear line between the mundane world and the world of the kids' imaginations, where none had existed before. Case in point: compare Season 2's "Toy Palace" with Season 6's "Submarine". The former revolves around the ensuing hilarity when Tommy and Chuckie spend the night in a sprawling toy store that (apparently) includes life-size robotic gorilla toys, automated Old West towns, and a working time machine; the latter just has the kids pretending that a van at a car lot is a submarine.
- Season 3 onwards of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic (including the first Equestria Girls movie) face criticism for the number of villains and bullies who get Easily Forgiven. The trend started at the end of the second episode in which Princess Luna was immediatly forgiven for trying to bring eternal darkness on the world. The only difference is that Luna was acting under the control of her Superpowered Evil Side making it a bit easier to overlook the situation.
- One of the many things fans/detractors complain about regarding Teen Titans Go! is the Family-Unfriendly Violence. And while this complaint is sometimes justified (the complaint is usually that the Titans are violent towards each other), complaints regarding violence in general are a bit strange, since the original cartoon was an action series where the characters used violence in every other episode. The difference with TTG is that it's a comedy.