The Scrappy Cleanup

It seems hard for major characters to have neutral middle grounds. People either love them or hate them since their frequent screentime leaves room for little else.

I don't agree that it's hard for major characters to have a middle ground, but even if it was, it doesn't actually disprove the existence of a middle ground. For example, I know a couple people who neither love nor hate Sakura; they pretty much just think "Well, she exists."

Though discussion of whether or not Sakura is a Base-Breaking Character should probably go to the appropriate thread.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Mar 8th 2019 at 9:08:29 AM

In any case, Sakura has stopped being a Scrappy so any entries regarding that should be removed.

I have at least seen a Rescued from the Scrappy Heap entry featuring her so that alone should be enough reason to remove The Scrappy from Sakura.

Edited by fasoman1996 on Mar 8th 2019 at 10:55:32 AM

Rescued from the Scrappy Heap doesn't require the character to have been The Scrappy specifically, just that some people who disliked her change their minds following a certain event. This can include a Base-Breaking Character becoming a bit less base-breaking.

Pretty much anyone on the Scrappy Index can potentially qualify as having been Rescued.

Edited by Zuxtron on Mar 8th 2019 at 9:20:58 AM

I still think Rescued from the Scrappy Heap is very badly named if the rescued character doesn't have to have been The Scrappy at any point. If the two tropes can be unrelated, the name of of the one trope shouldn't be related to the other trope. It should be independently named to make it clear that the two tropes do not have to be connected. As it's currently named, it sounds like The Scrappy is a pre-requisite for Rescued from the Scrappy Heap to be possible and that makes it badly named. It also doesn't help that the Laconic makes The Scrappy a pre-requisite, and therefore needs rewriting.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 10th 2019 at 7:38:03 PM

It has been suggested in this thread that a mandatory six-month waiting period be implemented before adding examples of The Scrappy, similar to the policy already in place for Base-Breaking Character.

I like the idea of a wait period.

Works.

Six-month period for Scrappies

Cameron is under Americans Hate Tingle and The Scrappy despite coming under analysis by this thread by this thread. How is he still both?

Was it due to being constantly hated overseas but poplar at home until the League? Does the fact he gets a Take That, Scrappy! at the hands of Virgil in the same episode undercut his Scrappy status since the writers were apparently aware of the backlash he'd receive so it was somewhat intentional? Or was that undercut by how it added to Virgil's Americans Hate Tingle status (it came off to me as to protect Virgil from the backlash of beating Ash at the expense of denying Ash the dignity of at least losing to a Worthy Opponent (which also would have prevented the backlash of Ash regressing in League performance))?

If Cameron count's as both Americans Hate Tingle and The Scrappy, should I add the above to explain that?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Mar 12th 2019 at 2:47:05 AM

Americans Hate Tingle and The Scrappy are mutually exclusive. I'm not too familiar with Cameron's hatedom, but I think Americans Hate Tingle is the safer bet until someone can provide a more conclusive look at what the Japanese think of him.

Question: In Persona and Persona 2, there was the self-insert of the scenario writer Tadashi Satomi, who depicted himself as an utterly useless and perverse detective, who somehow landed a relationship with a girl that's based on a real life actress. The hate got so high that in Eternal Punishment (the second half of P2), he was taken out of the game because "some people are out for his life", and his girlfriend wonders who would even bother killing him. He's listed as The Scrappy in the P2 page, but can I put him in the appropriate Shin Megami Tensei page as well?

The Scrappy section on YMMV.Survivor is a mess.

• From One World, we have Alicia Rosa. While not as infamous as Colton, she was known for bullying her fellow contestants, including comparing Christina to her students. She is a special education teacher by the way.
• In Fiji, James "Rocky" Reid is loathed by not just fans, but by his tribe mates. His egotistic and hot-head attitude easily got to everyone quickly, especially when he was bullying Anthony considering him a weakling. Even Mookie and Edgardo couldn't stand him and decided to get rid of him over outsider Lisi when he acted like everyone was dumber then he was.
• Denise Martin from China has gotten a fair share of haters after she didn't take PG on any reward challenges despite PG taking her on a reward challenge of a place Denise wanted to go to as well as being in the center of controversy by having Mark Burnett give her 50,000 dollars after lying about her being fired from her job.
• As for an actual contestant from Gabon, Corrine ended up gaining some haters for her being a Jerkass and giving one of a very brutal "The Reason You Suck" Speech by telling that Sugar's father deserved to die. Her appearances in Rob Has a Podcast and her return in Caramoan largely rescue her from the scrappy heap by showing more personality along in those appearances.
• Russell Hantz started as one to just the older fans because being a Spotlight-Stealing Squad who steals time from the other castaways, doesn't realize that Survivor is a social game and was slow to understood why he lost. He was also accused of being a Creator's Pet even though Jeff stated that Russell is his least Survivor contestant. He became one to everyone in Heroes vs Villains due to becoming dumber and more being more horrid to his castaways than in Samoa.
• Russell's nephew Brandon Hantz counts as a Scrappy as well, especially after his meltdown in Caramoan caused everybody to believe that he was the most questionable casting choice out of all of the seasons.
• Also from Samoa, Ben Browning was very much hated by fans due to him being a Politically Incorrect Villain who is racist against Yasmin and Jaison.
• To a lot of superfans, Ozzy became one after South Pacific by him becoming a Creator's Pet as well as him taking a level in jerkass. It should be noted after he announced to be on Game Changers, many people went on to dislike that casting choice. And yet he proved the haters wrong and ended up being far more likeable than he was since Cook Islands.
• Shamar because of being a annoying Jerkass and Lazy Bum who absorbed screentime from the rest of his tribemates (some of whom was fans and applied).
• After Caramoan, Dawn became this for her emotional instability and betrayal of Brenda. The fan backlash at the time was so bad Dawn had to shut down her Twitter account.
• Missy and Baylor. Both who occupied their screentime with Baylor being a princess, while Missy playing Mama Bear when any contestant called Baylor out on her bratty behavior, etc. Missy made it into the final three despite a hurting ankle, which viewers think it's unfair.
• Will, Dan and Rodney from Worlds Apart are loathed by fans. Rodney and Dan are both disrespectful, misogynist jerks with no redeeming qualities, Dan becoming even more hated when making light of Shirin's history of domestic abuse and trying to compare it to him being adopted, which had Jeff Probst call him out on being entirely different things. Will was not one, but firmly planted himself as one of the most hated contestants of all time due to his morbid, horrible attack towards Shirin, a victim of domestic abuse (which he knew about), telling her things like nobody loves her, nobody wants to see her, and his most commonly used, that she has no soul. He continues to insist that he is right about her, that he has nothing to apologize for, and that he's a good Christian man who just calls things as he sees them. To say people, especially Christian people, find Will to be lower than scum is an understatement. However, Rodney is not as hated as Dan and Will are, as some people find him more funny than annoying.
• After Cambodia, Tasha has become this due to her condescending and arrogant attitude near the end of the game (calling fan favorites Keith, Kelley, Abi, and Kimmi goats undeserving of making it to the end despite the fact they had been voted on by their fans just like everyone else). Which made it all the more hilarious and ironic when she received no votes at the end and the jury called her nothing more than a pawn in Jeremy's alliance.
• Savage received some haters from Cambodia as well for his Holier Than Thou attitude, his Irrational Hatred towards fan favorite Stephen, becoming a Sore Loser, and taking a level in jerkass.
• The pair of Jason and Scot from Kaoh Rong due to their bullying towards Alecia early on and their actions in Episode 9 sabotaging the tribe and dumping water on the fire, as well as being a bad influence on Tai. Their hatedom has only increased after voting for Michele to win, over fan favorite Aubry.
• From Millennials vs. Gen X, both Figgy and Taylor received some flak for getting into a showmance that everybody ended up knowing about in which is usually frowned upon on Survivor since having everybody know about you are in a power couple together puts a target on you and people quickly got tired of their showmance. It doesn't help much that Mari got voted out instead of Figgy during the first tribal council for the millennials along their showmance seemingly being rushed as they got together five days in the game and they even told Jeff they wanted to get married on Day 18 which makes it very ironic that they broke-up after the show. Even more so after Figgy got eliminated when it was revealed Taylor has a pregnant girlfriend outside the show and Figgy was only using Taylor and never loved him. Taylor is receiving even more hate for being a Jerkass and his immature behavior, most notably stealing food from the merge feast with the excuse that he was hungry, when TWELVE other people were hungry. It doesn't help much that Taylor managed to be a total idiot in the game.
• Also from Millennials vs. Gen X, Zeke ended up gaining some haters for going after David with his anxiety issues along with Brett. In addition, Zeke failed to live up some hype Jeff Probst stated about him stating that he was the main reason the main reason to watch this season and was overshadowed by players such as David, Adam, Michaela, and Jay. It only got worst he was cast for Survivor: Game Changers instead of some of the more popular male castaways of his first season. Zeke got pulled out from the scrappy heap in Game Changers... for a bit as he regained his status as a Scrappy character due to his idiotic betrayal of Andrea and Cirie.
• Mike Skupin from Australia has become this for his actions off of the show. He was charged with child pornography and running a ponzi scheme, which has caused many people to hate him.
• Jeff Varner gained a considerable amount of hate after Episode 7 of Game Changers for outing Zeke as transgender as a game move, which was seen as a personal attack on him.
• J.T. Thomas has gotten this status due to his participation in Malcolm's very controversial exit from Game Changers after making a yet another idiotic move in the game.
• Sarah Lacina became this in Game Changers. At first it was due to her being one of the more obscure choices for a season called Game Changers, but then most of the fanbase started to get sick of her due to how bland and monotone she was, and the overly positive editing she's receiving —- especially since it took screen time away from the remaining fan favorites. Many people are hoping she won't win, fearing she's getting an obvious winner's edit. They were right.
• Kellyn from Ghost Island is often considered to be a boring contestant on her season in which is not helped by the fact she keeps on constantly trying to pagong the Malolo tribe in which makes for boring television, and while her season was airing, many fans ended up hoping that she would get voted out. Eventually, she does, but in the episodes just beforehand, she takes a huge level in jerkass from being kicked around by the game and becomes evident as a Creator's Pet who overstayed her welcome.
• Also from Ghost Island there is Angela and Laurel. While both started off well by actually trying to play the game, they end up gaining plenty of hate late in the merge due to both being goats that hadn't done much except for allowing better players like Domenick and Wendell to control the game, despite both expressing the idea of overthrowing them. Laurel especially since she said she wanted to play for glory, which she certainly lacks.
• From David Vs. Goliath, Jeremy has become this. While he was well-liked during the first two episodes, many people stated to dislike him after he stated that nobody would attend Natalie's funeral if she were to die tomorrow during his boot episode. Then, after that episode was aired, he bitterly slandered his former tribe mates, claiming that Angelina and John Hennigan voted him out to hide their "showmance" from their respective partners, and body-shamed both Natalie Cole and Dan Rengering on Instagram, stating that photoshop couldn't hide their real weight in person. Many of his former tribe mates have called him out on it, and many fans, who had previously liked him for being entertaining, no longer find him endearing or likable.
• Joining the ranks of David vs. Goliath, is Natalia for her attitude after getting blindside, her ego believing she's in control of the game, and threatening Davie to side with her. Wishing for Alec, the person who blindsided her, to receive physical pain really didn't help her popularity.
• Joe Anglim has gotten a lot of hate thanks to accusations of him being a Creator's Pet and how people believe that the Edge of Extinction twist (aka a twist was heavily Tainted by the Preview) would benefit him.

Let me state one obvious problem with this. Are we allowed to have real life people as Scrappies? I mean we're not allowed them to be Complete Monsters or Magnificent Bastards.

Second, some of these examples fall under more Base-Breaking Character like Joe Anglim who despite a decline in popularity, hardly has the hatedom needed for a Scrappy.

And Jeff Varner is very very cruel to place as a "Scrappy" as the guy literally tried to kill himself after the show. Not only that, but castaways have been outing LGBTQ people since the beginning (such as Rudy and gay contestant and winner Richard Hatch) and no one had any issues with them then. I get we live in a more PC world, but good lord, is that reason to have so much hate directed at a man who put his foot in his mouth, lost his job, and nearly killed himself? In the end, you really aren't being much better than these people.

Also Oscar "Ozzy" Lusth has plenty of fans who still find him endearing and it's more a vocal minority on website Survivor Sucks, and he was Rescued from the Scrappy Heap.

As for Dawn, she literally had to shut down her Twitter account because some idiots thought it would be okay to send a 45 year old woman death threats just because she chose to vote Brenda out and didn't take her on the reward like she promised instead taking Cochran.

What do you guys think?

Edited by Klavice on Mar 14th 2019 at 8:33:54 AM

I've always been of the opinion that even if they appear on a gameshow, they're still real people. I disagree with people who use the justification that they don't count as real people because the show is edited. I think that's just an excuse to trope real people. I think they should only count as actors if they're explicitly portraying a character, rather than themselves. Reality shows are a shady ground on that, and I'd rather err on the side of showing some respect for people rather than treating them like they're not real.

YMMv.Animal Crossing:

• Resetti, for some. If the game is turned off without saving, he pops out of the ground to yell at you for not playing the way he wants it to be played. If you keep it up, his rants get longer and longer, making resetting a pain. Especially in Wild World and City Folk, where you can't prevent him from showing up.^note New Leaf makes him optional, and the GameCube version allows you to prevent him from showing up by placing an item where he would appear if you reset. It's especially grating if the player is forced to reset due to matters beyond their control (e.g., you caught a griefer of a visitor trying to brick your village and had to reset to keep the bricking from becoming permanent as well as to boot him/her out, or worse, you actually experienced a bug that crashed the game). Luckily, in New Leaf Resetti preemptively asks you why you reset your game, and he'll only lecture you if you say that you intentionally reset (the other two options just prompt a quick reminder, e.g., "charge your batteries").
• Even worse is Gracie, the rude giraffe that will berate your sense of style simply because it doesn't match hers (his in the Japanese version). The GameCube "mini-game" in which you had to mash the A button in order to wash her car made it even worse, as most of the time, you would only get common clothing you could get anywhere else. Although trying to get her to set up shop in New Leaf can still verge on Guide Dang It! territory, her car never shows up in any capacity. To say how bad the car washing minigame is, it's possible to fail using a turbo controller.
• Pavé in New Leaf is not well liked among the fandom for often being obnoxious and berating the player for not dancing even if the player uses the Shrunk Funk Shuffle, as well as his minigame not being very fun.
• Introduced in Wild World is Lyle, an annoying insurance salesman who would relentlessly try to get players to buy insurance from him on Saturdays. His insurance wasn't even worth the money since it only occasionally covers bee stings, falls and forged paintings for a pitiful amount of money. Thankfully, he lost his job as an insurance salesman in City Folk and was forced to work at the Happy Room Academy.
• Katie isn't very well liked due to her annoying sidequest, which requires you to head to another person's town. Her crybaby personality, slow walking speed, and high frequency of showing up make her case worse.

"For some" is weaselwording something that's by implication is not an example.

"Not well liked" is undermining the examples by understatement.

"Even worse" is complaining.

Resetti is more of a Base-Breaking Character nowadays. If anything, he should be considered a Scrappy Mechanic

I have question about this entry from YMMV.Shokugeki No Soma:

• Asahi quickly earned ire as the never-before-mentioned disciple of Jouichiro, who is given The Worf Effect to build the former up as the next Arc Villain. Similar to Soma's base-breaking status, this character proceeds to take Soma to the curb by being better than him in all aspects, while easily making advances on Erina, further hammering in how ridiculously perfect the character is. Following a kidnapping stunt on Erina, it appears as if the character is meant to simply be repulsive.

And this was added to TheScrappy.Anime And Manga:

• Shokugeki no Soma: The Noirs and their leader Asahi Saiba are panned by readers for having cliché personalities, zero convictions and implausible culinary skills that irrevocably bastardized the premise of the manga, triggering a Seasonal Rot and a Romantic Plot Tumor. Erina Nakiri is also criticized for being given too much focus and yet she is indecisive and inconsistent, especially when the previous arc was devoted to her Character Development. The Bookmaster's true identity was also not well received.
  • Asahi Saiba in particular is loathed by virtually everyone. He is hellbent on possessing Erina at all costs, without any value for her feelings. He is a bad case of an Arrogant Kung-Fu Guy and despises Soma just for being Joichiro's only biological son. He doesn't have any interesting personality trait or conviction and his Dark and Troubled Past is cliché. Even his Cross Knives ability is far too implausible and flawless to exist because it allows him to instantly master and combine the styles of many master chefs as well as easily surpass them without any real practice. Also he can easily defeat characters who were previously established as consummate chefs (Joichiro and Eishi), making him an Invincible Villain.

Asahi is already covered under Hate Sink and I think it was added without discussion on this page. I already removed the part with Asahi, but it was quickly re-added. Permission to remove them?

Edited by gjjones on Mar 16th 2019 at 9:55:03 AM

Being a Hate Sink does not prevent a character from being The Scrappy if they're hated for reasons other than being a bad guy. The entry as currently written does not convey this, but the fandom nearly universally loathes Asahi not only as a person (which is what a Hate Sink is), but as a character as well. He's seen as a poorly-written Villain Sue (his first appearance has him effortlessly defeat Joichiro, previously considered to be the most skilled chef in the story), he relies on explicitly supernatural abilities in a universe that previously put up at least a pretense of realism, and fans have pointed out that the manga's quality as a whole took a massive nose dive right as he was introduced.

Fans don't want to see Asahi get his comeuppance as they would with a Hate Sink. They want to see him written out of the story entirely (I've seen multiple readers proclaim that they'd rather have a chapter reveal that everything that happened since Asahi's appearance was All Just a Dream).

The first bullet point of the example on TheScrappy.Anime And Manga should be cut for being about several characters at once. Erina in particular is far from a Scrappy, being one of the most popular characters (nearly every fan who's still reading the manga after the aforementioned dive in quality does so because they want to see whether she'll hook up with Soma).

"quickly earned ire" is bad wording, especially if it's about lasting hate. The phrase brings to mind memes that live for one or two weeks before everyone forgets about them. That's not what The Scrappy is about.

"The Noirs and their leader Asahi Saiba" is a group. The whole main bullet point there is a mess of vague mentions and weaselwording.

It's been several months since Asahi was introduced, and fans have not warmed up to him at all, so the hatred is definitely long-lasting enough.

Hence why I said it's bad wording, and if kept it should be reworded.

There's a candidate of Scrappy I'm considering, but I'm not sure if I should add it immediately or not. Where do I discuss such prospect? Here?

Yes, precisely.

All right then. My proposal is on Michael Garret from GUN×SWORD. If I were to write things up, this is how it will look like in the YMMV:

• The Scrappy: Hoo boy, Michael Garret tends to be that one character that draws no positive reaction, only indifference at best. He abandoned his sister Wendy for the Clawed Man's cause on the drop of a hat with little persuasion, and then act like he's completely indoctrinated to the Clawed Man's 'for a better world' propaganda wholeheartedly, all while everyone, Wendy included, thought he was making a fool out of himself. Whenever that is brought into question, Michael tends to react violently and goes utterly defensive for the Clawed Man. All these and unlike others, including Fasalina, Michael really had no Freudian Excuse or Dark and Troubled Past that justified his joining, which didn't endear the fans any. Being convinced to stay on the Clawed Man's side because he had sex with Fasalina was also a contention point, though some would think it was a redeeming factor because they genuinely fell in love eventually, some thought that it was not enough for Michael. And lastly, in Japan, he's voiced by Soichiro Hoshi, who previously voiced the rather controversial Kira Yamato, which brought back bad memories for the watchers who fell into the more extreme Broken Base of that show because Michael is considered a 'second coming' of Kira. A lot of comments directed to the show or him tends to just notify how much he's one of the worst brothers in anime history and not deserving any sympathy or Wendy's efforts.

... So is he legit?

Kira was The Scrappy? I would say he fits under BBC not Scrappy. I wouldn't consider anyone from the Cosmic Era to be a Scrappy not even Flay.

Wait what? "The second coming of Kira"? I'd say he's more like Shinn Asuka than Kira Yamato from the looks of it.

I would say he's unpopular but since most of the entry spends timw complaining about how this character is a Kira knockoff minus the likeability and uses a few Weasel Words, I'd say it could be cleaned up.

Edited by Klavice on Mar 24th 2019 at 6:41:32 AM