Ensemble Dark Horse Cleanup

I want to share these two examples from Ant-Man and the Wasp. I've noticed a trend in most MCU movies that if a not mainstream villain is featured in a major role, it's considered an Ensemble Dark Horse

• Ensemble Dark Horse:
  • Although she's not a particularly well-known villain, Ghost was a huge hit with audiences thanks to her cool costume, awesome superpowers and sympathetic backstory. The fandom reaction was almost unanimously delighted when she survived the movie with hints at an eventual redemption.
  • Despite being an incredibly minor character in the comics with no superpowers, Walton Goggins as Sonny Burch basically steals the entire movie with his style and sheer entertainment value.

I'm pretty sure these two are disqualified in the movie at least because they are both the main antagonists.

Uni cat

I just stumbled upon EnsembleDarkhorse.Evil Con Carne. It seems to have been written almost entirely by a single user and is just a list of their favorite characters.

There's also HilariousInHindsight.Evil Con Carne, by the same user. We don't have a cleanup thread for Hilarious in Hindsight, so I figured I'd just bring it up while I'm already here. It's just a list of random things that tenuously relate to other random things. For example:

I don't even get what's supposed to be funny about that last one. Or any of them, really.

I'll just go ahead and Cut List both of these pages soon unless anyone has any reason not to.

EDIT: And they're gone.

Edited by Primis on Apr 27th 2019 at 3:58:02 AM

I just did a fix-up on EnsembleDarkhorse.Steven Universe and I'd like someone who's caught up/doesn't care about spoilers to give it another look for me (particularly the Ruby Squad entry. I know they're loved, but I don't know how much, and grouping them together like that doesn't seem right).

I also have another question; do the Fusions of the main characters count as main characters? I mean, obviously on that grounds alone, the answer would be "yes", but they appear so briefly and sporadically that I think they can be given a pass (for instance, the Fusion with the most appearances, Stevonnie [Steven and Connie], has shown up in 7 episodes of around 160. Opal [Pearl and Amethyst], one of the most loved Fusions, has appeared three times and only spoke in her first appearance).

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Bringing up this example from Hellboy (2019):

• Ensemble Dark Horse: Even some of the more negative reviews highlight Gruagach as a fairly interesting character in his own right despite not even being the Big Bad.

So it's been 3 days, any chance I could get a response regarding the examples I brought up above?

So it's been 6 days, any chance I could get a response regarding the examples I brought up above?

I got'cha.

So...what is this character's role in the show? It doesn't tell us if their apparent popularity is unusual for their role; Darkhorses can't be major characters since those characters are expected to get popular.

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By what metric do we measure how important a Pokemon species is, and whether its popularity is disproportionate to its importance?

EnsembleDarkhorse.Pokemon lists Meowth (who is a major character in the anime) and Eevee (which Nintendo seems to be trying to push as a secondary mascot after Pikachu), as well as many entries which read as "I REALLY like this Pokemon!!!"

For Eevee, I remember hearing that one of the reasons they were making Eevee a mascot is because of its popularity shortly after Let's Go was announced. Do we have any tropes where a character gains a bigger role because of their popularity within the fandom?

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Breakout Character would probably fit that description.

On YMMV/Skullgirls, Peacock, Squigly and Big Band are listed as Ensemble Darkhorses despite being playable. Big Band in particular is more of a Breakout Character (he was a background NPC who later became playable because of his popularity).

I'm illiterate. Superman 64 has a better characters than The Last of Us Part II.

Could I please get some feedback on this?

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I can't really comment on the Ruby Squad, but I would consider the fusions their own characters and thus able to qualify, personally.

Oissu!

On Pokémon: Storm Clouds I found Masque listed as an Ensemble Dark Horse even though other information I've been getting says he's the true Big Bad and final villain of the story. That by default means he has too much story relevance to count as an Ensemble Dark Horse, right?

And on Pokémon Colosseum I found Wes listed even though he's the main character. And the example seems to be trying to justify it with the fact that he's the main character of a spin-off game, but he's still a main character

I think both of these should be cut

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I have a feeling that Ensemble Darkhorse is being misused in a few example. From Overwatch

• Ensemble Dark Horse: Non-playable characters that appear in shorts and comics, hell even concepts, have a tendency to become this due to them still standing out as a Cast of Snowflakes.
  • Tekharta Mondatta, whose only major appearances are during a sermon in Alive and a statue on King's Row map, enjoys a fanbase of his own for his Small Role, Big Impact nature in the story. The similarities to Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. don't hurt, either,
  • Maximilien, the French Omnic who has a seat on Talon's Council of Leaders, was a quick hit with the fans due to being the first confirmed evil sentient Omnic (unlike the majority of destructive Omnics that appeared during the Omnic Crisis), something that many have wanted to see. Naturally, quite a few fans are hoping he'll be Promoted to Playable in the future.
  • Doomfist owes his status as a playable character to this: despite only briefly being mentioned in the original trailer, having a small presence on the Numbani map, and never actually being meant to be playable, he proved to be wildly popular and fans clamored for Blizzard to make him playable, which led to him becoming, to much fanfare, not just the game's twenty-fifth hero, but a strong contender for the overall narrative's main villain.
  • Snowball has won over many fans for its cuteness and usefulness in gameplay. The short Rise and Shine cements this status after showing its relationship with Mei, and he even says her name when she first wakes up.
  • Lynx Seventeen from the "Searching" comic was an instant hit with fans, thanks to their cool design and hilarious Deadpan Snarker personality. Being officially confirmed as being gender-nonconforming has also netted them a comfortable LGBT Fanbase.
  • On an interesting case: Mercy's concept art became this. Early drafts of her depicted a dark skinned man with similar armor to her current design. Many fans liked the design and started portraying him as her younger brother. It seems that Baptiste - a dark-skin Haitian Gentle Giant Support hero, was created as a response to his popularity.
  • Balderich von Adler immediately became this when shown in Reinhardt's short Honor and Glory, being a huge armored badass who teaches Reinhardt to be an honorable hero, and then goes out in a Heroic Sacrifice taking out numerous omnics while dual-wielding rocket hammers, with a fatal injury to boot.
    • The same short also gave us our first 3D look at Brigitte in a workout shirt that showed off her arm muscles. She had been featured in comics before, but she didn't have such prominent... definition. Her later inclusion in the roster was predictably very much well-received.
  • Pachimari the Tamanegi-Teko! The adorable onion-octopus… thing who appears to be the Series Mascot for an in-story Merchandise-Driven franchise. The weird little thing has achieved enough popularity with the community to warrant real merchandise thanks to its tongue-in-cheek design as a parody of cutesy Japanese mascot series and the humorous reoccurring gag of Roadhog's infatuation with it.
  • Some of the outfits some characters have been shown wearing in-story have struck a chord with their respective fanbases, such as Hanzo's memorable one-panel ensemble from Reflections, Mei's Summer Games pajamas from Rise & Shine and Tracer's orange and black bodysuit from various flashbacks. Fan art is not hard to come by, and some even want to see them implemented into the game as skins.
  • B.O.B, Ashe's omnic butler and bodyguard, proved to be the best part about her entire character concept. He's got an awesome handlebar mustache built into his face, wears a bowler derby hat, doesn't speak a word, and garnered the biggest audience reactions whenever he was even mentioned at the live reveal at Blizzcon 2018. Even among Ashe's detractors, people loves B.O.B. and wish he could have been the playable character instead of her.
  • Echo, the Omnic that McCree rescued from Ashe in Reunion instantly gains a fanbase due to her cute interaction with him and unique character design despite only appearing in the last minute of the short. The reveal of her as a future playable character has only intensified interests in her.
  • Mauga, a talon heavy mercenary and former squadmate of Baptiste from the latter's illustrated story "What You Left Behind", has gained attention from the fanbase due to his distinctive design, his lively personality yet intimidating frame, and his genuine friendship with Baptiste. Some hope and even anticipate that he'll be a new hero in the future.

So the trend here is that any named character is an authomatic Ensemble Dark Horse. The problem here is that couple of them were Promoted to Playable or are often seen in the game itself (Like Bob) so i don't think they qualify for the trope.

On other case like Lynx, Mauga or Balderich while they aren't playable characters, the stories that do feature them have them in an important role and AFAIK, Ensemble Dark Horse is only for tertiary or minor characters. If a comic or short story features you as an important character, do you still qualify for the trope?

Uni cat

Those don't seem like valid examples

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Do any of these Animal Crossing examples count?

• Lazy villagers are particularly popular due to their very friendly and amicable personalities. Some examples include Stitches the cub (who resembles a patchwork teddy bear), Lucky the mummy dog, Zucker the octopus, Drago (an alligator who resembles an Eastern dragon), Filbert the squirrel, Bob and Punchy (both of which are cats, the former is believed to be the first villager ever created), and Beau and Erik (deer).
• Although Smug villagers tend to be hit or miss depending on designs, a few are popular enough to be wanted. The biggest example is Marshal the squirrel, but others include Kyle the wolf, Shep the sheepdog, Jacques the bird, O'Hare the rabbit, and Julian the horse (who looks like a unicorn), and Lopez and Zell (deer).
• Similarly, most Uchi villagers are not particularly wanted, but some are well liked enough. Examples of these include Fuchsia and Deirdre (both deer), Mira the rabbit (if only because she's a conspicuous Shout-Out to Sailor Venus), Cherry the dog, Phoebe the ostrich (who looks like a phoenix), and Muffy the sheep.
• Some of the more popular normal villagers include Fauna (deer), Marina (the only female octopus), Merengue (rhino whose head resembles a strawberry shortcake), Maple (bear cub), Molly (duck), Flurry (hamster), Goldie and Daisy (dogs), Poppy (squirrel), Skye (wolf with the same colors as the sky), Tia and Margie (the former is an elephant that resembles a teapot and the later had a role in the Animal Crossing movie.), Coco (rabbit whose head resembles a Gyroid), Lily (frog), and Kiki, Mitzi and Lolly (cats).
• Cranky villagers are generally not well liked due to having rough personalities in general, but a few manage to stand out: Apollo the eagle (who even had a role in the movie), Rolf the white tiger, Octavian the octopus, Bruce the deer, Kabuki the cat, Static the squirrel, Roscoe the horse, and Chief, Fang, Wolfgang, and Lobo (wolves).
• Snooty villagers are usually seen as hard to get along with due to being well, snooty, but quite a few are highly desired. Ankha the Egyptian-themed cat, Diana the deer, Willow the sheep, Portia (a dog modeled after a dalmatian), Freya and Whitney (both wolves with the latter even having a role in the movie), Francine the rabbit and Julia the peacock-like ostrich^note She's amiibo-exclusive as part of the WA update, and had previously made her debut in the Japan-exclusive Animal Forest e+ as a Peppy villager, but was cut out until said update are just a few.
• Popular peppy villagers include Rosie, Felicity and Tangy (all three are cats, with the former even having a role in the movie and the latter whose head resembles an orange), Cookie and Maddie (dogs), Ruby, Chrissy, Bunnie, Bonbon and Dotty (Rabbits), Flora the ostrich (who looks like a flamingo), Sprinkle the penguin, and Peanut the squirrel.
• Jock villagers aren’t overly popular due to their hit-or-miss designs, but a handful of them are wanted enough. Examples include Rudy and Kid Cat (both cats with the latter being designed as a superhero), Bam the deer, Snake and Genji (rabbits), Hamlet the hamster, and Ribbot the robot frog.
• As far as species are concerned, some are more popular then others. Familiar animals such as wolves, cats, rabbits, dogs, deer, sheep, bears (both cubs and regular), hamsters, frogs, and squirrels are popular enough that players will try to fill their town with nothing but these species. Deer appear to be the most wanted since every single deer villager appears somewhere on the list.
• Octopuses are also popular because there are only four of them in the entire series (Marina (Normal), Zucker (Lazy), Octavian (Cranky), and Inkwell (Jock)).
• While ostriches aren't the most familiar animals, they’re generally well-liked due to their creative designs, which often incorporate elements of other, more familiar birds (e.g. Flora looks like a flamingo).
• Welcome amiibo re-introduced villagers who haven't been in Animal Crossing games. Some of the more popular ones include Ketchup (a duck with a tomato for a head). ^note Ketchup actually made her debut in Animal Forest e+ in 2003, predating Welcome amiibo by thirteen years. However, the game was Japan-exclusive and was her only appearance in the series until Welcome amiibo. Dobie, Vivian, and Stella are also very popular. The Sanrio characters are also pretty popular, but of that group, Etoile the sheep^note based on the Little Twin Stars seems to be the most loved. As for the Crossover characters, W. Link is easily the most popular.
• K.K. Slider

These were removed from EnsembleDarkhorse.Marvel Cinematic Universe:

• The Howling Commandos in Captain America: The First Avenger, considering they're only in a handful of scenes and one montage. Since then they've returned for cameos in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., the Agent Carter short film, and the Agent Carter TV series.
• The Black Order from Avengers: Infinity War are very popular with fans, despite dying in their debut movie. Ebony Maw in particular is especially popular.

The reason was "This trope only applies for individual characters, not groups or organizations." The no-groups thing applies to The Scrappy, but it's the first I've heard of it applied to Darkhorse. Does it?

So Spinel, the antagonist of Steven Universe: The Movie who is in a majority of the film's screentime, is listed in EnsembleDarkhorse.Steven Universe. I imagine there's no objection to removing her?

Side note, have we settled on a wait time for ED like Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character have?

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The animal crossing ones are definitely misuse since they should be about minor characters. The only one that may fit is K.K. Slider.

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Slider also got an amiibo and is treated more like the other "bigger" NPC's. Only ones like the Shop Owners, Museum Owners, Isabelle, and Mr. Resetti actually have amiibo. None of the minor characters do(Tom or Katt, two cats, for instance). Basically, the regular Villagers are treated as unimportant, and only get amiibo cards at most. The bigger ones have regular physical amiibo. K.K. Slider is among that set. Settings-wise, he's your original source of songs till later games made them buyable. He's about as minor as the Museum characters, so is part of the 100% completion factor for any important stuff. I'd argue he still isn't minor overall.

...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.

I deleted Spinel. So uh, another conundrum; the main antagonists of the spinoff games Save the Light and The Phantom Fable are also on the page, but I'm not sure if they should be removed since they appear in one game each, which aren't required in order to be caught up with the show - and in Fable's case, her game might not even be canon.

The pilot version of Pearl is also listed on the page, and I don't know if she should be removed either, as while it's still Pearl, pilot Pearl and canon Pearl are very different in terms of design and personality.

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So, I'm wondering if Hugh Laurie's unnamed British passenger from Friends would qualify. I have seen multiple clips of the footage in which he appears, and a good number of the comments were cheering on the character, partially due to calling Rachel out for ostensibly selfish behavior.

I mean, I am not sure how well known the character is, but I think for a little known character, he seems pretty popular.

The guy on the plane only appears in two scenes from The One With Ross's Wedding Pt. 2.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 23rd 2019 at 5:35:34 AM

Rawr.

Sounds like he could. Does he appear in any other episode?

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Could I please get some feedback on ? I'm thinking of removing Hessonite, but I'm still unsure on Fable and pilot Pearl.

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If they're the main antagonists, they are by default not minor characters.

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