Trope Idea Sounding Board

TBH, I'd rather not have such tropes, because in practice they tend to focus too much on minor details of the character's appearance that it simply reads like "character in adaptation isn't proportioned exactly the same way as the source material", which is chairs.

We already cut Big Bra to Fill (which was basically about real actresses not being as well-endowed as comic book characters' Most Common Superpower) for being so pointless.

Edited by Adept on Aug 23rd 2023 at 12:05:49 AM

Yeah, I've never... really understood the point of the adaptation tropes... right now they're just getting super specific and granular.

Oh I have fully felt that they have gotten well out of hand some time ago, given just how long Media Adaptation Tropes has become. We're basically documenting every single minute detail that is not 1:1 the same between adaptations, which feels very superfluous, especially when the change has zero effect on the narrative.

yea, agreed in general. there's just so many, and most of them totally fail to explain why they're relevant— they're just documenting every random change. if they ever get cleaned, id want to focus on why is this particular change relevant? how does it change the story? or, otherwise, what is the relevance of the pattern, is this type of change common for a reason?

(for example, Adaptational Attractiveness is an easy keep, imo— it clearly documents the relevance of the pattern overall).

that said, i do think that specifically "cartoonish features become normal features when adapted to live action" is at least documenting a reason for the pattern, not just a detail changing— it's a subtype of Pragmatic Adaptation.

Edited by Tremmor19 on Aug 22nd 2023 at 10:55:21 AM

It's a subtype of Pragmatic Adaptation, yes, and there's no reason why we can't just list the differences there rather than split more subtropes based on really specific and minor changes. In practice, those pages just get used to list every instances a character in the adaptation is slightly taller/shorter/thinner/fatter/have different hair color/etc. than the source material.

looking at the adaptations index, it mostly seems to be the "in-universe changes" category that needs the most help— I could see a few cut from the others but at least those are generally plot-related.

It seems to largely be the same issue as other chairs tropes: if your "trope" has a list of reasons like "This specific thing happens, which may be because of X, or Y, or Z, or some other reason", then you don't have a trope. The salvageable ones would presumably be the ones which have consistent underlying reasons

There might also be room for trope(s) about adaptational changes that actually effect the story? Like, if a character changes height, and there are changes to the plot, setting or characterization because of this— but not just every time a character gets taller or shorter.

Well, Informed Attribute if a character is said to be bustier or something but doesn't look it?

Edited by Malady on Aug 23rd 2023 at 5:26:31 AM

Run-and-Gun says it's one name for two different things.

Are those different enough that we should have separate indexes for each?

Edit: R Epost this later, and think about a Vague Effect Descriptor trope like for GuideDangIt.Other - City of Heroes. Sometimes happens in RPG Maker RP Gs?

Also No Name Just Descriptor or Only Known By Description or something else EveryoneCallsHimBarkeep.Video Games for Card City Nights? There's probably a difference from the narration naming someone by description vs. just characters doing it? My Name Is ??? stuff.

Edited by Malady on Aug 24th 2023 at 9:14:32 AM

I wouldn't mind an Adaptation Tropes cleanup. It reminds me of a TLP draft called something like Adaptational Monster, pitched as the inverse of Adaptational Sympathy, but people said it was The Same, but More Specific than Adaptational Villainy.

Lately I've been thinking about the concept of "the human animal" — an exploration of what it means to be human on a biological/instinctual level, rather than on a philosophical level. Unfortunately, the only work of fiction I can think of that does this is Medicated, which is basically about a bunch of transformed humans becoming human again and trying to figure out what a human is because they've been taken from Earth.

Edited by NitroIndigo on Aug 23rd 2023 at 7:01:49 PM

I'm wondering, would it be worthwhile to suggest a trope about an ongoing series making changes to match a popular adaptation

Things like:

• Characters being redesigned in sequels to match their appearance in the adaptation
• Stories whose purpose is to induce changes or introduce things to "synergize" with an adaptation (I understand marvel comics do this re MCU but not being a comic fan I'm fuzzy on the specifics)
• New plots being written specifically to be easier to mine for future adaptations.

Audience-Coloring Adaptation is the closest to what I was thinking but it's specifically about people's perception of a franchise rather than objective "The 226th issue of Comic Book redesign Bob's costume to match how he looks in the recent Hollywood movie". I was thinking something Adaptation Motivated Change but that's kind of clunky.

Ah it totally is, thanks.

Edited by Glowsquid on Aug 24th 2023 at 2:47:19 PM

I have a trope titles "Identity Sacrifice Gambit" in where a character performs a something to achieve a higher goal... but at the cost of their identities or minds. Take for instance The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom where Zelda willingly becomes the Light Dragon (despite losing her mind and memories) to take The Slow Path back to the present and give the Master Sword enough time and energy to defeat Ganondorf.

What do you think? are there any other tropes that cover this concept?

Sounds like Ret-Canon.

Sorry for double-posting, but I've noticed in Speculative Fiction, characters can tell that a being of another species is sapient by looking at their eyes. Some examples include:

• In Songs of the Spheres, Pinkie Pie realises that the bug people are sapient because she sees a "spark" in their eyes, whereas their steeds' eyes appear dull.
• In one Beast Fables image, Olaf Halverson became convinced that merfolk are real when he went diving and saw a beluga whale with bright blue eyes with a "spark of deep thought behind them."
• This trope was brought to my mind when I read this example on Intelligent Gerbil, about The Space Trilogy:
  • The hrossa from Out of the Silent Planet are quite like sapient seals, only their planet's lighter gravity has made them taller and thinner. This resemblance to Earth animals make Ransom uncertain and awkward when he sees the intelligence in their eyes and tries to talk to them through panicked gestures.

I was thinking of calling this Windows of the Soul, but turns out it's already taken.

Edited by NitroIndigo on Aug 24th 2023 at 5:01:08 PM

Reading the discussion for Symbolic Suicide had me thinking of splitting Symbolic Sex from Does This Remind You of Anything? as well, although I'm afraid this is more prone to misuse and shoehorning since accidental innuendos are probably more common.

Is there anything we could do with the concept of Dinosaur Shaped Chicken Nuggets? Like how common it is for kids to be eating them? I remember it being mentioned in the Captain Underpants movie…

That's Age-Stereotypical Food

I have noticed that if a character is said to be a Men's Rights advocate, they are always a bad person, usually misogynists. My only actual example is from Santa Clarita Diet, but I'm sure there are more.

Straw Misogynist

I wonder if there's space for a Sub-Trope of Meaningful Name to name your protagonist as The Protagonist, like:

- Thanks!

• Protagonist Hiros:
  • DARLING in the FRANXX
  • Digimon Ghost Game
  • H2: The protagonist is named "Hiro".
  • Inuyashiki: Hiro Shishigami has an Ironic Name. He's anything but a hero. In fact, this trope probably made him Wrong Genre Savvy in thinking he's the hero, until meeting Inuyashiki for the second time.
  • Snow Crash: Hiro Protagonist, the protagonist.
  • Crystal Story series: Ironic Name? Hiro from the first game, is a subversion where he is a Heroic Wannabe who makes the main character party hunt down the Big Bad Rita and give Hiro the credit for capturing her. The plan succeeds as shown in the sequel despite Hiro himself being so Pathetically Weak he can't even defeat a slime, and was knocked out by a slap from Rita.
  • Mini Ninjas: One of the protagonists.
  • The Legends of Hiro
  • Lunar: Eternal Blue: The protagonist is named "Hiro".
  • Big Hero 6: The protagonist is named "Hiro".
  • Exchange Student Zero: Summoned into the story instead of starting as the protagonist?
  • inviZimals: Unique Protagonist Asset bearer of Power Copying?
  • Magic: The Gathering: https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=548379 - Hirori?
• Y: The Last Man: Hero spends a lot of time as The Atoner for a good reason, and is the sister of the protagonist.
• Harem Protagonist names its main character Shujin Kou, a play on shujinkou, a Japanese word for "protagonist" or "hero".
• Science Girls!: The player character's default name is Player.
• Erfworld: Parson A. Gotti, Significant Anagram of "Protagonist".

Edited by Malady on Apr 22nd 2024 at 7:08:26 AM

Hiro from Crystal Story is a subversion where he is a Heroic Wannabe who makes the main character party hunt down the Big Bad Rita and give Hiro the credit for capturing her. The plan succeeds as shown in the sequel despite Hiro himself being Pathetically Weak and knocked out by a slap from Rita. He can't even defeat a slime.

I also want to bring up a YMMV trope idea: Just Here For The Tunes, which is when the soundtrack or some music from a non music related work (Music and musical works are disqualified, naturally) overshadows every other aspect of the work, including story and gameplay for games. It's not just about a work having Awesome Music, but it should be considerably more appealing to fans than everything else. It can be because the music itself is more popular to the community than the rest of the game, due to memes or people making remixes of it. It can also be because all other non music aspects of the work are viewed negatively or with controversy in comparison. It's a Sister Trope to Play the Game, Skip the Story and its opposite as well.

Examples:

Inchon: The film isn't appealing from a visual standpoint or from a narrative standpoint due to its Audience-Alienating Premise regarding the Unification Church, but the score of Jerry Goldsmith done for the movie is more well liked in comparison.

Mamorukun Curse: The game is an obscure Playstation exclusive Bullet Hell whose gameplay and story isn't really well known among the internet, but what is known about the game is Yousuke Yasui's music made for the game, which is often reposted and remixed, most notably Yokai Disco.

Paper Mario: Sticker Star: The game is heavily debated on its quality and drastic changes from the previous games, and is generally viewed in an indifferent or disdainful light in comparison to both the older and newer games in the series. However, while the gameplay is often criticized and the story is either considered bad or negligible, the music is considered to be one of the few parts of the game consistently liked by the fanbase, whether they like the rest of the game or not.

Sonic '06: The game is viewed very negatively as a whole from a gameplay and even story standpoint, but the soundtrack is often excluded from the negativity, if not the one thing fans have a consistently positive opinion on.

Sounds like Cult Soundtrack.

I've brought this up before, but I know you said no musical works, but I feel like "Just Here for the Tunes" could apply to musicals and operas as well, there are definitely a lot of them were no one likes the plot and sometimes the plot is hated for being racist/sexist or otherwise offensive, but people see it for the music which is considered really good.

Noted

The most important difference between this and Cult Soundtrack is that the latter is about the soundtrack being an iconic part of the work (regardless of whether the other aspects are also well liked) and the former being the most well positively viewed aspect of the non-music work, if viewed at all. Cult Soundtrack can have "bad" iconic music like with Crazy Bus for example. I have noted other examples of the former in Cult Soundtrack's examples, though. You think Just Here For The Tunes would be distinct enough?

Edited by Necromancer10 on Aug 26th 2023 at 2:13:40 PM

Would Akira Bike Slide (i.e. shots recreating Kaneda's motorcycle slide during the beginning of AKIRA) be trope-worthy as a subtrope of stock shout-out? I feel like it's iconic enough as a visual shot to work by itself and since half the references on ReferencedBy.Akira allude to the Akira bike slide, there are definitely enough examples to mention.
Key points would include the fact that Akira was one of the first major anime movies to be released in the West and the shot's awesomeness is a common cross-cultural reference.

Edited by Wasabi2 on Aug 26th 2023 at 4:47:07 AM

Honestly I've seen the Akira bike slide so many times that it probably deserves to be its own trope at this point