Is this an example?

So I was checking on Vikings work page and when I was reading Bittersweet Ending example, I thought one of the detail has nothing to do with this trope. Bold words mean that I highlight it.

• Bittersweet Ending: Ivar's self-destruction comes to an end when he dies on the battlefield weeping. Hvitserk is captured by the Christians and forced to convert. The last we see of him is giving a hollow-eyed smile. For better or worse, Kattegat is now ruled by Ingrid, a ruthless sorceress. Ubbe and Floki share a peaceful moment of reflection while gazing out at the sunrise over the ocean in the New World, but we know from history that no permanent Norse settlement will arise there, so his group will either abandon it or die out.

What does it mean by " giving a hollow-eyed smile"? I just don't know the meaning of it and how it has something to do with this trope.

Edited by Bubblepig on Oct 4th 2021 at 4:58:34 AM

“What is that? It's The Unknown!”

when someone smiles with their mouth, but still looks sad or "hollow" with their eyes, showing that they're not smiling because they're happy. it contributes to the description by showing that the character recognizes what a bad situation they're in.

Yikes, I feel bad for him. Anyway, thank you for explaining it. Also sorry for not understanding some words. It's just sometimes hard for me to understand some new meaning of some words.

“What is that? It's The Unknown!”

no worries

I had no replies from earlier, so I have re-posted this.

From the Video Games folder of The Moral Substitute:

• A non-religious example is The Simpsons Hit & Run, which gained popularity among younger gamers for being a solid but still family-friendly Grand Theft Auto clone. The only attack is kicking, people who are run over just cartoonishly bounce around, the player characters hitchhike cars instead of stealing them, the worst that happens if the player is caught by the police is having to pay a 50 coin fine, and it's impossible to die at all - the worst that can happen is the player getting hit by a shot from the wasp camera enemies and losing coins. Fairly ironic, considering how controversial The Simpsons was at its peak.

Yes, given that Chex Quest is a valid example, should Fate be added as a moral substitute for Diablo? If not, then The Simpsons Hit & Run example should be removed (and The Moral Substitute is mentioned in the work page itself).

Kirby is awesome.

Reposting from the previous page.

This was removed from Characters.RWBY Adam Taurus:

• The Starscream: The scroll Sun and Blake manage to retrieve from Ilia reveals that Adam is planning a coup against the current White Fang leader Sienna Khan. In "Dread in the Air", he carries out said coup and murders Sienna by running her through with Wilt.

Is this a valid example of The Starscream or would a different trope apply here?

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Got a couple of things to ask:

1. For Hostage Video, does the trope apply if there's a screenshot taken from a hostage video as a warning to someone?

2. For Private Military Contractors, does it apply for a private security company in a country that does not provide armed guards and all (I'm thinking liket those from Japan)?

"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"

The description of Defied Trope talks about being Genre Savvy and Leaning on the Fourth Wall, while Averted Trope is supposed to mean that the trope is never referenced.

So what is the appropriate usage when a trope is mentioned, but prevented from actually occurring, for perfectly valid In-Universe reasons? Eg fanfic of Neon Genesis Evangelion will often change something that ends up preventing the Downer Ending/Gainax Ending from canon. It's not really an Averted Trope, because the characters may be very aware of the threatening apocalypse, discuss it at length, and work to prevent it, but since it's not based on the fourth wall, either, it doesn't seem to properly match Defied Trope. But if there isn't a Downer/Gainax Ending, it isn't played straight. So how should the change from canon be documented?

Edited by ThrawnCA on Oct 5th 2021 at 6:47:45 PM

From BittersweetEnding.Western Animation:

• The finale of the first season of Avatar: The Last Airbender. Zhao is defeated (and killed) and the Northern Water Tribe is defended, but Yue must go to become the moon spirit, Iroh and Zuko are fully branded as traitors and have no one but each other, and Fire Lord Ozai has decided to become more proactive, and sends out his top enforcer, his daughter.
  • The finale of the second season concludes with the Earth Kingdom falling to the Fire nation, which marks the coup a success. And the Avatar's death, which would later proceed to kill the hope that the people had. The episode also marks Zuko's betrayal of his Uncle Iroh, and Katara. But King Kuei survives, and Aang is resurrected by Katara and the spirit water.

The issue is that neither of these are actually endings, just season finales that were always intended to lead into the next season. Their not leaving the audience with a bittersweet feeling at the end of the story, they're leaving them wondering what will happen next, as the story is unresolved. This seems pretty different from a Bittersweet Ending. Am I right on this?

You are completely right.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Are episode-specific ending tropes not valid? Or are they just not valid if it's a serialized story?

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Wait, never mind. What am I thinking? Of course you can have ending tropes for seasons and arcs. They should be taken in context, though.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 5th 2021 at 8:15:43 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I think "Ray of Hope" Ending fits the s2 ending better.

For s1, I'd take out "and Fire Lord Ozai has decided to become more proactive, and sends out his top enforcer, his daughter." — that's just standard Sequel Hook stuff (or whatever the arc equivalent of that is).

Hm... that method of character introduction seems like it should be its own trope, if it isn't already.

Edited by Twiddler on Oct 5th 2021 at 5:29:59 AM

Okay, this is a weird one.

I want to add an example for a work that doesn't have a page yet, but I'm not sure which of two tropes it falls under.

The work is a yuri slice of life for the most part with no fantasy elements, until the third book, where a character is revealed to be a Friendly Neighborhood Vampire. Thing is, it barely affects the plot, is rarely brought up, and only becomes moderately plot relevant twice more before said vampire is Put on a Bus. The question is whether it counts as a Genre Shift or an Out-of-Genre Experience.

My troper wall

But the page description for Bittersweet Ending focuses on it being the ending of a story. I would agree that in a more episodic story, it could include the resolutions of individual episodes/arcs, but these season finales aren't resolutions to anything, especially season two. They're meant to lead directly into the next season, with the central conflict still unresolved.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Oct 5th 2021 at 8:32:13 AM

Would like some feedback for this (but fair warning for some Squick-y examples of abuse, grooming, etc.)

I'm working on the page for My Dark Vanessa, which is a book that follows a teenage girl in an abusive and predatory relationship with her teacher, and later, when other girls come forward with similar experiences, her conflict on whether to join them in speaking up.

So in the book, the titular main character is obsessed with Lolita—heavily implied to be because it allows her to justify her and her teacher's relationship by saying that he and Humbert were both "powerless against falling in love with young girls." When she later talks to someone about the book, she mentions a scene in which Humbert gives Lo a pair of pajamas—except that never happened in Lolita. Vanessa's teacher gave her a pair of pajamas, and she falsely remembered it being an actual scene in Lolita.

Is this an example of Cannot Tell Fiction from Reality?

Edited by iamconstantine on Oct 6th 2021 at 11:59:39 AM

Does anyone at least have any rewrite suggestions for the ATLA examples?

It's either an example or an inverted example, but we can't tell from the description whether Cannot Tell Fiction from Reality is or isn't trying to specifically be "thinks fiction is real".

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Oct 6th 2021 at 11:35:01 AM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

In the second half of RWBY Volume 7, once Jacques Schnee's treachery is exposed, the local police place Jacques Schnee in a paddywagon and drive away from the Schnee Manor. He returns in the next volume, still in jail.

Since Jacques does appear not long after his arrest, is this a valid example of the Put on a Prison Bus trope?

Edited by gjjones on Oct 6th 2021 at 3:27:09 PM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

My first instinct is to say that's not an example since he does come back, but I would like to know how soon after his arrest he appears.

A smile better suits a hero

Well, Jacques is arrested in "As Above, So Below" (which is the ninth chapter of the seventh volume; it has a total of 13 chapters) and he doesn’t make any further appearances until six chapters later in "Refuge" (the second chapter of the eighth volume). Hope this helps.

Edited by gjjones on Oct 6th 2021 at 6:37:19 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

Well, Bus tropes are about removing a character from the show. That isn't what happens here. He's arrested and taken to gaol, the show concentrates on the main characters for the last few episodes of the volume; that's just the Out of Focus trope. However, as a recurring minor character, he's never been an every-episode character to begin with; he only ever appears as needed. The next volume sees him featuring in the gaol scenes, where he, a major villain and two of the heroes spend a lot of their time.

He does leave the show eventually — but not via a Bus trope.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Oct 6th 2021 at 11:23:11 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

The following examples are also on the Put on a Prison Bus page:

• The James Bond franchise has a few examples, which particularly stand out because usually the villains wind up dead (whether killed by Bond, one of his allies, Hoist by Their Own Petard or Killed Offscreen):
  • In Dr. No, Bond deals with Dr. No's spy Miss Taro by calling the local police to take her away.
  • The Man with the Golden Gun: Non-villainous example with sheriff-turned Hawaiian-Shirted Tourist J.W. Pepper, who's last seen being taken away by Thai police.
  • The Living Daylights: In a rare case of a main villain not being killed outright, the wily Georgi Koskov is ultimately arrested by the Russians after all his schemes unravel. His last scene leaves it open to interpretation whether they're going to imprison him or simply execute him but in either case, he's taken away and never seen again.
  • Casino Royale: villain Mr. White ends up victim of Karma Houdini Warranty after fleeing with the $150 million that Bond won at the Casino Royale poker tournament, as Bond catches up with him, knee-caps him and arrests him. He escapes in the next film.
  • Quantum of Solace: Bond finds out Yusef Kabira (the man responsible for seducing Vesper Lynd into becoming a double agent, leading to her death) is alive and finds him in Russia, holding him at gunpoint. Despite the case being personal since he loved Vesper and saw her die, Bond lets MI6 arrest the guy since what he knows is too invaluable.
  • Spectre: for the first time in the franchise, Ernst Stavro Blofeld neither escapes nor dies. He gets arrested instead, with Bond sparing his life. He shows up again in No Time to Die, still in prison.

Given that some of the characters do show up in later installments (i.e. Mr. White, Blofeld), should we consider removing those that might not count?

Edited by gjjones on Oct 6th 2021 at 6:39:31 AM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.

The Bus tropes really need some cleaning. So often they're used for characters reappearing who were not written out of the show.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I agree.

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.