The Scrappy Cleanup

Examples from YMMV.Only Yesterday:

• The Scrappy:
  • Taeko's father may be viewed as one by the audiences considering that while he regretted slapping her when she left the house barefoot to join them, he doesn't hesitate to callously belittle her after she discovered her potential to be a child actress saying that "show-business people are no good" without even elaborating on the major reason for this issue. Even his daughters remark how stubborn he was about the issue afterwards.
  • The rest of Taeko's family can count as well, from her mother wondering if Taeko has a developmental disorder after doing poorly on one math test, to her sisters' constant bullying of her.

I'm pretty sure the father is supposed to be hated, while the rest of the family isn't a singular character. All in all, it feels more like a case of Values Dissonance turning it into Americans Hate Tingle.

Web Videos says that pretty much all The Irate Gamer characters qualify, clearly writing from the perspective of the hatedom. This should only apply if the fandom hates the characters. From what little I have seen and read on the internet, not even Ronnie or the Devil seem to be disliked by the fandom. Permission to cut?

Edited by Threedogs123 on Aug 19th 2020 at 4:09:34 AM

The Scrappy is an Examples Are Not Recent trope, right? And thus a certain amount of time must pass before they can be applied? I've found a few examples from media that is less than six months old.

Edited by StrixObscuro on Aug 22nd 2020 at 3:55:44 PM

By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.

From YMMV.Descendants

• The Scrappy:
  • Ally, Alice's daughter from Wicked World has had a rather tepid reception. The attempt at making her a Cloudcuckoolander Genki Girl comes off as forced and grating, and she can also come off as incredibly passive-aggressive toward her friends. It really got bad at the climax of Wicked World's second season where she just sat back and let Audrey go on an ill-informed rant toward Mal and refuse to help her, and then only some time after Mal had left did she suddenly think to reveal to Audrey that Mal hadn't been in control of her actions. What the Hell, Ally? I don't know too much about this character to judge this, though it's weird that Wicked World doesn't have a page on its own
  • The Evil Queen, Cruella, and Jafar do not get any love out of the fandom because of the Adaptational Wimp each one suffered and how they were pretty much reduced to Adaptational Comic Relief for the duration of the movie. On the one hand, they are three seperate characters in canon, but on the other, they all act the same in this canon. So it's pretty muddled.
  • The Disney Heroes themselves are reviled in many circles due to their employment of the Isle of the Lost with many critics and causal Disney fans referring to it as a concentration camp or a ghetto. Some reviews have even pointed out the sheer hypocrisy of banishing both villains and family members to the isle, seeing how some of the heroes themselves are blood-related to their villains. This one breaks the Single Hated Character rule without a doubt and also feels more like Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
  • Few people seem to care much about Dude after he was accidently given the ability to speak with a truth serum. Mostly because the concept of a wise-cracking animal is simply out-there for an already absurd series of Live-Action movies, and many find his jokes and personality to be way too obnoxious to be funny. Valid example, keep

Edited by tropineasily on Aug 22nd 2020 at 6:51:59 AM

From YMMV.Sleepless Domain.

• Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Slightly. In the 2019 character poll, Forte Drums received no votes at all. In the 2020 character poll, she got the highest amount of votes out of everyone in Team Forte (with Forte Lead getting the least amount of characters who weren't write-ins).
• The Scrappy: Team Forte seems to receive the least amount of love from the fandom, to the point they're consistently ranked the lowest in the yearly popularity polls three years running. In 2019, Forte Drums was at the bottom of the poll with no votes. In 2020, Forte Lead was at the bottom with the least amount of votes for characters who were put on the poll.

Going by how its written, they aren't hated, just not popular.

Edited by WhirlRX on Aug 23rd 2020 at 10:55:43 AM

Just changed the Scrappy section on League of Legends for having two base breaking characters and for breaking the single hated character rule. But I do still have concerns:

• The Scrappy:
  • Teemo. On top of his cuteness just making him a general easy target, his kit is the most infamous in the entire game, with passive stealth, poison auto-attacks, a unique, hard-to-read blinding dart that negates your auto-attack damage (dangerous for auto attack carries), and worst of all, his invisible mushroom mines that can be placed all over the map that blow up when you stomp on them, making games against him utterly annoying. Riot has seemed to embrace his "punching bag" status, though as a result, they seem to be content in leaving him an ultimately low-tier champion whose main saving grace is his sheer tilt factor, which likely isn't going away any time soon.
  • Fizz has gotten a lot of hate within the League of Legends ever since some professional players play him in season 3. This is not only because of his annoying, but difficult gameplay mechanics (massive mobility "hit-and-run" style, his Playful/Trickster can avoid most of the most deadly attacks and spells, and his damage over time from his autoattacks that actually gets stronger the less health you have that serves as his main killing damage), but many people in the forums completely hate for his cuteness. It's also not uncommon for players to ban Fizz in lower ranks for both his annoying gameplay that is difficult to counter properly AND his cuteness.

I feel like these two are just describing their hatred as Tier-Induced Scrappies instead of anything they've done. But at the same time, I do acknowledge that Teemo has been disliked for his kit enough to probably consider that it overshadows his character. Either cut or expand.

• If a whole faction can be this, then the Solari sect can be considered as such. At their core, they're a sect that claims to be benevolent, preaching the ways of protection and using the light of the sun as power... only to be revealed that they're extremely rigid Knight Templars with a dark secret: Being linked with the genocide of their sister sect, the Lunari. When Diana exposed that, rather than owning up to their mistakes, they instead decreed her a heretic and sentenced her to death, causing her transformation into a ruthless being who slaughtered their elders. Their post-retcon lore bafflingly seemed to double down in this factor, confirming their rumors of indoctrinating followers into their self-righteous, isolationist beliefs, making them come off as being designed to look like lying fascist assholes who indulge in genocide, with no word on whether they were supposed to come off as such or not. As of the release of Aphelios this is certainly deliberate, as the first thing the Solari do when they catch wind of a hidden Lunari sect is to send in a force to Kill Em All.

Not only do these guys seem like Hate Sinks, not only is it a group and not one character, but it's also a group that doesn't even appear in-game. They only appear in the backstories for characters like Leona, Aurelion Sol, and Pantheon. I'm considering cutting it.

I also found this when looking at the rules on the Main Scrappy page when talking about fans of the work.

"Barney and Caillou are definitely still hated, but the works they hail from are reviled enough as is and clearly meant for a different audience; thus they cannot be considered Scrappies."

I just feel that's still taking unnecessary pot shots. Should I remove that too?

@tropineasily: cut Only Yesterday examples as it fails to explain how it's unintentional, and cut Disney Heroes from Descendants for violating the no group rule (it it's not feasible to name all the groups members than it's too big to count). @Threedogs123: cut as if they hate most of the characters they're almost certainly not fans to begin with. @ejmenendez: cut League of Legends examples as Scrappy is about hatred for narrative reason which don't apply to Teemo and Fizz and Solari is intentional.

From Web Videos:

• The Angry Grandpa has pretty much everybody except Grandpa. His son Michael is hated for being a lazy, unemployed, fat slob. Grandpa's ex-wife Tina is hated because of her less-than ideal level of intelligence. Grandpa's ex-neighbor Tina is hated for just being an annoying loudmouth. Even Michael's girlfriend Bridgette has become this because living with him has pretty much made her a female expy.

If most of the cast is hated, how do they like the show enough to be fans? The quality of the entries seems a mixed bag in explain unintentional hated. Thoughts?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Aug 24th 2020 at 11:31:10 AM

From TheScrappy.World Of Warcraft

Baine, Nathanos and Sylvanas don't belong on this list. These three characters fit as Base Breaking Characters as they're all the subject of heated arguments about their characters and the quality of their writing. None of them are universally hated.

I got this example from Video Games:

• The monkeys from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, particularly the one that "helps" you in the Forest Temple. As the game suffers from a very long Prolonged Prologue and Forced Tutorial which takes a couple of hours to complete before you can even reach the temple (and you still haven't even been to Hyrule Field yet), this initial temple should have been your first opportunity to freely explore a large area. Instead, this monkey Rail Roads you through a large portion of the temple and never stops chattering or hooting at you, even when you're giving in and following her.

How does this count? It's not a named character nor a single one and generally the entire entry reads more like the editor had a personal vendetta against that little creature than actually talking for the entire fandom. The prologue taking "hours" to complete is also blatanly wrong, as you can complete it in half an hour, or one hour at most.

It's actually somewhat of a disappointment that this "character" was listed as the only Zelda entry, considering how Zelda has a lot of genuine examples. "Hey, Listen!" "Shall I Repeat That?"

Speaking of Video Games, guess who was falsely put into the The Scrappy category again:

• Amongst newcomers, Isabelle is shaping up to be one in New Horizons. Isabelle's main job as of New Horizons is to make announcements. Every day. Unfortunately after K.K slider visits the first time (and even before!) she has absolutely nothing useful to say. You're constantly listening to her talking about inane things such as her magazines, a novel she read, a movie she saw for the umpteenth time, or a TV show. None of which you have the chance to see. Outside of rare events, she never says anything and you can't just skip it and get to the game. Sure, the first few times she points out she doesn't have anything to say are kind of funny, but when she does this every day for several weeks, it becomes very annoying. A lot of people are asking for a patch or an update to shut her up. On top of that, you can complain about villagers but it does nothing to get them removed and her island ratings are becoming disliked due to their arbitrary standards. Considering she was beloved for her usefulness in the past couple games, a lot of newcomers are wondering just what was so special about this character they just want to shut up.
  • What's worse, many players start zoning her out because of the aforementioned uselessness. This can result in players missing events they actually want to see (Such as shooting stars) or not realising there was a villager staying at the campsite because it turns out, Isabelle had something useful to say this time around.

The example has (thankfully) been hidden, since she was already settled to be a Base-Breaking Character. However, that doesn't make the example any less unnecessary, since

A: She's supposedly hated by newcomers, which is not the majority of the fanbase, as it indirectly states that "yeah, there are people who love her, but we'll just ignore them for the sake of putting her here". (Besides, I've seen maybe one person on Twitter complaining about her and that's it)

B: Again, she's really just a case of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character and maybe a bit of Scrappy Mechanic, which doesn't tarnish her reputation in veteran circles at all, if anything, it makes her more popular.

C: She's already listed as a Base-Breaking Character in the main series page. So instead of just adding to that, whoever this troper is seems hellbent on turning her into The Scrappy, even though she breaks the Consistently Hated and Hated by the majority rules.

Just remove the entry and add a commented out entry on the YMMV page that says that you're not allowed to add any contention of sorts til September 20th, 2020

Edited by Loekman3 on Aug 26th 2020 at 3:29:01 PM

Guess what? All of these come from the same troper.

I'll remove those entries as told, like I did before. I was just making sure if that's okay.

This entry was removed from The Lorax:

• The Scrappy:
  • O'Hare, considering how he only exists to make the Once-ler look good by comparison, as well as being as unsubtle and boring as possible. Add his ugly character design into the mix and wonder why they even bothered inserting him into the story.
  • Ted, unusually for a protagonist, has very few fans. Mostly since he doesn't really have a motivation to save the trees, beyond making Audrey happy. And even then, that's only to make her fall for him, rather than a genuine act of kindness.

The editor said that a Hate Sink and The Scrappy are "entirely different". I disagree, a Hate Sink can overlap with The Scrappy when the character detracts from the story. Every story needs conflict, but sometimes, a villain can be excessive when he isn't a real threat or feels out of place, Governor Ratcliffe for example was confirmed to be The Scrappy, despite being the villain.

As for Ted, he was removed since his entry was "too cynical", I don't see it. He isn't as obnoxious as Oscar, or as unlikeable as Allen Gregory, but he's still far from engaging, since he doesn't have a good motivation or a real personality.

Are those characters in the book by any chance? Because they might fall into the “inconsistent portrayal” rule.

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Ted is the name given to the Boy of the original story.

I don't see Ted and the boy from the original book as the same character, considering how the boy was a Vanilla Protagonist, the reader was supposed to imagine themselves in his shoes, while Ted has a clear personality. Besides, adaptations can be seen as their own thing, seperate from the original work.

O'Hare definitely doesn't qualify for that rule, it's even stated in the entry itself.

Just because you don't see how they're the same character dosen't mean they aren't.

Also, given that the movie is hated, wouldn't that disqualify both characters anyway?

YMMV.Mega Man X 7

• Replacement Scrappy: Axl takes X's position as main character and is pretty much an inferior clone of him gameplay-wise, along with having an insufferably whiny and obnoxious personality that didn't endear him to players. He was Rescued from the Scrappy Heap in later games, though; becoming older and more likeable and gaining a more unique and interesting play style — similar to that of Bass in Mega Man & Bass — in the sequel.
• The Scrappy:
  • Flame Hyenard himself, gets quite a bit of this. Him being a tortured monster might have struck sympathy, but his annoying boss fight and spamming "BURN! BURN! BURN TO THE GROUND!" largely eclipsed that. He and his stage are often considered the perfect encapsulation of the problems of the whole game.
  • Tornado Tonion is another fairly disliked Maverick because of his obnoxious voice, childish personality and that his design is based on an onion. It's no wonder why the Maverick designs in X7 are considered to be one of the weakest in the series.

I'm not sure about Axl being a Replacement Scrappy, you do get to play as X later on, so he dosen't really replace X.

Flame Hyenard might be better under That One Boss and That One Level.

Tornado Tonion might work, but I'm still not sure if we have consensus on hated installments having scrappies or not.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Aug 27th 2020 at 8:23:23 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Bringing up this example from The Multiversity:

• The Scrappy: The Just #1's version of Connor Hawke is one of the most disliked versions of the character, owing both to how Connor was both blatantly whitewashed and used as Earth-16's superhero equivalent of Billy Ray Cyrus which, even when taking into consideration that this is a parallel Earth, was completely contradictory to his main universe counterpart. It doesn't help this issue came out during a period where Connor's been totally erased from the current DC continuity, making Earth-16 Connor stick out like a sore thumb.

^ That one seems questionable. Being the "most hated version" of a character does not automatically make that version a Scrappy, does it? The hatred has to go beyond just the original character's fandom, as I understand it.

Edited by StrixObscuro on Aug 27th 2020 at 12:36:39 PM

By now, it should be clear to all except the most dense of us that sheep are secretly conspiring to kill us all and steal our pants.

There also not that many Alternative version of Conner.

Bringing up the The Lorax issue again, yes, the movie has a hatedom, but primarily for its fandom.

Otherwise it's hated for being a poor adaptation of Dr. Seuss' novel, but that doesn't mean that it can't be well-received by people who haven't read it.

Also, the point is that O'Hare qualifies for being ineffective and unnecessary as the Once-ler's family could've easily filled his place as the Hate Sink to make the Once-ler look better. He has no place in the story and is a terrible villain, if he's supposed to be hated or not doesn't matter in this case.

I would say all three Megaman X7 examples are valid (although part of Flame Hynard's could be moved).

It's not that X isn't playable at all, but that Axl takes his main role (forcing you to unlock the titular character during the game). Combined with his whiny voice and X7 being... X7, it makes him a pretty archetypical Replacement Scrappy. (As the page mentions, he's rescued later.)

Flame Hynard is probably the single most despised boss in the franchise because of his voice clips during the fight. That's pretty much the only reason people hate him as a character, but people HATE him because of that.

Edited by DefiantKitsune on Aug 28th 2020 at 5:00:07 AM

I'm not sure that Hyenard is the most despised boss to fight in the franchise. From what I understand, he's extremely annoying to listen to, of course, but not that hard to actually deal with, unlike, say, several of X6's bosses. The thought of any non-recurring Mega Man boss being considered a Scrappy seems kinda iffy to me, mainly due to their very Monster of the Week status.

YMMV.The Jetsons

• The Scrappy: Orbitty. Even the people working on the series hated him, and John Kricfalusi has gone on record as having frequently tried to work in scenes where he'd get abused in the episodes for which he was an animation supervisor.

This one’s a ZCE. Would be nice if someone who knew the show would expand on this.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Aug 29th 2020 at 10:08:11 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

Bringing up these examples from Prehistoric Earth:

• Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: After initially starting out as a flat Creator's Pet of Drew Luczynski's that Nathanoraptor had to fight to keep from upstaging more interesting characters, Cynthia managed to become far more appealing to the readers (and to Nathanoraptor himself for that matter) after being allowed to show off some of her other personality traits beyond the ones displayed in her introduction, and also being allowed to develop some much needed substance by virtue of her serving as a Red Herring, and later being revealed as a Reverse Mole.

• The Scrappy: Cynthia, when she was first introduced, was not liked by the readers, with many citing her lack of substance compared to the other (arguably more interesting at the time) characters and her being immediately shoved into a then unearned prominent role as failings. Even Nathanoraptor has stated he did not like the character. However, in Phase Three, she largely got Rescued from the Scrappy Heap. But even so, she is still noticeably the only character amongst the 12 that Nathanoraptor himself considers the 'main cast' amongst the Prehistoric Earth staff who has still not yet (if ever) received any guarantee of successfully making the jump to subsequent Continuity Reboot Prehistoric Park Reimagined.