Anyone mind that I nab the "Anime Arc" of SMG4? The arc had just finished. It'll be June 22nd.

Edited by AustinDR on Jun 11th 2019 at 8:39:12 AM

Ok.

Rawr.

Alright then. Sorry I'm late. Busy day.

Mandy (2018): Far from the "righteous man whose heart was full of love" he proclaims himself to be, Jeremiah Sand is a megalomaniac who believes that God granted him the right to take whatever he thinks he's entitled to. He treats his own followers like dirt, being willing to dispose of them when he sees the need and using the women for sexual gratification whether they're fully compliant or not. He hides behind the Black Skulls gang to do his dirty work for him, and is more than happy to torment Red by having Mandy killed in front of him before leaving him to die.

Edited by Stellarvore on Jun 11th 2019 at 11:42:28 AM

Here is my much-delayed write-up for Gouda:

Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex: Kazundo Gouda, head of the Japanese Cabinet Intelligence Service and the mastermind behind the Individual Eleven, is a truly loathsome man. Despite being a very powerful bureaucrat, Gouda desires even greater power and will stoop to any moral low to gain it. Devoid of charisma or empathy, Gouda acts rude and condescending to his peers despite his own skills being mediocre, manipulates both the government and the refugees for his own ends, and directly causes multiple mass murders and a coup attempt just to satiate his ego. Even before the full scale of his atrocities are revealed, the members of Section 9 instantly dislike and distrust him, with Batou taking great pleasure in making Gouda scream in terror by grabbing him while jumping from a helicopter. Once Gouda’s crimes are revealed, Section 9 are repulsed by his actions and become openly opposed to him.

Edited by Pemulis_128 on Jun 12th 2019 at 3:38:17 AM

Very well, here's my proposed re-evaluation for the Mana community in Cross Ange

What is the work?

Cross Ange is an anime made by Sunrise, which made focus on drama, yuri and Humongous Mecha. A lot seems to be sidetracked with its heavy Fanservice elements, which didn't speak well for the franchise, but it has elements of political intrigue, betrayal and What Measure Is a Non-Human?.

The story takes place in a world where a certain MacGuffin known as 'Mana' was discovered, thus humanity ushered a golden age and utopia where war and conflict no longer existed. However, abnormalities came up in the form of Norma, women who were born and unable to use Mana, and in fact destroyed it on touch. Because of this, Norma was extremely prejudiced and then put on exile in a lone island known as Arzenal to fight otherworldly creatures known as DRAGONs. Such was the fate of Angelise Ikaruga Misurugi, our main character and princess of the Misurugi Empire, and she had cope with her new realization as a Norma and the fact that this utopian world isn't as nice as she thought.

Who is the character and what do they do

Most people would look at the evils being Prince Julio Ikaruga Misurugi, Ange's evil brother, than initiated her fall from grace and became more petty and evil... or Embryo, the supreme lord and 'creator' of the Mana society that caused everything. However, I would like to evaluate on the Mana society in general.

They are basically the worst kind of representation of mankind. Having grown decadent, they basically do not even want to think for themselves and only acting on what was given for their own stability. This made them extremely selfish and quick to turn on their friends whenever things do not go their way. Despite being friends and worshipping her, Ange's friends, especially one girl named Akiho, quickly turned against her and treat her like lying to them all the time when she was outed as a Norma. They made it like the beloved princess Angelise never existed, it was only a monster who deserve to be brutalized for the crime of 'merely existing'.

On the other hand, a Norma named Hilda was separated from her mother for being outed as a Norma. She managed to reunite with her mother, only for her to realize that she gave birth to another child which could use Mana and named her Hilda; while discarding the original Hilda for being a Norma. It is heavily implied that such was the side-effect of using Mana, making parents forget their Norma children and move on.

Ange found out the true extent of their dastardliness when she attempted to rescue her sister Sylvia, only to turn out that it was a trap (additionally because the aforementioned Akiho turned her back against her and sold her out), and she was set to publicly executed for 'lying to the people' and 'merely existing', by Sylvia no less. And it was there that Ange had an epiphany: The Norma, for all their flaws, were still capable of decency and selfless acts. And even some Mana user like her maid Momoka managed to rise above the prejudice. These Mana community, on the other hand? They thrive in their prejudice and are stubbornly unreasonable... and they had the gall to call themselves 'humans'. From there, Ange concluded that these Mana users, who form up the majority of 'mankind', can just go suck it, they are beyond salvation and rotten to the core, and she completely regretted every sweet and positive things she said and believed when she lived as a Mana user. And she made it her goal to destroy that world built on such prejudice.

It was their own decadence that eventually made Embryo realize that he truly failed in this iteration of mankind, and made his plans to Restart the World. So it could be said that Embryo started to take the Omnicidal Maniac route because of the decadence of these Mana community. Eventually, Embryo severed their mana link and threw the world into chaos. Ange, already been hardened and encountered the true nature of DRAGONs, being modified humans (with elements of dragons) from another world but still capable of decency, just like the Norma; then encountered a group of Mana users in panic not knowing what to do... and demanded that Ange, the woman that they prejudiced to hell and back because of being a Norma, to save their own hide. At that point Ange just couldn't give any care for these 'selfish pigs' and scared them off, headshotting one of them and made them run away in fear.

In the end, they were left alone in the now post-apocalyptic world, unable to use their Mana and had to fight or kill each other to survive. Karma finally caught up to their prejudice and sins as they are now without the luxuries they enjoyed at the expense of Norma and DRAGONs, who now lived in a better, salvagable world of the DRAGONs.

What makes them personally despicable?

The Mana community, specifically those under Misurugi Empire, are basically representing mankind at their worst. There are three main vices that they have: Pride (Having access to Mana made them prideful and think of themselves above things like Norma), Wrath (they react badly against Norma) and ESPECIALLY Sloth (they don't want to move away from their established order and not wanting to rise above their nature)... To the point that whether you watch these guys on screen, it kind of make you be ashamed that they had the gall to call themselves 'humans'. They will seep into betrayal, prejudice, racism or any other nefarious actions or mindset as long as they can still enjoy their Mana, forgetting any good past they had. Those who side with Mana is considered accomplice to monsters and killed or prejudiced. Their system is rotten, and yet they don't even want to bother, as long as they get their luxuries.

While Ange herself is definitely no saint and had a lot of violent issues, you may find yourself agreeing with her that these people are rotten to the core and deserve to have their world destroyed (as long as they continue their rotten attitude, and they do, unlike some sympathetic ones like Momoka and Emma).

By far, their actions may pale compared to other Hate Sink that are actually doubling as Complete Monster: Julio and Embryo. However, even if both of them were legitimately despicable, it doesn't take away any of their sickening attitude.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

Their only 'saving grace' was that Embryo engineered them that way. They had no idea that they were created by Embryo to be racist assholes. True, some, like Momoka, was able to rise about such mindset; and another like Emma was disgusted when she realized Embryo's true nature... but she spent time with another Norma, the Arzenal commander, Jill, who treated her fairly. And perhaps, one of them, Misty Rosenbaum, being the one who managed Arzenal from the Mana User side, was actually cordial and didn't hold any of those negative attitudes towards Norma. Ange's parents were especially a big exception since they tried their best to hide Ange's Norma status until it failed in the beginning of the episode.

The others, which is our focus here? Not in a million years. They do not want to repent or realize about Embryo's machinations, as shown in their demand to have Ange save them, making this a case of Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse. True, they were engineered to be assholes, but rather than attempting to rise above it, they indulge in their asshole actions. They ignore Momoka's pleads that Norma aren't monsters, they gleefully went along with Julio's orders to have Ange's father executed just because of siding with Norma...

Even Julio, despite his high caliber depravity, can have at least several complexity (which didn't help him, but it's there), such as parental favoritism issues. Embryo as a villain can also garner Love to Hate reaction and before he squandered them all, he exhibited some Evil Is Cool traits. These guys were just 'simple asshole racists' if they were forming a community, and stays that way to the end.

BONUS (may not be damning enough because this is an adaptation): Cross Ange have been included in several Super Robot Wars installment, and it is here that we get to see how the Mana users would act once the truth of Embryo was revealed. They ignore that and continue being racist assholes against Norma (and in context of that game, anything else that's not them, but we'll just focus on the Norma)... basically, they CHOSE to be ignorant of the truth and reality, selfishly latching onto that rotten culture because it is more convenient for them.

Verdict?

Ange made it clear that she could care less about what happened to them once they were stuck in the apocalyptic world. And she considered her time as a Mana user as completely shameful that she wanted to punch herself in the face.

Hilda and the other Norma doesn't really give a damn about friendly fire against the community that gleefully made them an outcast.

The narrative imply that their fate was brought by their own actions and prejudice, moreso than Embryo's programming, seeing that we also have Mana users that rose above the prejudice (Momoka and Emma), and now that those prejudiced by them are in a much better place; it's like the narrative is saying "Serves them right".

Even their actions and lifestyle became a catalyst for Embryo to start with his Omnicidal Maniac plan for this world iteration. He might have a point in his plan even if he squandered his validity.

They have no redeeming qualities, chose by their own will to stay as the prejudiced assholes and the show is like telling that for all their utopia achievements... this is not the ideal form of mankind. They are meant to be disliked and being considered 'disgraces to the term 'human'', and they did their job well enough to attract utter disgust towards the audience. With the Norma and DRAGONs being shown to act more human than them, I think the show does intend that you're not supposed to like this crowd of Mana users.

If Embryo was being the 'extremely evil, despicable Big Bad', these Mana users would look like 'the supreme local bully that makes the heroes' lives miserable just because they want and can; and doesn't try to repent'.

(And from the look of it, it works. Cross Ange attracted several detractors, and how the Mana users, representing humans, are portrayed, tend to be one of the reasons they were appalled, contributing to some of the audience being inflicted with Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy)

So I'd say that they FIT.

Edited by ChrisX on Jun 14th 2019 at 4:09:28 PM

Hi, everyone. I don't have time to do a proper effort post for this thread due to, well, pretty much everything else I'm doing, but I wanted to mention that years ago, I added a Hate Sink example to Batman: The Dark Knight Returns for the bit character Byron Brassballs. If anyone that's participating in this thread is familiar with that work, I believe he's a strong keep but needs a proper writeup.

Mana.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the work.

Anyways, I'm going to the states later today for the weekend and will be offline during that time.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 13th 2019 at 3:06:58 PM

Rawr.

the Mana.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."

Reading the effort post, I switch to for the Mana community.

From Ma:

What is the work?

Ma is a 2019 psychological horror film starring Octavia Spencer as the titular "Ma." In the film, teenage Maggie Thompson goes to a town in Ohio with her mother after her parents split. Quickly befriending a group of teens - Haley, Andy Hawkins, Chaz, and Darrell respectively — they decide to party it up but first, they needed to have an adult hook them up with some booze. They come across a veterinarian technician named Sue Ann Ellington, and she quickly invites them to party in her basement. But it is soon made apparent that something was wrong with Ma.

Who are they?

Ben Hawkins and Mercedes are two of the adult characters in the film. Ben is Andy's father who owns a van company, and Mercedes is his girlfriend. Both of them are responsible for Ma's mental state. Years ago, they attended the same high school that Ma attended. She was made fun of for her bookish appearance, and most likely because she was the only African American student attending the high school, though it is never outright stated. Eventually, Ben and Mercedes orchestrate a prank. Ben pretends to develop feelings for Ma, and tells her that he'd meet her in the janitor's closet for a little...rendezvous. Ma takes the bait and ends up giving a BJ to a total stranger. Ben and Mercedes stand outside laughing at her, causing her spiral into madness.

Years later, Ben meets Ma at the vet and suggests they go to eat out at a restaurant to catch up on old times. Ma arrives at the restaurant, but Ben quickly reveals his true colors revealing that he had tracking devices built into his vans and that he was aware that his son was going to her house. He reminds her that she was still a loser like she was back then, clearly showing that he was unrepentant for the humiliation he caused her. He threatens her to keep her distance from his son, and he leaves.

While driving a few days later, Ma notices Mercedes on her daily jog and mows her down with her car. And she turns the song "September" up at full blast to celebrate. She later takes the tracking device from Andy's car and uses it to lure his father to her house. When he arrives, Ma quickly injects him with a sedative and he gets knocked out cold. Awakening in her room, completely nude, Ma decides to toy with him by making it look like she was going to cut his pingas off...but it was ultimately a bluff. Ben tries to beg for mercy by reminding her that he was just a kid back then to which she replies that she was one once. She slices his wrist and places an IV needle filled with dog blood into it. His bloodstream clots from the dog blood, and he dies.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

None. They were nothing more than absolute pricks bullying on a defenseless girl by feeding on her desire to be one of the cool kids, and they grew up to be completely shitty grownups. At the very least Ben's one redeeming trait is that he does care about his son...but he nevertheless has no qualms with calling the police to arrest him after he was notified that he was seen illegally drinking. There's nothing more to either of their characters. Mercedes' Establishing Character Moment in fact is stealing two wine glasses that weren't even for her table. They also receive no sympathy when Ma kills them both.

Verdict

While not outright evil, they were responsible for driving a person insane, so I think they're bad enough. Thoughts?

Was thinking they'd come up reading the tropes for the film

to Ben and Mercedes

Things are really about to get Fun around here

How many s do I need till I can make a write-up for the trope entry?

Okay I did get 3... Hold on.

Edited by ChrisX on Jun 14th 2019 at 1:35:40 AM

About 3.

Things are really about to get Fun around here

HateSink.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure:

The very last entry has Characterization Tags, which is not permitted on the wiki. I plan to see if the other entries can be rewritten and re-evaluated. Meanwhile, may I remove those tags?

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!

Btw has Thunderbolt Ross from the MCU been discussed here yet.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

I dont think so Mir. But I'd be glad to see a case made for him.

Also welcome to the thread!

Things are really about to get Fun around here

Here is my draft for the The Liar Princess and the Blind Prince: The Liar Princess and the Blind Prince has the titular Prince's parents, the king and queen of the nearby kingdom. Despite never appearing onscreen (with their actions only being described by the narrator), their abuse and negligence of their son puts the plot in motion. When the Prince is (accidentally) attacked and scarred by the Wolf, the Prince's parents lock away their son in a tower, disgusted by his facial injuries. This makes the Wolf feel guilty even more, and the act of cruelty disgusts her so much, that she makes her plans to heal the prince without considering or caring how the two will be affected by the heir to their kingdom mysteriously disappearing for a few days.

Did anybody reserve season 5 of Black Mirror? I checked the discussion dates list and to-do list but couldn’t find anyone listed as having it reserved. I think there’s a very valid Hate Sink candidate in that season. Also, the dates list still has season 5’s date as TBA when it’s already out so that needs correcting.

Edited by Pemulis_128 on Jun 15th 2019 at 4:46:47 AM

Here is my draft for Batman: Arkham Origins:
Arkham Origins's Cold, Cold Heart has its incarnation of Ferris Boyle. While Boyle is an awful person in Batman: The Animated Series, he did have a point that Victor's experiment was unauthorized. This Boyle has no such excuse, and is given far crimes than his animated counterpart. He makes a deal with Victor that he will help him find a cure for Nora in exchange for him developing cryo-weapons, personally assaults Victor when the latter realizes he has no intention of honoring his bargain and refuses to cooperate with him any further, kidnaps Nora (all the while claiming she's his property as cryonic test subject), sadistically taunts a helpless Victor about how he will kill Nora in front of him before killing him, just so he can see her slip away, all the while bashing him in the head, and attempts to kill Batman despite the latter saving his life just so he can erase all evidence of his crimes. Batman punching him unconscious is definitely satisfying as it is well-deserved.

Okay, here's my writeup for the Mana community.

• The Mana community in general are a bunch of prejudiced, decadent and racist people that resorts to every despicable mindset in order to keep their order and luxurious lifestyle, while other kind of people like Norma and DRAGONs, had to suffer and be prejudiced horribly for them, with the Norma being considered subhumans and everyone willingly forgetting their times with them in the past and thinking that they're just monsters in disguise. Only a few managed to rise above these sentiments, but those who don't rise above it will refuse to learn and continue being entitled Dirty Cowards when things don't go their way or when hit with reality. Even their origins that Embryo implanted such mindset on them is outweighed with how disgusting their unrepentant racism mindset is. Such decadence eventually made Embryo decide that the world is beyond salvation and proceeded with his Omnicidal Maniac Restart the World plot, and no one gave a damn about them when their civilization collapsed with the lack of Mana, as if karma finally catching up to their sins. They make up the majority of 'humans' in the setting, but it's clear that the narrative wanted to say that they are extremely far from the ideal humanity when the Normas or DRAGONs act more humane than them.

Edited by ChrisX on Jun 15th 2019 at 5:58:40 PM

I might say yes to the Mana community. Though speaking of which, I might wanted to bring the prejudiced civilians from Radiant. While Konrad's still awful, these civilians almost had the same circumstances with Mana Users. They are the people who had a huge hatred towards the Sorcerers in general considered they were infected by a creature called as Nemesis and also treats them horribly. Though some of them repent...Yeah...

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

Permission to reevaluate Shelby Forthright from WALL•E?

Go ahead

Also You don't quite need to ask "permission" just make an EP

Edited by Kylotrope on Jun 15th 2019 at 2:56:49 AM

Things are really about to get Fun around here

I do not think Shelby Forthright from WALL•E should count as a Hate Sink. The example describes him as a Corrupt Corporate Executive who cancelled the operation to clean up Earth for the sake of profit. There is actually no signs at all that this is the case. The recordings have him explain that the project failed and he saw no hope at all for Earth, which is why he gave the order to never return to Earth at all. His character profile on this Wiki even described him as Well-Intentioned Extremist who had crossed the Despair Event Horizon.

What is the work?

WALL•E (2008), Pixar's 9th film, is a Science Fiction love story.

In 2115, humans abandon the now-inhospitable Earth so it can be cleaned up by a small army of "Waste Allocation Load Lifter" robots (WALL•E — the E stands for Earth) whilst they enjoy a five-year vacation cruise in space. The plan doesn't really work; seven centuries later, the last of those robots to still be running — the WALL•E in the title — is still collecting junk and living with his pet cockroach. One day, WALL•E is going about his business as usual when a spaceship drops off a much more modern robot. Her name is EVE, and WALL•E is smitten at first sight. When the ship comes back and picks her up, he stows away. The return trip brings him back to the remnants of humanity, and that's when things get really complicated...

Known for its excellent CGI and sound design, the film hearkens back to the silent film days of yore, with virtually no dialogue for the first forty minutes of the movie.

Sigourney Weaver provides the voice of the computer. Fred Willard appears in what is to date the only live-action performance in a Pixar film, as Buy 'n Large CEO Shelby Forthright.

Who is the character, and what do they do?

Shelby Forthright is the CEO of Buy n Large as of the exodus from Earth to clean up the rampant trash everywhere. It's revealed later that the exodus failed and Forthright had given up trying to clean up the Earth, giving the directive for humanity to never return to Earth, an order that the film's antagonist AUTO carries out for 700 years and intends to continue following by getting rid of the plant EVE brings to the ship, regardless of whether or not the order changed.

What makes them personally despicable?

The example page says that Forthright's reasons for giving the directive are for purely profitable and selfish reasons, ensuring that Buy n Large could keep profiting off of the people living on the cruise starships, and is ultimately responsible for the degeneration of mankind of the centuries.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

Shelby's reason for giving the directive is actually because he believed Earth was beyond salvation, and thus could no longer support life. So he's more of a posthumous Unwitting Instigator of Doom.

Verdict?

I believe Forthright does not count as a Hate Sink. The example's description of him is inaccurate, since he has not displayed any selfish intent or any despicable qualities in the slightest. He's not even treated as a Hate Sink In-Universe.

Edited by Mattman_the_Storyteller on Jun 15th 2019 at 5:36:08 AM