During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'm not sure if it should go to Disney. If Disney created it, maybe.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsACW: I mean it was produced by Jetix Animation Concepts which was a joint venture between Jetix Europe N.V. and Walt Disney Television Animation. As well as airing on Took Disney/Jetix.
Edit: It's the same case as Get Ed. Which is on Disney.
Edited by Bullman on Dec 1st 2019 at 2:37:03 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadWitch's writeup, before i went to sleep:
The Alchemist's House: The nameless witch is an undead being, who is responsible for all horror in the game. Stealing dozens of souls of innocent people, the witch trapped them in dolls and then imprisoned, abused and experimented on them. Enslaving one man, the witch builds her prison upstairs of his house and ordered him to invite people to his home and then drug them with her potions, which either painfully killed them or horribly mutated them. Creating many abominations from the bodies of her victims, the witch tries to kill an orphan child, who managed to trick her servant and evade her monsters, to use him for her ritual to be "reborn again".
Late for Witch.
Sigh, I remember Toon Disney and Jetix. Good times.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Dec 1st 2019 at 12:21:47 PM
"No running in the halls!"People, I've noticed that Kenta Ayatsuri from Echoes needs a small rewrite, as I kinda forgot about one of his crimes.
Actually, I mentioned in the original entry that Kenta was introduced in the Alive!Yondaime verse by ripping off an Hyuga's eyes. Actually, he was introduced earlier in the same universe, but I didn't noticed it and forgot to read the author's note (which explained that it was actually Kenta). Now that I've noticed, I need to make a small correction.
He smiled, when the two dogs licked his hand. The huge black hounds looked at their master with absolute devotion in their yellow, twisted eyes. He loved these eyes. So pure, so perfect… if only humans could have them too.
"Good dogs," he whispered, caressing their belly. The beast barked happily, proud of their master's love. "I brought you a candy. Your favorite." He stared at the closed cell in front of him, and the dog followed his gaze.
They immediately noticed the little girl in a corner.
"Kin, say hello to my hounds," he told her softly. "They came to see you, so it is natural you should do the same. Didn't I teach you to be polite?"
"Master…" the girl moaned in pain, her face charred with bruises and burns. Her punishment. "I can't feel my hands…"
"It was to be expected. I cut them myself." It was the third time he did it this month. Really a bad month. Three failed soldiers was a bad result. Two were okay, one was expected, but three… "I regret having to do it, but it was for your own good. It was to teach you respect."
"I… sorry…" she moaned, her ravaged body hiding in the dark. The hounds were eyeing her silently, waiting for their master to open the door. "I… never… do… again…"
"Of course you won't." He sighed. "You showed such potential, Kin. When I saved your life in the streets, I thought you would make a good spy and killer. You didn't even blink when you stabbed Zaku, alongside all my students. You killed Dosu perfectly, as I told you to. It took me a whole week to find his corpse. But then… you disappointed me." He eyed her with disdain. "I just sold you to this brothel for a night. They paid me a good price to take your purity. It would have made you tougher. But you had to cry."
"Sorry…" Kin cried. "Sorry…"
"I hate when my weapons do this." He caressed his hounds' heads. "Do they cry? Of course not. They just obey. No question, no sentiment. They just ask for a payment. Why did you refuse to be one of my hounds? Why did you stay human?"
"Sorry…" Kin whined. "Sorry…"
"I apologize, Kin, but you brought it on yourself. It could have ended another way, but I have no use for people. I only need weapons." He opened the cell's door. "Hatake, Kakashi, your dinner."
Recognizing their names, the dogs silently entered the cell.
"SORRY!" Kin shouted. "SOR-"
Fangs bit her flesh.
In silence, he observed the spectacle and listened to the bloody opera. Kin's voice was high and melodious. She would have made a good kunoichi, hypnotizing men with songs and legs before strangling them. But she had failed.
It was still a mystery for him. What was wrong with spending a night with a man or woman? Some of his students, male and female, had even enjoyed the experience. The girls, less so, and more had cried, but it was still disappointing.
Kakashi never cried. Not him.
"I guess I will have to find another kunoichi," he wondered out loud, Kin screams beginning to be covered by sounds of chewing. "Maybe in Kiri? There are so many there…"
He narrowed his eyes, sensing a familiar presence. "What is it, Karin?"
The redhead medic-nin, one of his best successes, approached her master in silence. Her face was emotionless, her dress grey and very adjusted, her lens blue. Men found her beautiful and superb… but for him, she was plain, like everyone else.
"Master, I assassinated your target, as you wanted," she said, her voice cold and monotone. The teen stared at Kin's still living body with nothing but cold indifference. The conditioning had made her completely immune to compassion.
"Perfect," he said, barely listening. His hounds were hungry, Kin was dying. He couldn't care less. As always, he didn't feel the thing others called regret. Hell, he couldn't even feel at all.
… Except maybe the joy of a success, or seeing someone in pain. Those were always enjoyable experiences.
"Nothing else?" The screams began to weaken.
"Your agent in Konoha sent you a message." She gave him a white card. "He said it was important."
Channeling his chakra, the man began to read the letters appearing on it. His eyes narrowed. "Finally… I waited for so long, and they finally dropped their guard." Not bothering to look up at Karin, he began to give her orders. "Contact Kakuzu. Tell him Ayatsuri Kenta has a well-paid job for him, and bring him there. Oh, and go tell him to take that priest of Jashin… Hidan, I think his name was… with him. He will be needed."
He heard Karin nodding, and leaving. Looking at his hounds, he saw their hunger had been satisfied.
"I wonder if you will like your new candy," he told them. "Obito Hatake is supposed to be one tough boy… just like his father."
TL;DR : Kenta was introduced earlier than the Eye Scream and punishing Kin Tsuchi (described as a little girl) by cutting off her hands and having his dogs maul her to death? Why? Because she cried when he gave her to a brothel.
As such, here's the original entry :
- Kenta Ayatsuri is a jōnin of Konoha, a philanthropist, and founded an orphanage. However, Kenta turned the orphans into Tykebombs and prostitutes to fund his activities. Training Kamui, the Wave-Verse's Kakashi), Kenta turned him into another tyke-bomb. When Minato added Kamui to his own team, taking him away from Kenta, the latter contacted the enemy in order to sabotage Team Minato's mission to destroy the Kannabi Bridge, and to get rid of them, barring Kamui, leading to Obito's death. Fleeing Konoha after his crimes were discovered, he sent brainwashed children to massacre Konoha families, and, in the Wave-Verse, kidnaps a pregnant Rin. Killing the baby, Kenta tortured Rin to death and greeted Kamui with her corpse when he tried to rescue her. He also tried to recreate Kamui with other children, killing or wounding them in the process. In the Past Enemy Arc, Kenta is introduced by removing an Hyuuga's eyes. He attempted to kidnap Rin and Kakashi's child, succeeding with Rin. When his subordinate suggested to kill Kamui, Kenta killed him. When confronted by Kamui, he blamed everyone but himself for his crimes and revealed that he committed all of this to turn Kakashi into his "masterpiece", and so that he will be remembered. When Kamui replies that he will do everything to forget him, a spiteful Kenta attempts to kill him and Rin. Based on real-life sociopaths, Kenta was a monster in a human's skin.
And the rewrite :
- Kenta Ayatsuri is a jōnin of Konoha, a philanthropist, and founded an orphanage. However, Kenta turned the orphans into Tykebombs and prostitutes to fund his activities. Training Kamui, the Wave-Verse's Kakashi), Kenta turned him into another tyke-bomb. When Minato added Kamui to his own team, taking him away from Kenta, the latter contacted the enemy in order to sabotage Team Minato's mission to destroy the Kannabi Bridge, and to get rid of them, barring Kamui, leading to Obito's death. Fleeing Konoha after his crimes were discovered, he sent brainwashed children to massacre Konoha families, and, in the Wave-Verse, kidnaps a pregnant Rin. Killing the baby, Kenta tortured Rin to death and greeted Kamui with her corpse when he tried to rescue her. He also tried to recreate Kamui with other children, killing or wounding them in the process. In the Past Enemy Arc, Kenta is introduced horribly killing a little girl because she cried when he gave her to a brothel. He attempted to kidnap Rin and Kakashi's child, succeeding with Rin. When his subordinate suggested to kill Kamui, Kenta killed him. When confronted by Kamui, he blamed everyone but himself for his crimes and revealed that he committed all of this to turn Kakashi into his "masterpiece", and so that he will be remembered. When Kamui replies that he will do everything to forget him, a spiteful Kenta attempts to kill him and Rin.
Thoughts?
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Dec 1st 2019 at 9:38:10 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)to Torres, Witch and the killer. I remember that CSI episode to Trent
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 1st 2019 at 10:57:18 AM
Should that bit about the eyes being removed still be somewhere in the entry?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Draftsto Trent, Leonard and the Witch; to the Host.
I would question a certain bias on the who qualifies as a 40k Monster, and now I can justify why a few should be here, given how other works seem to have a lot but that is a topic for later
What is the Work?
Star Wars X-Wing: Rogue Leader
A 3 part mini series where Luke, Han, And Rogue Squadron take on Imperial Remnant Forces to rescue a friend.
Who is General Weir and what has he done?
"Welcome to my Empire. This is where you die, and where a new counter-Rebellion will be born."
An sadistic Imperial Storm Commando who rejected the outcome of the Battle of Endor, he launches his own counter-rebellion to create a new Empire. Introduced leading a terrorist attack on the civilian population of the undefended Coronet City as a demonstration of Imperial power and to punish the Corellian system for their perceived betrayal. He captures the hero pilot Ten Numb and proceeds to brutally torture and mutilate him to death while psychologically destroying him just for the crime of being an alien. While escaping from Rogue Squadron he sends out suicide drone fighters after a convoy of civilian ships to stall them.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Well you see his tragic backstory is that he is a loyal imperial soldier, who wants to instill fear and human supremacy throughout the galaxy, since he can no longer do so with the loss at Endor, which was 2 weeks ago, he makes up for attacking civilians in an indiscriminate retaliation for a Rebel Victory.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
"Do not hope for much in your quest. The Imperial leader, this General Weir, is quite sadistic. If your friend still lives, he's surely wishing for death by now." - Lady Leyli
He is the only villain there, and he brings the fear and fury of the Empire, specifically targeting aliens not that humans are exempt from his wrath.
The Star Wars Wiki on him
The comic itself in an omnibus, its short but volume 1 mixes in the sequel series
Final Verdict?
Guilty of Not Guilty.
Abstain on the General, idk if he meets the Star Wars heinous standard
Listen to my podcastSee the above is my issue where the work is big I mean Criminal Minds has at least 2 every season and a half dozen that would qualify if not for the standard they set.
I thought that a franchise like star wars looks at the series individually seeing how Palpatine and Tarkin get multiple separate entries, same with Cobra Commander from GI Joe.
Wow things changed for my example but for 40k asides from the main page and I need to fix my Von Strabb entry which will not count towards my goal
From Gaunt's Ghosts Series we "had" Cuu and Wolin unless they need to be resubmitted, I know Cuu is still on the main page but their entries were deleted from YMMV
The Dawn of War franchise at lest the first 2 games had Kyras [2]
Abstain on Weir.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadto Weir, he's a pretty standard Imperial fanatic. Not really bad enough in my opinion, especially for the Legends continuity.
No to Weir.
@ ACW I... Don't think so. What he did to Kin is significantly more depraved and Eye Screams are nothing much in Naruto.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)Oh, Eye Scream is fairly common? Even in canon? Huh. Please add the rewrite to the Drafts,
As for 40k: Cuu WAS cut from the main page. I mean, it is a fairly big franchise, but it's still one where mass murder of billions is common that a single rape or 2 isn't enough. Hell, even though he passed, I think I myself abstained on von Strab, and even if he DOES count, he's on the low end of the scale, despite millions of deaths. At the high end, Abaddon and Bile have, what, billions if not trillions of deaths to their name?
Edited by ACW on Dec 1st 2019 at 5:12:46 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsPalp having multiple entries is a special case to keep him from having one entry the size of a small novel. The Cobra Commander entries are from different GI Joe continuities, so they only have to tangentially compete with each other. All WH 40 K entries have to be compared with each other directly, and that combined with the tone is why we have so few keepers
Edited by Libraryseraph on Dec 1st 2019 at 5:14:32 AM
Listen to my podcastto nameless undead witch.
Serously, here's Palpatine's original entry from way back when (Tarkin's wasn't too much better):
- Throughout the films and the Expanded Universe (both canon and Legends), we find out he is behind almost all the bad things that happen. Darth Plagueis, which takes place before the films, shows the true magnificence of his manipulations. It is revealed he killed his own parents and siblings, and is incapable of feeling regret when committing heinous actions and various misdemeanors—such as when he ended up crashing his landspeeder and killing two people without any remorse on his part, and, in fact, was extremely glad that he got away with breaking the law and insensitively decided to reveal that instant that he wants to become a racer. In addition, when Darth Tenebrous, a Sith Lord, foresaw Palpatine's murder of Plagueis upon his death and possession of Plagueis after the latter betrayed him, he was noticeably horrified at not only Plagueis's murder at the hands of Palpatine, but at how evil Palpatine is, implying that Palpatine was so evil, that even the Sith, who are infamous for committing various crimes with The Dark Side, were repulsed by him. As Senator, he engineered the Trade Federation's invasion and blockade of his own home planet (using the sympathy generated to become Supreme Chancellor and eventually Emperor), and by Episode II started the Clone Wars and used the start of the war to gain considerable emergency powers. He gets worse throughout the Clone Wars, starting with planning on performing experiments and ''possibly lethal surgery'' on infants that he ordered Cad Bane to capture for him, while in a red-tinted laboratory that even the most mad Mad Scientist would be afraid to work in, over a lava lake on Mustafar. Later when he, as Darth Sidious, faces his old apprentice, Darth Maul, he takes great delight in murdering his brother right in front of him, and afterwards, sadistically tortures him with Force lightning, while hinting at a Fate Worse than Death for Maul. In the Lost Missions (season 6), he has Fives drugged and rendered insane in order to prevent him from telling the truth about Order 66 which led to the latter's death. At the end of the war, he successfully turns Anakin to the Dark Side by exploiting his fear about Padme's death, and afterwards nearly annihilated the Jedi Order including the children by means of the aforementioned Order 66: Palpatine branded the Jedi as traitors to the Republic and had them killed by the clones; almost all died. He killed and disposed his loyal Separatist allies (such as Dooku) when he had no use for them anymore and made the Republic into a fascist dictatorship ruling by fear and using planet-destroying superweapons like the Death Star against anything with the idea of dissenting. Once he became Emperor, he was known to have personally destroyed entire populations and single-handedly razed entire cities that were suspected to conspire against him. He only has loyalty to himself—it is implied in Episode VI that he treated Darth Vader as expandable when Luke defeated him and wanted to make Luke his apprentice instead while leaving Vader to die. When Luke refuses, Palpatine then gleefully blasts him with Force lightning and would have killed him if not for Vader's redemption. In Dark Empire, which takes place after ...Jedi, Palpatine’s cloning attempts lead to his vilest actions yet, not only by converting Luke to the dark side but also causing havoc through the use of devastating force storms and the planet-destroying Galaxy Gun. When his last clone starts to decay, he tried to possess baby Anakin Solo and was only stopped by another Jedi's intervention that led to his final death. It has been implied that he wanted to prevent the invasion of the Vong, but he most likely viewed the Vong as an enemy not because they threaten the Galaxy at large, but rather because he wants to protect his own power from potential enemies, and possibly conquer their galaxy once he's had the upper hand.
Okay so for 40k just selfish bastards who killed at least in the millions with specific instances of evil.
Well that...I have only one that fits. Need time to reread so I make no mistakes.
Anyway re-evaluation time. This was on the ymmv page back in 2013 for being a stub. So here's an ep
- Complete Monster: The Marquis who marries women and then kills them for sexual satisfaction
Now he actually does count. So here it is. An adaptation of bluebeard himself
Whats the work?
The Bloody Chamber is a short story anthology by Angela Carter based around the gothic retelling of old fairy tales.
W Ho is The Marquis
A charming man who the heroine falls heads over heels with. He is a widower whose three previous wives died under tragic accidents (sure. Let's go with that). He charms her and they marry and after she loses her virginity to him. He gives her his key to a room she must not go into.
Eventually her curiosity takes over and she discovers his uh room... You see he has a torture chamber in his basment which is where the key leads Tom their are his three wives. His first wife was on a torture rack where he tortured her for his own sexual satiification before strangling her to death. He then embalmed the body so he can uh watch it's lifelessness. Wife number two was tortured to death on a wheel before he took her skull and turned into an ornament. Isolated bride who was just killed a week ago, was put through an iron maiden. So yeah....
Anyway she is able to send a message to her mother who was once a great hero to come save her using het piano instructed . Marquis finds out, and decided he's going to kill them both. But she is going to be the "exquisite" and slow torture while he he'll just knock him off more faster. Hes sent the servants away so he can have time alone here. Anyway before hes about to kill her, her mother who had received the message and raced here ( She had defeated pirates, nursed back to health a plague ravaged village, and singelhandedly shot and killed a maneating tiger, all before she was even 18) and come to save her. Shooting the Marquis right in the head, killing him instantly
Nah he's just a sick perv who likes torturing people to death
Other redeeming qualities
Not that I'm aware off.
The heroine does speculate that he maybe lonely but that's undone by the reveal that was an act to let her guard down. Even if it were true he only is lonely since HE kills his own brides.
Hes a fairly charming even kindly seeming dude but a monster is who he is.
Also no real love for his servants. He treats them okay but he never shows them affection. Yes more ambivalent to them then anything. Not really caring.
Heinous standard ?
Not that high honestly . Most of the stories don't actually have villains. The beauty and the best ones don't have anyone remotely evil(Their are only like 2 adaptations of it I can think of with cm examples) and puss in boots is a comedy. Marquis though is the only torturer and well his body count isn't particularly high (3 with. 2 attempted). He makes up for it in sheer horror and how long and painful he makes it. For a fairy tail short story badguy. Hes pretty bad.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Yes to the Marquis.
I think you've gotten two approved, actually; that version of Manfred Von Karma and Leonard Phillips.
Edited by falcontalons on Dec 1st 2019 at 2:41:56 AM
to the marquise
Listen to my podcast
@acw: For koss. Change while himself raping and killing her cousin Amy and make it while raping and killing her cousin Amy himself.
Flows better.
Phillips and Witch
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."