Unreleased Work Page Cleanup (Speculation, Spoilers, ZCE etc.)

That's... really stretching. A trailer can have tropes in it. If you point me to a trailer with a shot of three characters doing the Monkey Morality Pose, then maybe that trope will make it to the final work and maybe it won't, but we can at least write, "the trailer contains this trope" and be accurate.

If a creator says, "I like the Monkey Morality Pose and I plan to use it in my next work," then sure, that's marketing, but nobody's actually done the Monkey Morality Pose. The trope hasn't actually happened. We trope things that have happened. Not things that may happen. It's either an example, or it's speculation. It can't be both.

The only trope^note technically a Trivia item if you want to get pedantic about it that Word of God is an example of is Word of God, unless it's also an example of a Sub-Trope like Lying Creator.

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 12th 2019 at 12:38:33 PM

Should pre-release works be subject to the "three tropes" rule at all?

By their very nature, pre-release works are hard to find examples for, so people are creating shoehorned third tropes so that the page can exist.

Ok then I suppose The Suicide Squad can also go to cutville....

• Aborted Arc: As this is a relaunch that abandons most of the original's concepts, most of the plot threads created by that movie are this here.
• Changing of the Guard: While some characters are said to return from the 2016 movie, most of them don't and are replaced with newcomers.
• Gender Flip: Ratcatcher, traditionally a male, will be female in this continuity.
• Parental Substitute: It's said that Deadshot will take the role of a surrogate father to Ratcatcher.
• Recycled Title: The only thing separating this movie's title from the 2016 one is the use of "The" in the name.
• Soft Reboot: Basically an in-continuity reboot of the Suicide Squad with a story that's not beholden to the original, and a mostly new cast.
• Spiritual Successor: Described as one of Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy movies, which is funny after the first was often compared to the original.

With the exception of Gender Flip and Recycled Title and maybe Soft Reboot, it's speculation or words from creators.

If there's so little publicly-available information that we can't come up with three solid examples, it's probably too early for it to have a page.

I found another one Series.The Witcher 2020. The only footage we have so far is... this.

• Hunter of Monsters: Geralt's role as the titular Witcher is to slay beasts.
• Power Trio: The main trio of Geralt, Ciri and Yennefer, as always, is the main driving force of the story.
• Truer to the Text: Aims to be a proper adaptation of the Witcher mythos, unlike the other non-game adaptations.

Power Trio and Truer to the Text might be speculative.

I've had to get Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Trailer zapped off Avengers: Endgame for the third time due to misuse, as being absent in one trailer but appearing in other promotional material does not count as the trope.

• Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Trailer:
  • Captain Marvel was deliberately left out of the trailers and TV spots for this film until after the her first movie premiered, presumably to avoid distracting audiences from her debut. She was first officially advertised as being in Endgame with The Stinger for her first solo film, which featured one of her first scenes in Endgame, and appears at the end of the second trailer.
  • The Hulk is noticeably absent from a good chunk of the promotional material, with only a single concept art showing him in the movie so far. Hell, Bruce Banner even replaces him on the official poster mentioned above.
  • Thanos is completely absent from the second trailer, without even so much as a mention of his name.
  • Okoye is featured on the poster, but the second trailer only shows her in a brief flashback.

I've left an edit note on the top of the page in the meantime.

Edited by Albert3105 on Mar 15th 2019 at 10:49:21 AM

Yeesh. That page is a mess of speculation, examples that belong under other films (mostly Infinity War, plus a couple that refer to the post-credits scene of Captain Marvel), and general crapitude. I've given it a thorough cleaning.

I think The Bus Came Back (since Ant-Man and Hawkeye appeared in a trailer for Endgame but not in Avengers: Infinity War) may be restorable.

Edited by Albert3105 on Mar 15th 2019 at 2:57:15 AM

Amphibia was brought up a while ago, but there's one entry on its YMMV page I think is misuse. Friendly Fandoms is listed on the page, despite the fact that it's not released yet, and therefore can't really have "fans", unless we count those excited for the premiere as fans.

I also think the Tear Jerker entry is pretty weak (though that may be because I'm an anime fan, and Trapped in Another World (AKA Isekai) plots are dime a dozen these days).

There's nothing to say an unreleased work can't have fans.

So, a page has been made for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3. Of course, right now all we have to go on is that James Gunn is returning to direct, as we don't have a trailer, release date, or even basic synopsis. Most of the page is dedicated to discussing the period where Gunn was fired due to some unfortunate tweets he made years ago before being brought back. So, the entries themselves are pretty bare bones, with only two on the main page.

Breaking the Fellowship is pretty speculative, as we don't know how this trope will come into play in the final film. Grand Finale is probably the only one to count going by Gunn's comments, but right now it's mostly a Zero-Context Example. There's more valid entries on the Trivia and YMMV pages, but the main page is pretty sparse.

Any thoughts on how to proceed? I'm not sure what the exact procedure is around here.

I'm in favor of cutting it.

I added this film among several other works in Sandbox.Future Works that need examination. Let say there's a lot of work but we might start with some of the most egregious cases from works that have no trailers and little information like Guardians of the Galaxy 3 or Bond 25 (that doesn't even have a definitive title)

Seconding the motion to cut GotG 3 and Bond 25, and putting them on the cutlist.

Why does the upcoming 7th season of Star Wars: The Clone Wars have its own page? It's the same show.

Edited by Primis on Mar 16th 2019 at 12:04:38 PM

Heavily support cutting both Bond 25 and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, since nothing of them as works has been released yet (in fact, neither of them have any footage at all filmed for them in the first place).

Edited by Albert3105 on Mar 16th 2019 at 1:31:05 AM

Bringing up Morbius 2020 as the film doesn't have a trailer yet, and as the page itself admits - the film doesn't have any plot details released.

It's got three tropes, but the first I'm not sure is being used correctly, the second is a Zero-Context Example and the third is speculative.

Yandere Simulator has lot of "not yet in the game" and "not yet confirmed"s. It looks like the page's editors are closely following the game's development and are adding tropes as soon as the developer so much as hints that something might be in the final game.

They haven't even finished casting. Cut.

That's a sticky one. There's a whole "Tropes For the Final Game" folder that, as currently categorized, is speculation— the final game hasn't been released yet and any number of things could have changed if/when they slap a "1.0" on it— but a lot of what's in there probably does apply to various preview builds that have been released to the public.

I'd suggest moving the "Tropes For the Final Game" folder into a Sandbox and dropping a note in the edit reason and on the Discussion page directing people here to help sort through it for examples that might be rehabilitated.

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 16th 2019 at 3:29:52 AM

Nevermind. There was an ATT thread reporting a lot of speculation and gushing in YMMV.Kirby Star Allies, but I looked closer and realized this wasn't an unreleased work, it came out last year.

If anyone wants to chime in regardless, here's the ATT thread.

Edited by sgamer82 on Mar 17th 2019 at 8:48:42 AM

The game itself came out last year, but three free DLC packs were released over the course of the year, including one fairly close to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's release near the end of the year. Any speculation could have been between the game's main release and the DLC releases; this would mean it just hasn't been removed and/or corrected.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 17th 2019 at 1:50:50 PM

Okay now that Bond 25 and GOTG 3 are gone, I'm going to nominate two other upcoming works with little to no information for the cut list.

Series.Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019 is about an upcoming crossover in the Arrowverse that won't air until late this year. As the page itself says "details aren't known beyond the title and basic premise".

Now the tropes:

• Cosmic Retcon: From the very first episode of The Flash, it's been established that a Red Skies Crisis will happen on April 25th, 2024 — a fact which has remained consistent over multiple changes to the timeline, even without Barry's presence. The fact the crisis has been moved up by five years indicates that something extremely important will happen (or has happened, if one takes Oliver's deal with the Monitor into account) to change an event that has previously been impervious to being rewritten. Borders on speculation. It's possible that the writers just pulled a mere retcon (which wouldn't be the first time).
• End of an Age: Arrow will have concluded its final season just before this crossover airs. This arguably concerns more Arrow's finale that this arc.
• Sequel: To 2018's Elseworlds. It's true but ZCE.
• Tonight, Someone Dies: It is an adaptation of "Crisis on Infinite Earths'' all. ZCE and Pure speculation. We don't know if a major character will die. The creators haven't advertized that someone would die.
• Wham Episode: Considering Arrow is ending just before this airs, it means some big changes are coming to the Arrowverse. Speculation. It's possible that big changes are coming but it's also possible that the crossover will end with everything going back to normal as far as we know.

Ah and the All There Is To Know About The Crying Game and Reality Subtext examples on the YMMV page are also speculative.

The other is VideoGame.Metroid Prime 4. Nintendo has only revealed its title and confirmed that Retro Studio would return to lead the project and that's literally it.

It's even possible that the current title isn't definitive as Metroid Prime 2: Echoes and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption have subtitles.

The tropes:

• Artifact Title: The titular "Metroid Prime", which later became "Dark Samus", was Killed Off for Real in Metroid Prime 3 and won't be returning. In fairness, this IS a logical conclusion... However, it's also possible that the game will subvert the trope. Perhaps Dark Samus is Not Quite Dead (Joker Immunity is firm with a certain villain after all) or there's a second Metroid Prime or anything else.
• Trilogy Creep: Prime 3 was advertised as the finale chapter of the Prime series upon its release. With that in mind, the sub-series already had two Spin Offs in Hunters and Pinball during the original trilogy, with Federation Force being released years later. In addition, both Prime 3 and Federation Force set up the events of this game in their post-credits scenes, the culprit of both confirmed to be a major player from Hunters. Ok that trope is correctly used but it's still leave us with a single valide one.

Edited by Silverblade2 on Mar 17th 2019 at 10:27:15 AM

Metroid Prime 4's page should be cut too for the same reason as GOTG 3 and Bond 25 - nothing has even been produced and released yet for the game, not even a trailer, hence it's not tropable.

On a separate note, shouldn't we split the Future Works index between "works that have trailers" (Pokemon Sword and Shield, Frozen II, Toy Story 4, Avengers: Endgame, etc.), and "works that lack any produced material whatsoever" (Bond 25, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, Metroid Prime 4, etc.) for more organized tracking purposes?

Edited by Albert3105 on Mar 17th 2019 at 5:43:14 AM

VideoGame.Metroid Prime 4 only having two tropes makes it a stub regardless. Rule of Three applies to the minimum amount of tropes needed for a page to barely avoid being a stub. I especially think it should be cut because the work that was done was thrown out when development changed hands.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 17th 2019 at 12:52:15 PM

The Metroid Prime 4 page should be cut since we have no footage or plot and gameplay details about the game, so there is nothing that can be troped about it currently.

Alright and what about Crisis on Infinite Earths (2019)?

EDIT: I followed Albert's suggestion and sorted Sandbox.Future Works into two categories whether the work has a trailer or not. But there are some bordeline cases (For examples, The Witcher and Bayonetta 3 that only have very short teasers)

Edited by Silverblade2 on Mar 18th 2019 at 12:33:31 PM