History Main / FranchiseOriginalSin

20th Feb '17 6:35:21 PM kquinn0830
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Season 19, however, had a season-spanning arc that was tied into every episode, with the final three episodes (out of a ten-episode season) devoted purely to wrapping it up. The arc left the show feeling bloated, with less time to turn its satirical eye to other targets, losing the scattershot, highly topical humor that had been one of its trademarks. These problems only got worse in season 20, especially once [[RealLifeWritesThePlot real life wrote the plot]] and forced Creator/TreyParkerAndMattStone to hastily rewrite the final episode.[[note]]The planned resolution was that Mr. Garrison, running for President as a parody of Creator/DonaldTrump, would ultimately go down in defeat to UsefulNotes/HillaryRodhamClinton, as many people, Parker and Stone included, were predicting Trump would do against Clinton in real life. Trump ''winning'' left Parker and Stone blindsided and derailed the resolution they'd spent a season building up to.[[/note]] The general consensus was that, on a show as famously rapid-fire and up-to-the-minute as ''South Park'', trying to do a long-form storyline just doesn't work.

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Season 19, however, had a season-spanning arc that was tied into every episode, with the final three episodes (out of a ten-episode season) devoted purely to wrapping it up. The arc left the show feeling bloated, with less time to turn its satirical eye to other targets, losing the scattershot, highly topical humor that had been one of its trademarks. These problems only got worse in season 20, especially once as every episode in the season was part of a linear story arc that continued from episode to episode, unlike season 19 where the episodes, while part of the overall season arc, had plots that were largely self-contained. Eventually, [[RealLifeWritesThePlot real life wrote the plot]] in a way they hadn't foreseen and forced Creator/TreyParkerAndMattStone to hastily rewrite the final episode.episodes to reflect it.[[note]]The planned resolution was that Mr. Garrison, running for President as a parody of Creator/DonaldTrump, would ultimately go down in defeat to UsefulNotes/HillaryRodhamClinton, as many people, Parker and Stone included, were predicting Trump would do against Clinton in real life. Trump ''winning'' left Parker and Stone blindsided and derailed the resolution they'd spent a season building up to.[[/note]] This left several sub plots that had been building up during the season being abandoned. The general consensus was that, on a show as famously rapid-fire and up-to-the-minute as ''South Park'', trying to do a long-form storyline just doesn't work.
19th Feb '17 9:12:05 PM RacattackForce
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** Back when it started, the series was revolutionary when compared to [[OlderThanTheyThink other]] cynical shows centered on a dysfunctional family because it was an animated show set in ComicBookTime ''and'' with NegativeContinuity. The family could go anywhere, interact with anyone, and do anything without having to care about budget constraints, actors that wanted to leave or children that grew up. However, after 20 years that original strength has turned into its biggest constraint. Bart and Lisa [[YoungerThanTheyLook behave like teenagers]], but they are still 10 and 8 and go to the same elementary school, so the writers can't make them face the actual teenage (or [[LongRunners young adult]]) problems they would be dealing with by now if the show was live-acted; Marge and Homer have gone through countless marriage crises and been thrown into jail countless times, but they have to go back home together at the end; Maggie feels more like a prop than a character in most episodes because the writers can't think of new plotlines starring a baby, etc. As a result, the show has become stalled and boring.

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** Back when it started, the series was revolutionary when compared to [[OlderThanTheyThink other]] cynical shows centered on a dysfunctional family because it was an animated show set in ComicBookTime ''and'' with NegativeContinuity. The family could go anywhere, interact with anyone, and do anything without having to care about budget constraints, actors that wanted to leave or children that grew up. However, after 20 years that original strength has turned into its biggest constraint. Bart and Lisa [[YoungerThanTheyLook behave like teenagers]], but they are still 10 and 8 and go to the same elementary school, so the writers can't make them face the actual teenage (or [[LongRunners young adult]]) problems they would be dealing with by now if the show was live-acted; live-acted or used WebcomicTime; Marge and Homer have gone through countless marriage crises and been thrown into jail countless times, but they have to go back home together at the end; Maggie feels more like a prop than a character in most episodes because the writers can't think of new plotlines starring a baby, etc. As a result, the show has become stalled and boring.
17th Feb '17 7:06:37 PM Sammettik
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* Many long-time ''Franchise/ScoobyDoo'' fans have argued that the franchise's formula stopped working around the time that they tried to bring ''real'' monsters into the show (notably in ''WesternAnimation/TheThirteenGhostsOfScoobyDoo'', [[WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooDirectToVideoFilmSeries the direct-to-video movies]], and [[Film/ScoobyDoo the live-action films]]), which killed the elements of mystery that gave the original series its charm. While the original ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooWhereAreYou'' generally stuck to the famous ScoobyDooHoax for most of its stories, genuinely supernatural elements have been around as far back as that series, and not all of its [[MonsterOfTheWeek Monsters of the Week]] turned out to be costumed crooks. The villain of "Foul Play in Funland" was a real robot gone haywire, one scene in "A Night of Fright is No Delight" had a bone floating onto Scooby's plate with no explanation given, and the supporting characters in "That's Snow Ghost" were implied to have faced a real Yeti in a flashback. Hell, ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooZombieIsland'' (usually regarded as the one of the best stories in the franchise) had it as a selling point that there were real monsters in it. The difference was that there was still a mystery to solve and several plot twists ([[spoiler:the zombies are on the heroes side for one]]) that it all felt natural.

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* Many long-time ''Franchise/ScoobyDoo'' fans have argued that the franchise's formula stopped working around the time that they tried to bring ''real'' monsters into the show (notably in ''WesternAnimation/TheThirteenGhostsOfScoobyDoo'', [[WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooDirectToVideoFilmSeries the direct-to-video movies]], and [[Film/ScoobyDoo the live-action films]]), which killed the elements of mystery that gave the original series its charm. While the original ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooWhereAreYou'' generally stuck to the famous ScoobyDooHoax for most of its stories, genuinely supernatural elements have been around as far back as that series, and not all of its [[MonsterOfTheWeek Monsters of the Week]] turned out to be costumed crooks. The villain of "Foul Play in Funland" was a real robot gone haywire, one scene in "A Night of Fright is No Delight" had a bone floating onto Scooby's plate with no explanation given, and the supporting characters in "That's Snow Ghost" were implied to have faced a real Yeti in a flashback. Hell, ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooZombieIsland'' ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooOnZombieIsland'' (usually regarded as the one of the best stories in the franchise) had it as a selling point that there were real monsters in it. The difference was that there was still a mystery to solve and several plot twists ([[spoiler:the zombies are on the heroes heroes' side for one]]) that it all felt natural.
16th Feb '17 2:45:41 PM Twentington
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* Music/LukeBryan's later material is often held up as a shining example of "bro-country", a particular strain of CountryMusic derided for its lightweight pop-influenced sound and {{Fratbro}}-esque lyrics that paint an [[SweetHomeAlabama over-idealized portrayal of life in the rural South]]. Yet the latter trait could be seen as far back as his first album ''I'll Stay Me'' with "Country Man".

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* Music/LukeBryan's later material is often held up as a shining example of "bro-country", a particular strain of CountryMusic derided for its lightweight pop-influenced sound and {{Fratbro}}-esque lyrics that paint an [[SweetHomeAlabama over-idealized portrayal of life in the rural South]]. Yet And what he didn't do, Music/FloridaGeorgiaLine's "Cruise" did, to the point that a review of the latter trait could be seen as far back as his first album ''I'll Stay Me'' with "Country Man".actually coined the term "bro-country".
13th Feb '17 2:00:38 PM ngh93
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* While fans of ''WesternAnimation/{{Rugrats}}'' have [[BrokenBase many different ideas]] about what caused its SeasonalRot, the show's increasing reliance on extended over-the-top {{Imagine Spot}}s is sometimes held up as a symptom of its declining quality, as it increasingly shifted the focus away from the simple day-to-day struggles of the toddlers. In truth, though, the show was ''always'' known for its surreal and fantastical overtones--but in its early days, the toddlers didn't ''need'' {{Imagine Spot}}s to make their world seem like a bizarre wonderland, because the quirky writing and animation made the entire setting seem surreal; the {{Imagine Spot}}s just drew a clear line between the mundane world and the world of the kids' imaginations, where none had existed before. Case in point: compare Season 2's "Toy Palace" with Season 6's "Submarine". The latter revolves around the [[HilarityEnsues ensuing hilarity]] when Tommy and Chuckie spend the night in a sprawling toy store that (apparently) includes life-size robotic gorilla toys, automated Old West towns, and ''a working time machine''; the former just has the kids pretending that a van at a car lot is a submarine.

to:

* While fans of ''WesternAnimation/{{Rugrats}}'' have [[BrokenBase many different ideas]] about what caused its SeasonalRot, the show's increasing reliance on extended over-the-top {{Imagine Spot}}s is sometimes held up as a symptom of its declining quality, as it increasingly shifted the focus away from the simple day-to-day struggles of the toddlers. In truth, though, the show was ''always'' known for its surreal and fantastical overtones--but in its early days, the toddlers didn't ''need'' {{Imagine Spot}}s to make their world seem like a bizarre wonderland, because the quirky writing and animation made the entire setting seem surreal; the {{Imagine Spot}}s just drew a clear line between the mundane world and the world of the kids' imaginations, where none had existed before. Case in point: compare Season 2's "Toy Palace" with Season 6's "Submarine". The latter former revolves around the [[HilarityEnsues ensuing hilarity]] when Tommy and Chuckie spend the night in a sprawling toy store that (apparently) includes life-size robotic gorilla toys, automated Old West towns, and ''a working time machine''; the former later just has the kids pretending that a van at a car lot is a submarine.
27th Jan '17 11:09:00 AM Kelothan
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** Unlike the games, the animé has always had a habit of depicting multiple legendary Pokémon existing (as opposed to being SingleSpecimenSpecies), as well as rarely, if ever, reusing old legendaries (the Celebi from ''Anime/PokemonZoroarkMasterOfIllusions'' is not the same one as the one from ''Anime/Pokemon4Ever'', for instance). Though few complained about this, that changed with ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened'' and its controversial move to use a brand new Mewtwo over the well-known and popular one from ''The First Movie''. Because Mewtwo was firmly established as a one-of-a-kind [[ArtificialHuman man-made Pokémon]] [[NoPlansNoPrototypeNoBackup who couldn't be replicated]] (and not naturally born like the aforementioned Celebi), many fans logically assumed it would be the same one from before, and thus were confused and upset when it turned out to be completely different.

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** Unlike the games, the animé has always had a habit of depicting multiple legendary Pokémon existing (as opposed to being implied SingleSpecimenSpecies), as well as rarely, if ever, reusing old legendaries (the Celebi from ''Anime/PokemonZoroarkMasterOfIllusions'' is not the same one as the one from ''Anime/Pokemon4Ever'', for instance). Though few complained about this, that changed with ''Anime/PokemonGenesectAndTheLegendAwakened'' and its controversial move to use a brand new Mewtwo over the well-known and popular one from ''The First Movie''. Because Mewtwo was firmly established as a one-of-a-kind [[ArtificialHuman man-made Pokémon]] [[NoPlansNoPrototypeNoBackup who couldn't be replicated]] (and not naturally born like the aforementioned Celebi), many fans logically assumed it would be the same one from before, and thus were confused and upset when it turned out to be completely different.



** Nox Decious and The Darkness. When they were first introduced, in Seasons 2-3 respectively, they were well received, seen as interesting, intimidating, and all around villains the audience could LoveToHate. However, that meant that when the storyline moved past them, the writers decided to bring them back, at which point they overexposed them significantly, meaning the audience grew sick of them.
** In Act II of "The Stupid Mario Brothers Movie" The Darkness [[spoiler:gets back up off the ground after being seemingly killed by Wario]], because of a counter curse that was never hinted at. It didn't screw up the movie's plot, even if it made no sense when you really thought about it, so it was tolerated at the very least. Also, [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolid Liquid Snake]] came back to life for no reason (though it's hinted that The Darkness had a role in it), but it worked since it lead to the face off scene between Solid and Liquid Snake. This lead to a major annoyance most fans had in the later seasons, where characters are revived for no reason (no good reasons, at least), simply to provide a villain in the laziest way possible. This even got [[LampshadeHanging Lampshaded]] by Snake when [[spoiler:Vercetti came back]], indicating that at least some of the cast and crew were sick of it as well.

to:

** Nox Decious and The Darkness. When they were he was first introduced, in Seasons 2-3 3 respectively, they were well received, he was seen as interesting, intimidating, and all around villains arounda villain the audience could LoveToHate. However, that meant that when the storyline moved past them, hijm, the writers decided to bring them him back, at which point they overexposed them him significantly, meaning the audience grew sick of them.
The Darkness.
** In Act II of "The Stupid Mario Brothers Movie" The Darkness [[spoiler:gets back up off the ground after being seemingly killed by Wario]], because of a counter curse that was never hinted at. It didn't screw up the movie's plot, even if it made no sense when you really thought about it, so it was tolerated at the very least. Also, [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolid Liquid Snake]] came back to life for with no reason explanation given (though it's hinted that The Darkness had a role in it), but it worked since it lead to the face off scene between Solid and Liquid Snake. This lead to a major annoyance most fans had in the later seasons, where characters are revived for no reason (no good reasons, at least), simply to provide a villain in the laziest way possible. This even got [[LampshadeHanging Lampshaded]] by Snake when [[spoiler:Vercetti came back]], indicating that at least some of the cast and crew were sick of it as well.



* Many long-time ''Franchise/ScoobyDoo'' fans have argued that the franchise's formula stopped working around the time that they tried to bring ''real'' monsters into the show (notably in ''WesternAnimation/TheThirteenGhostsOfScoobyDoo'', [[WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooDirectToVideoFilmSeries the direct-to-video movies]], and [[Film/ScoobyDoo the live-action films]]), which killed the elements of mystery that gave the original series its charm. While the original ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooWhereAreYou'' generally stuck to the famous ScoobyDooHoax for most of its stories, genuinely supernatural elements have been around as far back as that series, and not all of its [[MonsterOfTheWeek Monsters of the Week]] turned out to be costumed crooks. The villain of "Foul Play in Funland" was a real robot gone haywire, one scene in "A Night of Fright is No Delight" had a bone floating onto Scooby's plate with no explanation given, and the supporting characters in "That's Snow Ghost" were implied to have faced a real Yeti in a flashback.

to:

* Many long-time ''Franchise/ScoobyDoo'' fans have argued that the franchise's formula stopped working around the time that they tried to bring ''real'' monsters into the show (notably in ''WesternAnimation/TheThirteenGhostsOfScoobyDoo'', [[WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooDirectToVideoFilmSeries the direct-to-video movies]], and [[Film/ScoobyDoo the live-action films]]), which killed the elements of mystery that gave the original series its charm. While the original ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooWhereAreYou'' generally stuck to the famous ScoobyDooHoax for most of its stories, genuinely supernatural elements have been around as far back as that series, and not all of its [[MonsterOfTheWeek Monsters of the Week]] turned out to be costumed crooks. The villain of "Foul Play in Funland" was a real robot gone haywire, one scene in "A Night of Fright is No Delight" had a bone floating onto Scooby's plate with no explanation given, and the supporting characters in "That's Snow Ghost" were implied to have faced a real Yeti in a flashback. Hell, ''WesternAnimation/ScoobyDooZombieIsland'' (usually regarded as the one of the best stories in the franchise) had it as a selling point that there were real monsters in it. The difference was that there was still a mystery to solve and several plot twists ([[spoiler:the zombies are on the heroes side for one]]) that it all felt natural.
17th Jan '17 2:56:55 PM Kelothan
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Added DiffLines:

* ''WebVideo/StupidMarioBrothers'' can trace a lot of the problems of Seasons 4-5 back to show's highpoints, specifically:
** Nox Decious and The Darkness. When they were first introduced, in Seasons 2-3 respectively, they were well received, seen as interesting, intimidating, and all around villains the audience could LoveToHate. However, that meant that when the storyline moved past them, the writers decided to bring them back, at which point they overexposed them significantly, meaning the audience grew sick of them.
** In Act II of "The Stupid Mario Brothers Movie" The Darkness [[spoiler:gets back up off the ground after being seemingly killed by Wario]], because of a counter curse that was never hinted at. It didn't screw up the movie's plot, even if it made no sense when you really thought about it, so it was tolerated at the very least. Also, [[VideoGame/MetalGearSolid Liquid Snake]] came back to life for no reason (though it's hinted that The Darkness had a role in it), but it worked since it lead to the face off scene between Solid and Liquid Snake. This lead to a major annoyance most fans had in the later seasons, where characters are revived for no reason (no good reasons, at least), simply to provide a villain in the laziest way possible. This even got [[LampshadeHanging Lampshaded]] by Snake when [[spoiler:Vercetti came back]], indicating that at least some of the cast and crew were sick of it as well.
** Many fans found it extremely hard to sympathise with Mario and Luigi in Seasons 4 and 5, seeing as how utterly isolationist they are. Said isolationist thoughts were present in the very first episode, and ''worked'', since the idea was that Mario and Luigi were fed up with having to save the Mushroom Kingdom all the time and decided to have a vacation. In later seasons, Mario and Luigi do little to solve the problem of [[spoiler:[[BroughtDownToNormal the beacon's destruction]] and actually seem to like it better that way.]]
17th Jan '17 6:20:12 AM SorPepita
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* While fans of ''WesternAnimation/{{Rugrats}}'' have [[BrokenBase many different ideas]] about what caused its SeasonalRot, the show's increasing reliance on extended over-the-top {{Imagine Spot}}s is sometimes held up as a symptom of its declining quality, as it increasingly shifted the focus away from the simple day-to-day struggles of the toddlers. In truth, though, the show was ''always'' known for its surreal and fantastical overtones--but in its early days, the toddlers didn't ''need'' {{Imagine Spot}}s to make their world seem like a bizarre wonderland, because the quirky writing and animation made the entire setting seem surreal; the {{Imagine Spot}}s just drew a clear line between the mundane world and the world of the kids' imaginations, where none had existed before. Case in point: compare Season 2's "Toy Palace" with Season 6's "Submarine". The former revolves around the [[HilarityEnsues ensuing hilarity]] when Tommy and Chuckie spend the night in a sprawling toy store that (apparently) includes life-size robotic gorilla toys, automated Old West towns, and ''a working time machine''; the latter just has the kids pretending that a van at a car lot is a submarine.

to:

* While fans of ''WesternAnimation/{{Rugrats}}'' have [[BrokenBase many different ideas]] about what caused its SeasonalRot, the show's increasing reliance on extended over-the-top {{Imagine Spot}}s is sometimes held up as a symptom of its declining quality, as it increasingly shifted the focus away from the simple day-to-day struggles of the toddlers. In truth, though, the show was ''always'' known for its surreal and fantastical overtones--but in its early days, the toddlers didn't ''need'' {{Imagine Spot}}s to make their world seem like a bizarre wonderland, because the quirky writing and animation made the entire setting seem surreal; the {{Imagine Spot}}s just drew a clear line between the mundane world and the world of the kids' imaginations, where none had existed before. Case in point: compare Season 2's "Toy Palace" with Season 6's "Submarine". The former latter revolves around the [[HilarityEnsues ensuing hilarity]] when Tommy and Chuckie spend the night in a sprawling toy store that (apparently) includes life-size robotic gorilla toys, automated Old West towns, and ''a working time machine''; the latter former just has the kids pretending that a van at a car lot is a submarine.
17th Jan '17 5:17:29 AM SorPepita
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** One of the ''biggest'' complaints people have with the modern series is the way they treat [[ButtMonkey Squidward.]] This was in the Pre-Movie episodes, believe it or not. Thing is, Squidward was an arrogant jerk at best, was someone the audience would LoveToHate. Whenever the episode was sympathetic, they usually brought in someone even worse, namely Sqiuilliam. As such, the audience usually laughed at Squidward's misfortune. Then they tried mixing both sympathetic and misfortunate portrayals, to diminishing results.
** Early in the show's run, Patrick's idiocacy made him one of the most hilarious characters due to his lines and antics being witty, endearing, or end up with hilarious reactions from other characters. Unfortunately, later on, his idiocacy ended up focusing more on how much he screwed up, resulting in reactions and idiocacy that would drag on and end up feeling cruel to whoever experienced his antics, with him ending up getting little comeuppance for screwing other characters over for little reason, making him one of the most hated characters of the show.

to:

** One of the ''biggest'' complaints people have with the modern series is the way they treat [[ButtMonkey Squidward.]] This was in the Pre-Movie episodes, believe it or not. Thing is, Squidward was an arrogant jerk at best, and was someone the audience would LoveToHate. Whenever the episode was sympathetic, they usually brought in someone even worse, namely Sqiuilliam. As such, the audience usually laughed at Squidward's misfortune. Then they tried mixing both sympathetic and misfortunate portrayals, to diminishing results.
** Early in the show's run, Patrick's idiocacy idiocy made him one of the most hilarious characters due to his lines and antics being witty, endearing, or end up with hilarious reactions from other characters. Unfortunately, later on, his idiocacy idiocy ended up focusing more on how much he screwed up, resulting in reactions and idiocacy idiocy that would drag on and end up feeling cruel to whoever experienced his antics, with him ending up getting little comeuppance for screwing other characters over for little reason, making him one of the most hated characters of the show.
17th Jan '17 4:57:10 AM SorPepita
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** As pointed out by Creator/TeamFourStar, the Saiyan Saga of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', despite [[GrowingTheBeard setting the tone for the remainder of the series]], also introduced many staples the franchise would be criticized for: PowerLevels, Power Levels turning out to be useless, [[BeamOWar Beam-O-Wars]], extremely over-the-top and drawn-out fights, and everybody [[DroppedABridgeOnHim getting killed]] while waiting for Goku (Gohan in one instance) and his new powerup to save the day. This was all excusable was it was ''new'', but it got old as each new saga came out.
* ''Manga/FairyTail'', back in the Tower of Heaven arc, had [[LadyOfWar Erza Scarlet]] [[HyperspaceWardrobe requip]] to nothing but a {{sarashi}} and hakama pants, while dual wielding katanas, an outfit that is explicitly stated to not provide her any defense, or really any magic. What was supposed to represent her getting over her fear of pain associated with the Tower of Heaven and [[MadeASlave her own experiences with it]] became a predictable formula for all of her major fights from there on out: Be on the receiving end of a NoHoldsBarredBeatdown, have most of her other armors either destroyed or disregarded, only to have her make a token [[ThePowerOfFriendship 'Nakama Speech']] and then requip to this, resulting in a swift victory for her.

to:

** As pointed out by Creator/TeamFourStar, the Saiyan Saga of ''Anime/DragonBallZ'', despite [[GrowingTheBeard setting the tone for the remainder of the series]], also introduced many staples the franchise would be criticized for: PowerLevels, Power Levels turning out to be useless, [[BeamOWar Beam-O-Wars]], extremely over-the-top and drawn-out fights, and everybody [[DroppedABridgeOnHim getting killed]] while waiting for Goku (Gohan in one instance) and his new powerup to save the day. This was all excusable was in that it was ''new'', but it got old as each new saga came out.
* ''Manga/FairyTail'', back in the Tower of Heaven arc, had [[LadyOfWar Erza Scarlet]] [[HyperspaceWardrobe requip]] to nothing but a {{sarashi}} and hakama pants, while dual wielding katanas, an outfit that is explicitly stated to not provide her any defense, or really any magic. What was supposed to represent her getting over her fear of pain associated with the Tower of Heaven and [[MadeASlave her own experiences with it]] became a predictable formula for all of her major fights from there on out: Be be on the receiving end of a NoHoldsBarredBeatdown, have most of her other armors either destroyed or disregarded, only to have her make a token [[ThePowerOfFriendship 'Nakama Speech']] and then requip to this, resulting in a swift victory for her.
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