Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Bye
Yeah, I don't think we need to add him yet
From Ludo was this approved? I can't find anything to show so but this guy certainly seems heinous enough
- King Simius from Broken Bride is the King of what remains of civilization After the End. Not satisfied with his power, he makes a Deal with the Devil to destroy the rest of the world in exchange for magic. He uses this dark magic to burn and boil the dead into zombies with the sole purpose of wiping out the rest of the world. When a little boy suggests fighting back against the horde, he uses this magic to Mind Rape the mayor into a Despair Event Horizon and kill himself in front of said boy. Simius is amused by this and all his other crimes, never showing remorse, and he uses his dying breaths to still try to destroy the world.
Goku Black
I think its not from the film but the song broken bride from Music.Ludo
Sounds a possible keep. Anyone want to check this song ?
Edited by miraculous on Aug 5th 2023 at 9:40:31 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Ah, checking he's listed on Monster.Music so I think he was approved
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
The Moron
Okay, War of Remnant: A RWBY Anthology got mentioned earlier, and it reminded me that a lot of the keepers need a rewrite to accommodate new things they do. The additions are in bold:
- Dr. Arthur Watts is a narcissist willing to kill anyone in the way of his enormous ego. When James Ironwood showed preference to a soldier named Nicholas Shade, Watts responded by brainwashing Shade into a Serial Killer called the Nightwalker, causing many innocent deaths, and faking his own death with an airship crash that killed his entire family. When Winter confronts Shade, Watts orders him to capture her so he can mutilate her body for James to find, but when she fixes the brainwashing first, Watts kills him to protect his identity. Later on, Watts masterminds an attack on the unveiling of the new Knights, intending to kill all the dozens of innocents inside; when the attack is a failure and the terrorists have to retreat, Watts kills them all to cover up his involvement. Later on, Watts provides Cinder Fall the virus necessary to cause the Fall of Beacon, willing to kill everyone in Vale for the sake of his misplaced vengeance; he later personally ensures Vale's fall by manipulating the Vytal Tournament, tricking Pyrrha Nikos into murdering Penny Polendina while Penny's father Pietro and girlfriend Ruby Rose are Forced to Watch. Moving on to Atlas, Watts ensures Jacques becomes the sole council member in Atlas, then takes Atlas materials to Vacuo so with the intent to completely destroy it.
- Commander Simon Blade is an Atlesian nationalist who views the citizens of Mantle as expendable. Believing himself to be Judge, Jury, and Executioner, Blade executes every person he sees committing a crime out of the belief that they're scum compared to him. Twice executing drug busts that kill everyone inside, including one person who tries to flee, Blade previously murdered Henry Marigold for stealing pharmaceuticals, sparing May so that she may spread the story from "the city that actually matters". Later on, Blade allies with Arthur Watts to sell out the unveiling of the Knights, fully willing to let everyone inside die for the sake of greed; when the attack goes wrong, Blade kills three of the terrorists personally to cover up his involvement, smiling all the while. Later on, Blade continues working with Watts to assassinates Jacques Schnee's political rivals and their families, ensuring that the latter retains sole control of Atlas and working with Jacques to spread misery and death throughout the Kingdom.
- Jacques Schnee is the CEO of the Schnee Dust Company and the leader of his own criminal empire. After manipulating his grieving wife to steal the company from her, Jacques stole her shares to ensure she would never leave him, then began regularly emotionally and physically abusing his children. Jacques immediately institutes dangerous budget cuts, leading to dangerous events like cave-ins becoming regular occurrences and leading to dozens of deaths among his workforce; his workers also commit heinous crimes like branding their workers, with Neon Katt's mother committing suicide from the trauma. Among other heinous acts, Jacques forces his daughter Weiss to witness terrorists execute his board of directors so that she'll become a racist like him; bombs the rally of a political opponent, killing dozens of innocents; buys trafficked slaves from the Crown to work in his mines; assassinates any business rivals, including Flynt Coal's father; and masterminds a terrorist attack on a mall with the White Fang, double-crossing them afterwards for the sake of stoking anti-Faunus tensions, all the while planning on running for the Council to take even more power for himself. Through assassinations, Jacques becomes the sole council member of Atlas, then gives Watts access to his resources so he can destroy Vacuo.
- Damian Void is the man responsible for the White Fang's many atrocities. Funding the Fang as a way to exterminate humanity, Damian targets the Faunus just as much as he targets humans, making no secret that he's only interested in killing as many people as possible. After ordering Roman to attack Team RWBY with the Paladin, Damian later takes Ruby hostage when he finds her in Mountain Glenn; when she refuses to talk, Damian electrocutes her until her Aura breaks, then holds a knife at her throat to make her team back off. When allied with Cinder Fall, Damian funds the Breach, intending to massacre everyone in Vale simply to kill a few of his business rivals and to satiate his endless sadism. When this fails, Damian executes his own henchman for annoying him, then goes on a killing spree across Vale, taking back what he believes is owed for the Breach's failure. Damian later joins Adam Taurus's assault on Vale by having his forces go through the streets and apartments slaughtering everyone in sight, with his men executing entire apartment buildings worth of people. It is later revealed that Damian helped corrupt his cousin Sienna into radicalizing the White Fang to begin with, and as the Belladonnas try to retake the Fang, Damian leads an assault on their home and gleefully tortures Ghira Belladonna just for more fun.
- Adam Taurus, the "Spiteful Bull", remains as sadistically petty as ever. As a terrorist that primarily targets civilian populations, Adam already has over 50 kills to his name after two attacks, racking up dozens more when he bombs a restaurant. When Winter Schnee publicly calls him a coward, Adam demands she take it back; when she doesn't, Adam seeks her home and murders her wife and infant daughter out of pure spite. When Winter arrives a moment too late, Adam briefly spares her so she'll die in pain, then sets her apartment on fire to escape in the chaos; fresh off this incident, Adam attempts to murder Ciel Soleil's team and kills her partner Dawn. Adam later orders his forces to kill everyone in sight during the fall of Vale, including other Faunus, before making his way to Beacon and personally killing students there; when he discovers Blake Belladonna in the chaos, he first rapes her with his gun — having also raped her when she was fifteen — then slices off Yang Xiao Long's arm just to further spite her for leaving him. Turning his eyes to Mistral, Adam's forces destroy an airship and kills over a hundred innocent people, then plant bombs all over Haven's campus to kill everyone there. When the plan goes wrong, Adam tries to kill everyone there, including his own men, out of spite, and when he returns to the throne room, he takes out his rage by massacring his loyal forces because he knows they won't fight back.
How do these look?
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Aug 5th 2023 at 2:24:13 PM
Not the Eye
Looks good Star.
Rewrites look good but I got to ask since this fic is still on-going and somehow manages to get an even higher heinous standard than before if anyone has to go?
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Lies and Violence!
Like the rewrites.
I got a cut for one of my own. One I'm... very, very annoyed with, but whatever. From Skulduggery Pleasant:
- The version of Lord Vile from the Leibniz Universe retains his counterpart's arrogant bloodlust and apathy towards the murders of his wife and child, while eschewing the good intentions and nobility respectively brought about by the Viddu De and Skulduggery's friendship with Valkyrie. Serving as the feared Dragon to his world's Mevolent, Vile supports his tyrannical reign by massacring countless resistance fighters, including his former friend Ghastly, and once even cuts off a man's face to use as a mask. Retaking his old title of Death Bringer, Vile masterminds the creation of the draugr plague, ravaging his world over the course of a year before finally revealing his betrayal to Mevolent by siccing his hordes on one of the last remaining cities in their universe. Fittingly obsessed with death despite how his followers insist he merely desires to end the suffering of life, Vile intends to hijack Mevolent's plan to invade another reality, continuing the slaughter across the multiverse until everyone in every universe is dead.
For background: the eponymous character is a magical skeleton detective who, years ago, had his family murdered before being tortured to death by his Arch-Enemy, Serpine. Consumed with rage, he unlocked a Superpowered Evil Side that went by the name Lord Vile, who sought to unleash his hatred at the world through unstoppable bloodlust. The line between Skulduggery and Vile has remained inconsistent and vague over the years, but the most consistent trait? Vile does not care about the deaths of his family. He was fully willing to work with Serpine, so long as it gave him better odds at unending war and suffering.
In the main universe, Vile eventually receded so the Skulduggery persona could gain control, supposedly after an epiphany that came about when he shared the same room with both Serpine, the man who killed his wife and child, and his father, the man who killed his mother. A later book, however, would retcon this by saying Vile developed good intentions along his journey—and also prophetic abilities, which told him doing all this was the best path to take to achieve his idea of peace. An even later book further retconned this, saying he was a Challenge Seeker who gave up control out of an arrogant desire to tempt fate. Which of any of these is true has ultimately been left ambiguous; I've been interpreting it as some weird combination.
In an alternate universe, however, things turned out much different. Vile stayed in control, and stayed evil, eventually creating a zombie apocalypse with the intent to turn this destruction on the multiverse. This is the guy currently listed, and who I found some issues with.
- One of his minions claims Vile is doing all this to end the suffering of life. While this is never explicitly refuted, the minion this comes from is a heavily biased source. When we see some of his other minions later, they're parroting the same rhetoric, but also cackling like madmen over the impending destruction. This came before the retcon of the main universe's Vile's good intentions/future sight, so it isn't too difficult to chalk this plan up as his usual characterization as a warmongering embodiment of death. I feel good saying this isn't redeeming.
- But then... there's this line in a much earlier book, when the alternate Vile has his universe's Serpine on the ropes in an unrelated conflict.
Then Vile hesitated. To him, this Serpine was the man who had murdered his wife and child, the man who had been responsible for turning him from Skulduggery Pleasant into Lord Vile. Valkyrie reckoned that killing such a man was bound to make anyone relish the moment.
...This goes against literally every fucking thing we know about Vile. But there are no alternative explanations for that hesitation offered; he feels satisfaction over the impending death of the man who took his family from him, and a redeeming quality is still a redeeming quality. So... very annoyed cut.
Cut Lord Vile.
I just finished reading one of the Warcraft books called Beyond the Dark Portal and I have a concern regarding one of the current Warcraft keepers called Deathwing due to a moment in the book.
At one point, Khadgar and the rest of the heroes from the Alliance encounter Deathwing's eggs and start breaking them and killing the unborn dragons. Deathwing arrives and he is really furious about it and his fury is not just about losing useful tools as his reaction shows he actually cares about them.
This is a quote which shows his reaction (keep in mind, I am translating from Bulgarian to English and this is not the original English text because I don't have it but the difference in the overall meaning shouldn't be too big):
- My children! roared the dragon, his voice sounding like fire caressing burning wood, like metal cutting bone. His anger was mixed with grief. "My children have been murdered!" He raised his tail and dropped it, and a long crack opened in the ground. "Come to me, you vile and cowardly wretches, murderers of helpless children!" Come and experience the pain and madness before it swallows you whole! Who wants to turn into ash first?
And another quote which continues his reaction:
- My children! he roared, the pain in his voice almost...almost making Khadgar feel sympathy for him. "The epitome of perfection...beautiful and helpless..."
Deathwing's words became indiscernible as he began to howl and nearly collapsed in rage and anguish. Magma dripped from his mouth and split the rock he stood on, his flapping wings swirling the air almost like a tornado. Khadgar wished he had heeded Turalyon's words. What did they imagine they could do? Oh, Light, what had he imagined-to face this monster, this ancient hideous, terrifying incarnation of wrath? How could they possibly defeat him?
"Oh, how brave you are!" Deathwing's anger turned into a sneer-less harsh, but no less deadly. "Apparently that kind of courage is required to break eggs and kill innocent children!" What a pity that you will not live to boast about your "great" deeds!
The trope page for the book also acknowledges this moment:
- Even Evil Has Loved Ones: Deathwing takes the mass killing of his children very badly.
- Papa Wolf: Deathwing goes absolutely berserk after his eggs were smashed and his children slaughtered by the Alliance and Gruul. He attacks Gruul, and the horrified Alliance realizes the only reason the gronn isn't dead is because Deathwing was toying with him.
I would like to ask, was this moment discussed before or not? From what I have seen, the only potential mitigating factor about Deathwing which was discussed in the past was whether or not he has moral agency issues due to his insanity.
Whatever care he had for his children is long gone by his later appearances as he has his own eggs experimented on to create the Twilight Dragonflight. The new Dragonflight expansion even goes out of its way to show Deathwing was a monster even when he was still sane as he was experimenting on black dragons back in his Neltharion days in his labs in Abberus.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Not the Eye
Vile sounds like cut.
Lean keep on Deathwing.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Aug 5th 2023 at 12:08:44 PM
RIP Toriyama
Sad cut to Vile but really dig the rewrites Star! Also good to Deathwing myself
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Bye
Cut Vile
Keep Deathwings
I'm willing to chock this up to Depending on the Writer here myself. Deathwing is consistently portrayed as caring nothing for his own offspring whom he uses, abuses, tries to murder, corrupt, experiment on, etc.
Cut Lord Vile.
Cut Vile, keep Deathwing (some CM's have such Obviously Evil names)
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Lies and Violence!
Keep Deathwing.
Because Vile is the page quote, I have these two from Serpine as possible replacements.
I prefer the first quote
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Cut Vile
Keep Deathwing
Edited by G-Editor on Aug 5th 2023 at 3:39:25 PM
The wifi here sucks
Keep Deathwing, Cut Vile, I also like the first quote
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cut Vile.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Ultimate Lifeform
Not another "One line of text gives the slightest redeeming quality"! Deeply irritated cut for Vile.
Keep Deathwing. Whatever care he shows for his spawn in Beyond the Dark Portal is entirely circumstantial given all of his other actions, resulting in it being a case of Pragmatic Villainy IMO.
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Goku Black
Cut Vile.
Keep deathwing
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I just had one of those myself, I was getting ready to propose Volka from The Divine Cities and I was double checking some stuff in the book when his brother specifically says that Volka loved their father. Previously I saw Volka's relationship with his father purely out of a sense of respect since they were both traditionalist reactionaries but that one line took him out.
The Ultimate Lifeform
Blegh. There's something really slimy about characters that by all accounts should be C Ms having one singular person they care about, especially when the potential candidate is a far right reactionary, but that's neither here nor there.
While other people had talked about maybe proposing Sombron in the past, Wallace was the only one who actually did a full proposal and someone adding a CM tag to a video clearly didn't know or care about the actual proposal process so putting him on the Resolved Items list wouldn't really effect that
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her