History Main / FranchiseOriginalSin

21st Nov '17 9:05:08 PM Kelothan
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* ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'': The ArcFatigue has always been there. In Season 2, the search for Malachite, despite the buildup, is put on hold about halfway through and had to be resolved in the next season. The difference there is that the season still had a StoryArc to tell, two in fact, [[spoiler:The Cluster, and Peridot's redemption]]. Season 3, on the other hand, had a series of {{Filler}} episodes in-between Malachite's defeat and the reemergence of Jasper, and Season 4 had a similar one regarding ''its'' story arcs (the Human Zoo, and Aquamarine's kidnappings), making this problem far harder to ignore.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'': The ArcFatigue has feelings of ArcFatigue, a critism of later seasons, have always been there. In Season 2, the search for Malachite, despite all the buildup, is put on hold about halfway through and had to be resolved in the next season. The difference there is that the season still had a StoryArc to tell, two in fact, [[spoiler:The Cluster, and Peridot's redemption]]. Season 3, on the other hand, had a series of {{Filler}} episodes in-between Malachite's defeat and the reemergence of Jasper, and Season 4 had a similar one regarding ''its'' story arcs (the Human Zoo, and Aquamarine's kidnappings), making this problem far harder to ignore.
20th Nov '17 11:08:36 PM Etheru
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* ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'': The ArcFatigue has always been there. In Season 2, the search for Malachite, despite the build is, is put on hold about halfway through and had to be resolved in the next season. The difference there is that the season still had a StoryArc to tell, two in fact, [[spoiler:The Cluster, and Peridot's redemption]]. Season 3, on the other hand, had a series of {{Filler}} episodes in-between Malachite's defeat and the reemergence of Jasper, and Season 4 had a similar one regarding ''its'' story arcs (the Human Zoo, and Aquamarine's kidnappings), making this problem far harder to ignore.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'': The ArcFatigue has always been there. In Season 2, the search for Malachite, despite the build is, buildup, is put on hold about halfway through and had to be resolved in the next season. The difference there is that the season still had a StoryArc to tell, two in fact, [[spoiler:The Cluster, and Peridot's redemption]]. Season 3, on the other hand, had a series of {{Filler}} episodes in-between Malachite's defeat and the reemergence of Jasper, and Season 4 had a similar one regarding ''its'' story arcs (the Human Zoo, and Aquamarine's kidnappings), making this problem far harder to ignore.
20th Nov '17 3:45:19 PM lalalei2001
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** The Shadow Realm is an infamous example of NeverSayDie in dubbing, but it was in the original, except there it was just the shadow atmosphere that appeared whenever a shadow game took place.

to:

** The Shadow Realm is an infamous example of NeverSayDie in dubbing, but its effects on humans involved monsters tearing your soul to shreds, making it a case of DeaderThanDead. Since the anime also had a World of Darkness where Shadow Games took place and the Realm's effects were similar to the manga's horrific elements, this was easier to let go at the time--but when GX used euphemisms like "sent to the stars" ''without'' informed lethality it was in the original, except there easier to see it was just the shadow atmosphere that appeared whenever a shadow game took place.as NeverSayDie.
20th Nov '17 3:32:35 PM VeryMelon
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** Plague of Gripes [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwVuC3YOrc traces]] the problems with PowerLevels all the way back to the Mercenary Tao arc of the original ''Manga/DragonBall''. Prior to that time, Goku generally defeated people who could match him in a fight by learning new techniques, finding weaknesses in their fighting style, or getting help - but in the Tao arc, when Goku faces Tao again after going through TrainingFromHell, he doesn't demonstrate any new techniques or noticeably change up his fighting style; he just does everything he did before, looking exactly the same as before, but now it's arbitrarily enough to win because it's "stronger" now. It was a formula that worked out alright in that arc, partly because it was fairly satisfying and partly because it was new. But over the course of the franchise, the problem of PowerLevels being used to arbitrarily raise the stakes or resolve the conflict became overused to the point of comedy, and unlike the Tao arc, they would often be obtained through plot devices such as the zenkai boost or Super Saiyan [[HardWorkHardlyWorks rather than actual effort.]] This also began the recurring issue of higher PowerLevels being completely indistinguishable from lower ones aside from getting different results, but it wasn't as bad because the powerscale wasn't [[LensmanArmsRace as stupidly high as it would eventually become]], leading to the situation where fighters are intended to be ''trillions'' of times stronger, but seem to be on the same scale as King Piccolo most of the time.

to:

** [[WebVideo/TwoBestFriendsPlay Plague of Gripes Gripes]] [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPwVuC3YOrc traces]] the problems with PowerLevels all the way back to the Mercenary Tao arc of the original ''Manga/DragonBall''. Prior to that time, Goku generally defeated people who could match him in a fight by learning new techniques, finding weaknesses in their fighting style, or getting help - but in the Tao arc, when Goku faces Tao again after going through TrainingFromHell, he doesn't demonstrate any new techniques or noticeably change up his fighting style; he just does everything he did before, looking exactly the same as before, but now it's arbitrarily enough to win because it's "stronger" now. It was a formula that worked out alright in that arc, partly because it was fairly satisfying and partly because it was new. But over the course of the franchise, the problem of PowerLevels being used to arbitrarily raise the stakes or resolve the conflict became overused to the point of comedy, and unlike the Tao arc, they would often be obtained through plot devices such as the zenkai boost or Super Saiyan [[HardWorkHardlyWorks rather than actual effort.]] This also began the recurring issue of higher PowerLevels being completely indistinguishable from lower ones aside from getting different results, but it wasn't as bad because the powerscale wasn't [[LensmanArmsRace as stupidly high as it would eventually become]], leading to the situation where fighters are intended to be ''trillions'' of times stronger, but seem to be on the same scale as King Piccolo most of the time.
19th Nov '17 8:24:44 PM Isaac_Heller
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** A common criticism for the series is Ash's [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption continued inability to win a Pokémon League]]. While he's lost Leagues since the original series, at first the idea of the main character ''failing'' [[UnbuiltTrope to achieve his goals by the end was relatively novel]] (and at least he constantly managed to obtain a moral victory out of making it so far, which softened the blow and made his determination more endearing). Then the series not only kept making him lose, but did so [[DiabolusExMachina in increasingly contrived ways]] -- While Kanto had Ash's Pokémon [[WorfHadTheFlu exhausted]] because of Team Rocket and Johto had him fight Hoenn Pokémon, they at least made sense story wise. Sinnoh, on the other hand, had a one-off Trainer with ''[[OlympusMons legendaries]]'' on his team, Unova made Ash lose to a ditz with a five-against-six handicap (who didn't even win the League himself), and Kalos had Alain enter by collecting all the badges in a ridiculously small timeframe solely to fight and beat Ash, despite showing no interest in the League beforehand (the arc also didn't do itself any favors by [[TrailersAlwaysLie constantly making it look on advertising -- even on the title of the episode where Ash faces off against Alain -- that this time Ash was going to win]]. The fact that the arc aired during the franchise's [[LongRunners 25-year]] MilestoneCelebration added greatly to the misdirection and subsequent disappointment and FlameWar). Thanks to this, Ash [[MemeticLoser is commonly considered a]] FailureHero (that only gets said "moral victories" (such as Alain proclaiming him a better trainer in the aftermath) because it's the scraps the writers will let him have) and one of the show's weakest points.

to:

** A common criticism for the series is Ash's [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption continued inability to win a Pokémon League]]. While he's lost Leagues since the original series, at first the idea of the main character ''failing'' [[UnbuiltTrope to achieve his goals by the end was relatively novel]] (and at least he constantly managed to obtain a moral victory out of making it so far, which softened the blow and made his determination more endearing). Then the series not only kept making him lose, but did so [[DiabolusExMachina in increasingly contrived ways]] -- While Kanto had Ash's Pokémon [[WorfHadTheFlu exhausted]] because of Team Rocket and Johto had him fight Hoenn Pokémon, they at least made sense story wise. Sinnoh, on the other hand, had a one-off Trainer with ''[[OlympusMons legendaries]]'' on his team, Unova made Ash lose to a ditz with a five-against-six handicap (who didn't even win the League himself), and Kalos had Alain enter by collecting all the badges in a ridiculously small timeframe solely to fight and beat Ash, despite showing no interest in the League beforehand (the arc also didn't do itself any favors by [[TrailersAlwaysLie constantly making it look on advertising -- even on the title of the episode where Ash faces off against Alain -- that this time Ash was going to win]]. The fact that the arc aired during the franchise's [[LongRunners 25-year]] 20-year]] MilestoneCelebration added greatly to the misdirection and subsequent disappointment and FlameWar). Thanks to this, Ash [[MemeticLoser is commonly considered a]] FailureHero (that only gets said "moral victories" (such as Alain proclaiming him a better trainer in the aftermath) because it's the scraps the writers will let him have) and one of the show's weakest points.
19th Nov '17 4:45:37 PM MyFinalEdits
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** The Shadow Realm is one of ''the'' most riducled examples of NeverSayDie in dubbing, but it was in the original, except there it was just the shadow atmosphere that appeared whenever a shadow game took place.

to:

** The Shadow Realm is one of ''the'' most riducled examples an infamous example of NeverSayDie in dubbing, but it was in the original, except there it was just the shadow atmosphere that appeared whenever a shadow game took place.



* ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'': The ArcFatigue has always been there. In Season 2, the search for Malachite, despite the build is, is put on hold about halfway through and had to be resolved in the next season. The difference there is that the season still had a StoryArc to tell, two in fact, [[spoiler:The Cluster, and Peridot's redemption]]. Season 3, on the other hand, had a series of {{Filler}} episodes in-between Malachite's defeat and the reemergence of Jasper, and Season 4 had a similar one regarding ''it's'' story arcs (the Human Zoo, and Aquamarine's kidnappings), making this problem far harder to ignore.

to:

* ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'': The ArcFatigue has always been there. In Season 2, the search for Malachite, despite the build is, is put on hold about halfway through and had to be resolved in the next season. The difference there is that the season still had a StoryArc to tell, two in fact, [[spoiler:The Cluster, and Peridot's redemption]]. Season 3, on the other hand, had a series of {{Filler}} episodes in-between Malachite's defeat and the reemergence of Jasper, and Season 4 had a similar one regarding ''it's'' ''its'' story arcs (the Human Zoo, and Aquamarine's kidnappings), making this problem far harder to ignore.
19th Nov '17 4:24:10 PM Kelothan
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Added DiffLines:

* ''WesternAnimation/StevenUniverse'': The ArcFatigue has always been there. In Season 2, the search for Malachite, despite the build is, is put on hold about halfway through and had to be resolved in the next season. The difference there is that the season still had a StoryArc to tell, two in fact, [[spoiler:The Cluster, and Peridot's redemption]]. Season 3, on the other hand, had a series of {{Filler}} episodes in-between Malachite's defeat and the reemergence of Jasper, and Season 4 had a similar one regarding ''it's'' story arcs (the Human Zoo, and Aquamarine's kidnappings), making this problem far harder to ignore.
18th Nov '17 10:57:34 PM Kelothan
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Added DiffLines:

** The Shadow Realm is one of ''the'' most riducled examples of NeverSayDie in dubbing, but it was in the original, except there it was just the shadow atmosphere that appeared whenever a shadow game took place.
18th Nov '17 1:53:20 PM Ferot_Dreadnaught
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** Even earlier, the Season 2 finale is the first time Twilight's friends are relegated to glorified background ponies in two-part episodes.
16th Nov '17 7:03:32 PM BobRiddle
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Added DiffLines:

** Even earlier, the Season 2 finale is the first time Twilight's friends are relegated to glorified background ponies in two-part episodes.
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