To-do list:

• The basic definition of this trope is evil that is so horrifying, powerful, incomprehensible, etc that it cannot be clearly shown on-screen, as for when they it is built up so much, anything shown to the audience is a letdown. Remove any examples that confuse it with other villain tropes, such as Big Bad or Greater-Scope Villain.

Original post

Ultimate Evil is a trope that has gone through various kinds of misuse for many reasons. The basic definition of this trope is evil that is so horrifying, powerful, incomprehensible, etc that it cannot be clearly shown on-screen, as for when they it is built up so much, anything shown to the audience is a letdown.

However, this trope has been misused in a variety of ways. One particular problem leading to misuse is the trope's name. Although there exists a explanation at the bottom of the page description that this trope is not about being a Big Bad, Greater-Scope Villain, or the like, it still gets misused a ton because of its name. It doesn't describe the trope at all. There has been lots of misuse of a result of not understanding the exact classifications of the trope and that the evil needs to be unseen the entire time.

Here is my wick check (this is my first-ever wick check, so sorry if it's not super good), with usage being organized into various categories:

A. Evil that cannot be clearly shown on-screen because of how horrifying, powerful, incomprehensible, etc it is. It cannot be shown because the audience's expectations has been built up so much that anything shown would be a letdown.

B. The evil is shown off-screen for a while, but is eventually shown on-screen. (I left whenever they arguably made up to expectations or not out of this.)

C. The evil is a Big Bad, Greater-Scope Villain, or the like. This includes evil entities, as well as objects that serve an evil role. (Note that for some of these examples, it was left unclear whenever they were this from the initial wick, so I had to gain additional context by looking though the works.)

D. Zero-content examples.

E. Mixed usage.

F. Uncertain about usage; this includes examples where it could potentially be C but I couldn't find context elsewhere.

The results are:

Category A: 11/50

Category B: 8/50

Category C: 20/50

Category D: 6/50

Category E: 2/50

Category F: 3/50

Confusion about what the trope's name means seems to be a huge problem, with a majority of the wicks coming from that, so the trope definitely needs a rename. Unseen Evil is already a redirect for the trope, and I don't know why it isn't the trope's actual name.

For the definition of the trope itself's idea, here are some ideas:

• Keep the definition how it currently is: evil that is so horrifying, powerful, incomprehensible, etc that it cannot be clearly shown on-screen, as for when they it is built up so much, anything shown to the audience is a letdown

• Expand and alter the definition of the trope; make it so evil that is unseen for a significant amount of time still count, and also make it so that the reason why the evil is not shown onscreen is to make their actions seem more powerful and ominous. This would exclude the part on whenever the audience thinks the evil lives up to their expectations or not when it is seen.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 5th 2022 at 2:13:52 PM

back lol

Wick check looks good, so opened.

I'm fine with expanding the definition.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

Expanding seems alright; the narrative intent would still be to keep the monster seeming scary. If they revealed the monster and disappointed the audience afterward, it doesn't change the fact that they did hide the monster for those reasons.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

^ Wouldn't that fall under Monster Delay?

That's just delaying the monster. It doesn't matter why the monster is delayed or if the delay makes the monster seem scarier in a Nothing Is Scarier sort of way; it's just "not showing the monster" and is more often due to budget and special effects, not intentionally trying to build up the monster as something larger than life.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

How to make the distinction between Monster Delay and the suggested expansion of Ultimate Evil to include evil being eventually shown?

Again, by author intent and impact.

If anything the tropes would overlap, but that's it. They're distinct otherwise.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

A rename would be good.

I'm fine with expanding the definition.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Author intent is difficult to discern, and minus that it's hard for me to see the difference between the expanded definition and Monster Delay.

For making Unseen Evil the main name though.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Not necessarily:

• If all the characters or the narrative itself builds up how scary, awesome, incomprehensible, etc. the monster/villain is and we almost never see the monster/villain for ourselves, it's Ultimate Evil / Unseen Evil. Even if we do end up seeing the monster at some point, the buildup is still there, and the monster was still hidden to try and keep up the mystery and let the audience's imagination run wild.
• If the monster/villain is mostly only shown via special effects, or there's not enough budget to show them throughout the work, but they show up towards the middle or end, that's Monster Delay.

You can tell which is which; one relies on the characters building up the evil that we never see in such a way that makes them larger than life; one relies on the monster not showing up immediately due to special effects or a lack of them. It's presented differently, has different implications for the monster/villain itself, and while both may build up the monster, one of them is doing so intentionally.

This distinction doesn't change just because you might eventually see the Ultimate Evil; the narrative buildup and shilling is still there while the monster is off-screen, and that's the trope IMO.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

If there is agreement about budget concerns not being one of the reasons for creators to invoke Ultimate Evil then that line should be removed from the first paragraph.

...Yeah, I missed that line completely.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Bumping this. Here's some potential options for a crowner:

1. Rename Ultimate Evil

2. Expand definition to include examples where an antagonistic character is eventually shown on-screen, but unseen for the most part

3. Cut

4. Do nothing

back lol

Go for it.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

Made a crowner; hollering to hook.

back lol

Requesting an unclock to follow.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!

Oh wow, I didn't even notice this thread.

I've had problems with this trope for a while, because whenever I correct an example there's either a reversion with an edit reason or a direct PM about how the example is literally called "ultimate evil" in universe, so why doesn't it count?

Anyway, looking over that wick check, group A interests me. As the OP said, expanding the definition a bit might not be a bad idea. After a rename, because seriously.

I was just thinking: Would the name Unseen Evil still lead to confusion with the definition? We decided to not expand the definition to include examples where a antagonistic force was unseen for the most part, but eventually shown on-screen, but would the name Unseen Evil still possibly lead to that kind of misuse?

back lol

I think it would be fine, as an antagonist who is eventually seen will still be unseen for the most part.

The original crowner decided to not expand the definition like so.

back lol

Oops, I misread your comment and thought we voted to expand it — I misremembered the thread.

My original take still stands; I think it's a far clearer name regardless.