Unclear Description (alt titles crowner 17 July 2021): Bubbly Clouds

The Problem:

The trope is currently listed in Tropes Needing TRS per the following reason: "Many examples don't have the Solid Clouds required for the trope. This constraint may be unnecessary." Not only is the constraint unnecessary, but it was actually added without consult in the Trope Improvement Description Drive thread. It's especially puzzling since BC was created in 2007 and has far more wicks than Solid Clouds, which was created in 2013.

My Proposal:

My proposal to help this trope article is to, rather than limit its scope to video game levels that have Solid Clouds, to broaden it to include other archetypes and stereotypes that are common cloudy stages in video games. To name a few examples:

• A cloudy level where the cloud acts as fog that makes visibility more difficult. There are levels in the New Super Mario Bros. series that exhibit this.
• A sky level with eolic hazards, like in Gusty Glade.
• A sky level where the player wouldn't only stand on solid clouds but also on other elements that are unrealistic but acceptable in fiction, like overgrown branstalks or floating objects. The last secret level in Donkey Kong Country Returns exhibits this, as would many of the sky obstacle courses in Super Mario Sunshine (what would differentiate these from Floating Continent is that we're not talking about a full city or kingdom, but merely a stock obstacle course).
• A cloudy level where some of the clouds are dark and drop lighning bolts, like one of the tracks in Mario Kart 8.

A rename wouldn't be necessary, either. As a precedent, Slippy-Slidey Ice World isn't limited to snowy stages with Frictionless Ice, as there are other elements characteristic to them like dense snow terrain, loss of health or stamina due to swimming in cold water, and Snowlems.

Thoughts?

I'm fine with removing that restriction, especially when it was unilaterally added. All it does is make the trope too rigid.

I'd be fine if it were removed as well. Doesn't seem needed.

Remove the restriction.

Remove the restriction

Remove the restriction.

Remove the restriction.

What about the following revision? It's not too different from the current, as it simply expands upon the types of hazards that can be found besides solid clouds:

A video game area that takes place in the sky. The characters may be seeking out a landmass or building in the sky, but they also might just be wandering through a huge field of unusual platforms like Solid Clouds, overgrown beanstalks or comically oversized floating objects. Naturally, not falling to one's death is the biggest challenge of such an area, not only because almost the entire bottom acts as a bottomless pit, but also because of the numerous flying enemies and the boss often being a Cumulonemesis, a large bird or a warlike airship. Other hazards, like mist that may hinder sight, lightning bolts from stormy clouds and wind currents that may mess with the jumps' timing, may be present as well.

Fluffy Cloud Heaven is often portrayed this way in video games. It's interesting to mention that already the first sidescrolling platformer — Jump Bug, released in 1981 — contained solid clouds.

Sister Trope of Levels Take Flight. Super-Trope to Solid Clouds and Bonus Level of Heaven. May overlap with Big Storm Episode if the level takes place in stormy clouds. The Bonus Stage equivalent

One last thing: With the restriction removed, I'll be more than willing to add context to the examples that have been commented-out for not having solid clouds mentioned in their referenced works.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Jul 9th 2021 at 5:09:49 AM

I gotta say, Bubbly Clouds doesn't really evoke "video game level in the sky" much at all from the name.

That is a good point maybe a rename is in order as well.

IDK, not every single video game level trope needs to have a level-like name to be clear and used properly. Doesn't seem like Art Course and Underthe Sea, for instance, have caused problems for this reason.

Otherwise, I think that revision sounds good, maybe Bonus Level of Heaven should be mentioned somewhere, though that trope in particular should definitely go through trs someday.

Edited by Piterpicher on Jul 9th 2021 at 10:57:37 AM

Edited the post to make mention of that page.

As for a rename, I can't think of a good substitute. Maybe Sky Stage if the only option is a very generic name.

If this trope has to be renamed, I would prefer something like Bubbly Cloud Level... Honestly, though, I don't think this really needs to be renamed.

Me neither, but if the troperbase deems it necessary, I will comply to help the process. If the rule against new Trope Namers wasn't around, or at least was a little more lenient, I would propose Cloudtop Cruise, as the name communicates both the setting (a cloudy sky in a video game) and the action of exploring it. You wouldn't need to know it's the name of a Mario Kart racetrack to understand it.

However, with 295 wicks and 1106 inbounds, I'm not sure if renaming it would be an easy task.

For now at least, it's good to know that there's a sizeable support for a less restrictive description.

EDIT: Am I allowed to create a sandbox where the updated description is and the commented-out examples are given more context with the new scope in mind?

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Jul 9th 2021 at 8:05:17 AM

295 wicks is nothing compared to the 15K we have with Not So Different, and that one got renamed. I think if anything this would be one of the easiest renames ever.

Good point. It was mostly because of the inbounds that I wasn't sure on the matter. Like I said, if the majority agrees to rename, then I'll be glad to help with the process. In such case, we would have to wait until the conclusion of that in order to apply the proposed revision to the description, correct?

Inbounds unless its something crazy high aren't that big of a problem for tropes as a redirect is always left.

Perhaps rename it Nimbus Land or Skyworld (the latter being a Kid Icarus reference).

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 9th 2021 at 10:13:05 AM

I agree with removing the unilaterally added Solid Clouds requirement. Renaming might help, but I don't have a strong opinion on any of the suggestions.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 10th 2021 at 4:13:36 AM

for removing the Solid Clouds restriction. As of the name, I think a current one is fine, but if it were to change, I give my to either Nimbus Land or Skyworld.

to Skyworld. It's clearer IMO than Nimbus Land.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jul 10th 2021 at 8:15:42 AM

Skyzone has a bit more alliteration to it, but either's fine.

Edited by Malady on Jul 10th 2021 at 5:20:56 AM

Supporting Skyworld as well.

Since I haven't received an answer on the sandbox thing yet, I will put a version of the current page with the revised description (and context added to as many commented-out examples as possible) in a sandbox derived from my own handle's page. It can be cutlisted after it has served its purpose. I'll start immediately after finishing this post.

EDIT: Here it is! It includes the revised description and, with it in mind, many of the previously commented-out examples with added context. There are still commented-out examples, so I'll continue researching their works to bring context to them. By the way, is there a way to request a crowner for the new name? Since there are several options on the table, it'll be necessary to put them in a crowner in order to elect the most appropiate one. "Bubbly Clouds" would be an option in case there are people supporting the current name.

EDIT 2: Almost all examples minus one have context now! The outliers were Dalaam from Earthbound (which is actually Death Mountain), Flying Fortress from Final Fantasy (fits better under Ominous Floating Castle, where it's been included since long ago) and Angel Island from Sonic Advance (as it doesn't have any of the traits of this trope, aside from being the top of a fortress), so they've been remomed from the sandbox. The only example that remains commented-out is from Snailiad, because I've had a very difficult time finding information from the game and video footage. Otherwise, the sandbox provides a very improved version of the article, with the updated description of the trope and nearly all ZCE entries given context with the scope of said description in mind.

We're in the second day of the thread, and tomorrow will mark the third. What would it take from that point in time to call for the change in the current description (in favor of the revised text available in the sandbox), considering the unanimous support? Would it be necessary to wrap up the discussion on the page's name first?

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Jul 10th 2021 at 6:08:02 AM

To clarify, Nimbus Land is a reference to Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars and Skyworld is a reference to Kid Icarus.

I personally prefer Skyworld as it captures the idea of a setting in the sky as inhabited and visited by mortals (as opposed to immortal souls inhabiting Fluffy Cloud Heaven that skeptical mortals cannot visit) without necessitating Solid Clouds, though Skyworld itself (from Kid Icarus) does have Solid Clouds.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 10th 2021 at 10:01:30 AM

If it helps, I knew about the origin of those names.