During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Probably more out. Their. I recommended one for acw which may give him a bathory. Their a goldmine.
Edited by miraculous on Nov 27th 2020 at 11:07:53 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Menliff.
I'm going with a sure to Kurt, weird as that movie was. I endorse 43's Phasma rewrite!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Please remind me which one that was again? I forgot.
Edited by ACW on Nov 27th 2020 at 2:12:10 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Phasma rewrite. As for Pryde he certainly has the potential to count one day, but only time will tell.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Potholed Phasma:
- Phasma through The Last Jedi note : Phasma engineered her own family's deaths as part of a cover story to join their rival tribe and later ingratiate herself to the First Order, whom she later aided in the destruction of her home planet. Indoctrinating recruits for the First Order as a Captain in their ranks, Phasma happily assisted in their massacres and war crimes as well. Painfully murdering her former superior Brendol Hux, Phasma also attempted to poison and kill a kindhearted stormtrooper and ruthlessly tried to kill any who knew of her past, including her own young niece. Selling out the codes of the Starkiller Base to save herself from the heroes, Phasma sacrifices loyal soldiers to ease her own escape and later murders a survivor who knew of her treachery, inciting a war between local species on a planet to eliminate them. Afterwards, Phasma kills the TIE pilot who had helped her just to tie up loose ends and when she encounters former-First Order member Finn, tries to torture him to death instead of going for a quick kill to draw out his suffering. A coward who will betray and murder anyone to live a bit longer, Phasma sets the standard for ruthless evil in the First Order, with nobody safe from her cruelty.
Loki and Menliff.
Appreciated Lighty, again you did a great job with it so it was quite easy to just shorten what was already an excellently detailed entry 
Regarding Freaky, I haven't been able to watch it with the nearest movie theatre being a two hour drive from where I live. I guess I can try to rent it on Youtube, like I did The Craft: Legacy, but it may take a day or two.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Goku Black
Uh its fine. I know that people aren't super keen with go ing out because of current events so I don't think anyone will mind with a wait.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
to Loki and Kurt
Loki and Kurt
Does we have some Marvel version of Loki?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
We have two adaptations of the comic version that keep. One Anime and one cartoon.
Edited by Bullman on Nov 27th 2020 at 2:51:26 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
to Loki and Kurt Menliff.
Loki and Kurt
RIP Toriyama
Definite 'Yes' to Loki and Kurt, as well as the Phasma rewrite, great job, there!
Alright, seeing as I just watched this one and am discussing it over on MB? I wanna discuss this entry:
- The Gentlemen: Dry Eye is an enforcer in the Chinese mob. Introduced receiving humans to traffic for Lord George, Dry Eye gives a veiled threat to the seller when he does not have the money to pay him. The crime syndicate Dry Eye works for distributes heroin, which leads to the fatal overdosing of the teenager Laura Pressfield. Dry Eye helps Matthew Berger to try to undermine Mickey Pearson's own cannabis business for a lower price, but threatens him when he decides he wants it only for himself instead. Dry Eye then has Lord George killed when he confronts him about his betrayal and then later threatens and attempts to rape Mickey's wife Rosalind when she fights back. Despite mob violence from others as well, Dry Eye is the coldest and most uncaring by comparison.
Yea, uhhhhhh I don't think Dry Eye hits this trope.
Breaking down the write-up? The trafficked slaves bit has a grand total of like 20 seconds of screentime with zero discussion on what happens to them, and it's Lord George's doing anyway. Same with the heroin, Dry Eye being part of the organization that makes the heroin does not mean Laura's death was his fault, in fact Lord George is explicitly pointed to as the guilty party, there.
What's this leave for ol' Dry Eye? Threatening a security guard's family for trying to bribe him, killing his boss (who came within a breath of killing Dry Eye himself), and trying to rape Rosalind—who had just shot and killed two of Dry Eye's associates and was an enemy of his, mind.
It's a barebones rapsheet, and throw in that this movie has:
- Russian gangsters who hope to kill Mickey and several of his associates
- A gang of thugs who drug a man and coerce him into having sex with a pig then blackmail him with it
- Mickey who forces an enemy to cut off a literal pound of flesh from his own body or die
And yeah, Dry Eye's attempted rape is the literal only unique thing in the film, made further murkier by the forced bestiality perpetrates by other criminals. I don't think Dry Eye makes it, maybe in a vacuum and if more responsibility were put on his shoulders and more meat was given to the trafficking parts, but as is? I'm suggesting he be put on the chopping block.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Been wanting to do this for a while, hope this works
What is the Work?
Codex Equus is an ongoing collaborative fanfiction project that takes place in the world of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, but with a Worldbuilding twist. It is authored by BrutalityInc of Equestria: Across the Multiverse fame and Kendell2 (known as Godzillawolf) of the Pony POV Series fame, as well as many other writers.
The purpose of Codex Equus is to expand on Friendship is Magic as well as the previous "generations" of My Little Pony but give them a dose of Reality Ensues. Thus, the project deconstructs, subverts, reconstructs, and plays with several tropes to make both the setting and certain things more believable. For example, there are more to Changelingkind in general than just Chrysalis and her hive, and the various threats that the Mane Six face are just a drop of water in the bucket compared to other things such as "Fallen" deities, Eldritch Abominations, and brutal and domineering Giants.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Grey Hoof is an Earth Pony stallion who was born in Sunnytown, which is now a cursed, zombie-infested ruin in the middle of the Everfree Forest. Before Sunnytown's fall, he was the town's main party-planner and a very talented pony with multiple skills to boast of, like carpentry and baking. He was very charismatic and popular, and everyone loved him... but he was also a psychologically insidious stallion who influenced his neighbors and friends to believe that gaining Cutie Marks would 'infect' Ponies with Cutie Pox, which devastated Sunnytown years before.
Among the things he did was exploiting Starlet's Mortality Phobia to make her side with him, psychologically manipulate his foalhood friend Three Leaf into being fanatically devoted to him (as well as murdering Three Leaf's adoptive mother in secret and lying to her about it for centuries) and preying on a sheltered, naive Roneo.
One day, during an anniversary party he threw to celebrate Sunnytown's survival, Grey Hoof learned that a young filly named Ruby Heart earned her Cutie Mark by finding a gift Roneo wanted to give to his girlfriend Starlet, but ended up misplacing it. Grey Hoof whipped the town into a lynch mob, and had Ruby Heart burned to death in her family's own fireplace, without actually checking to see if she was infected or not. Ruby Heart's family, including her older sister Mitta, tried saving her, but were talked by Grey Hoof into doing nothing, with a veiled threat that they'll be killed, too, if they continue resisting.
The Trickster God Pakak, who was attending the party in a mortal disguise, was enraged with what the Sunnytowners had done and cursed everyone with zombification, including those who had small involvement in Ruby Heart's murder. The curse would repeat the day of the party year by year, with the only way to escape being to acknowledge their wrongdoing and protect a magical simulation of Ruby Heart instead; otherwise the cycle will just repeat. The curse also establishes a magical perimeter that prevents the Sunnytowners from leaving their ruined home.
Grey Hoof's sanity went down the crapper after that, and he turned his fellow zombies in what Mitta called a "Cutie Pox cult". Using their cursed states, Grey Hoof and his followers hunted down and murdered any unlucky Pony who had a Cutie Mark under the delusion that they're 'protecting' them. However, not everyone's on board - Gladstone, Roneo's older brother, forced himself to participate so Roneo wouldn't have to do it, and repressed his feelings with a stoic facade. Meanwhile, Mitta and her parents were kept imprisoned and psychologically/emotionally abused so they would be too submissive to interfere. This combined with losing her sister turned Mitta into a broken wreck who blamed herself for not saving Ruby Heart and lamented how her sister's death happens every year.
This sets up the events of Story of the Blanks when a young, pre-Cutie Mark Apple Bloom wanders into Sunnytown on the day of its curse repeating, and discovers Ruby Heart's charred bones in the fireplace of her old house. Their secret exposed, Grey Hoof and the Sunnytowners pursued her, finally snapping Mitta out of her funk and saving Apple Bloom by unleashing her plant magic on the zombies. Things go downhill afterwards, culminating in Grey Hoof forcing Roneo to kill a Pony colt by threatening his loved ones, which only gets him decked in the face. This made Starlet realize that even she wasn't 'safe' with Grey Hoof, and around the same time, Three Leaf learned the truth about her adoptive mother's fate and cut off ties with Grey Hoof despite his abuse and threats.
Mitta and Ruby Heart would help the repentant Sunnytowners atone for their sins and break free of Pakak's curse. But Grey Hoof's influence was so powerful that all of them were extremely traumatized by their experiences, requiring the intervention of various benevolent deities to help them recover (including one Blue Suede Heartstrings, who is rumored In-Universe to be Roneo and Gladstone's divine ancestor). In Three Leaf's case, she had to have her friendship bond severed by Blue Suede, who is an Alicorn god of Philia Love, because Grey Hoof's influence still affected her despite her leaving him.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Unlike Grey Hoof from Story of the Blanks, Grey Hoof in Codex Equus is given a backstory that fleshes out his personality and explains why he made his choices in the game.
When he was a colt, Grey Hoof lost his parents to a Cutie Pox pandemic that ravaged Sunnytown, reducing its population to a (presumably) relatively small number. He was taken in by relatives who raised him as best as they could, and he had a foalhood friend in Three Leaf, a fellow orphan who bonded with him over their shared sense of loss. However, learning about his parents' deaths at an older age planted the seeds of fear, and over time that fear evolved into full-blown, irrational paranoia. He would literally do anything to prevent another Cutie Pox pandemic from occurring, even if 'anything' involved murdering young foals like Ruby Heart or Apple Bloom.
Being cursed with zombification by Pakak didn't make Grey Hoof snap out of it and realize he was wrong; it instead worsened his paranoia to the point of becoming completely insane. He did have Three Leaf, who was his foalhood friend, but it didn't prevent him from becoming a villain, and his growing insanity influenced him to psychologically manipulate and abuse her into becoming his wiling follower. Even after centuries of having the curse repeat again and again, he still believed he was in the right while those who decried his actions were in the wrong. Even Ruby Heart, who forgave him and tried her best to redeem him, admitted she eventually gave up on Grey Hoof because he wouldn't change.
Pakak himself also acknowledges that suffering from a Cutie Mark-related illness, and losing loved ones to it, is a very legitimate fear. But he also points out that however justified their reasons are, it still doesn't excuse Grey Hoof's monstrous actions. And with his unrepentance and stubborn refusal to change, Grey Hoof is extremely likely to stay trapped in Sunnytown, possibly for eternity thanks to Pakak's curse rendering all those affected by it biologically immortal unless they atone for their sins.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Compared to other villains of the setting, many who wield great power and/or are Fallen deities, Grey Hoof seemingly doesn’t have much to offer, since he’s just a cursed zombie. However, it's acknowledged that he is still a credible threat regardless. While the Cutie Pox that ravaged Sunnytown traumatized everyone, Grey Hoof managed to do far more damage with his insane delusions, his paranoia, and irrational hatred of Cutie Marks.
Many Sunnytowners who escaped remained psychologically broken for a long time because of Grey Hoof, and they only managed to make significant progress in their recovery through divine intervention. Apple Bloom, who was nearly killed by Grey Hoof, was similarly traumatized by her experience, with her older sister Applejack threatening to "apple-buck" Grey Hoof seven ways if he comes after Apple Bloom again. Even worse, Ponyville is located right next to the Everfree Forest where Sunnytown is, which leaves many foals at risk of wandering into Everfree unsupervised.
Thankfully, with Mitta establishing herself as a guardian of Everfree, Ponies (especially those with young children in their families) can rest more easily.
Final Verdict?
With his insanity and murderous fanaticism, Codex Equus!Grey Hoof certainly counts as a Complete Monster, seeing that he refused to change even when punished/confronted with evidence of his sins.
Edited by Randomfan11 on Nov 27th 2020 at 1:35:01 AM
Goku Black
Cut dry eye.
I abstained when he went up but I always had my doubts on him.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Showtime!
Cut Dry Eye
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Grey Hoof, i think his desire to keep his town uninfected is genuine no matter how awful he is about it
Great catch there Ravok, fully endorse the cut!
No to Grey Hoof. Cut Dry Eye.
Hmm, that's fair. It's my first time posting in this thread so maybe I'll find another character from the same works who qualifies better
@Ravok I wish I’d been alerted to this beforehand.
My argument as to why Dry Eye counted was his villainy was unique and I laid out the arguments about him being involved in the things Lord George did being enough to highlight him based on those elements. The thread agreed with me earlier this year.
@DoodSlayer Ha! Certainly not. Loki is behind Jolly, Jacobs, Apocalypta and Johnny, India, Aneh-Tet, Richard, Josef Mengele, and Jack Carter.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Nov 27th 2020 at 4:08:30 PM