Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?
Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?
Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?
Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.
Useful Tips:
- Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
- Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
- Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
- Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
- Wrong: Badass Adorable
- Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
- When is normally far less important than How.
- A character name is not an explanation.
- Wrong: Full Moon Silhouette: Diana
- Right: Full Moon Silhouette: At the end of her transformation sequence into Moon Princess Misty, Diana is shown flying across the full moon riding a rutabaga.
Other Resources:
For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.
Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here
) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads.
For cleaning up examples of Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, you must use their dedicated threads: Complete Monster Cleanup, Magnificent Bastard Cleanup.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 18th 2023 at 11:42:55 AM
No, the other one.
Being a Wrench Wench is usually a tomboyish trait. However, if driving and maintaining tanks is a feminine activity within that work, then it's not a tomboyish trait, and would need some other context that actually explains how the character fits.
Check out my fanfiction!
Lost in Space
Especially: if all of the primary characters are tank drivers and/or competent mechanics, and that's an established norm within the 'verse that the work portrays, then one of the core concepts of the Wrench Wench is lost: that of a woman competing in a male-dominated field.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
So probably not an example. I went ahead and pulled it.
edited 26th Oct '16 11:14:52 AM by sgamer82
I dont know, she is definitely the standout of the automotive club being pretty hotblooded, the only member with the harsher Tsurime Eyes. The only one of them that flaunts the tank top shirt,
◊ everyone else on the team has a the usual mechanic uniform
◊.
Its definitely trying to at minimum invoke the Michelle Rodriguez in The Fast and the Furious
◊ style of tomboy look.
edited 26th Oct '16 12:40:55 PM by Memers
Lost in Space
Standing out is a plus. But she has to be "the girl" trying to be "the guy" for the trope to apply. It's based on defying stereotypes.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
And in this case being "the guy" is being "the girl"
Well she is the self proclaimed "#1 Fastest Girl of Ooarai", the tank's gunner and occasional driver, and likes attempting to drift tanks. She definitely is a borderline The Lad-ette but not quite there.
The crew itself is more 'manly' than the rest of the cast. Being the only ones who are not driving tanks in skirts and the group has her, a Hard-Drinking Party Girl, and a girl who is absolutely unfazed by anything including being in a tank that is literally on fire.
Really it is the trope they were attempting to go for in the work.
edited 26th Oct '16 1:10:09 PM by Memers
My main issue has been that, while all of the above is true to my recollection, a lot of their actions and hobbies relate to tankery, which is presented as feminine in this setting. So while they may be tomboys to us, within the setting they're as girly as the boy-crazy Saori or the classically Yamato Nadeshiko Hana.
The trope page even had a note in Deliberate Values Dissonance which says the characters comment on how strange it would be for boys to be interested in tanks. In that respect, a boy tanker would be In Touch with His Feminine Side even though to us it wouldn't seem that way.
Maybe it could be called played with due to that.
edited 26th Oct '16 1:15:34 PM by sgamer82
So what's weird for me is that the tank top is in a lot of ways a more feminizing aspect for this girl than tomboy-ish since it's more feminine looking than the mechanic suits of the rest of the crew.
... but the mechanic suits are tied to the feminine hobby, thus would be as feminine as a women's archery outfit.
Honestly, I'd say it's just way too zigzagged to count one way or the other.
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Which is what inclines me towards Not an Example or Played With. It could be played with as she fulfills the superficial aspects of the trope, but the trope itself isn't actually play since she's, within the setting, not technically a tomboy.
edited 26th Oct '16 1:52:51 PM by sgamer82
The Dark Lord of Hawaiian Shirts
Hello. Is this a allowed subversion of the Sins of Our Fathers trope?
Planescape: Torment: The Nameless One is an immortal that loses his memories as if he's reborn everytime he dies. The father in this case is the first incarnation that committed a unknown crime so heinous that there was no chance of redemption. In the end, it doesn't matter if you've been playing as Planescape Jesus the entire game, as you will be Dragged Off to Hell for what your first incarnation did when you ends your immortality.
Srg. Dornan: Troper, what are you doing here?! Get back to your post!!!
It is played with in a 'Short Tank in a group of full on tomboys playing a girly sport' way but not really much more than that. It is very out of place and stands out. She hits all the notes and more out of place because of it.
Reposting these from the previous pages so they don't get lost:
- "Funny Aneurysm" Moment: One of the lyrics of the song that plays in the dance scene is "work your fingers to the bone". Later when Caleb watches the video Jade banging her arms on the door, her fingers are the first to disintegrate. Additionally, her arms worked to the bone.
- Narm: Hazel's infinity quotenote might lose its impact and become laughable when you learn that it's mathematically incorrect. While some infinities are bigger than other infinities - the set of all rational numbers is for instance smaller than the set of all real numbers - the intervals [0, 1], [0, 2] and [0, 1000000] actually contain the same amount of real numbers.
Need a second opinion on these examples on Boobs Of Steel to avoid an edit war. They all look like shoehorning to me.
- Starfire and Troia are the physically strongest members of the Teen Titans, with the former being a clear example of the trope, while Donna has a decent but not so prominent bust size.
- Wonder Woman who was once stated to have the second largest bust in the entire DCU after Power Girl.
- Felicia Hardy aka the Black Cat who is the one girlfriend of Spider-Man who is an Action Girl.
- Agent Peggy Carter relies on brute force more than finesse and technique, unlike the other Action Girls of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and is strong enough to end up constantly knocking out the people she's interrogating. And she's... well, she's Hayley Atwell◊.
She/Her | inactive for now
I'll ask again: is this an example of Principles Zealot?
The Fault In Our Stars is more Fridge Logic than anything else. And "Funny Aneurysm" Moment is a tremendous shoehorn. There's no joke, just (likely intentional) symbolism in the song. Might be Harsher in Hindsight, though.
Sounds like Starfire would count. And Wonder Woman definitely counts. Writeup is weak, though.
Black Cat is a shoehorn. Her forte is in her agility, not her power.
Is Agent Carter that much of a bruiser? I know most (non-Asgardian) females in the MCU don't have super-strength, but I honestly can't remember any scenes where either her bust or her strength are emphasized that much. I could have missed them, though.
It depends on if she's trying to get him killed specifically so she doesn't have to teach him. If so, then yes, she's a Principles Zealot. If it's coincidental, then no.
edited 31st Oct '16 7:54:42 AM by Larkmarn
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
This trope is the strongest and bustiest female character in a group or cast so the Starfire example isn't going to work if Troia is as strong as her (I think she's actually stronger than Starfire).
Wonder Woman not gonna work since both Supergirl and Powergirl who has also part of the DCU have her beat in the strength and breasts department.
Black Cat is just a shoehorn.
Agent Carter is definitely not the strongest or even bustiest (probably Black Widow) heroine in the MCU.
edited 31st Oct '16 12:12:08 PM by captainpat
Why do we even have that page?
I'm not against someone trying to cut that trope. It is annoyingly misused frequently.
Quite a few works equate boobs to muscle thus the bigger you are the more powerful you are. While in reality it is extremely likely to be the opposite of that.
It's a unrealistic trope but prevalent in various degrees in drawn works where complete creative control is on the author. When you get that strong and that fit you are not going to be rocking G cups of bounciness.
edited 31st Oct '16 11:24:10 PM by Memers
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Long ago, I've proposed that Boobs Of Steel should be reworked so that it's not about "woman with biggest boobs is strongest", but rather either when the work correlates breast size with combat power across multiple characters, or when the breasts themselves are depicted as physically powerful as if they're made of steel rather than flesh note .
edited 1st Nov '16 2:54:05 AM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Genre Savvy: Tanya sees her father, seemingly back from the dead. She doesn't buy it for a second.
is it a good example?
Umm never seen the series but context would be needed. It would need to be something like 'wait a minute that doesn't work in these types of stories, something is wrong' or 'it's an illusion it's always an illusion' to be genre savvy.
If not then it's probably more O.O.C. Is Serious Business since not being dead is out of character for a dead guy. Also potentially Spotting the Thread.
edited 1st Nov '16 5:17:02 AM by Memers
"Yo Smithy!"
I asked on ATT about creating a Broken Base page for Pokémon due to the sheer amount of examples listed on BrokenBase.Video Games. High Crate suggested I take it to a discussion page or this thread to see how many are legit examples and how much is just whining, and we all know that nobody uses Discussion pages.
Beware, as this is about Broken Bases, there is a lot of complaining.
- You don't have to look hard at all to find a generation war. The most popular ones include:
- Generation 1 vs. 2-6: Dubbed the "genwunners", these types of Pokémon fans refuse to acknowledge any part of the Pokémon franchise after the first generation, almost exclusively due to childhood nostalgia. The phrase "There are only 151 real Pokémon" is often used, both seriously and satirically.
- Generations 2-6 vs. Generation 1: Because of the "genwunners", there are now many fans who are sick of the first generation and refuse to acknowledge it, often bashing the arguably dated designs of the earliest Pokémon.
- Generation 1-2 vs. 3-6: Some count the second generation along with the first one as being "real" but still refuse to enjoy any generations released afterwards. They're often lumped in with the "genwunners" as a result.
- Generations 5-6 vs Generations 1-4: Some fans exclude everything before the fifth generation, preferring only the newest Pokémon (some will count Generation 4 though).
- Generations 1-5 vs. Generation 6: Some fans dislike and refuse to acknowledge the sixth generation for two main reasons: the introduction of the "Fairy" type and Mega Evolutions.
- There are many others; "Generations 1-2 and 5-6 vs. Generations 3-4", "Generations 1-4 vs. 5-6", "Generations 1-3 vs. 4-6", "Generations 2-4 vs. Generation 1 and 5-6", "Generations 1-3 and 6 vs. Generations 4-5" and so on. Pokémon has gone through so many changes throughout its history that it's difficult to find fans that fully accept every generation in the franchise.
- Another break happened when Pokémon X and Y were announced. Half the fans were rejoicing, while ther other half were angry that Game Freak had skipped to Generation VI instead of releasing Ruby And Sapphire remakes. Once the remakes finally came out, the fanbase split into two additional groups: Those that think the remakes are just as strong as they should be, and those that see the remakes as unnecessary and lacking in anything new.
- Added to that is the split over whether making the new generation a 3DS game was good, or whether it made it out of reach for fans who can't yet afford the new handheld.
- And of course, still more design wars are cropping up over the Gen VI starters, just like all the generations. Also, the smaller number of new Pokémon in Generation VI has started debates over whether Game Freak has run dry of ideas or not.
- Mega Mewtwo Y. Is it something to spice up an old favorite, or disrespectful to peoples' childhoods? And what is it with the tail on its head?
- Pokémon X and Y also introduced the all new Fairy-type, explicitly to balance the increasingly overpowered Dragon-type. Opinions of this type vary wildly:
- There are the purists, who hate that a new type is being added at all, as it shatters years of continuity (for the most part, disliking the type for this reason is understandable, considering how complex the franchise is).
- There are people who like the Fairy-type and consider it a much-needed addition to the franchise.
- There are people who would be fine with a new type but think the Fairy-type sounds stupid.
- There are people who are fine with the Fairy-type but don't think it should be effective against Dragon-types (mainly hardcore Dragon-type fans who are upset that their favourite type is now only weaker).
- And, finally, there are those who feel the type has utterly ruined others, lamenting the fact that now Ice-type Pokémon are rendered almost useless, since that type possess mostly slow Pokémon and harbor no less than 4 weaknesses against very common types, including the Rock-type (including the Stealth Rock move mentioned above), only resist its own type, and was mostly use to counter Dragon-type Pokémon. Now that the Fairy-type is here and can do the job far better, there is very little reason to use Ice-type Pokémon in X/Y. It also greatly weakened the already weak Dark-type, giving it three weaknesses and two strengths, and also weakened the Bug-type, another weak type (the already-weak Grass-type was also not improved in Generation 6). It also gave the Fire-type another resistance, and since this type is strong against Ice, Bug and Grass, those types are now even weaker. And, after going through such lengths to make Dragon-types weaker, Mega Garchomp was introduced.
- This happened again with the Hoenn remakes, which features yet more Mega Evolutions, considered unnecessary to fans of the original Hoenn games.
- Arguments over Lyra having replaced Kris (or even if it's a replacement instead of a redesign) in the Gold and Silver remakes, HeartGold and SoulSilver.
- The overlap between Pokémon fans and furries is causing a growing divide in itself. The existence of Pokemon anthros, known as Pokemorphsnote , just makes both halves of the debate worse, to the point on one end of the divide one of the most famous Pokemon fanfics is an intentional Deconstruction of Pokemorph fics.
- Super Smash Bros. Brawl caused a fairly nasty uproar for awhile between Pokémon fans over the cut of Mewtwo and his 'replacement' with Lucario. For several months after Brawl's release, Mewtwo fans and Lucario fans had an extended Flame War. One side claimed that the replacement was 'concrete proof' of Lucario being 'superior' to Mewtwo, while the other side made remarks about Mewtwo's in game stats and movie powers. Plenty of rather violent and/or squicky hate art was created before everything calmed down.
- Pick a Pokémon sidegame. Any Pokémon sidegame, but especially any that was made after the 90s. Some are still more popular or at least well regarded than the others (Pokémon Snap, the Orre duology, Pokémon Mystery Dungeon, Pokémon Conquest) but the Broken Base is still very much there in force for all of them (except possibly Pokemon Snap; as mentioned earlier it was made in the nineties, and even without that taken into account it's been Vindicated by History enough there's wide demand for a sequel - especially with the gameplay potential unleashed by all the new Pokemon introduced since its debut).
- There's potentially one brewing between people who'd like to see some sort of noticeably distinct change to the plot mechanism and/or battle mechanics (it doesn't help that Masuda said that he thinks that sufficiently new ideas ought to go in a completely distinct series) and those who think you shouldn't fix what isn't broken. Suffice to say that in the former camp, the keeping-to-the-old looks like embracing weardown from age...
- Sometimes debates can exist between fans of two different Pokemon species for whatever reason:
- The Arceus vs. Mew debate. Some fans argue that, in canon, Mew is the original ancestor of all Pokémon (as it contains the DNA of all Pokémon), while other fans put Arceus at the top of the pinnacle as the absolute progenitor of all Pokémon (as its mythos describes it creating the universe itself). Some go the opposite way and say that Arceus created Mew first, and then used her/it to create every other Pokémon, or all other Pokémon developed from Mew via Darwinian evolution; another compromise, though there are some who disagree with this too, of course.
- There's also a Fandom Rivalry between fans of Flygon (an antlion that is somehow a dragon) and Garchomp (a land shark... that is also somehow a dragon.) Flygon fans viciously and relentlessly bash Garchomp for being overrated, overpowered, outclassing Flygon in every way, having an ugly and overcomplicated design, and getting "special treatment" from Game Freak while Flygon's been left in the dust since the generation of its debut, especially after Garchomp got a Mega Evolution and Flygon didn'tnote . Garchomp fans just want Flygon fans to stop complaining and leave them and their landshark be, are just as prone to playing the "overrated" card as their opposition, and sometimes claim they and their Pokemon of choice are the real underdogs fandom-wise (the last two being fueled by the fact people who prefer Flygon actually seem to outnumber them by a good margin).
- The exact same situation exists between fans of Scyther and Scizor as Flygon and Garchomp for the exact same reasons. The irony? Scizor is Scyther's ''evolution.
- With every new generation comes claims from some long-time "fans" that the new Pokémon are "lame" and "unoriginal", and that the 'mons before them are far superior. Normally, the "fans" who complain when a new generation comes out are the ones who complained when the previous generation came out, and all complaints about said previous gen are instantly forgotten. note
- There is also a divide between Pokémon designs in general. Many players will only use Pokémon that they consider to have a close resemblance to actual animals or fantasy creatures whilst denouncing all others as either ugly, filler, or both. Then there are the people who consider the animal-esque Pokémon boring and overused, and instead use Pokémon with more surreal or humorous designs. And finally, there are the people who appreciate all (or almost all) Pokémon designs, use both animal-esque and surreal Pokémon, and consider the design divide ridiculous and childish.
- The moment Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 were announced, some fans complained that we're getting a direct sequel, even though this had never happened before in the main series. When Black Kyurem and White Kyurem were revealed, some fans complained that Pokémon has resorted to Fusion Dance. This was at the point where there was no public knowledge of the games other than their titles and that the Kyurem forms are in them. That being said, the ones complaining were most often the ones who already disliked Pokémon Black and White to begin with, so there was no additional breaking of the base here.
- The revelation that the Striaton Trio isn't the Shadow Triad really rustled up the fanbase. Many felt it was a last minute cop out with the hints toward it in the previous game, the random scene where the two groups meet, and the concept art showing the Triad's hair looking surprisingly like the brothers.
- Many fans were also upset about the revelation of N's full backstory. Some were also find the climax underwhelming compared to the previous games or were disappointed that N didn't really have as much impact on the plot as one might expect.
- There is a deep division over whether using Action Replay / Game Shark is okay or not. One faction loves getting everything possible out of the games, even if it takes cheat codes, while the other views anything not possible in game as it was designed as tantamount to a terrible crime.
- Then there's the divide between competitive gamers and casual gamers. It isn't as bad as it seems as most competitive gamers also play casually, and the vast majority of people on both sides just kinda wanna have fun playing the game their own way, but there's enough dicks on either side (competitive gamers who are insistent that it makes them smarter to play the game this way, regarding casual gamers as incompetent noobs and "not real fans", and casual gamers who treat competitive gamers as though they're abusing real animals instead of game data and then hypocritically scorn competitive gamers for taking the game 'too seriously' as though wanting to know deeply about something makes it impossible to enjoy it) to make it a touchy subject at times.
- Within competitive gaming: should you raise the Pokémon yourself (an extremely time-intensive process that also guarantees minimal team variability) or just plug in your choices to a battle emulator? What counts as 'cheap'? Are rain teams broken?
- In a different direction, the fanbase for Pokémon had already been broken right from Day 1. Fans of the video games, of the anime, and of the Trading Card Game are largely separate. Chances are if someone says they're a fan of Pokémon, they're only a fan of one of the above and range between a passing interest to vile disgust at the other two.
- The use of legendaries in-game is also something of a divider. They're already relegated to the Uber tier in competitive battling, and banned in battle frontiers/subways/towers/whatever, but players still disagree over whether it's okay to use legendaries during the storyline to make it easier or if it just makes it way too easy. Then of course there's player vs player wireless play outside the Smogon rules, where some will use them and some won't.
- Stealth Rock, a controversial Gen IV attack which entire teams are built around surviving. Some say it shouldn't be allowed, claiming that it's a cheap, overly powerful attack which makes a lot of Pokémon virtually useless. Others say it should, claiming that there are enough ways around it and that it keeps excessively powerful or popular monsters in check. That one move can make or break a verdict on a Pokémon, a rule set, or an entire generation. It's that contested. Related to this is Charizard, a very popular Pokémon which has been a denizen of the bottom tiers since Gen IV, largely due to its tremendous aversion to Stealth Rock. Charizard fans and Stealth Rock supporters generally don't get on.
- With the revelation of Mega Evolutions, the fandom became broken once more. The main complaint is about how this approaches Pokémon to Digimon mechanics ("Mega" is the most powerful level of a Digimon), and how it will probably turn already powerful Pokémon like Blaziken and Garchomp into complete game breakers. There are also some people who consider some of the Mega Evolution designs to be overly grotesque and strange, favouring the original fully-evolved forms.
- A seldom-seen but vocal group are the people who dislike the localization of the names of Pokémon, characters, and places. They'd rather all international versions retain the Japanese names for everything. This, of course, doesn't sit well with the people who were introduced to Pokémon via names in their country's language or otherwise prefer their own country's localization over the original Japanese versions.
- Character redesigns in the remakes (especially concerning Team Aqua, Brendan, and Red). Some fans prefer the redesigns, others prefer the originals and hate the remake versions, while others like both.
- Which types should get Eeveelutions? Should every type get an Eeveelution or not?
- Pokémon Speak has become controversial. Many fans can't imagine Pokemon speaking any other way while others think it's annoying, too cartoony, or just something that should remain in adaptations.
- Is Alolan Raichu the attention Raichu fans have been waiting for, or is it the final nail in the coffin for Raichu now that it probably will probably never get a mega now?
edited 1st Nov '16 6:54:12 AM by MegaMarioMan
"Come on! Let's get this show on the road."
I have a question about this entry in Tank-Top Tomboy:
While lacking in context a little, easily resolved by noting the character seen in a tank top and/or coveralls rather than the actual uniform of the school or tankery team, my concern is more the fact that in the setting of Girls und Panzer, driving and maintaining tanks (which is what the Automotive Club does) is considered a feminine activity. That in mind, does this count as a subversion, playing with, or just plain not an example.
edited 26th Oct '16 10:24:38 AM by sgamer82