Inspired by this thread
, I've noticed that this wiki doesn't have a dedicated cleanup thread for negativity.
As we all know, Complaining About Shows You Don't Like, Creator Bashing and other negativity isn't desired on the wiki, except in a few selected areas like reviews and several Darth Wiki pages (and even then, with limitations). And yet, it's one of the most common sins wiki contributors can make.
So, if you find a page, TLP or discussion whose content seems like a straight-up insult or any other bitching - including complainy soapboxing -, you might ask here for help with removing said content.
The sandbox for this project is located at Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining.
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 27th 2022 at 5:36:47 AM
Apprentice Alphabetizer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Given this has (according to the post history) already been extensively rewritten to make it less negative, this is going to need some work. Seems to be an artifact of the page being from 2013, with few contributors.
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
I found this entry on Demographic-Dissonant Crossover that feels like Audience-Alienating Premise in disguise:
- Equestria at War, a Game Mod for Hearts of Iron that fuses it with My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic of all things. The idea of a My Little Pony mod for Hearts of Iron turns off a lot of potential players as many MLP fans are not terribly interested in a war game, much less getting deep into the mechanics (or increasingly high cost of entry) of Hearts of Iron IV, while most Hearts of Iron fans are turned off by the idea of playing a mod about technicolor ponies. As a result, despite the effort put into it rivalling or even surpassing other famous mods, the mod never makes the most played/subscribed mods list in the yearly player data developer diaries where Paradox shares telemetry about what countries are most played, what portion of players play modded, and what mods are most played (or at least subscribed), while mods like Millennium Dawn or Red Flood regularly feature. If you need further proof, just compare how relatively barren the trope pages for that work are compared to the trope pages of The New Order: Last Days of Europe and Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg.
Cut it from that page and put it onto Audience-Alienating Premise but re-written to be a lot more neutral-sounding.
Edited by DongwaChan on Mar 19th 2023 at 9:47:35 AM
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
I don't think fan works are allowed on Audience-Alienating Premise. I'll completely rewrite it instead.
Sounds good.
Bringing this up from the film page for Big-Lipped Alligator Moment. This also seems to involve some Narm misuse.
- During the third segment of Twilight Zone: The Movie, the child with powers, Anthony, makes a strange, shape-shifting creature emerge from the television. It is both
terrifyingaccidentally hilarious and pointless. It is also never mentioned again.
Edited by DongwaChan on Mar 19th 2023 at 11:57:12 AM
Re:Dungeon Lords - I did my best, but I honestly know nothing about the game. Kinda jumped the gun and already updated the page, but here's what I wrote up.
The character progression system is point- and level-based, meaning a wizard can buy wizard skills cheaper than armour skills but still get both — in practice, this means that characters become do-it-all übermenschen with ridiculous powersets by mid-game. Combat is action based, with shield blocking and tactical movement being as important as stat growth, and the game puts heavy emphasis on dungeon crawling compared to its contemporaries.
The game is known for launching as an Obvious Beta, with players and critics lambasting the title for missing several expected features and being full of bugs such as quest items randomly disappearing from the player's inventory, the player avatar clipping into world geometry, and walking into certain areas rendering the game Unintentionally Unwinnable. Many of these issues would be fixed in a number of patches, ultimately culminating in Version 1.5 being released as the standaloneDungeon Lords Collector's Edition the following year, which also expanded to include multiple side-quests and character creation options.
The poor reception of the initial release resulted in plans for a sequel being put on hold indefinitely. However, David W. Bradley and his team would later go on to develop a Updated Re-release entitled Dungeon Lords MMXII. Sporting updated graphics, reworked classes and even more new content, MMXII released in late 2012. It was later re-released on Steam as Dungeon Lords Steam Edition in December 2015.
Sounds good.
The Destroyer of Food
On the Equestria at War example, the reason why it read like Audience-Alienating Premise in disguised is because it used to be an example of Audience-Alienating Premise. However a while ago I brought it up on the Audience-Alienating Premise cleanup thread and argued against it, saying it was misuse duo to the mod being way too popular to qualify(for example it was the 66# most popular mod on Hearts of Iron 4's Steam Workshop last time I checked and has several videos about it on You Tube with views numbering in the tens or hundreds of thousands) and it should have been deleted outright. The other tropers on the thread disagreed on the matter and we eventually compromised on changing the example from a Audience-Alienating Premise to a Demographic-Dissonant Crossover(without actually changing the example to better fit the new trope). So if you all read it rather long-winded and complainy then the backstory above is why.
Also, Equestria at War's page has an unaltered copy of now mostly delated paragraph long complainty example so you might all want to go there and give it the same treatment.
Edited by TBJack on Mar 19th 2023 at 12:16:20 PM
Beware, I live!
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
×4 I don't know a lot about the game either, but this looks much better.
Bringing this up from Dino Squad. These entries regarding inaccuracies in regards to animal species seem pretty complainy. Is there a way to make these two more neutral-sounding?
- Artistic License – Biology: Several. Particularly one episode which had a baby gorilla with a tail. Another claimed that cold-blooded animals can stay warm by keeping active and keeping their blood pumping.
- Informed Species: All over the place. In addition to the expected issue of the scaly, oversized Velociraptors, there's also Rodger's Styracosaurus form, which isn't readily recognizable as such thanks to its three horns, which make it look more like a Triceratops. There was also a "mutant Megalodon" that was clearly supposed to be a mosasaur, and a baby gorilla that looked more like a monkey, complete with a tail.
Apprentice Alphabetizer
^ The Artistic License – Biology example doesn’t seem too bad. How about this as a rework for the second one?
- Informed Species:
- Rodger's Styracosaurus form isn't readily recognizable as such thanks to its three horns, which make it look more like a Triceratops.
- Several varied examples throughout the series: for example, a creature that is described as a "mutant Megalodon" looks just like a mosasaur, and there's a "baby gorilla" that looks more like a monkey, complete with a tail.
I'd go with that, though I'd still re-write the Artistic License – Biology entry since it still sounds a bit whiny. I'd cut the italics from the word "tail" (BTW, I think it could have just been an animation error, not a inaccuracy on the producers' part)
If the tail is an animation error, then it can be cut. It already says that there are several instances, so there can just be the one example, with an explanation for why it's wrong:
- Artistic License – Biology: Several. For example, one episode claims that cold-blooded animals can stay warm by being active and keeping their blood pumping. Only warm-blooded animals are capable of this, as cold-blooded animals are defined by their internal temperature and metabolism being wholly controlled by the outside environment.
Edited by RacattackForce on Mar 20th 2023 at 11:56:13 AM
Sounds a lot better. I'll go with that.
Bringing this up from the film page for Big-Lipped Alligator Moment. This also seems to involve some Narm misuse.
- During the third segment of Twilight Zone: The Movie, the child with powers, Anthony, makes a strange, shape-shifting creature emerge from the television. It is both
terrifyingaccidentally hilarious and pointless. It is also never mentioned again.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Oh, we actually have a brand new BLAM cleanup. Why not take it there?
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 21st 2023 at 3:42:15 PM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Pensive Wright
I once made an Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole entry for RWBY that was cut twice. The second time was effectively for adding it back without full approval of this board, making it an edit war, and for that, I apologize. But now I'll address all the the criticisms levied at the entry.
- Cinder Fall's backstory in RWBY is a Whole-Plot Reference to the Cinderella fairytale but transplanting the classic story into the pre-established world of Remnant and other alternations create some serious logical holes. In most versions of the story, Cinderella is made responsible for all the housework in her family manor that, while large, has only a few people in it, while here, Cinder appears to be the only staff in a hotel that looks like it could hold dozens if not hundreds of guests. Slavery is also explicitly illegal in Remnant note but the Prince Charming analogue in Cinder's backstory, a sympathetic huntsman named Rhodes, never brings up the possibility of calling the police or social services, instead deciding to help her by training her to be a huntress for the next several years. Word of God was that Rhodes was unaware of the true horrors of Cinder's living conditions, just as the Prince is generally unaware of Cinderella's, but this raises further questions, because in this story the duo interacts for years instead of a single night, Cinderella's treatment is not illegal in most tellings due to both not being as harsh, and taking place before laws against child abuse were commonplace, and the Prince did not approach Cinderella with the explicit intention of helping her as Rhodes does Cinder, giving Cinderella far less incentive to explain things.
Criticism 1: The story was perfectly logical because Cinder's treatment was likely legal, based on Atlas's known worker abuse and Madame being Cinder's legal guardian possibly serving as Loophole Abuse, and authority figures like Rhodes being incompetent is a theme in RWBY.
Word of God surrounding the issue effectively disconfirms the first two points, and thematic consistency alone cannot justify characters acting in illogical ways. These points were not re-iterated when the entry was being cut again, so I take it to mean there's no disagreement that the story has plot holes.
Criticism 2: Fairytales are not eligible for Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole.
The trope's main page has at least one example from a fairytale; that of the people forgetting about the Prince and the Castle in Disney's Beauty and the Beast. The trope's Live Action Film page also has an entry for Troy, and Greek myths like The Iliad are effectively fairytales. Fairytales may (usually) lack a definitive original text, but we can still call certain stories adaptations if they deliberately use enough tropes and story beats common to most of the fairytale's versions.
Therefore, the entry explains a plot hole in a story that results from it being an adaptation. My entry should be re-instated, but I'm open to counterpoints.
There's this sub-bullet in the Star Wars entry of What Measure Is a Non-Human?.Film:
- George Lucas, in his commentary for Attack of the Clones, mentions that he figures the Geonosians were probably the ones building the Death Star and that it's okay for them to be blown up along with it, because they're "just large termites." They're still sentients, George!
I think the first sentence is ok, if in need of a reword. Something like this might be better:
- In the DVD Commentary for Attack of the Clones, George Lucas expresses that the Geonosians are "just large termites", and that this is meant to make them inherently unsympathetic despite their displayed sentience.
On Live and Let Die:
- So Okay, It's Average: Generally considered a campy and rather stereotypical period piece that is lifted up by a suspenseful plot driven by Roger Moore and Jane Seymour's standout performances, along with a beloved theme song that found life outside the movie.
Is it just me or does this entry read as really positive? "It's campy fun, suspenseful, has great performances from its leads, and a famous theme song. 5/10". I think Live and Let Die is among the more well-liked films in the series, so I think this should be cut.
OK, I just rewrote it the way you suggested.
I'm helping!
I forget, do we still include haters in Fan Nickname or was that deleted? Cause on YMMV.Miraculous Ladybug:
- For Marinette's detractors, Stalkerette and/or Marishit is typically used.
(I stay away from the salt-heavy segments of the "fandom", so I'm just gonna take as given that her haters do in fact call her that.)
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
I believe we're supposed to remove detractor nicknames.
I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this, so I can take it to a different one if need be. Anyway, I found this entry on Kid Amid the Chaos that I feel like we can cut down. It feels a bit bashy towards the religious aspect of the film, and it has a fair bit of word cruft as well. The original goes like this:
- In The Prince of Egypt, children are everywhere, crying, ducking and generally miserable, when God sends his wrath against the Egyptians. This is supposed to make us dislike the Pharaoh instead of God, however. After all, it's the Pharaoh's fault (kinda) for not agreeing to release the Hebrews. Inverted in the song "When You Believe" are the reverse scenes which produce even more Tear Jerkering. Count 'em, people: A little girl guiding her Grandmother out from slavery's shadow, children racing around Ethiopian followers, a tiny girl leading giant oxen, a baby girl and her doll on Daddy's head, Moses carrying children on his back, a man lifting his infant into the air and teenage girls dancing together. Don't forget that this is the story of a rose-cheeked Hebrew baby and both God and Pharaoh kill first-borns just to prove points.
I condensed it down to this:
- In The Prince of Egypt, many Egyptian children are shown suffering as a result of the plagues being unleashed upon Egypt, to which Moses has an internal moral dilemma over.
How does this sound? Should I put the bit about the inverse happening back in, or should I leave that cut? It doesn't seem relevant to me.
Reposting because I got no response:
The description of VideoGame.Dungeon Lords is full of complaining, so much so that I don't even know how to rewrite it. Could anyone help me with that?
Before Dungeon Lords, there was a quaint little trilogy of dungeon crawlers titled Wizardry. A programmer named David W. Bradley was tapped to design three games in the series (namely, Wizardry V, VI and VII), and he essentially redesigned VI's game engine and story to give them a sci-fi feel.
Several years after Wizardry VII, Bradley formed a game development company named Heuristic Park, who developed two other games: Wizards and Warriors (no relation to Rare's game series ), and... this.
So, when the guy who breathed new life into the Wizardry series put together his own production company to create a brand new "epic Action RPG experience", one would expect nothing but good things. What happened instead was a game so broken and buggy that it sank the reputations of Bradley and his studio, and was described at the time as "a new low for how incomplete a game can be and still get released."
Version 1.0, the first commercial release of Dungeon Lords, was a disaster. Quest items would disappear from the player's inventory at random. The avatar would sink into the ground and get caught up on corners. Buttons on the character creation screen failed to work. Walking around in the wrong areas could cause the game to become Unintentionally Unwinnable.
Gradually, Heuristic park patched Dungeon Lords up to version 1.5, which fixed many of the bugs and expanded the adventure to include multiple side quests and enhanced character creation options. This "Collector's Edition" release was now technically playable, but by this time, Dungeon Lords was already a critical and commercial failure. Worse yet, there was no way for players to patch their game up to the more functional version, so those early adopters essentially had to buy the same game twice.
Rather than list what went wrong with it, it's easier to describe the good things in this game. The character progression system is point- and level-based, meaning a wizard can buy wizard skills cheaper than armour skills but still get both—in practice, this means that characters become do-it-all übermenschen with ridiculous powersets by mid-game. Combat is action based, with shield blocking and tactical movement being as important as stat growth, and the dungeons are immersive and interesting.