Shout Out Cleanup

I think Mythology Gag has been brought up once or twice as well. I think a better name would be "Shout-Out Tropes Cleanup Thread".

Edited by RainbowPumpqueen on Jul 21st 2021 at 11:49:31 PM

Yeah, when I made this the only trope being discussed was Shout-Out so I wasn't thinking of the other tropes with similar issues.

I cut all three of the LuPat entries I mentioned.

Found on ShoutOut.Halo.

Last bullet is the issue. How is the Flood an example of Xenomorph Xerox? What about them makes you think of the Xenomorphs from Alien when you look at anything Flood? Could you not explain it yourself?

I looked at the history. Originally, this example did try to provide context.

** Most obviously, it's hard to look at anything Flood related and not think of the Xenomorphs. Both have small, roughly chicken-sized larval forms (Flood infection forms and face-huggers respectively) who scurry around looking for a host to jump and attach themselves to. Both burrow into said hosts and essentially puppet them, transforming the host into various forms of beasts that are distinct from each other but all follow the same general design trend (note the various Flood infection forms whether they be human, Brute, Grunt, etc. and compare them to the various forms of Xenomorph). Both are hive-based and don't seem to be individually sapient. Both rely on numbers and their superhuman physiology to carry them in battle. And both are found as a few small samples on an abandoned craft, remnants of an infestation that wiped out an entire advanced Precursor race, only to get brought back into being unwittingly by humans, allowing them to spread rapidly from there.

It did a fair job of comparing the Flood to the Xenomorphs to show how they were similar, though it did have room for improvement. Instead, the troper just deleted the context and replaced it with a link to the Xenomorph Xerox page.

Okay, then. Here's the relevant entry on Xenomorph Xerox that we're supposed to look to for context.

I think I'll revert the Shout-Out example, make whatever improvements it needed, and then use it to replace the example on Xenomorph Xerox.

Entries are not supposed to direct the reader to other entries for context.

This one relates to Actor Allusion instead, but it's fine to discuss here I suppose.

Also, dang it's really forced. Anyway, from Juno

• Actor Allusion: This ain't the first time Page's character wore a red hoodie. — Because obviously no other movies have red hoods, yes?

Feels almost like the troper thought Actor Allusion is just "this character has something in common with another character their actor played in a different franchise". Easy cut.

I have some doubts about some of the entries on Rocko's Modern Life: Static Cling:

• Shout-Out:
  • Several references to Joe Murray's second animated series, Camp Lazlo, can be spotted in the special: Not familiar enough with Lazlo to comment on most of these. I think there's another trope for this — does Company Cross References fit?
    • In the first shot of modern day O-Town, Scoutmaster Lumpus can be seen sunbathing behind the Bigheads' house.
    • Near the end of Ed's little musical number early in the special, he swats a bird that bears a striking resemblance to Edward Platypus.
    • During Rocko, Heffer and Filburt's global search, they ask a monkey, a rhino, and an elephant in India and ask people water skiing at Leaky Lake.
  • The first shot parodies the "Also sprach Zarathustra" sequence from 2001: A Space Odyssey. Keep, it has the music and it's a pretty clear reference to me.
  • A story crawl is shown in the style of Star Wars. Keep, it's a pretty clear reference.
  • A few references to other Nickelodeon shows are made: Wouldn't these be Company Cross References?
    • Rocko watches The Fatheads on an orange-colored VHS tape, which is what old Nickelodeon tapes looked like back in the 90's.
    • A joke is made about the executive bathroom being a very good place compared to the other restroom in Ed's workplace, so much that the toilet itself is made of gold. This is a reference to a very early episode of Nickelodeon's first hit series You Can't Do That on Television called "Executive Washrooms", in which an executive washroom was treated as a prized place. Is this joke exclusive to YCDTOT?
    • The Fatheads ice cream not looking like the character is a reference to memes about how the popsicles for SpongeBob SquarePants often look nothing like how they are supposed to, due to cheap production. I know Spongebob is the most common example of the meme but other character popsicles have gotten this treatment too, like Bubbles and Spider-Man, which was even referenced in a movie.
    • At one point, Heffer imagines a fountain filled with orange soda. I know that drink is associated with the show but the scene has no connections to Kel's Catchphrase otherwise.

Bringing up this one from The Wish List, since it's listed as only a possible Shout Out.

• Shout-Out: A possible one when describing Belch using up Franco's "life". "He was just a ghost in a shell."

The Three Little Pigs haves Shout-Out examples that are references to the short in other media.

Move them to Referenced by... on the Trivia page.

Guess what? I just did that!

Cut it, it's an arguable example.

Not to mention that "ghost in the shell" is an actual term.

Found this on Imaginary Mary:

• Actor Allusion: This isn't the first time Jenna Elfman has interacted with an animated character. In fact, Jenna Elfman herself stated that being in 'Looney Tunes: Back in Action' helped in her being cast.

That's 100% not Actor Allusion, just a funny coincidence. It's misplaced as well. Cut away.

Edited by jandn2014 on Aug 17th 2021 at 7:22:33 AM

This is in the Bioshock Infinite examples here:

• On the beach, when Elizabeth runs off, she runs off and starts dancing to old-timey music with a group of people. What other series had a girl with phenomenal powers experimented on by an evil government entity, be rescued, have a thing for dresses and leather boots, and having been planned to be used as a weapon, as well as do that? Right. Firefly, with River Tam doing all of that. Bonus points: it's a family member who rescues her in both situations.

This immediately feels off, it's doing both the rhetorical answer shtick and feels both flimsy and forced. Cut?

From My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic S3 E13 "Magical Mystery Cure":

• Shout-Out:
  • See Stealth Pun below. Cut, something like this isn't allowed in examples, and none of the Pun examples on the page would fit here either.
  • To The Beatles — Magical Mystery Tour. Keep, it's a clear reference.
  • "Morning in Ponyville" is reminiscent of "Good Morning Baltimore" from Hairspray, "Belle" from Beauty and the Beast, and "Oh, What a Beautiful Mornin'" from Oklahoma!. This is a little shaky, but I do think the sequence is a nod to that kind of "good morning" song you see in musicals. Keep or cut?
  • As part of her comedic attempts, Fluttershy wears Groucho glasses. Keep, self-explanatory.
  • Spike momentarily entertains the crowd at Sugarcube Corner with some "Gangnam Style" hopping. Possible, the dance does look similar and the Lead Time checks out. That said Spike's hands don't seem to be in the right pose, though that could just be a quirk of the Flash models used.
  • Twilight's speech at the end after she is introduced as a princess is reminiscent of Lou Gehrig's 1939 speech at Yankee Stadium:
    Twilight: Today I consider myself to be the luckiest pony in Equestria. Keep, again the reference is clear and specific.
  • The ending, in which the view of Canterlot zooms out with Alicorn Twilight flying at the camera is highly reminiscent of the ending scene from The Matrix. In the same vein, tones of The Architect's scene from The Matrix Reloaded are present when Celestia is showing Twilight her past accomplishments. The first part sounds likely, but if the second just has shades of that scene I don't think it counts. The tone of The Architect's scene is much darker and stranger than that of the MLP scene, making the reveals unnerving instead of a hopeful and exciting new destiny.
  • Star Swirl the Bearded's unfinished spell is an indirect reference to Fermat's Last Theorem. Both Star Swirl and Fermat left behind a piece of work that was not completed until long after their deaths. Possible, it seems too specific yet the mention of "indirect" seems to put this in doubt. Keep or cut?
  • The scene between Celestia and Twilight on the astral plane reminds one of Sakura's scene with the spirit of Clow Reed upon fulfilling her own destiny. This one rings more of Fan Myopia to me, picking up on vague similarities between scenes.
  • Twilight's ascension uses the same sequence as becoming an archmage in Mage: The Awakening's "Imperial Mysteries" supplement, which was published in January 2012 (ten months before the third season of Friendship is Magic began to air): An unusual spell that surpasses Twilight's current understanding is cast that uses unusual, unique ingredients which other spells do not require; the spell changes the entire world as a side-effect; when understanding is achieved, Twilight disappears from the physical plane in a flash of her cutie mark / her nimbus (in Mage's terms); and she then travels through a gallery of her own achievements / her Golden Road before returning, now in an ascended state. With the amount of justification and explanation it has to make (the bit about it releasing 10 months before Season 3 seems to be trying to answer any possible questions about Animation Lead Time making it not work) I'm not sure if this really counts. Cut?

Edited by harryhenry on Aug 19th 2021 at 6:45:30 AM

I'm not familiar with either work, but if there's one thing I've noticed, it's that two works having similar parallels in their premises rarely qualifies as a Shout-Out, unless the earlier work is so iconic that the later work is basically a Whole-Plot Reference. Should probably add a note to the Shout-Out page or the Square Peg, Round Trope page explaining that. The overly rhetorical question-y style of the entry also seems pretty questionable.

In order:

• Cut, I believe examples like these aren't allowed.
• "Beatles": Keep
• "Morning In Ponyville":I would think it's just a common style of introductory song, not necessarily a reference to a specific instance in another work, unless there are undeniable parallels between said scenes and this scene. Leaning towards cut.
• "Groucho": Keep
• "Gangnam Style": That was actually my first thought too, Animation Lead Time probably checks out considering that small details like this are pretty easy to add in-post. Not definitive, but seems reasonable enough to keep.
• "Lou Gehrig": While a single line usually isn't enough to qualify a Shout-Out, if the speech is iconic enough that the writers can reasonably be assumed to be familiar with it, it might be an example. You seem pretty confident about this one, so probably keep.
• "Matrix": Not sure on both accounts. I don't remember much from the Matrix, so I can't comment on how similar these scenes are to the one in MMC.
• "Fermat": Sounds too generic, cut.
• "Sakura": I'm not sure how familiar the showrunners would be with Cardcaptor Sakura (the work page calls itself "incredibly iconic" though that could also just be gushing), but I say cut due to Fan Myopia, especially for the use of "reminds one", and since the entry doesn't specify how they're similar.
• "Mage": Similar premises, probably Fan Myopia. I say cut.

Side note: This sounds like a potential missing musical number trope. Do We Have This?

There are similar tropes, like Setting Introduction Song or a Welcoming Song, but nothing that exactly matches the trope. There might be enough examples justifying it, but we'll see.

Thanks for your input, I'll use that as help for what to delete or not on that page.

Maybe something like "Beautiful Day Song"?

Edited by PacificGreen on Aug 27th 2021 at 6:52:29 AM

Bringing up these from Manifest, since the first one is sure whether it's intentional or not, and I'm not sure whether the premise for the second one is unique enough to be a deliberate reference.

• Shout-Out: Probably unintentional, but the living stone angel in "Unclaimed Baggage" resembles a Weeping Angel.
  • The whole premise of a plane disappearing is similar to Lost.

Cut the second, a plane disappearing is way too common in fiction to be specifically a Lost reference.

On ShoutOut.Neopets:

• The description for "The Long Winter: An Epic" says: "Cant keep calm, winter is coming."