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openNot experienced with editing here, why is this like this? Literature
So I wanted to add a trope example to https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/WarriorCatsTheOriginalSeries but when I opened the editor I found it was already there, but upon closing the editor again I didn't see it. Opening the page normally on one tab and in editor in another, I discovered that the example I wanted to add as well as a bunch of others, maybe a third of the page's total examples, had "
resolved Ellen and Otis: Gone Horribly Wrong Literature
On the page for Ellen and Otis, the example for Gone Horribly Wrong reads as follows:
However, she doesn't get in trouble for taking the beet without permission, she isn't shown being written up, and she does get to clap erasers during recess, which is why she brought the beet to school in the first place. So, does this really count as an example of GHW, or is it some other trope?
openShould this be an example? Literature
I'm alphabetising Blah, Blah, Blah and I'm unsure how to sort this example:
- Dave Barry, after writing a column complaining about Neil Diamond's songs, in particular a Painful Rhyme in "I Am, I Said," received a great deal of hate mail from irate Neil Diamond fans, which he condensed into this all-purpose letter incorporating most of what they were fuming about:
Dear Pukenose:
It's in the Literature folder, but instead of the usual fashion of examples saying "this is an example that occurs in a work", it reads to me as "this is an example in a writer's critique of another work". The best way I can think of alphabetising this is by author surname, but I'm wondering if it should be an example in the first place if it's not about a fictional/narrative-driven media.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
Edited by BlackFaithStaropenLiterature/ACertainMagicalIndex -- Main Page review Literature
Hello, inexperienced Troper/editor here
Wanted to ask if some people could take a look at the main page for A Certain Magical Index that I've been adding to recently so that I can get a second opinion as to whether the tropes section should further be split into more folders for ease of reading (currently, only 4 folders are in use). For those familiar with this work, I also posted a question as to whether the the page should be further compartmentalized into different series (OT, NT, and GT) so that those who have only caught up to the anime aren't being bombarded with examples and spoilers from the novels, but I then realised that different tropes are used by different series, so I'm not quite sure how that'd work. Would love if people had some suggestions.
Last thing I want to ask: there's a few mentions scattered about (on said page and elsewhere) for a certain character, Kuroko Shirai, being a lesbian based on her interactions with character Mikoto. I'm wondering whether this would fall under Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment since her sexual orientation has never been outright confirmed, only alluded to. I'll leave it at that, but I am willing to explain further if more information is required.
Thanks everyone.
Edited by TheLaserSonicresolved Literature/Victoria - A troper has been busily re-adding tropes cut during a cleanup Literature
Troper Axe 23 has been busy re-adding tropes to Literature/Victoria page that were removed in the cleanup thread without going through the cleanup thread first. What should be done about that?
I tried to message them, but they never replied.
Cleanup thread here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16063931900A23789400&page=8
Now, I know that normally it is the opposite rule here, if you see a trope on a page (say Knight in Shining Armor ) mentioning a work, you should go to the work page and add an example to it. That is normal crosswicking. The issue here is that there was a clean-up of the work page but wick cleaning of the other pages was never completed (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16063931900A23789400&page=7#comment-161 ) after sandbox swap.
You can recognize the cleaned up wicks on the other pages because they point to Literature/Victoria instead of towards Victoria: A Novel of 4th Generation War and they should be deleted and not crosswicked back to the main work page.
Edited by youngstormlordresolved Validity of an example Literature
Wasn't sure where to put this, didn't seem like it belonged in "Is this an Example". I was adding something to ThenLetMeBeEvil.Literature and happened to find this:
- Fagin in Oliver Twist is such an anti-Semitic caricature that Dickens himself grew ashamed at the remonstrations of several Jewish acquaintances, mended his beliefs, and wrote much more sympathetic Jewish characters in the future. However, since Oliver Twist was so popular and has so frequently been adapted, the adapters have had to deal with the Unfortunate Implications somehow. Some of them have used this, depicting Fagin's villainy less as a stereotype and more as an understandable response to the grinding poverty and degradation he would have suffered due to the relentless classism and anti-Semitism in England in the period.
The whole example is basically complaining about Fagin being a Greedy Jew stereotype, which, fair enough! But the example
- doesn't even get to illustrating the trope until halfway through.
- isn't actually an example for the linked source material but rather about unnamed adaptations.
- is violating Examples Are Not General by not specifying any adaptations in particular.
So I think this should probably be cut. Agreed?
Edited by StarSwordopenEdit war with big time gap Literature
On Run with the Wind in 2022, Jack The Hammer added a sub-bullet under No Export for You to link to a fan translation. I removed it around that time because 1) it didn't add anything to the original example and 2) because I assume linking to a non-legal translation is iffy.
Just recently a similar edit linking to the same fan translation was made by Jack The Hammer, just different wording.
Due to the big gap between the two edits, it's not clear to me if the user remembers making the original edit or not. Either way, am I free to undo the edit?
openWhere to put some LMM examples? Literature
Lucy Maud Montgomery's page has a few examples from the Chronicles of Avonlea books. It's specified that all examples from books that have their own pages don't count. The thing is, the Chronicles books are explicitly in the world of Anne of Green Gables, even if Anne only makes a few cameos. So what do we do? Option 1. Move the Chronicles examples from Maud's page to the Anne page and add a note to Maud's page listing all 11/12 (it's complicated) books in the Anne series, all three Emily books, etc. Option 2. Split off all miscellaneous Maud short stories into their own page, including the Chronicles books, preserving Maud's page for the authoress herself and recurring tropes only.
openExpanding Book Recap(s) Literature
Hey!
I've recently been hyperfocused on the Five Nights at Freddy's books, specifically Fazbear Frights and Tales from the Pizzaplex, which have the same page on here. I think separate "recap/characters/etc" pages for the different shorts (the way TV episodes are, example: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/BlackMirrorTheNationalAnthem ) would be very helpful, and I would be down to add, like, all of them if wanted. I have enough passion to get through a good chunk of em at least.
Is that, like, a good idea? Or too much? I just figured I should ask first cause I am always worried about making new pages/additions without permission. I know that making excessive pages can be annoying, I just think it would actually be very helpful and I would love to help out.
Thanks, Connie
Edited by ConnieBlackwoodopenTrope Page for specific work Literature
I was reading the trope page for 'One Steve Limit' and noticed the Warriors Cats entry was missing a multitude of examples. I began adding them, using the Warriors wiki as a backup if I could not remember. Anyhow part of the way through, I noticed that despite me not being close to done, the section was getting very wordy. It is also almost entirely just a list of identical names, not adding shared prefix or suffix characters. I was wondering if I would be able to give Warriors Cats a "One Steve Limit" page where I could add all of the examples and then give relevant book appearance information and allegiances. Please let me know if there is either a procedure to do this or an avenue I have to ask. Thanks
openEntries split between title and author Literature
So something I've noticed on a few different trope pages, most recently Techno Dystopia, that the Literature examples are sorted in two different ways: by author, with there being a handful of entries by different authors, and then by work, with all other entries being under this category. I don't see this on all trope pages and was wondering if this is correct or if it should be changed.
Edited by cannen144resolved Are name associate tropes a thing? Literature
In writing/character building, are there tropes associated with names?
For example, the name ‘Brock’ or ‘Chad’ could be associated with the stereotypical rich, frat boy characters. While “Jake” or ‘John’ with the big tough guy types ...i.e. ‘ big Jake’ / ‘big John’. ‘Biff’ & ‘Buffy’ with the affluent rich of the Californian Valley. If this is a thing, is there a list I can glean from?
openNo Title Literature
Troper Aurorula has made various edits on https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/TheGreatDivorce and related pages that demonstrate a failure to understand how the site works. It's taken me three hours to clean it up. I spoke with them in July of this year over previous inappropriate image use, referring them to the Administrivia Image Pickin' guidelines. Standards not being met include:
- Inserting inappropriate images all over the pages, including the Headscratchers section.
- Misusing headers and titles within Headscratchers that come off as patronizing.
- Several examples of Speculative Troping with a Wall of Text.
- Several Zero-Context Example entries, or pasting extracts from the author's work as context.
- Paragraphs of Word Cruft within comments tags/source code of the page, that turn the article into their personal development blog.
openNeed Help With Editing Literature
Hi! So, I’ve created a new page, but I don’t know how to add the ‘tropes’ section. Example: This work provides examples of: with the list of tropes under it. Another thing is, could I request my page to be edited for me? I’m new here. Thanks in advance! Here’s the link:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/BeforeTheSoulrenderTakesHisToll
resolved Media category question Literature
I am aware that Web Serial Novels go under the Literature category, not Web Original, but does the same apply to all online literature? For example, say you've got a collection of short stories with no shared plot but a common setting or narrative theme — that wouldn't be a serial novel, but would it still be considered to go under Literature?
openWarrior Cats needs organization Literature
Hey there, so Warrior Cats has an organization problem, with various tropers setting up different pages in different ways (apparently over the years) without being aware of each other. We've got a bunch of essentially duplicate pages and aren't sure what the "right" way to organize all this is.
Sorry in advance for the wall of text.
Basically to explain how the work is set up: Warrior Cats is a book series consisting of just over 100 works at this point. The "main" series is split into six-book-long story arcs, and there's dozens of side books and stories (standalone extra-long-or-short books, graphic novels, short stories/plays posted on the official website, etc) - these side books consist of side adventures, perspective flips, prequels, etc. Altogether, this makes up one long consistent story, just pieces from different POVs, with lots of overlap between them (see this crazy image◊ which is an accurate, up-to-date depiction of how everything fits together). There's also a tabletop game that they included in the back of some of the books, and some games (browser games and an official Roblox environment).
So as far as the TV Tropes pages, originally it was just one long Literature page, Literature/WarriorCats. I also created a Recap page for the individual books since I felt it was the cleanest way rather than creating 100 work pagesmy reasoning there aren't always many examples, especially for the short stories, and the Funny, YMMV, etc subpages would be basically blank if needed at all. This would also make linking on trope pages cleaner as it can just link to Literature/WarriorCats - especially since several of the books are a perspecive flip that cover the same situations so the example would appear in multiple books. Other lengthy works like Animorphs have done similar.
Anyway, I've since discovered that other tropers have made individual pages for some of the books or story arcs, so we have essentially a whole bunch of duplicates going on, many of which are definitely out of date.
So yeah, what we currently have:
- Literature/WarriorCats, the original page containing examples from the whole series, which has often been used as the main page/the one linked to in examples on trope pages. It also contains Funny, Tearjerker, YMMV, Trivia, etc from all the books.
- Recap/WarriorCats with each book having its own recap page with examples
- Franchise/WarriorCats
- Pages for individual books or portions of the series, some of which have their own examples and ymmv, funny, etc pages. In many but not all cases, these are duplicates of the examples either on the equivalent Literature/WarriorCats page, or an individual book's Recap page.
- The individual six-book-long arcs: Warrior Cats: The Original Series, Warrior Cats: The New Prophecy, Warrior Cats: Power of Three, Warrior Cats: Omen of the Stars, Warrior Cats: Dawn of the Clans, Warrior Cats: A Vision of Shadows, Warrior Cats: The Broken Code, Warrior Cats: A Starless Clan
- Warrior Cats: SkyClan Saga, a messy grouping of some of the Super Editions, graphic novels, and novellas, covering a sort of side story arc about the exile & rebuilding of a missing faction. The page is missing some books relevant to it but that story arc has since merged with the main story anyway.
- Warrior Cats Prequel Super Editions, another messy grouping of some of the side books that take place around the same time as each other. They're not the only prequels, or the only books that take place during this time period anymore.
- Warrior Cats Novellas, a grouping specifically of the shorter-than-normal novellas that take place across the whole series. Theoretically they could fit on one of the previously listed pages or multiple, depending on the novella, and otherwise have nothing to do with each other
- Warrior Cats (manga), a grouping specifically of the "manga" side stories. Manga/WarriorCats redirects to this page. Note that there's some confusion as to what to label these as, since they originally were branded as "manga", then reprinted & had new come out as "graphic novels", and as of the last week or so they announced that they're also going to be adapting the actual first story arc into its own graphic novel adaptation (the existing ones had all been original stories rather than a straight adaptation of a book).
- Books/etc with their own pages (note that some are under Literature, one is under Comic Book, one is under Theatre): Bramblestar's Storm, Moth Flight's Vision, Tigerheart's Shadow, Crowfeather's Trial, Warrior Cats: The Rise of Scourge, Brightspirit's Mercy
- TabletopGame/WarriorsAdventureGame for the tabletop game at the back of the books
If I had it my way, I'd axe the separate arc/manga/prequel-super-edition/skyclan saga/novella/individual book pages, and move anything from those that's not a duplicate back to the main Warrior Cats pages or corresponding book's Recap page. Those pages are for the most part duplicates, out of date, and honestly hard to categorize the side books since there's so much overlap (see image I linked above).
I'd keep Franchise/WarriorCats, Literature/WarriorCats, the recap pages, and TabletopGame/WarriorsAdventureGame since that is technichally a separate thing that isn't part of the books' long story. And if I can think of tropes for the indivdual games then I'd give those their own pages, with a VideoGame/WarriorCats linking to them. I don't know if we'd need a Manga(or comic book or whatever)/WarriorCats or Theatre/WarriorCats pages for the graphic novels and short plays: for the books currently known as graphic novels I'm not sure what the proper namespace is for the books, they're not really considered a separate "work" by fans from the main series, and I don't know if/how to sort the existing ones which are side adventures vs the upcoming straight adaptation. The plays are very short things posted on the official site which have very few applicable tropes which I think is sufficiently covered by a Recap page.
But yeah, just wanted to check if there's a "right" way to organize this, and if we do go removing a bunch of pages, what the correct process for that would look like (if I've requested anything to be cut before it's been years.)
Edited by Dawnwingresolved Cut a page with mostly poorly written examples? Literature
I was doing a wick check for If You Call Before Midnight Tonight and found this work page for a children's book. It's filled with zero-context and poorly written examples (including linking a useful note as a trope example on a work page which isn't allowed). I see only two passably written examples on the page. Should we just cut this page?
ADDENDUM: Also, Batteries Not Included isn't on the Useful Notes page.
Edited by supernintendo128openSpace Cat Fascists (Katzis) Literature
I was wondering if there was a trope for space cats who happen to be fascist. Specifically, I personally have come across a minimum of three instances of this (Stephen Arseneault's Sodium series, Craig Alanson's Expeditionary Force series, and the Gigastructural Engineering mod for Stellaris (video game)). While I would put this under the TLP, as I couldn't find any, I feel that I'm too inexperienced to do so. Additionally, while I only mentioned 3, I'm fairly certain there are more examples.
-Post Script: Also, the reason I spelled "Katzis" with a K is a bit of homage to the difference between orcs in fantasy and orks in sci-fi. (Including the Our Orcs Are Different page on this very wiki).
Edited by Tabs
Seen examples for both Reign of the Seven Spellblades and Trapped in a Dating Sim: The World of Otome Games is Tough for Mobs, respectively Fridge Logic and Fridge Horror, where there's a preexisting entry on a Fridge page that then got explained away in a later volume.
Should these be deleted with an edit reason to that effect, or treated like WMG where we note there's now a canonical resolution?
Edited by StarSword