During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I've said to cut Tommyrod multiple times now
And...done.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsNow that both Fallens have been taken care off, anyone want to discuss how we're going to deal with all the Unicrons?
Feed them to Galactus?
Do they take up too much space? Otherwise they could have their own separate folder.
Wait, before we do that, what do we wanna do about this franchise-wide Fallen entry?
- Megatronus Prime is known to all and sundry as The Fallen. If Unicron is the Ultimate Evil, than The Fallen is his Archangel Lucifer, and like his master, exists as a single, dimension-spanning being who exists across all continuities simultaneously. Created by Primus as one of the original Thirteen Primes, The Fallen became obsessed with the notions of entropy and decay, ultimately attempting to murder his creator after betraying him to Unicron. Escaping the prison he was trapped in some seven million years before the 21st century, The Fallen visited the G1 continuity, gathered several Decepticon outcasts and kidnapped four Transformers, through which he tried to channel enough energy to break the Seal of Primus, awaken Unicron, and end all reality, boasting that his victims were but "casualties in the wars of the Gods." Sharing his master's unique nature, and his unquenchable thirst for destruction, The Fallen is precisely the kind of servant that Unicron most needs.
Gah, don't know how I missed that. Fixed, and thanks.
edited 16th Apr '16 10:44:20 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsYou misspelled the first "Decepticon" in the Revenge of the Fallen entry.
Now known as Cyber ControllerActually, we can turn that into The Fallen's G1 Transformers entry. Just delete every mention of the other universes he visited.
edited 16th Apr '16 10:46:03 AM by VeryMelon
Like so?
- Megatronus Prime is known to all and sundry as The Fallen. If Unicron is the Ultimate Evil, than The Fallen is his Archangel Lucifer, and like his master, exists as a single, dimension-spanning being who exists across all continuities simultaneously. Created by Primus as one of the original Thirteen Primes, The Fallen became obsessed with the notions of entropy and decay, ultimately attempting to murder his creator after betraying him to Unicron. Escaping the prison he was trapped in some seven million years before the 21st century, The Fallen visited the G1 continuity, gathered several Decepticon outcasts and kidnapped four Transformers, through which he tried to channel enough energy to break the Seal of Primus, awaken Unicron, and end all reality, boasting that his victims were but "casualties in the wars of the Gods." Sharing his master's unique nature, and his unquenchable thirst for destruction, The Fallen is precisely the kind of servant that Unicron most needs.
- Megatronus Prime is known to all and sundry as The Fallen. If Unicron is the Ultimate Evil, than The Fallen is his Archangel Lucifer. Created by Primus as one of the original Thirteen Primes, The Fallen became obsessed with the notions of entropy and decay, ultimately attempting to murder his creator after betraying him to Unicron. Escaping the prison he was trapped in some seven million years before the 21st century, The Fallen visited the G1 continuity, gathered several Decepticon outcasts and kidnapped four Transformers, through which he tried to channel enough energy to break the Seal of Primus, awaken Unicron, and end all reality, boasting that his victims were but "casualties in the wars of the Gods." Sharing his master's unquenchable thirst for destruction, The Fallen is precisely the kind of servant that Unicron most needs.
Like this.
edited 16th Apr '16 10:46:52 AM by VeryMelon
Cool. Please add here wherever it goes (though honestly, THAT version of The Fallen doesn't sound too bad, relatively).
Never mind that not sounding too bad; he DID try to destroy everything it seems
edited 16th Apr '16 10:53:49 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsAdded it to the sandbox, and renamed "Franchise wide" to "Transformers: Generation 1".
I do want to adjust one part of the write-up, admittedly based on my rudimentary knowledge of Transformers, so I could be wrong: "If Unicron is The Anti-God, than The Fallen is the Satanic Archetype." Thoughts?
It's not needed.
What was the final tally for the film version of the Fallen? I thought several people voted him down.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.12-6.
edited 16th Apr '16 12:12:13 PM by VeryMelon
So Film!Fallen and RID!Fallen were both approved, but did we ever officially approve G1!Fallen?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsNo. I don't know a thing about G1 Transformers so I can't do an effort post on him or Unicron.
I PMd Ambar, as it seems he did the original entry way back.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsAre we in agreement to axe Sideways, by the way?
Sure, cut him.
This Sideways? How come?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsBecause it was recently confirmed that Armada Sideways and Cybertron Sideways, who's more sympathetic, are indeed supposed to be the same guy. This was up in the air for a while, due to Word of God's contradicting itself on whether Cybertron is canon to the other two and because the two Sidewayses have different Japanese names.
Got it. Done.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsI noticed someone listed the Night Slasher from Cobra as a GDV:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenericDoomsdayVillain
I don't think Night Slasher is the best defined or written villain, he has enough personality to be a CM rather then a GDV.
I really think that trope needs its own clean up effort.
Zoom from the Flash TV show is also listed as a GDV and I think one cannot make that determination till the end of the season, for now he seems more mysterious then anything, but clearly more about will be revealed about him as the season draws to close.
edited 16th Apr '16 3:41:54 PM by Overlord
edited 16th Apr '16 2:15:07 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts