During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Fair enough, personally I was thinking add the wheelchair falling down the stairs to make it more clear?
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Kao and Tokkentakker.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tokkentakker
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Mar 1st 2021 at 12:35:33 PM
The Moron
Don't mind me, absolutely losing my shit at poor Sky's unfortunate timing
Yes to Kao, keep Tokk with the recommended update
to Lester Hoag, Arbaces, Ludwig von Tökkentäkker, and Dr. Kao.
The Timeless One
Given there's enough depraved monsters connected to EC Comics/Tales From the Crypt((9) now to make the Crypt-Keeper himself look like an All-Loving Hero, is anyone in favor of a Tales From the Crypt/EC Comics page?
"I am the lord of Purity, who tolerates no deviation." My first online story
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, not sure it's necessary, though for consolidation purposes it wouldn't hurt. 3 from the show, 4 from the comics, Demon Knight, and Cryptkeeper.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
How connected in an official sense is the Tales stuff the original EC works again? I don't really mind either way but I know we were trying to chill on subpages.
"The Juice is Loose."
I mean I don't know the franchise super well. Is there a chance that there's one we missed, or some more in the future? I wouldn't be opposed, just trying to make sure it's necessary.
Edited by Bullman on Mar 1st 2021 at 10:18:21 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well, looking at this, most if not all of the episodes were based on the comics. As for Demon Knight and Cryptkeeper, I couldn't say.
I'm not entirely sure we need a page, at least not yet. While I think Lighty's probably plumbed the show itslf, the comics are different. Given there are like 200 plus issues, with each issue containing a few stories, that makes over 800 stories, so there DEFINITELY may be more. The ones that inspired the episodes with the CM's may be worth a look.
Edited by ACW on Mar 1st 2021 at 11:23:35 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
In that case let's leave it until someone deep dives the comics.
I'm rather against an EC comics page, TBH. The show, while based on it, is distinct enough for its own thing and even if there's like a zillion EC stories, the vast, vast, VAST majority have no hint of a keeper.
Also, happy 99th birthday to William Gaines of EC, fortuitous timing
Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 1st 2021 at 8:34:39 AM
What a coincidence. Hap bday to Gaines.
Also, don’t a lot of the EC stories involve an Asshole Victim getting hit with Karma?
Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 1st 2021 at 8:42:22 AM
Lighty's the expert here and I'm inclined to follow his lead.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, Big Bad for Maristara?
The rest of the batch:
- Highlander: The Measure of a Man, by Nancy Holder: Niccolò Machiavelli is a ruthless Immortal who gives himself unique advantages in the Game by killing other pre-immortals to pretend he has given them their newfound lives. Using them as cheap Quickenings or pawns, Machiavelli murders rulers and popes, causes entire wars, and inevitably discards people when he's through with them. Seeking to cause a war between Venice and Turkey, Machiavelli abandons one pawn to be tortured to death; causes the death of Duncan's friend's son; and later returns in the modern day seeking a computer program that will allow him control of the world's computers, with the intent of shutting off even entire cities if it will get him what he want. Machiavelli murders his lover and co-conspirator, orders another pawn tortured before she is to be beheaded, and even tries to put Duncan in the position of needing to behead another young Immortal and causing a plane crash or letting his own head be taken.
- Cop Craft anime:
- Zelada is an extremist who uses acts of violence to incite hatred between humans and Semanians. Initially unseen, Zelada frequently uses the "latena" of fairies to kill others and enslave them as controlled corpses. Introduced posing as a subordinate of the smuggler Dennis Elbaji, Zelada demonstrates a prototype for a "fairy dust" bomb on two police officers. Confronted by San-Teresa Police Detectives Kei Matoba and Tilarna Exedilica—the former of whom recognizes Zelada for slaughtering his platoon when Kei was in the military—Zelada exploits their superior's xenophobia in order to escape to the roof of a skyscraper where he intends to amplify his bomb's blast radius. Seemingly dying by falling off the roof—and with his bomb having been defused—Zelada eventually reveals himself to still be alive, having arranged the assassination of two mayoral candidates in order to increase tensions between humans and Semanians. After capturing Kei and Tilarna, and killing a reporter who met up with them, Zelada claims to be acting in the best interest of the Semanians, but is called out for his xenophobia by Tilarna before Kei shows up to confront him.
- Dennis Elbaji is the head of a "fairy dust" manufacturing ring who hides behind his role as a nightclub owner, having abducted over a hundred fairies to manufacture his product for his own personal gain. Introduced having the sorcerer Zelada test a fairy dust bomb on police officers, Elbaji makes Zelada toy with the corpses before having one corpse shoot both. Confronted by Tilarna in his nightclub after harassing her, Elbaji tries to have her shot once he realizes she is on a rescue mission. Subsequently defeating her in a sword fight, Elbaji takes Tilarna prisoner, professing to worship money on the drive to his facility. Later setting his facility ablaze, Elbaji makes a callous quip about how much the fire will cost him when he encounters Tilarna again. Defeated in a final duel thanks to Kei's intervention, Elbaji defiantly curses Tilarna out.
- Crime Suspenstories #25's "Dog Food": Lester Hoag is the depraved head guard of a prison labor camp, who uses this position to indulge his cruel, sadistic tendencies. Hoag regularly subjects the inmates to physical and psychological torture, surrounding his courtyard with vicious guard dogs that Lester starves into a bloodthirsty craze. Hoag deliberately leaves the front gate unlocked so he can enjoy watching any prisoner trying to escape be torn to shreds. When one man is left barely alive after a mauling, Hoag splays his dying body out in the courtyard to break the prisoners' spirits. When he catches onto an inmate's plan to distract the dogs with meat and take revenge for his friend's death, Hoag sabotages his escape route, taking glee in the thought of the man being torn apart.
- Killer Kid (1967): Colonel Ramirez is the icy leader of the Mexican Army forces out to erase any trace of the rebels in his quest for the head El Santo. Starting the film with a mass execution of revolutionary sympathizers, Ramirez shows himself as willing to torture wounded prisoners before initiating another massacre once he takes over a pueblo and a threat to have everyone within murdered at the slightest trace of resistance. Willing to resort to any means to destroy the rebels, Ramirez even poisons the water supply of a fort to kill everyone within.
- Dragonvarld trilogy:
- Maristara, rogue dragon, takes over the kingdom of Seth while poisoning their minds against her own kind so she may have the humans slaughter any dragons who attempt to remove her. Perfecting the art of stealing bodies, Maristara leaves countless women in decades of agony as she steals their hearts to use their forms, intending on a massive war she may take advantage of, happily having massacres done in her name and causing a draconic civil war before trying to murder her own granddaughter to spite her nemesis Draconas.
- Grald, Maristara's partner in crime, is a brutish dragon who savors bloodshed and violence. Likewise stealing the bodies of men, Grald rapes the heroine Melisande to impregnate her with a son he can later use. Setting up his own kingdom and forcing women to bear his children, a process that is usually fatal, Grald makes them loyal to him while culling the weak before attempting to make Ven his new form while his son languishes in endless pain.
- CarnEvil: Professor Ludwig von Tökkentäkker is the leader of the titular CarnEvil, a carnival filled with monsters. When the unnamed Player Character summons his carnival, Tökkentäkker greets him and forces him and another girl named Betty to fight through the carnival's three main attractions. After the player survives the main attractions, Tökkentäkker greets him at the big top, and orders an army of surgeon clowns to cut out his brain and place it into the body of a gorilla. When the player successfully kills them, Tökkentäkker traps him in a cage and brings him to his airship. There, he and his army of skeletons try to kill the Player and Betty. The website reveals more of Tökkentäkker's crimes, such as his manipulation, lobotomization, and mutilation of two circus performers; and his desire to Take Over the World with an army of giant freaks.
Edited by ACW on Mar 1st 2021 at 11:50:00 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Huh. Apparently another Law & Order spin-off called Organized Crime is coming out. And bringing back Stabler.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Btw ACW I watched Tenet yesterday and Sator's exact line is "bargain with the devil", not "deal" just for the sake of an accurate quote and cuz I know you like full names his wife is 'Katherine "Kat" Barton'.
Goku Black
Law and order shall never die at this point.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
God I’ve missed Stabler on SVU. I’ve only occasionally watched the show in the years since. The first episode of Organized Crime is set to tie-in with the episode of SVU on the same date (the episode of SVU will air right before the first episode of OC): 4/1 (and that’s no joke haha).
@Scraggle Thanks. I’ll check the movie out sometime certainly.
After reading through the latest Judge Dredd comic miniseries from IDW, i think i got a candidate or two
What is the Work?
Judge Dredd: False Witness is the latest Judge Dredd comic mini-series from IDW. Like the usual pattern for most of IDW comic mini-series', the comic follows an original character, with Judge Dredd playing more of a supporting role. This time, the plot follows Mathias Lincoln, a former mutant from a Cursed Earth, who managed to get inside Mega-City One and live there, creating a life for himself as a deliverer of illegal materials to criminals. As he gets chased by Judge Dredd, while delivering his latest package, he discovers himself in the middle of the corrupt business the elites of Mega-City One .
My candidates are the people, who are most active in this corrupt business, with the first being - Dr. Galen Filth aka Pendleton Snipe.
Who is Pendleton Snipe?
Formerly Mathias' best friend from Cursed Earth, Snipe was part of the group of mutants, who ventured across Cursed Earth to get inside Mega-City One in search of a better life. Pretending to be dead and abandoning Mathias and his sister, getting inside Mega-City One on his own, where he was constantly harrassed and bullied for his status as a mutant outcast. Eventually getting a job as droid repairman at news studio, Snipe noticed that the news program suffered from decline of views. Approaching the heads of the studio, Snipe offered his own solution, instead of talking about good things happening, have the news talks solely about bad events and exaggerate them, which allowed him to talk and sleep his way into the high position in the news studio, able to influence it, Snipe get enough money for surgery that he needed.
Approaching an illegal surgeon, who changed people's apperances, he has her change his apperance (to the point of changing skin color) and took a new name, Dr. Galen Filth, after which he created his new program, "Filthy Language", where he mostly just talked how mutants and non-native citizens of Mega-City One, were the source of all problems and that they "invaded our home", causing a lot of riots, where various bigots attacked "non-natives", also shitting on Judges along the way. Spreading his hateful propaganda across the entire Mega City, causing more aggressive riots and attacks on Judges and "non-natives", Filth secretly hired Mathias to deliver him biological package, has his henchmen lie that it was aphrodosiac.
Greeting Mathias, when he delivered the package, Filth tried to offer him the position of a Judge and take a part in his unknown scheme, only for Mathias to decline. When Mathias rightfully guessed that the package he had delivered was not aphrodosiac, Filth revealed that it was a special acid, needed for his project, modified resyk chamber. Filth also revealed that he and his partners discovered that mutant children have immunity gene, that when extracted to normal humans, can extend their lives. Immediatly after he showcased his resyk chamber, revealing that he kidnapped countless mutant children and put them in resyk chamber to slowly dissolve, so their genes can be absorbed by Mega City's elites. Gleefully saying that Mathias can't reveal any of this to the Judges, since by delivering acid he has become an accessory to the crime, Filth mocked his grief, bragging that it is a worthless emotion.
As his propaganda causes an entire army of hateful bigots to gather up and threaten to attack mutant citizens, Mathias visited Noodles and revealed to her Filth's atrocity, making her mad with grief. As she tried to inform the Judges about this, their house was attacked by the bigots and Noodles got killed, leading to Mathias killing them and sending the message to Judges himself. This got Mathias' Filth's attention and he invaded his appartment and tried to kill him, only for the Judge Department's droid to arrive and break his neck and then blow up, which led to the events of the second half of the miniseries' as Mathias got framed for Filth's murder, with Mathias and Judges later on figuring out his true identity as Pendleton Snipe.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
While any care for his former best friend and his sister was clearly thrown away by Snipe, since he abandoned both of them and even tried to kill Mathias, not even making any contact with his sister (who became a Judge) and even start to spread propaganda program (that was 100% his own brainchild) that targeted his own people and his sister (since she was a Judge), not caring about them one bit about anyone else, his backstory gives me a little pause, since he was mocked and abused because of his mutant background, but still, the fact that he immediatly becomes the head of a bigoted program and has countless mutant children kidnapped to serve as a stuff for the rich to live longer. Also he wanted to monopolize this business, but it isn't clear how he wanted to do it.
All pages with him are linked in the EP, for anyone, who wants to check out and verify anything.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
The miniseries', like many others from IDW, is not connected to anything else contunity wise, standing out as its own thing, so i think he passes, considering that he is the one, who is responsible for the events of the series, has countless mutant children kidnapped to put them into resyk, so they could slowly dissolve and serve as a genes, that make rich live longer. Also his program causes several attacks from the population on mutants and Judges, so that serves as a bonus.
Final Verdict?
What do you think?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 1st 2021 at 8:20:36 PM
Goku Black
Snipe
Gotta love the tone of Dredd mixed with the thousands of continuities! Yes to another baddie from that dark franchise!
"The Juice is Loose."
Fair enough. You can sorta tell the woman in the wheelchair is not in a good position.
Edit: Fuck. How did this top the page.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 1st 2021 at 10:56:28 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.