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NOTE: The following OP was written by nw09. Please give credit to them.


Sturgeon's Law is defined as "90% of anything is bad". It's not In-Universe Examples Only, and is therefore used as an Audience Reaction. Despite this, it's not labeled as YMMV, and is wicked around the site as if it were an objective statement. This leads to tropers complaining. According to the wick check, most examples are like this.

Solution: Probably should be made Flame Bait.

Wick check:

Sturgeon's Law is linked to around the wiki as it were an objective fact, despite clearly being subjective.

50/50

    Subjective statement pretending to be objective 43/ 50 

    In-universe examples 7/ 50 
Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Party Members

Pathfinder: Kingmaker Party Members

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 6th 2022 at 11:16:29 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#26: Oct 16th 2022 at 2:58:46 PM

[up]I went ahead and added it.

Edit: Added another option for whether to allow on-page examples if we limit it to in-universe examples. Maybe that could have been one option, but since Pet-Peeve Trope handled the two separately, I erred on the side of caution with this.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 16th 2022 at 5:01:34 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
crazysamaritan MOD NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#28: Oct 19th 2022 at 6:36:55 AM

Both "Make IUEO" and "Allow on-page examples" have more than a 9:1 consensus. Calling the crowner. The trope will not become YMMV or Flame Bait, as those options were less than 1:1.

Please begin removing out-of-universe references and adding examples to the trope page.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#29: Oct 19th 2022 at 6:37:51 AM

Are we agreed to remove the wicks from the Fanfic recommendations template?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#30: Oct 19th 2022 at 6:42:50 AM

I'm for it, for the record, though don't think there's been any feedback on that topic yet.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#31: Oct 19th 2022 at 6:53:48 AM

I added a notice to the discussion page. I saw that this was already added to the IUEO index and removed from the NOPE index, so that part's out of the way.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#32: Oct 19th 2022 at 6:54:30 AM

Will create Sandbox.Sturgeons Wick Cleaning to keep track of cleared namespaces.

EDIT: And created.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Oct 19th 2022 at 9:55:59 AM

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#33: Oct 19th 2022 at 6:58:49 AM

  • 1 for removing this page from the fanfic rec template. It's just a Take That! at this family of works.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#34: Oct 19th 2022 at 7:04:21 AM

[up]I agree. I feel like this being IUEO means it already has no business being there, or at least no longer does.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 19th 2022 at 9:04:49 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#35: Oct 19th 2022 at 9:54:18 AM

Agreed with removing it from the template.

ETA: Went ahead and removed the DO banner from the description and added the Pathfinder: Kingmaker example since I was familiar with it.

Edited by StarSword on Oct 19th 2022 at 1:06:31 PM

Lapsem Since: Aug, 2020
#36: Oct 19th 2022 at 10:33:45 AM

Does this mean that Sturgeon's Law may no longer be linked to Fanfic Recommendations pages, in the format of "Proof that the remaining 10% is worth ______ for"?

Check out my Pantheon Search Database prototype!
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#37: Oct 19th 2022 at 10:37:07 AM

Yeah I think the first line Template Page For New Fandom Recommendations can go away and all FR/ wicks with it.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Lapsem Since: Aug, 2020
#38: Oct 19th 2022 at 10:46:36 AM

[up] Shame, that. I always liked seeing the different variations of the phrase.

Check out my Pantheon Search Database prototype!
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#39: Oct 19th 2022 at 10:51:14 AM

Optionally we can just remove the pothole, though I question if the jokes would make sense without it.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#40: Oct 19th 2022 at 10:52:54 AM

I forgot that Template Page For New Fandom Recommendations was locked. I removed the wick (plus the rest of the line).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 19th 2022 at 12:53:34 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#41: Oct 20th 2022 at 8:40:42 AM

I'm going through the work namespaces now and copying keepable examples to a doc so I can add them all at once.

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#42: Oct 20th 2022 at 8:46:57 AM

Sounds good.

I'll handle the Fanfic Rec wicks. I'm sure all will need to be nuked at this rate.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#43: Oct 20th 2022 at 9:57:59 AM

One interesting pattern I've found: in video game example lists, it's frequently misused for Vendor Trash.

[down]Whoops, my bad!

Edited by StarSword on Oct 20th 2022 at 1:35:29 PM

prettycoolguy Since: Nov, 2010
#44: Oct 20th 2022 at 10:31:13 AM

I should probably point out that Vendor Trash has been split into the trope Shop Fodder for items that serve no literal purpose and the YMMV item Better Off Sold, where an item does have a purpose but no one wants to keep it.

Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#45: Oct 20th 2022 at 12:49:18 PM

Welp, did a count for the number of Fanfic Recs pages with the wick. We started with more than 1600 in that namespace alone. So, it's almost 3/4 of the entire list.

So, I'll focus on one-offs for now. Maybe I'll squeeze in some removals from that namespace every so often.

Edited by Berrenta on Oct 20th 2022 at 6:00:34 AM

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#46: Oct 21st 2022 at 7:21:37 AM

I think I've got nearly all of the usable on-page crosswicks at this point. Pretty substantial list, even if half of it is Internet critics.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#47: Oct 21st 2022 at 10:39:29 AM

[up]Internet critics also ended up being a major source of on-page examples when TRS made Pet-Peeve Trope IUEO and removed its No On-Page Examples status so in-universe examples could be listed.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 21st 2022 at 12:40:25 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#48: Oct 25th 2022 at 7:25:27 AM

All right, so I'm thinking at this point about what to do with the page description. It's pretty long and I think quite a bit of it can be cut: we really just need the part about Sturgeon's revelation and then an explanation of how it's applied in fiction.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#49: Dec 6th 2022 at 8:34:04 PM

Since a lot of namespaces have already been taken care of according to the wick-cleaning sandbox, I decided to work on this since I'm done with my previous dewicking project, and Main/ is now dewicked.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#50: Dec 6th 2022 at 10:01:07 PM

Done here, so locking up.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
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Trope Repair Shop: Sturgeon's Law
16th Oct '22 9:53:07 AM

Crown Description:

Sturgeons Law is frequently used as a Pothole Magnet. What should be done with it?

Total posts: 50
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